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Artashes

Project FRAM

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Why would including deed names be a bad idea anyways?

Like would a army of greifers appear out of the mist to dash there?

If the player holding the deed havent given his/her ok to post the name it should NOT be om ANY map (not even the area around the map should be on it unless given a ok). They probably dont want to be on a map for a reason, you need to respect that!

Why? Because you said so? I cant find anything about it in the rules though.

I'm free to explore the server, thats what I'm paying for. What right do you have to take that away just because you dont want your area mapped? Deed it and build fence around it.

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What would happen if i were to spend ages going around freedom, mapping everything i saw and putting deeds and all on the map, then released it?

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What would happen if i were to spend ages going around freedom, mapping everything i saw and putting deeds and all on the map, then released it?

We would have a map that may or may not suck, but at least it would be more complete than any project so far.

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In the case of Daasd's deed and AoC i think the hole in the map is the best option to make everyone happy, daash isnt exposed and if you fill the hole in black and put in the legend "black=private property" then everything will be fine.  Plus don't know bout other people but if i can im getting permission from all deed holders to map their area, not doing so is just disrespectful

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The big question is why it so important for some people to have a map of filled, colonized, and developed land...some people want a little bit of privacy and you should learn to respect that. You don't need to know where every token of every homestead in every nook and cranny of the server is. If these players were in the thick of a densely populated area, where their presence actually affected others deed placement or knowing the terrain was vital...I could see your point. But recluses don't plop deeds on major highways - they build on remote mountain tops, small islands etc.

Just accept that there will be an island called "BoS Island" on the map, and that a number of cliff-hanging or valley nestled villages and homesteads won't be on the map at all.

It is called courtesy. Respect it.

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It is called courtesy.

If we were to black out all the deeds, freedom might look like this.

freedomblankedout.png

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I'll give you an extra tidbit of information. The image I posted was created long before I actually posted it.

we allready knew that, i found enough deeds to identify my area, and a deed that i had planted a long while before was not on it, giving me a timeframe of when the map you made was created. =P

there are enough deeds from when your map was made to now that can be used as a sort of 'cross check' to make sure the outline of the map is accurate anyhow. using your map for instance its obvious that the tenakill deeds (and as a result the entire west coast) is not far enough west on the CMP

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I'll give you an extra tidbit of information. The image I posted was created long before I actually posted it.

we allready knew that, i found enough deeds to identify my area, and a deed that i had planted a long while before was not on it, giving me a timeframe of when the map you made was created. =P

there are enough deeds from when your map was made to now that can be used as a sort of 'cross check' to make sure the outline of the map is accurate anyhow. using your map for instance its obvious that the tenakill deeds (and as a result the entire west coast) is not far enough west on the CMP

I used the date it was published (22/10) simply as I didn't have better info on it. I could have counted the number of deeds and compared it to the server settlements graph, if I'd been more thorough.  :D

Actually, I could publish the overlay, so that everyone can see it, but it's clear that the CMP thinks there's more ocean around the Independence island than there actually is - it extends further in pretty much every direction than the CMP suggests.

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The only thing mappers don't map, are area's they cannot reach or aren't worth the time for detail.

So either:

A: Make you AoC fenced (which will lead to an anonymous hole in the map, privacy still maintained.)

B: Forest the crap out of your area and don't make it look special, people will just fill it in as forest (which will lead to randoms trying to plant nearby and deforesting your place)

Either way, privacy can lead to problems.

Don't really see why people object to being on the map, we all know where you live, whether you're on a map or not.

Seriously Daash, you think people don't know where you are on BoS Island? Please.

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What might work out pretty well is mapping the area around your deed yourself and add public roads only. People coming to the area can still navigate but the details are not present and the mappers wont rush to the area as it appears already mapped. Oh, and the map maintainer should ofcourse know that this area is protected and not do updates

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Daash, you can't win against these trolls, so you need to quit posting before you actually say something you will regret. They are arguing, not to prove a point, but to argue. They have upset a veteran member of the community and will push it as far as they can.

Trolls, you are are causing a problem for a project you want to participate in by generating conflict at its earliest stages. There is no action imaginable that you could take that would endanger the entire project more than to make it unpopular or resented. You are attacking one deed owner over anal rules details and lofty principles when you have yet to map the rest of the server.

Aratashes, Spellcast, et al ; I wish you luck in your endeavor, but unless you can get some etiquette into some of your supporter's and mapper's heads I suspect you will meet more opposition than you might expect. But I wish you well none the less.

I'd like to reiterate everything Othob Rithol has said.

I *do* want people to contribute to the project, as it can't be done without your efforts, but I really *don't* want, either directly or indirectly, to put peoples backs up while doing it.

So, here are my personal guidelines for how I intend to map. I can't and don't intend to try to force these on anyone contributing, but I hope that those who do want to contribute will use a reasonable level of consideration, and maybe adopt this as their approach also.

For deed-holders who wish to have privacy, I hope you will find your options for maintaining your privacy here satisfactory.

As coordinator:

1. While I would like the map to be as complete and accurate as possible, I refuse to put downright misleading information on the map (such as marking an area as forest when I'm aware of the existence of a settlement in it), so I'll provide four levels of 'opt-out' for deed holders:

    a. Not having the deed name on the map - deed will be represented as an "unknown settlement" type, with AoC of a s5 HS, and no name. Terrain (with buildings) will be mapped.

    b. Not having the deed on the map - no deed will be shown at all, terrain (with buildings) will be mapped.

    c. Not having the deed area mapped - all of this area will be left blacked out.

    d. Not having the deed area or AoC mapped - all of this area will be left blacked out.

2. I won't be actively seeking out permission from deed holders before mapping an area, because it's a lot easier to run with an opt-out than opt-in approach, but I will remove from the published maps any information where the deed holder has requested a level of privacy in accordance with the above. I'll also not include information if a deed holder has pre-emptively asked me not to. But please PM me to request it, rather than announce it in this thread, to try and avoid the trolling / derailment that has ensued so far.

As mapper:

1. I will not indulge in any breaking and entering even where possible. i.e. fenced off-deed areas, I won't break into anything in order to map it. For all fenced-off areas where a deed holder hasn't requested one of the privacy options above (or even if they have, but it's outside AoC), I will however attempt to map it by finding a vantage point to do so at a distance, if I can.

2. Special rule for islands: If all the deed holders of an island request the highest level of privacy, I will not map the island at all, beyond an outline. This should (I think) cover BoS island, and possibly some others.

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A pixelmap take out all the fun of exploring and i dont think the game need that taken out of the game.

You like to explore, while other players don't. I can respect that.

What I can not respect, however, is that you keep going on about how a map would ruin the game for you, which it won't because nobody will ever force you to take a look at the map, and how you don't want anyone to have a map.

You don't have to look at the map if you don't want to, so what are you complaining about?

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I see alot of people saying things like "I like your map"  I havn't seen any links to a graphic rendering... am I missing something? :D

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Multiple posts removed at OP's request.  Some were flames, some were quoting flames, and others did not seem to stand on their own without the background of the flame war.

If you had some truly trenchant observation in this thread, that was unfortunately lost in the cleanup, I do apologize.

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How files and data for this project will be organized? How can players contribute their data?

I suggest that project manager make project at GitHub (http://www.github.com/) and use it to manage and coordinate all contributions.

When devs provide exact coordinates of deed tokens this would form decent base for very accurate map. As said in other thread if players map area around their deed, say 100x100 tiles, it can be stitched together rather easily. Roads can be mapped relatively to deed tokens and they would overlap when data are correct.

Base on these two prerequisites, map can be stitched together and generated programaticaly from player supplied data, be it png/bmp images or predefined textual format.

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Example textual format, not proposal:

ggggggggggRgggggggggg
gHHHggggggRgggggggggg
gHHHggggggRgggggggggg
gHHHHHHgggRgggggggggg
gHHHHHHRRRRggFFFFFFFg
gHHHHHHgggRggFFFFFFFg
gHHHggggggRRHFFFFFFFg
gHHHggggggRggFFFFFFFg
ggggggggggRggFFFFFFFg
ggggggggggRgggggggggg
RRRRRRRRRRTRRRRRRRRRR
ggggggggggRgggggggggg
ggggggggggRgggggggggg
ggggggggggRgggggggggg
ggggggggggRgggggggggg
ggggggggggRgggggggggg
ggggggggggRgggggggggg
ggggggggggRgggggggggg
ggggggggggRgggggggggg
ggggggggggRgggggggggg
ggggggggggRgggggggggg

it show 21x21 area with 2 houses, 1 farm field, token, roads going from token to north, west, south, east and lots of grass. Not perfect but you got my point.

g - grass

R - road, any type

H - house, any type

F - farm field

T - deed token

From this all sorts of layers can be build.

However it doesn't hold info about borders, elevation and such.

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I'd like to reiterate everything Othob Rithol has said.

I *do* want people to contribute to the project, as it can't be done without your efforts, but I really *don't* want, either directly or indirectly, to put peoples backs up while doing it.

So, here are my personal guidelines for how I intend to map. I can't and don't intend to try to force these on anyone contributing, but I hope that those who do want to contribute will use a reasonable level of consideration, and maybe adopt this as their approach also.

For deed-holders who wish to have privacy, I hope you will find your options for maintaining your privacy here satisfactory.

As coordinator:

1. While I would like the map to be as complete and accurate as possible, I refuse to put downright misleading information on the map (such as marking an area as forest when I'm aware of the existence of a settlement in it), so I'll provide four levels of 'opt-out' for deed holders:

    a. Not having the deed name on the map - deed will be represented as an "unknown settlement" type, with AoC of a s5 HS, and no name. Terrain (with buildings) will be mapped.

    b. Not having the deed on the map - no deed will be shown at all, terrain (with buildings) will be mapped.

    c. Not having the deed area mapped - all of this area will be left blacked out.

    d. Not having the deed area or AoC mapped - all of this area will be left blacked out.

2. I won't be actively seeking out permission from deed holders before mapping an area, because it's a lot easier to run with an opt-out than opt-in approach, but I will remove from the published maps any information where the deed holder has requested a level of privacy in accordance with the above. I'll also not include information if a deed holder has pre-emptively asked me not to. But please PM me to request it, rather than announce it in this thread, to try and avoid the trolling / derailment that has ensued so far.

As mapper:

1. I will not indulge in any breaking and entering even where possible. i.e. fenced off-deed areas, I won't break into anything in order to map it. For all fenced-off areas where a deed holder hasn't requested one of the privacy options above (or even if they have, but it's outside AoC), I will however attempt to map it by finding a vantage point to do so at a distance, if I can.

2. Special rule for islands: If all the deed holders of an island request the highest level of privacy, I will not map the island at all, beyond an outline. This should (I think) cover BoS island, and possibly some others.

Daash, and others taken into account, I would not expect Artashes to violate personal preference and his comments above make it clear that that is so.

At the same time, this is a special project intendeded to help us all travel so lets contribute as we can and help the guy make travelling around our server a less difficult and painful business ;)

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Deed 5hs ZooZeeZaw, owner: Joedobo

I will not lower my no-deed range. The entire AOC is walled with locked gates. No one will be allowed access.

The road in this is the RC-Sam road.

W = tower. Also, a mailbox is in it but it needs magic.

27 DEC 2009 map data.


sssssssssssssssssssssss
sFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFs
sFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFs
sFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFs
sFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFs
sFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFs
sFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFs
sFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFs
sFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFs
sFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFs
sFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFs
sFFFFFFFFFHRHFFFFFFFFFs
sFFFFFFFFFHTHFFFFFFFFFs
sFFFFFFFFFHHHFFFFFFFFFs
sFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFs
sFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFs
sFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFs
sFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFs
sFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFs
sFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFs
sFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFs
sFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFs
sFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFs
sFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFs
ssFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFs
sssFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFs
RsssFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFs
RRsssFFFFFFWFFFFFFFFFFs
RRRsssFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFs
sRRRsssFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFs
ssRRRsssFFFFFFFFFFFFFFs
sssRRRsssFFFFFFFFssssss
gsssRRRsssFFFFFFFsggggg
ggsssRRRsssFFFFFFsggggg
gggsssRRRsssFFFFFsggggg
ggggsssRRRsssFFFFsggggg
gggggsssRRRsssFFFsggggg
ggggggsssRRRsssFFsggggg
gggggggsssRRRsssFsggggg
ggggggggsssRRRssssggggg
gggggggggsssRRRsssggggg
ggggggggggsssRRRsssgggg
gggggggggggsssRRRsssggg
ggggggggggggsssRRRsssgg
ggggggggggggggsssRRRsss

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Could we please get a map legend and the RGB colors for the various labels. I have paint shop pro and can create layers similar to your OP instruction. I don't know how to locate my deed tho.

I don't know how to make a .pspimage available for others. Unless otherwise instructed should we post PNG files?

What do we think of those text-like maps? Without a program to convert them to picture files will they be that useful?

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I don't know how to locate my deed tho.

Start with your deed at the center of your map, and work around it, don't worry about where other maps are in relation to yours, they can be fixed and joined together later with simple editing.

I don't know how to make a .pspimage available for others. Unless otherwise instructed should we post PNG files?

PNG is probably the best, then just upload to an image host.

What do we think of those text-like maps? Without a program to convert them to picture files will they be that useful?

Just use any paint program, and for each letter, assign a colour based on your own (or the P FRAMs) tile key, then just colour in each pixel, comparing it to your textmap so it's the same.

It's nice to see you getting into it ;)

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The map of Birds Hill area with the harbor Port Eagle. Both are size 10 settlements and the yellow dot is the token.

Black dots is mine entrances.

BirdsHillArea.png

The dotted area just south of Port Eagle (our pyramid project) and EstSuothEast of Birds Hill (planed HS5) is "filling areas" where we haven't finished dumping dirt thus the coastline is still undecided exact placement.

I hope this is the info the FRAM project need from me. Otherwise feel free to PM me for further information.

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