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Valrei International. Catching up!

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1 hour ago, Platyna said:

 

It is not 5 times a day, after 5 meditations spaced by 30 minutes you can meditate every 3h. And yes I know I can carry a rug, but so what? I still have to run back and forth, I know about QL, rarity, timers, etc. etc. etc. I know everything I couldn't find or ask, and it doesn't make it any nicer, and it is not any less dead skill, I am 55 of meditation, and honestly I stopped doing the journal because of it. I am everyday getting my meditation affinity on and then when it I think "meh, I am not stopping what I do now and then sit 10 minutes and think what I was up to"). Nah, once i finally get that L70, I am not touching it again, it is a dark side of the Wurm skilling. But well this is my opinion, my assumptions can be easily verified by the dev team, and we kinda went far off-topic...


you don't really need to do the 3 hour ticks to grind efficiently. i mean, it helps speed it up a lot if you nolife it but you don't need to do it

it's funny that you call it the dark side of wurm skilling though, while simultaneously thinking mining is hard to grind. you ever touch weaponsmithing? or a creation-based skill like locksmithing? meditation is far, far from a dead or worthless skill

 

 

18 minutes ago, Platyna said:

I am not the only one who doesn't like meditating in its current shape. The best data about it can be found only directly in the player database. 

and i'm one of those people who also hates meditation in its current state and think it should be one of the next few skills reworked

doesn't mean you're right

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I never said mining is hard to grind, and I never said meditation is a worthless skill. 

 

2 minutes ago, RainRain said:

doesn't mean you're right

 

It doesn't also mean that I am wrong. 

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5 hours ago, Madnath said:

[nuking veins]

That's the baby method of using lava. Real ones know how valuable lava tiles can be for the day to day beyond crap like vein nuking.

I agree to a lot you wrote, but that is utter nonsense and only displays an out of date "real one vet" perspective of mining, given you ever did serious mining, especially large underground excavations like tunnels and canals.

 

I completed a large tunnel and underground highway project within a few months, together with exactly one other permanent participant (Aske) on Xanadu. It would not have been possible at all without extensive use of erupt/freeze, to the extent that I did it together with my Fo priestess ( :) ) who is PoP 8 so far (instant erupt/freeze with subsequent mining out).

 

Ok you may call that "bah, baby method", but the tough guys who never use such "baby stuff", frequently end up with half done canals with tens of resource veins in the way.

 

Of course, PoP potential goes far beyond that ability, and I am using what I got so far, and love it. And lava indeed has several uses beyond nuking veins, be it to reducing item quality, damage for repair skill, or correcting rock slopes where concrete meets its limits (though those should be addressed as well).

 

That said, I generally agree. Meditation is truly powerful, and the grind, albeit not easy and sometimes damn frustrating, is not really bad as it gives the determined casual similar chances as frantic achievers (ok like me). I can say that I reached level 12 in less than 2 years, and rarely exhausted my meditation chances over day (admittedly, most times did one medi on login and forgot most of the rest). 

Edited by Ekcin
typo
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4 minutes ago, Ekcin said:

I agree to a lot you wrote, but that is utter nonsense and only displays an out of date "real one vet" perspective of mining, given you ever did serious mining, especially large underground excavations like tunnels and canals.

 

I completed a large tunnel and underground highway project within a few months, together with exactly one other permanent participant (Aske) on Xanadu. It would not have been possible at all without extensive use of erupt/freeze, to the extent that I did it together with my Fo priestess ( :) ) who is PoP 8 so far (instant erupt/freeze with subsequent mining out).

 

Ok you may call that "bah, baby method", but the tough guys who never use such "baby stuff", frequently end up with half done canals with tens of resource veins in the way.

 

Of course, PoP potential goes far beyond that ability, and I am using what I got so far, and love it. And lava indeed has several uses beyond nuking veins, be it to reducing item quality, damage for repair skill, or correcting rock slopes where concrete meets its limits (though those should be addressed as well).

 

That said, I generally agree. Meditation is truly powerful, and the grind, albeit not easy and sometimes damn frustrating, is not really bad as it gives the determined casual similar chances as frantic achievers (ok like me). I can say that I reached level 12 in less than 2 years, and rarely exhausted my meditation chances over day (admittedly, most times did one medi on login and forgot most of the rest). 

It's sorta tongue in cheek. It is obviously incredibly useful for large projects, but it's not the singular use thing for veins a lot of people think it is. It's invaluable for stuff like repair and butchering, handy for trashing crappy items that can't be trash heaped and stuff too.

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29 minutes ago, Ekcin said:

I agree to a lot you wrote, but that is utter nonsense and only displays an out of date "real one vet" perspective of mining, given you ever did serious mining, especially large underground excavations like tunnels and canals.

 

I completed a large tunnel and underground highway project within a few months, together with exactly one other permanent participant (Aske) on Xanadu. It would not have been possible at all without extensive use of erupt/freeze, to the extent that I did it together with my Fo priestess ( :) ) who is PoP 8 so far (instant erupt/freeze with subsequent mining out).

 

Ok you may call that "bah, baby method", but the tough guys who never use such "baby stuff", frequently end up with half done canals with tens of resource veins in the way.

 

Of course, PoP potential goes far beyond that ability, and I am using what I got so far, and love it. And lava indeed has several uses beyond nuking veins, be it to reducing item quality, or correcting rock slopes where concrete meets its limits (though those should be addressed as well).

 

That said, I generally agree. Meditation is truly powerful, and the grind, albeit not easy and sometimes damn frustrating, is not really bad as it gives the determined casual similar chances as frantic achievers (ok like me). I can say that I reached level 12 in less than 2 years, and rarely exhausted my meditation chances over day (admittedly, most times did one medi on login and forgot most of the rest). 



my opinion is that meditation is extremely poorly balanced; even in pvp, some paths are extremely bad in comparison to others (like Insanity's only redeeming feature is sotg lol), almost all of them are worthless in pve servers (which is why PoK is usually the only path anyone ever picks in pve servers), and the RNG nature of ticks is the worst thing in the world. I can get behind needing to wait 10 minutes for a chance at a tick. I can get behind a limited amount of ticks each day. I can't get behind it being a limited about of CHANCES for a tick each day.

30m timers between each tick ATTEMPT and only getting 5 ATTEMPTs (yes yes 3 hours whatever, nobody's gonna do that) each day is just silly. It should be a maximum of say, 10 ticks gained each day, with a 10 minute timer between each tick attempt. Even if you dont get your ticks, you can just keep trying for a new one every 10 minutes or so to get the next. Bad RNG streaks already feel bad for skills even if they average out to be fine and that's just for regular grinding - when that bad rng streak means literally spending multiple days without seeing a tick, it's just depressing.

also, the paths need to be more universally useful and balanced. I don't think any of the paths should have flat % stat stuff, a skill bonus gain is silly for PoK especially since the rest of the path is useless (why in god's name does get info have a cooldown? and why is half the information irrelevant). it just needs an overall overhaul to become something more interesting and well-balanced rather than a mandatory skill to grind for PoK for anyone who cares about skilling in this game to any serious extent.

Edited by RainRain
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I think we derail a bit with the meditation discussion now. @RetrogradeI think its great that we get a info about a important change around a week erlyer, so we can raise concerns and thoughts about it and in spacial that we get some basic directions (not like just "we make prayer grind a bit easier" but some solid information even without exact numbers) for this change.

Will the communication be keep at this level with a bit more frequency in it? The current mix of silence for nerly month and out of nowhere updates or sparse pre information were no one really can discuss if the changes are good or bad until they happen, dosen´t feel good.

How about monthly/quarterly updates? Not for the game but on the information side of things. With content like this:

Mayor feature the dev team is currently working on (the Combat update atm)

Some minor tweeks that are in the making/balance phase (this would be something like the prayer or imbued changes just maybe not to late)

Open discussion points. (priest gameplay and restriction is something that is always in the discussion for this I suppose, but you find enough forum threads that talk about minor balance points that feel off for them)

And of curse fun stuff the community have done or is planing to do like the Regattas or large scale projects that are noteworthy from the official side.

Stuff like this on a more schedule bases, so we stop speculation about things and the conspiracy that resources and time are not allocated for the game may stop in the community would be great.

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19 minutes ago, RainRain said:

almost all of them are worthless in pve servers (which is why PoK is usually the only path anyone ever picks in pve servers)

people only pick pok because they're never had the pleasure of playing on a power character, it makes the game much more enjoyable when you can queue up 10 actions and only use 1% stamina. honestly it's the most powerful path for pve and people just don't know about it since trying out new meditation paths is like 3 months to swap then 3 months to swap back if you don't like it, or like 120s/60e in premium each swap. a slight bonus to skillgain isn't much in the long run when there's plenty of skillgain bonuses in the game and the majority of things are ql curved, most skills don't get good benefits for grinding super high and the quicker timers from higher skill aren't used very well when the penalty to timer length is super curved to the point where 90% stamina is like 60% longer timers than 100% stamina. Not to mention that power lets you grind with 80+ dmg wounds on practically everything for triple length timers which makes it superior for semi-afk grinding. pok is super overrated in my opinion, it's basically no tangible benefit to gameplay.

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1 of the reasons for pok is death and no skill loss.. re-grinding 7 skill losses is a b.... +FS, you can't even grind to 99fs to get the protection.. and at that point.. 1 death costs hours/day(s) to get just the fs back

get info doesnt exist.. pok is trash now

(we lose fs anyway, but at least pok saves some of the other annoyance to regrind, death in wurm is bull..)

 

as for stamina scaling.. depends how much shenanigans you can pull from it.. at the end of the day fatigue still limits you to do the same.. and since affinities became content on pve.. it's ok to not scale hyper long actions, in the end it's still time spent = skill gained.. unless the rounding is some math joke and messes up what people get when it comes to skillgains

Edited by Finnn

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^^^^ what Ob says.  I never played a PoP character before acquiring one and I was simply blown away.  Mining a rock wall from start to finish, without resting once.  Climbing mountains, imping... you need to get an armor set imped to 90 and don't want to waste a day doing it? PoP.  I immediately converted my PoK crafter alt to PoP.  I am beyond happy with the results.  The amount of work I can do now is just silly.  Yes, the skill gains sacrifice is there, but it just isn't that hard to raise a skill, with just a few exceptions.

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1 hour ago, Radircs said:

I think we derail a bit with the meditation discussion now. @RetrogradeI think its great that we get a info about a important change around a week erlyer, so we can raise concerns and thoughts about it and in spacial that we get some basic directions (not like just "we make prayer grind a bit easier" but some solid information even without exact numbers) for this change.

Will the communication be keep at this level with a bit more frequency in it? The current mix of silence for nerly month and out of nowhere updates or sparse pre information were no one really can discuss if the changes are good or bad until they happen, dosen´t feel good.

How about monthly/quarterly updates? Not for the game but on the information side of things. With content like this:

Mayor feature the dev team is currently working on (the Combat update atm)

Some minor tweeks that are in the making/balance phase (this would be something like the prayer or imbued changes just maybe not to late)

Open discussion points. (priest gameplay and restriction is something that is always in the discussion for this I suppose, but you find enough forum threads that talk about minor balance points that feel off for them)

And of curse fun stuff the community have done or is planing to do like the Regattas or large scale projects that are noteworthy from the official side.

Stuff like this on a more schedule bases, so we stop speculation about things and the conspiracy that resources and time are not allocated for the game may stop in the community would be great.

You do realize at the beginning of the year they announced they are only doing 1 update a month and could only be bug fixes. That's a lot of time for them to talk to the playerbase which they refuse to do. They knew they were going to change prayer probably at the beginning of the year and yet said nothing letting people waste their time on a skill they were planning to buff. Should I not weaponsmith? Plan on making that easier? Should I not meditate? Are we getting a rework on that soon? What about farming? It's pretty much hasn't changed since the release of gold. People complain when they think something is to hard. Like Joemog suggested make the end reward worth something. Hell just making it so you can get gems at 1 faith would have helped alot without making the grind less. Handing out people cake on a platter doesn't help the game.

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23 minutes ago, Atndy said:

They knew they were going to change prayer probably at the beginning of the year and yet said nothing letting people waste their time on a skill they were planning to buff

he did say it 3 weeks ago

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1 hour ago, Oblivionnreaver said:

he did say it 3 weeks ago

Touché.

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8 hours ago, Platyna said:

 

I tease the staff to finally check it. 😉 Top10 of most active players would be interesting. 

 

 

sometimes "most active" means "producing biggest amount of spam" :D

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7 hours ago, Atndy said:

Making the game easier doesn't make everyone happier. Wurm is a grinding game. It's a game about watching numbers go up. 70 prayer is a hard goal that you set your eyes on. 70 meditation is a long term goal. How fun would the game be if everyone was just given 100 in every skill and told to go play. We'd be bored within a month if not hours. These hard grinds need to be in the game.

 

i agree, did already meditation to 90, and will probably some day go higher in current way, it really not need to be easier, how high your skill is a way to measure your patience. already too many things was "easiered".

 

 

btw, what's the point of having after couple weeks/months the same on what people worked 10-15 years?
one wise man said: "if WURM would be easy, i wouldn't play it" :)

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dunno if i'd call that a wise man

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I expected a lot of changes making things easier and more logic... after the rmt drop.. turns out somebody lost the pelt and we're not getting that well polished old content, wogic-free and all that..

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On 1/22/2021 at 10:09 AM, Joemog said:

Okay so should we just dismiss any discussion ever based on that?

of course not :) there is a big different on discussing a change and just complaining about it :) 

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Just now, denully said:

of course not :) there is a big different on discussing a change and just complaining about it :) 

What the difference? I've explained why I don't like it and suggested better course of aciton.

Whining is when it's disagreeing with your point of view?

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17 hours ago, Oblivionnreaver said:

he did say it 3 weeks ago


While it was said inside of a suggestions thread, this is something that could have gone into an official update post at the same time. Not everyone reads the entire thread of every suggestion just to try to figure out what things the devs are working on.

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17 hours ago, kgorski said:

 

i agree, did already meditation to 90, and will probably some day go higher in current way, it really not need to be easier, how high your skill is a way to measure your patience. already too many things was "easiered".

 

 

btw, what's the point of having after couple weeks/months the same on what people worked 10-15 years?
one wise man said: "if WURM would be easy, i wouldn't play it" :)

Defiance is different then chaos. I put off body stat grinding to grind prayer on my main which puts me 10 body stats behind everyone else :S

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2 hours ago, Atndy said:

Defiance is different then chaos. I put off body stat grinding to grind prayer on my main which puts me 10 body stats behind everyone else :S

That is Wurm. I put off my woodcutting grinding to grind mining so my woodcutting is 17.433576 skill levels behind my mining.

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That helm makes me think of Tim the Enchanter.

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@Retrograde

Any plans to obliterate value of others skills?

Might almost as well play WU if the official servers aren't going to be persistent and respectful of players time investments.

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if the only value in the skill you grind is the time you invest into it you probably shouldn't grind the skill

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