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Retrograde

Valrei International. Catching up!

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All  this whining about the praying update and had none of you whiners actually noticed that the one proposing this is playing a priest, most likely has benediction and has been proposing countless of improvements to Wurm for over the years?
So perhaps that player actually knew what he was talking about and decided it could be done better. Which eventually the Dev's decided to do.

 

I do sometimes wonder if we have players here who's only goal is to get up to top of having the most skills list; or they are actually enjoying this game.

Looking at some comments here, I think there are at least two people replying who are aiming for just that and when things are made easier, think they got the right to complain about it.

 

IMHO Wurm Online is a game you should enjoy and while for some that enjoyment comes from grinding one skill after another, for others grinding skills is something they don't like at all.

For the dev's this means they always have to find a middle  ground; making it impossible to please all kinds of players in this game. In the past there have been tweaks to this game I didn't like at all; yet I'm still playing it. The reason: I'm enjoying more aspects of this game as just getting skills for doing something.

if for some reason the way of gaining skill is tweaked and it would affect my skill - i.e. I've got my WS around 55 with much effort - I may not like it, but I won't complain about it, as in the end the new method may actually benefit this game and all players.

Perhaps that's something those whining about the current - and some past - changes should keep in mind. If it benefits the game, it will benefit the players as well. And when the community is happy, it'll benefit the game again.

 

 

As for the mentioned upcoming changes; I'm really looking forward for the new combat system.

 

 

Thorin :) 

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Great Screenhot. Looking forward to the combat update.

 

12 hours ago, Retrograde said:

It will include a range of bug fixes and more tweaks to the UI based on feedback

What kind of changes are coming? Confidential or can you elaborate? Font scaling? UI scaling to smaller/bigger Sizes?
Also, please tell me the CA Channel appearing after every update is fixed for good now.

Edited by Xheth

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20 minutes ago, Thorinoakshield said:

All  this whining about the praying update and had none of you whiners actually noticed that the one proposing this is playing a priest, most likely has benediction and has been proposing countless of improvements to Wurm for over the years?
So perhaps that player actually knew what he was talking about and decided it could be done better. Which eventually the Dev's decided to do.

 

I do sometimes wonder if we have players here who's only goal is to get up to top of having the most skills list; or they are actually enjoying this game.

Looking at some comments here, I think there are at least two people replying who are aiming for just that and when things are made easier, think they got the right to complain about it.

 

IMHO Wurm Online is a game you should enjoy and while for some that enjoyment comes from grinding one skill after another, for others grinding skills is something they don't like at all.

For the dev's this means they always have to find a middle  ground; making it impossible to please all kinds of players in this game. In the past there have been tweaks to this game I didn't like at all; yet I'm still playing it. The reason: I'm enjoying more aspects of this game as just getting skills for doing something.

if for some reason the way of gaining skill is tweaked and it would affect my skill - i.e. I've got my WS around 55 with much effort - I may not like it, but I won't complain about it, as in the end the new method may actually benefit this game and all players.

Perhaps that's something those whining about the current - and some past - changes should keep in mind. If it benefits the game, it will benefit the players as well. And when the community is happy, it'll benefit the game again.

 

 

As for the mentioned upcoming changes; I'm really looking forward for the new combat system.

 

 

Thorin :) 

Excellent, ignore all the arguments and dismiss all by calling it whining and going for the people.

 

Yes accomplishing something and having it entirely devalued is very fun and we don't have the right to complain about that if you disagree surely.

Edited by Joemog

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I do criticize Wurm staff where it is due, but I always try to make my criticism objective and constructive, while some of you criticizing this change only do it because you had it hard, so others should too. When the channelling grind was nerfed - it was a completely different issue - they rendered things people put a lot of (IRL) money useless, so the outrage was justfied, same goes for imbue nerfs - I still think they were completely unnecessary. Here you do not lose anything, just other people gain - new players who didn't play this game 10 years or so.

 

You can't just nerf and nerf, and nerf and never give anything, because if you do, soon there will be no one left to play Wurm other than die-hard "Team 2006", and there is no way it can survive. While I am for the policy that achievements should require effort, I am against putting it to such an extreme that you have to basically pay a lot of money to play idle RPG, this is why I wasn't grinding prayer and this is why I like this change, I might even start to skill prayer. Also, it will not give the gems faster than mining, will it? There comes thing I raised when imbues were nerfed - that there should be multiple ways to achieve a certain goal (in this case gems). 

 

Not to mention it was a suggestion made by the community - OP was backed by multiple other members of it.

 

When staff is ignoring suggestions - backlash, if they listen to suggestions - backlash.

 

While commenting on the changes you should think about how it will affect the whole community including staff, not only yourselves. 

 

Still I would like to read more about the planned changes, full changelog would be great. Please, do not be vague while announcing changes, it only makes the community uneasy. 

Edited by Platyna
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10 minutes ago, Platyna said:

 

Still I would like to read more about the planned changes, full changelog would be great. Please, do not be vague while announcing changes, it only makes the community uneasy. 

It's a little unrelated, but I do want to drive this point home.

In the past, Wurm had a lot of its allure based off the mystery of its mechanics; Nobody understood how anything worked. People had to experiment, myths would propagate all the time about how things worked (soul depth affecting casting power, axes being completely incapable of parrying at all, barrels with salt reducing decay, bridles affecting horse turn angles). After WU, which I firmly believe was rolf's attempt to hail-mary the game in the desire that someone else more competent than him would pick up the code and do something with it, all of that mystery vanished.

We have the code, and while alterations to it have been made, the pace of development updates alone shows that most of that code is just how it was in WU. There's no mystery anymore, and with how many players are experienced with modding the code, datamining for answers, and optimizing their gameplay, there's little reason to try and have that mystery unless you're introducing a whole new subsystem (i.e archeology) or revamping a subsystem entirely. Be clear, be honest, add a few numbers here and there (and if you don't have concrete numbers, add the rough estimations of what you hope to achieve.)

We've played this game for ages and while the community isn't perfect at balance, if you give them numbers you'll hear ten different opinions and perspectives on why that number is good or bad- and from there, you can determine where to go to hit what you achieve. There's ALWAYS a ton of oversight when implementing changes, and players are quick at finding those - they could often be found before the change even comes out if you would just post numbers and effects. Embrace that and work closer with the community, because at this point attempting to keep the mystery of wurm will only hurt it more.

I also think that as a dev team, you all should start working on figuring out what your greater 'vision' for the game is over the next several years, and communicating that vision with players. What do you hope or expect for a player coming into the game to be doing? A month into his gameplay? A year? What do you wish the gameplay pattern of pvp servers were? How should a pvp server be on its first week playing- a month, or year? When should kings start appearing, and how early do you want faith thresholds to be hit, and artifacts to be found? How should the nature of land conquest be seen, and should a pvp server be seen as an 'eternal' run, or should there be a perioding 'end' to a server? You can keep asking a thousand questions similar to this for every aspect of the game. It's what I think hasn't happened for a while. When Rolf was the main developer, he had these visions- he just didn't know how to achieve them. Epic was meant to reset periodically, Scenarios were meant to be large questline chains that could either be small (1 month) or long (a year+) with varying results of each, including the 'end' of a server as one of them. When Epic failed, he tried to imitate that vision with Challenge.

So, what's the vision now? And if you don't know- then it's about time to figure it out!

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My life sucked so everyone elses should! lol people kill me.

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A bit off topic but I had heard rumours of more sections being added to journals ,  fact or fiction?  And if factual any idea of a timeline when this would happen?

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6 hours ago, Retrograde said:

but I'm sure we can all agree it was an extreme amount of time spent just for hitting 70.

 

RrFKPeH.png

9gdSQu6.png

Edited by Madnath
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11 hours ago, Carmichael said:

can we have 100% meditations ticks as well as easier weaponsmithing too?

There was a lovely suggestion at some point about splitting up weaponsmithing into several skills for different weapon types. The skills together being the same difficulty as weaponsmithing is currently as a whole. That would surely spice things up.

 

Let me do 5 meditation attempts in a row per day instead of having to wait thirty minutes between one.

I always miss those annoying timers.

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Prayer is the most ridiculous excuse for a gaming mechanic is the history of gaming.

 

IT'S LITERALLY A LOADING BAR SKILL THAT GIVES YOU AN INCREASED NUMBER (sometimes lol). Fix that, not the fact that it's ###### boring as hell and can't get any more boring.

Edited by phennexion

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17 minutes ago, Madnath said:

 

RrFKPeH.png

9gdSQu6.png

 

That absurd is criticized since years, if they change this one, I will buy myself a t-shirt "I ❤️ Wurm devs". 

 

@Carmichael Considering such a Draconian time limits, getting 100% change of a meditation tick wouldn't be so bad. It is so annoying that you can meditate like 5 times and get no tick and meditation perks are really not worth it, and this is why players do not skill meditation. In fact if not the journal I wouldn't touch meditation with 10 meters long hot poker. It is boring, obnoxiously painful ordeal. 

Edited by Platyna
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12 minutes ago, Platyna said:

and meditation perks are really not worth it, and this is why players do not skill meditation.

 

Intellect of the Enlightened, Erupt/Freeze, Stamina of the Vibrant Light, Recall Home, Enchanted grass, Love Effect, Healing Hands and Shield of the Gone would all like a word with you.

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30 minutes ago, Madnath said:

 

RrFKPeH.png

9gdSQu6.png

ha.. revisiting stuff that matter.. unheard of.. 🤔

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Lets also take a minute to remember both get-info abilities are now useless with no traders but there's no word about making them useful for anything

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Once you accept that anything, good or bad, can change in the game, it's much more fun.

For me personally, once I accepted the fact that I lost 100's of dollars in fountain pans, marks to switch to Fo then have LoF almost immediately nerfed, lots of money on many trader deeds for draining (though to be fair the long-term investment return was positive, albeit small), my game experience has been much better.   It doesn't matter if anyone agrees or disagrees with any changes made.  What's done is done and the sooner you accept it, the faster you can get on to enjoying the game.  Unless it's enough to make you quit, in which case, thanks for all the fish.  Or you can become a dev and be more influential in the changes that you want made.

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46 minutes ago, Madnath said:

 

Intellect of the Enlightened, Erupt/Freeze, Stamina of the Vibrant Light, Recall Home, Enchanted grass, Love Effect, Healing Hands and Shield of the Gone would all like a word with you.

 

I am at Protector level of PoL, so enchanted grass - useful, but not worth it - I got an army of enchanters who do it for me for a good price, or even some friends who do it for free or for other services, stamina of the Vibrant light - not available for a new player, useless for a older player, players even intentionally hurt themselves to have less stamina, or they have such high BSTAM that they have no stamina related problems, plus you can child easy get a noob Fo priest that will regenerate your stamina. Recall home - also not something I would cry about if not had it. Healing hands - useless, I can patch myself up with rare rubbish, cotton and healing covers since a long time and grinding FA is a lot easier than grinding meditation to level 11 (sic!), Love effect - most useless bugged thing, a huge disappointment for me. I have FS high enough so this 2 minute buff is useless for me, I thought it will be useful to breed aggressive creatures or rescue myself from dire situations while taming - nope - a creature that is attacking me is not stopping the attack when I cast it, and for breeding also useless because my pet is still being attacked, which is a nonsense. Erupt/Freeze - just mine the damn vein. I had no problem finding people who would mine the veins for me for e.g. 50% of what was mined. Shield of the Gone - possible useful only on PVP.  On PVE there are no monsters besides uniques that make any serious harm to me, and I am like 75 FS. 

 

I am not saying these perks are useless entirely, but surely they are not worth the time and patience that has to be put in them. Most annoying in meditation is the need of running back and forth and throw away everything you do every 30 minutes and then every 3 hours - I feel like a circus animal in training. And before I wrote this - I checked PoL leaders on Ind - oldest and most populated server - it is a handful of players, meditation is basically a dead skill for those who want to make a journal or old bored players. 

 

Kudos to Rixk - the only person who maxed this thing out on a server that is...12 years old. 

Edited by Platyna

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3 hours ago, Thorinoakshield said:

All  this whining about the praying update and had none of you whiners actually noticed that the one proposing this is playing a priest, most likely has benediction and has been proposing countless of improvements to Wurm for over the years?
So perhaps that player actually knew what he was talking about and decided it could be done better. Which eventually the Dev's decided to do.

 

I do sometimes wonder if we have players here who's only goal is to get up to top of having the most skills list; or they are actually enjoying this game.

Looking at some comments here, I think there are at least two people replying who are aiming for just that and when things are made easier, think they got the right to complain about it.

 

IMHO Wurm Online is a game you should enjoy and while for some that enjoyment comes from grinding one skill after another, for others grinding skills is something they don't like at all.

For the dev's this means they always have to find a middle  ground; making it impossible to please all kinds of players in this game. In the past there have been tweaks to this game I didn't like at all; yet I'm still playing it. The reason: I'm enjoying more aspects of this game as just getting skills for doing something.

if for some reason the way of gaining skill is tweaked and it would affect my skill - i.e. I've got my WS around 55 with much effort - I may not like it, but I won't complain about it, as in the end the new method may actually benefit this game and all players.

Perhaps that's something those whining about the current - and some past - changes should keep in mind. If it benefits the game, it will benefit the players as well. And when the community is happy, it'll benefit the game again.

 

 

As for the mentioned upcoming changes; I'm really looking forward for the new combat system.

 

 

Thorin :) 

Agreed, very much! YES, IT IS WHINING!  When someone complains about "all my wasted time now," that tells me that you were only focused on becoming #1 and it was never about the game.  And to say all this now is pointless. The change has been made!  You have said your piece...time...and time...and time....and time...again.  Stating your case once, maybe rebutting something someone says once, I get it.  But this has become a pouting argument that will have no conclusion the way you want.  The change has been made, and I say, I want to see how this goes.

 

I have refused (basically) to even work on those skills for the simple fact it does take so long.  There are so many other aspects to play, I have been enjoying them.  Now that I may have a snowball's chance to attain the higher levels and finish the journal, I may actually care about continuing to work on those tasks. 

 

What people seem to forget is everyone plays at their comfort level.  I have ONE character, I live on ONE server.  I don't have thousands of hours to play every week.  Some people only have a few hours a weekend to play and making anything beyond hard is not a benefit to continue to encourage them to play.  How many people were so freaked out when the Steam players were going to converge on our universe?  And in the end, how many stayed?  A lot left because things were harder to earn and for someone that has limited resources, it just isn't a good fit.  Those of us that understand patience also understand evolution is necessary and we'll adapt.

 

If the fun is no longer part of the game, it may be time to move on.  Hopefully new changes will add more elements of fun for everyone. :)

Edited by Jingerjas
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13 hours ago, platinumteef said:

how much exactly does this impact the skill gain? it would be nice to have at least a rough estimate of action difficulty based on faith

 

feels like we might have turned around from penalizing priests at high faith to penalizing followers (whom would benefit from the benediction goal, but just aren't priests at the time) unless the difference isnt large

 

Followers will also be far better off than they were before. The size of the skill ticks themselves will be significantly larger, and they'll get skill on far more actions than before, particularly after 30-35 skill, which is particularly rough right now. In general, the percentage of actions that give you skill won't drop dramatically with higher the skill the way they did before.

 

Having very high Faith will be beneficial, but far from mandatory, sort of like the difference between having 0 affinities and having 1 or 2 affinities.

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My biggest problem is this update came out of nowhere with no talk about it. I've been praying everyday since christmas to be a pvp bene priest. While everyone was skilling I was wasting sleepbonus and valuable time to get ahead. Now with this change I basically lost 120 sleep powder and 3 months. (Limited playtime due to work) and all it did was further the gap between me and other players. Literally no point in playing anymore because I cant catch up or capitalize on my grind. Thanks. I'm not saying the change isnt good but you could have told us sooner instead of letting us waste our time. Yet the closed door policy is still in effect. Enjoy your dying game.

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43 minutes ago, Platyna said:

 

I am at Protector level of PoL, so enchanted grass - useful, but not worth it - I got an army of enchanters who do it for me for a good price, or even some friends who do it for free or for other services, stamina of the Vibrant light - not available for a new player, useless for a older player, players even intentionally hurt themselves to have less stamina, or they have such high BSTAM that they have no stamina related problems, plus you can child easy get a noob Fo priest that will regenerate your stamina. Recall home - also not something I would cry about if not had it. Healing hands - useless, I can patch myself up with rare rubbish, cotton and healing covers since a long time and grinding FA is a lot easier than grinding meditation to level 11 (sic!), Love effect - most useless bugged thing, a huge disappointment for me. I have FS high enough so this 2 minute buff is useless for me, I thought it will be useful to breed aggressive creatures or rescue myself from dire situations while taming - nope - a creature that is attacking me is not stopping the attack when I cast it, and for breeding also useless because my pet is still being attacked, which is a nonsense. Erupt/Freeze - just mine the damn vein. I had no problem finding people who would mine the veins for me for e.g. 50% of what was mined. Shield of the Gone - possible useful only on PVP.  On PVE there are no monsters besides uniques that make any serious harm to me, and I am like 75 FS. 

 

I am not saying these perks are useless entirely, but surely they are not worth the time and patience that has to be put in them. Most annoying in meditation is the need of running back and forth and throw away everything you do every 30 minutes and then every 3 hours - I feel like a circus animal in training. And before I wrote this - I checked PoL leaders on Ind - oldest and most populated server - it is a handful of players, meditation is basically a dead skill for those who want to make a journal or old bored players. 

 

Kudos to Rixk - the only person who maxed this thing out on a server that is...12 years old. 

feels kind of awkward to say that enchanted grass isn't worth the time and effort invested into getting it... because you can hire other people who have already done that investment for you to do it

doesn't that mean it is worth the time and effort to get it?

stamina can be gained way before you have extremely high BSTAM levels, and is particularly nice when grinding super afkable skills like mining, or in pvp sometimes. healing hands also increases healing you gain by like double or something, pretty valuable (especially in pvp, although sotg is probably still better). Love effect/fear have pvp applications. erupt/freeze is 100% better than trying to pay people to mine the vein for you, especially since you can hit level 7 in just under 3 weeks. SOTG is still broken in pvp


idk, meditation doesn't take much time to grind on a daily basis (literally all of like 10 minutes each day, just need to remember to set an alarm to go back and do it), it just needs you to be wary of when you need to do your next tick, and the rewards are 100% worth it for most paths.

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10 hours ago, Joemog said:

It's way too late to change the prayer grind.

You're absolutely ###### over people who invested time in it already. Not only did they waste time just standing around for no grind, they also missed out on thousands of gems since they had to be low faith to grind. No need to make benediction less special now. Everyone will have it on their priest now. Thought it was supposed to be an endgame grind.

-1

 

Hi there; I've been playing wurm for over 7 year now.  I'm one of the most prolific priests around (I've pushed for a better life for wurm priests for years) and am one of the only people who mains a priest left (because of how unbelivably horrible the system was).  So, I'll speak for folks who actually *play* priests rather than alt them.

 

Abusing a mechanic to grind more easily is definitely not something I'd want to do (which is what grinding at low faith is, and you'd have had to KNOW about that mechanic for a long time to use it to get to 70 which begs a lot of questions), and it is not something someone who wants to play a priest would do.  Mostly because you would not be playing a priest while you did it; you'd just be pressing "F to pray".

 

I don't have 70 prayer; because to get it I would have had to NOT play wurm for months on end.  From someone who has played a priest for years, I approve this change.

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7 minutes ago, Atndy said:

My biggest problem is this update came out of nowhere with no talk about it. I've been praying everyday since christmas to be a pvp bene priest. While everyone was skilling I was wasting sleepbonus and valuable time to get ahead. Now with this change I basically lost 120 sleep powder and 3 months. (Limited playtime due to work) and all it did was further the gap between me and other players. Literally no point in playing anymore because I cant catch up or capitalize on my grind. Thanks. I'm not saying the change isnt good but you could have told us sooner instead of letting us waste our time. Yet the closed door policy is still in effect. Enjoy your dying game.

 

That update is a suggestion and there was a talk about in the thread they linked.

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Nice. For anyone interested, the header picture is from Black Pearl on Exodus. :) 

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8 minutes ago, Platyna said:

I am at Protector level of PoL, so enchanted grass - useful, but not worth it

You're at baby levels of meditation, but it's a handy thing for not much time spent at all. You've barely tickled the system.

 

38 minutes ago, Platyna said:

stamina of the Vibrant light - not available for a new player, useless for a older player, players even intentionally hurt themselves to have less stamina, or they have such high BSTAM that they have no stamina related problems, plus you can child easy get a noob Fo priest that will regenerate your stamina.

This is exactly why all vet accounts with high body stam roll with PoP if they know the game well!

Wait... what?

I have no idea how limited your game knowledge is, I don't think sitting in CA-Help all day has really enlightened you as far as those mechanics go. Also yeah I'm sure your average player has access to a Fo priest who just sits behind you to feed you stamina lol.

1 hour ago, Platyna said:

Erupt/Freeze - just mine the damn vein. I had no problem finding people who would mine the veins for me for e.g. 50% of what was mined.

Shield of the Gone - possible useful only on PVP.  On PVE there are no monsters besides uniques that make any serious harm to me, and I am like 75 FS.

That's the baby method of using lava. Real ones know how valuable lava tiles can be for the day to day beyond crap like vein nuking.

Shield of the Gone use isn't something I'm comfortable judging fully without a fair amount of experience with it, but face value it's handy if you leave deed once every now and then.

 

It feels like so far we've basically narrowed this down from "meditation abilities aren't worth the time" to "I fundamentally misunderstand the use of SotVL for high level players and see no value myself for these abilities, therefor they must be not worth it"

Meditation really isn't that bad to get to 70 if you know how to properly adjust rug QL for gains....

....

....

....

And understand what rug rarity does before you yeet your rare rugs away

tenor.gif

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This is a wonderful update.  I do not play PvP, but feel like I've been forced to play on a PvP server, because if I don't, I'm going to get left way behind on things like Prayer and SB gains from ritual spells.  I don't like it at all, but I'm doing it anyway.

 

For everyone complaining that they already spent the time doing Prayer the hard way, are you not incredibly wealthy from all the enchants you have sold?  You got there first and it was a big payoff.  Congrats! You did it the harder way and hey, maybe fight for a special title that you can wear with pride, that shows you did it before it got properly adjusted.  Asking the entire rest of the population now and in the future to suffer, just because you suffered... Well, it is a tad selfish, don't you think?  Can't you be happy that other people don't have to go thrugh what you went through to get there?

 

@Retrograde based on your words on this change to prayer, would it not be a great time to also consider balancing other skills, like Weaponsmithing?  Will it ever be up for consideration, or is it something devs have unanimously determined shall always remain the way it is?

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