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Platyna

Nice clip about online gaming combat Wurm developers should watch.

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A military historian is speaking about medieval weapons, combat movement and so on. Could be useful for some ideas to improve Wurm combat. Very interesting idea to steal - is pollaxe - which was a real weapon - combing the axe, hammer and a spear with two heads. No idea if this fits more here or to Suggestions...

 

 

Edited by Platyna
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Nice clip about online gaming combat Wurm developers should watch.

and how wurm would benefit with its afk combat system?

Edited by Votip
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To be honest, Wurm's "afk combat system" could be replaced by almost any other combat system and it would be more interactive than what we have. 

 

The big issue with it is the engine Wurm runs on. We'd need actual player collisions, hitboxes and such to have a combat system like Mordhau or Kingdom Come Deliverance. 

 

In the absence of coding collisions, then we'd need actual abilities to use in combat that are much more realistic. 


Think games like Wow that doesn't have player to player collision. 

 

We could use things like "thrust", "parry up" "parry down", "tackle", "throw knife" "throw net" , "feign", "riposte" etc as combat abilities to make pvp a hundred times more interesting.

 

As for historical accuracy in games, when it comes to warfare, it's simply impossible. The reasoning behind it is the nature of warfare itself. Humans always wanted to be in the meta-aspect of warfare, aka have the best weapons available.

 

Remember when the terrifying power of the french knighthood was extinguished at Agincourt? For centuries, cavalry was a game changer in warfare, and in one day English and Welsh Longbowmen fell thousands of soldiers. 

 

In Wurm, its warfare technology would be situated somewhere around the 11th century (since we don't have crossbows yet). I'm not gonna delve into other anachronisms such as the existence of caravels or other Wurm tech. 

 

In such a context, considering we have plate, mail and leather, the dominant weapon should be the hammer, longsword or axe (to break plate, stab it or crush its wearer), the spear (against cavalry charges) and the longbow. Other weapons would be rather pointless. Shortbows were usually weapons used by light cavalry to harass the enemy (see mongol tactics). Clubs shouldn't be discounted either but in Wurm they are not viable (sadly). 

 

If we'd apply RL meta to Wurm, fights should mainly revolve around who can use a longbow mostly. And in Wurm you can't use it (for some reason ) if a target is within 10 tiles. 

 

Wurm still has many balancing issues. 

 

Anyway, TLDR, without collisions, formations are mostly pointless (such as pike and shield), the meta in Wurm cannot be related to RL historical references (look up in history and see that leather armor was pretty much non existant, yet many movies and games portray it as a standard). 

 

Do we have gambezons (akatons) ? Nope. Do we have crossbows? Nope. If wurm was historical, crossbows would simply be the dominant weapon in game. 

 

We could add more weapons and gear to the game if we wanted to, and I'd support that. But mostly for balancing and diversity reasons rather than accuracy. In RL a gambezon would be the go to armor to start with. There are some beautiful videos out there showcasing how a thick gambezon can stop a longbow arrow or even a bolt. 

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1 minute ago, elentari said:

To be honest, Wurm's "afk combat system" could be replaced by almost any other combat system and it would be more interactive than what we have. 

 

The big issue with it is the engine Wurm runs on. We'd need actual player collisions, hitboxes and such to have a combat system like Mordhau or Kingdom Come Deliverance. 

 

In the absence of coding collisions, then we'd need actual abilities to use in combat that are much more realistic. 


Think games like Wow that doesn't have player to player collision. 

 

We could use things like "thrust", "parry up" "parry down", "tackle", "throw knife" "throw net" , "feign", "riposte" etc as combat abilities to make pvp a hundred times more interesting.

 

As for historical accuracy in games, when it comes to warfare, it's simply impossible. The reasoning behind it is the nature of warfare itself. Humans always wanted to be in the meta-aspect of warfare, aka have the best weapons available.

 

Remember when the terrifying power of the french knighthood was extinguished at Agincourt? For centuries, cavalry was a game changer in warfare, and in one day English and Welsh Longbowmen fell thousands of soldiers. 

 

In Wurm, its warfare technology would be situated somewhere around the 11th century (since we don't have crossbows yet). I'm not gonna delve into other anachronisms such as the existence of caravels or other Wurm tech. 

 

In such a context, considering we have plate, mail and leather, the dominant weapon should be the hammer, longsword or axe (to break plate, stab it or crush its wearer), the spear (against cavalry charges) and the longbow. Other weapons would be rather pointless. Shortbows were usually weapons used by light cavalry to harass the enemy (see mongol tactics). Clubs shouldn't be discounted either but in Wurm they are not viable (sadly). 

 

If we'd apply RL meta to Wurm, fights should mainly revolve around who can use a longbow mostly. And in Wurm you can't use it (for some reason ) if a target is within 10 tiles. 

 

Wurm still has many balancing issues. 

 

Anyway, TLDR, without collisions, formations are mostly pointless (such as pike and shield), the meta in Wurm cannot be related to RL historical references (look up in history and see that leather armor was pretty much non existant, yet many movies and games portray it as a standard). 

 

Do we have gambezons (akatons) ? Nope. Do we have crossbows? Nope. If wurm was historical, crossbows would simply be the dominant weapon in game. 

 

We could add more weapons and gear to the game if we wanted to, and I'd support that. But mostly for balancing and diversity reasons rather than accuracy. In RL a gambezon would be the go to armor to start with. There are some beautiful videos out there showcasing how a thick gambezon can stop a longbow arrow or even a bolt. 

 Key aspect of Wurm Online is the freedom to do whatever you want, if we put a meta in the small pvp this game has, you are going against the inner Wurm nature. Who would want to play a crossbow pvp game? just to CSGO if you want to shoot someone.

This game has enough weapons, devs should remake and balance them in a way they are all viable and fun, instead of a meta which limits the creativity and FREEDOM aspect of this game.

 

Just my 2 copper.

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Moved to suggestions, as this is turning out to be more of a discussion about possible changes to the combat system.

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I'd just be happy if we could get crossbows :(   I dun even care if it just copy/pastes archery stuff at this point to accomplish it.

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I posted this as some ideas to improve or enrich the combat system, not as a call to bicker about the current one. 😛 

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Wurm is generally poor in polearms; or weapons variety in general.  There are basic classes of weapons, but very little to pick from within the class.  For example, of swords there are three.   

 

For polearms, there are 2 staffs, 2 spears and a halberd.  Polearms are an incredibly diverse class of weapon, and Wurm basically has 3 broad types.  No pollaxes, lochaber axes, guisarmes, bardiches, glaives - and those are just a selection of only European ones.

 

There are no maces - a truly ancient weapon.

 

Mostly that is all cosmetic, though, because the combat system would be at home in Zork.

 

 

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56 minutes ago, TheTrickster said:

Wurm is generally poor in polearms; or weapons variety in general.  There are basic classes of weapons, but very little to pick from within the class.  For example, of swords there are three.   

 

For polearms, there are 2 staffs, 2 spears and a halberd.  Polearms are an incredibly diverse class of weapon, and Wurm basically has 3 broad types.  No pollaxes, lochaber axes, guisarmes, bardiches, glaives - and those are just a selection of only European ones.

 

There are no maces - a truly ancient weapon.

 

Mostly that is all cosmetic, though, because the combat system would be at home in Zork.

 

 

Bohemian earspoon.

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11 hours ago, ThatYoungLad said:

 Key aspect of Wurm Online is the freedom to do whatever you want, if we put a meta in the small pvp this game has, you are going against the inner Wurm nature. Who would want to play a crossbow pvp game? just to CSGO if you want to shoot someone.

This game has enough weapons, devs should remake and balance them in a way they are all viable and fun, instead of a meta which limits the creativity and FREEDOM aspect of this game.

 

Just my 2 copper.


There is, literally, already a meta. There will always be a meta in games like this.

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Personally I just think these weapons would be cool to have in-game, it's why I like skins so much. 

 

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23 minutes ago, Retrograde said:

Personally I just think these weapons would be cool to have in-game, it's why I like skins so much. 

 

 

MORE SKINS!  (please).

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9 hours ago, Retrograde said:

Personally I just think these weapons would be cool to have in-game, it's why I like skins so much. 

 

 

Well, I like skins too but it would be nice if they were available in cycles, because for example, as a new player I have no chance to get the shield skin. 

 

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"Pens, I know, but they're mightier than the sword."  For all the expertise and insight in the rest of it, this line, delivered in-passing, is to me the best..

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On 1/13/2021 at 11:44 PM, Platyna said:

as a new player I have no chance to get the shield skin

 

@Platynawts skinned large steel shield QL75  with CoC63  😜  (Actually, I probably couldn't part with it, because the lack of repeat on the skin means it is irreplaceable - it is currently my everyday carry and I am very attached to it).

 

There would definitely be a market for skins long term because they open up a level of customization to make your stuff distinctive.  

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Ehmmm, honestly the video is good, but I also do not see how the wurm developers might actually "benefit" from it. Or, what useful things they should take out of it. Well, I do understand your idea, that you want the combat system to be improved in a certain way, and for the developers to get inspired from here. However, I do no really think it might actually work out. The game is still really great man. It is that sometimes, ... it is annoying. When I get annoyed by it, I start playing poker on https://www.u12x.com/แทงบอล/ as it is one of the the things that actually relaxes me.

Edited by nayruny

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