HolyPower

Cadence/Melody rift problem

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Is it only me who think that 2/3 rifts on NFI starting at the same time is a bad game design?

Today on Cadense we have awesome time at massive rift (apart from the terrible massive lags), there was 150+ people in local, 2000+mobs was killed. It was 4 hour rift with lots of rift points to all of us.

It was really great time! And in the exact same time on Melody there was 17 people at same 4 hour rift, that was closed right after Cadens rift.

We have only 2 rifts at week on NFI and even less if we not always can be there at time. And if some of us want to close 100 rifts for journal... I dont even want to think about it...

Isn't be right to separate those rifts at different days so more people have chance to participate?

 

And some pic from Cadense rift:
 

Spoiler

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They will eventually spread out 

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14 minutes ago, Jore said:

They will eventually spread out 

In year or two? May be 😂
 

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18 minutes ago, HolyPower said:

In year or two? May be 😂

i dont think so

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Posted (edited)

You call it 'bad game design' - but rifts are spawned based on when players closed them last, they're not purposely coded to happen at the same time - so you (players) can technically adjust this if you want to hit both. Either hold off going after one together, or stretch them out so they're not lumped on top of each other. It WILL spread out over time. It just happens that right now, you're finishing them at the same time on each server.

Edited by Stargrace
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15 minutes ago, Stargrace said:

You call it 'bad game design' - but rifts are spawned based on when players closed them last, they're not purposely coded to happen at the same time - so you (players) can technically adjust this if you want to hit both. Either hold off going after one together, or stretch them out so they're not lumped on top of each other. It WILL spread out over time. It just happens that right now, you're finishing them at the same time on each server.

putting the burden on the community in a massive community based game is hilarious

this is bad game design, not the worst thing ever and certainly something that can be fixed easily, but it's improperly designed when considering large populations of players (like many other mechanics)

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Posted (edited)
30 minutes ago, Stargrace said:

You call it 'bad game design' - but rifts are spawned based on when players closed them last, they're not purposely coded to happen at the same time - so you (players) can technically adjust this if you want to hit both. Either hold off going after one together, or stretch them out so they're not lumped on top of each other. It WILL spread out over time.

no-no. After update when rifts was enabled on NFI, those two started almost at the same time, right at the update day, even without 2 days of red beam. So they was purposely coded to open at the same time at first. For instance first Harmony rift was opened after couple days after that update like it supposed to open with 2 days preparation. Or i missed something? And first rifts on Cadence and Melody both was closed in 3 hours after they start. And today they was bouth closed in 4 hours, so next week they again start at same time. And rift adjust to number of players so those pооr 17 peoples on Melody successfully closed it. So even if most of players want to delay them - they couldn't. (I don't speak for anyone here, i'm just discussing possibilities 🙂)

And sorry for my bad english 😃

Edited by HolyPower

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7 hours ago, HolyPower said:

no-no. After update when rifts was enabled on NFI, those two started almost at the same time, right at the update day, even without 2 days of red beam. So they was purposely coded to open at the same time at first. For instance first Harmony rift was opened after couple days after that update like it supposed to open with 2 days preparation. Or i missed something? And first rifts on Cadence and Melody both was closed in 3 hours after they start. And today they was bouth closed in 4 hours, so next week they again start at same time. And rift adjust to number of players so those pооr 17 peoples on Melody successfully closed it. So even if most of players want to delay them - they couldn't. (I don't speak for anyone here, i'm just discussing possibilities 🙂)

And sorry for my bad english 😃

 

Yes, you missed something.

 

It seems that when Harmony - and Decadence too, if that had a rift - was coded, the usual rift sequence was added to it as those were  the two first servers to open.

However, somehow when setting up the other two servers, things got wrong or were forgotten, resulting in both servers having to open their rifts right away, instead of having the two day beacon. I'm aware it's an inconvinience, but rifts do spread out over time, so there's nothing to worry about.

 

As for spreading them out, it's simply going to happen due to the amount of players. Which is going to be depending at the time zone the players live in.

Since all Wurm servers are global servers and not every player can be online 24/7, the amount of players participating in closing a rift will vary. And the less people  there are - I've been at a Xan rift where only 5 people were present - the longer it'll take to close a rift. The one at Xan took us close to or even over 12 hours. Which also means that the next rift did appear 7 days and 12 hours after the previous one appeared.

 

7 hours ago, RainRain said:

putting the burden on the community in a massive community based game is hilarious

this is bad game design, not the worst thing ever and certainly something that can be fixed easily, but it's improperly designed when considering large populations of players (like many other mechanics)

No it isn't.

 

Bad game design would be to have a rift spawn, open it up 2 days after and then setting a time lock at it to close; no matter if there are people fighting there or not.

 

Imagine what will happen if you were fighting the last wave, close to kill the last monster so you got enough hearts to sac and the automated rift closing gets activated, leaving you with some nice stats, but no goodies. I'm quite certain the forums both hear and at steam would explode.

 

Or imagine that a rift will auto-close and spawn the goodies. Barely no-one would bother to fight the monsters, given the "why risk my hide if I can get the stuff for free after 'X' time?"

That means players would just camp near a rift, wait for it to auto-close, harvest the crystals and wood and return to their deeds.

 

 

Rifts are community events, in which it is the task of the community to deal with whatever is thrown at them. If the participation of the community is taken away, the entire idea of the rift has become worthless and could as well been taken away.

Being a community event, also means that it depend at the community how long the event last. And like I said before, given this game uses global servers and we can divide the Wurm population into 3 groups (Europeans, Asian / Australia / New Zealand and North- / South-Americans), as well as they will open at weekdays, there will different numbers players present to close a rift. That too is the joy of a rift. Sometimes you will fight it with 50 players and sometimes with 5. But eventually a rift can be closed; you just need to adjust your tactics.

That isn't bad game design, that's how community events are supposed to work. Like it or not.

 

Thorin :) 

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10 hours ago, RainRain said:

putting the burden on the community in a massive community based game is hilarious

 

Oh noes what?! Why would we ever consider having the community do something in a game that is community based!

 

Do you hear how that sounds? Of course it is placed on the community, because it IS a community based game, and it is the entire point of having events and rifts. Let the community handle it. The events will space over time, just like they do / did for every other server out there where one happened to land at the same time as another. Patience. It will be OK.

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6 minutes ago, Stargrace said:

Of course it is placed on the community, because it IS a community based game

As Thorin says, in our case, it is placed on the community, because things got wrong or were forgotten by devs, resulting in both servers having to open their rifts right away.

And yeah that will be interesting to update this post in future to see how rifts will spread.

As for this week we have same timing as on last week. 150 people closing rift on Cadence in same time as 17 people on Melody.

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Posted (edited)

They will maybe be the same for weeks, even months. But they will space out.

On SFI there have been several servers having rifts almost at the same time, many times, and i havent seen many comments about it. Just give it time - it has been 2 rift cycles on NFI, and there will be rifts for years.

Edited by Nordlys

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12 minutes ago, Nordlys said:

On SFI there have been several servers having rifts almost at the same time, many times, and i havent seen any comments about it.

Yes, but there 7 servers where you can go to rifts, players CAN choose where and when to go lots of time at week. And on NFI we have only 3 servers and not many variants for people in different time zones. And dealing with 2 rift at the same time from start "because things got wrong or were forgotten" by devs its kinda different situation from SFI when some rifts was started at same time.
Lets imagen that 6 of 7 servers start their rift at exact same time on SFI and you can chose Xanadu at one day and all other servers at another day. Wow its like nightmare! I think then some people wil post some comments, aspetially those who want to get 100 rifts for journal. 🤣

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1 hour ago, HolyPower said:

aspetially those who want to get 100 rifts for journal. 🤣

This is not a game where you reach 100 rifts in 34 weeks. (3 servers once a week), listen to what the older players tell you and calm down. We had two rounds of rifts so far.

It seems more normal that it takes over a year.

 

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The 100 rifts goal is not intended to be done in a few months (even on SFI many are whiargueing about. If you do all rifts on two servers you can do it in a year though - not that I recommend that. When the jackal event started in September 19, we also had all rifts "synchronized" practically at the same time (to give all servers a chance to get to jackal) which many, including me, found very unfortunate. But I must admit that it was a matter of less than two months that the starting times became more diverse again. Btw., when I sail to other servers from G13 Xanadu where I live, I have to traverse a mileage close to the size of Harmony/Cadence only to reach the server border. Sailing from Melody in comparison is done in a fly. To get close to a rift I have to double server hop sometimes, in bad winds count well an hour or more one way.

 

This is for the crazies (like me 😎) who want to do the goal in a year or less. Yet, I loved it. If you see it as a chore, relax. Honestly, longest and most tedious for me were the 500 cooking recipes, followed by the 250 missions.

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Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, Cecci said:

listen to what the older players tell you and calm down

Yes ma'am, as you command! 🙃

No really did i say something wrong so i need calm down?

Edited by HolyPower

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I also think that it would be more convenient if the rifts were launched on different days and time. Perhaps you have a chance to reschedule one event to the next day?

In any case, thanks for the fun and interesting events!

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2 hours ago, Nessime said:

I also think that it would be more convenient if the rifts were launched on different days and time. Perhaps you have a chance to reschedule one event to the next day?

In any case, thanks for the fun and interesting events!

They will naturally spread out over time as the next one opens based on when it was closed.  When they first came to SFI, they were all started at the same time. They are now fairly spread out.

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15 hours ago, HolyPower said:

because things got wrong or were forgotten by devs

 

Im afraid you seem to be a little misguided there, it is not the first time and unlikely to be the last. It was done by design and nothing was forgotten if we agree with their method or not and just as the last time when 8 servers were lumped together the answer is the same - "They'll start spreading out on their own, don't worry!"

 

https://forum.wurmonline.com/index.php?/topic/171752-disentangle-rift-start-times/

 

 

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Posted (edited)

Regarding the mistake made with the rifts at the new servers:
 

That was the first comment asking why things didn't go as planned.

And here's Retro's reply:
 

Meaning, something went wrong, the Dev's were aware of it and have fixed it.

 

Problem solved, let's move on to  the next.

 

 

Regarding the spreading out of their starting times:

https://niarja.com/universes/online/rifts


And I copy / pasted the table for those to laz... unable to check the link right now. Times are in CET, btw, but it's more to give an impression. The link provides the time according your time zone.

Quote
Server Last Close Date Estimated Open Time Estimated Start Time Last Rift Length
 
Deliverance
2021-01-03 04:24 AM 2021-01-10 04:24 AM 2021-01-12 04:24 AM 01:31:46
 
Xanadu
2021-01-03 12:11 PM 2021-01-10 12:11 PM 2021-01-12 12:11 PM 01:51:26
 
Release
2021-01-04 01:34 AM 2021-01-11 01:34 AM 2021-01-13 01:34 AM 01:47:16
 
Exodus
2021-01-04 08:54 PM 2021-01-11 08:54 PM 2021-01-13 08:54 PM 01:37:01
 
Pristine
2021-01-06 02:32 AM 2021-01-13 02:32 AM 2021-01-15 02:32 AM 02:10:08
 
Independence
2021-01-06 07:02 AM 2021-01-13 07:02 AM 2021-01-15 07:02 AM 02:29:33
 
Cadence
2021-01-08 01:32 AM 2021-01-15 01:32 AM 2021-01-17 01:32 AM > 2 Days
 
Melody
2021-01-08 01:54 AM 2021-01-15 01:54 AM 2021-01-17 01:54 AM > 2 Days

 

As people can see there, all rifts at the old servers are starting at different dates and times. And that's despite they have been starting at the same time twice!! since the mechanics were introduced. Last time was last year, iirc.

 

Which means that within a period of 40-41 rifts times are so different, players can easily visit multiple rifts within a few days. EVEN at the new servers where only 3 servers are available.

Seeing the ones at Cadence and Melody open in the night of Monday to Tuesday; it's very likely few players will attent and thus it'll take longer for the rift to close. Which also means the next time these rifts will open, it's likely Thursday late in the morning or early afternoon.

 

I rest my case.

 

Thorin :) 

Edited by Thorinoakshield
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On 1/9/2021 at 2:00 PM, Thorinoakshield said:

it's very likely few players will attent and thus it'll take longer for the rift to close

May be there was some changes in rifts mecanics? Because what we see there something little different here.
So we have 150 people on Cadense and 17 on melody and we close those rifts at the same time. And on Defince was only 5-6 people and they have almost same closing time, about 4.5 hour as i was told. Is there any way to see more accurate time of rift lenght than "> 2 Days" as Niarjja says?
Only hope on Zuelatek initiative what already take some hate from some people... And with willing of ALL Melody players. Will see, and it will be very interesting one.

 

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 There was a change in adapting mob numbers to numbers of participants, but that was after Jackal launch in September, 2019. 10+ sufficiently strong and well equipped participants may close a rift no shorter than 100+ . There will still be a difference if less than 5 rift fighters engage in combat. I fought in a couple of rifts with 1 to 2 others, and that may take 6 hours or more, require to waive warmaster combat, and need tricks like ninja saccing of hearts, at least in the last 2 rounds.

 

The Niarja figures will adapt after the next round of rifts, I assume. There simply no useful metrics existed for previous rifts at the first start, and Niarja data had to be updated accordingly. Niarja is an invaluable service though, and be grateful for - it is volunteer's work, after all.

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"To allow for easier spread and ensure players of all time zones can attend one, the Melody rift will be delayed by 12 hours"

Thanks devs! Case is solved 🥰

 

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Good move, thanks devs!

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We should have it on other servers too. On Ind rifts are in such hours that we have 10 people because all others are sleeping. Server should be "aware" of when there are the most players online on and open rifts accordingly. 

Edited by Platyna

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