Retrograde

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honestly the only thing that excites me from this combat update is the idea of autofight being less dumb. Now i can just get a huge axe, turn on autofight and turn pvp into an even more brainless experience than it already is.

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@RainRainYou can hit everything in a week or month when grinding 24/7, but this is rather an extreme case scenario, and while it should be noticed it is not something to base the mechanics on, and also you just provide arguments against your own theses - because if you can grind to 90 then what is the point of nerfing imbues at all? It will just remove some choice of path from players and heavy grinders will not even feel it. 

 

Just to clarify, as you direct the messages like I was protecting my game play - for me mining imbue is not something that is an important element of the game play - due to the fact I have severe anxiety attacks in dark, small places, and these kick in Wurm mines as well, so unless the vein is right next to entrance where I can still see the outside, it is not available for me, so I had to rely on high level players to mine my resources, plus my deed scavenging activity - I am well stacked to do at least blacksmithing 100. I have an imbue 100 pickaxe, but it was mainly done because of the journal or to get a few shards for imping, considering the above and the fact I wrote economy systems for RPG I think I am impartial here. And from my experience I may say with a huge degree of confidentiality that nerfs rarely brought any improvement and usually just brought exodus of unhappy players and a hard time for the moderation that had to deal with bickering. Channelling issue illustrates it in amazing way - when the nerf caused outrage (which I knew it will happen, I wrote to developers a warning this will happen like 5 minutes after learning what the changes were which was before the server restart), the team had to step back and go to the right path - replace the mechanics or add to it instead just making old mechanics useless. 

 

ASD people may seem rude, unsympathetic, pesky, and disobedient, but we have no match in paying attention to details and spotting patters. 😉 

Edited by Platyna

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1 hour ago, Sputnix said:


I dont really understood the problem.

With 90 Mining at 90 vein.
Now you will get like 10-20% ql 90-100 metal.
After patch you will get (have a guess) 40% or something ql 90 metal.

Sounds for me like a very good trade, you get more better metal out of veins.

it's a nerf, not a buff..

no idea how you read it as 'good' change and improve the % for high ql.. when post states.. at low ql you'll get better results, and higher ql the power of imbue and rune wont be as good.. 

on average you get more trash low ql iron to be higher(it's still creation ql iron - whatever if ql40 turns to 60, it's still useless); higher ql iron.. - you'll get less often and not as high

 

1 hour ago, Platyna said:

If only people who landed a successful hit would get hide/scale then there would be less private slayings I think. 

It's not about hits.. it's about people losing their minds after filling their pockets and the inability to understand a concept where other could be wanting some fun.. nobody cares if you land a hit on the unique, priv groups generally do not want you in local to share any of the hide or scale or at times even bloods.. even if it's worthless kind.

That's how we get years and years the same broken mechanic abused with same spawn spots, timers, alts, spies and whole shebang for few coins; even after rmt dropped this sh.. show keeps on rolling

 

49 minutes ago, Votip said:

imps have never been that cheap as are now

actually I've seen imps cheaper, prices jumped a bit after rmt drop, actually probably the trend started half a year before that, maybe linked to some high skilled accounts being sold to people not dealing with providing services, and opening a gap in the market for smaller fishes(maybe .. just seen cheaper imps before)

5 minutes ago, Beastwolf said:

@Votip im so proud to have you in our kingdom right now this is beautiful

ATTA BUOY!

 

4 minutes ago, Oblivionnreaver said:

 

 

sounds like it'll be exactly the same as it currently is, where if you actively choose target areas you get bonuses compared to just afk slapping them

That be disgusting.. every kill turning into a minigame.. and we don't even get to choose what to fight.. going out usually means 5 mobs coming to high-5 you.. at once.. we still lack any AoE abilities no matter what FS the player have grinded.. 

I really wont be a fan of pressing many keys to kill something that gives ABSOLUTELY NOTHING, 10 meat on a good day and a hoof... doesn't exactly sound like reasonable loot to cause any hand/finger related issues by spamming keys nonstop when you're out hunting mobs for fs/loot/or w/e reason involving killing many mobs.

Hope new change isn't involving the guessed timed actions and sports to target... 

 

7 minutes ago, Ogare said:

 

First, Giving people choices that are equal is the proper way to do things. An auto fight that is a little less effective is essentially penalizing us who like easier combat.

 

Second, Will Wurm fully explain the fight system please? It needs to be explained so we know how to fight at the very least.

 

 

GOOD question.. but devs usually do NOT share how things works.. some read WU code, guess, test, learn, and rarely share the findings .. as in pvp.. especially during rmt.. it was making money.. after rmt.. idk how profitable it is to grind pixels, maybe just for free prem and stacking shinies.. so another version of the pve hoarding.. just 1-2 extra brags.

 

Best ever explanation of the fighting in wurm was explained in @Sindusk's twitch stream and the doc he released on forums.. with findings from WU code(which might or might not be.. similar or same to what is in wurm currently, and soon about to change for sure)

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1 hour ago, Sputnix said:

I dont really understood the problem.

I second this.

 

Quote

With 90 Mining at 90 vein.
Now you will get like 10-20% ql 90-100 metal.
After patch you will get (have a guess) 40% or something ql 90 metal.
Sounds for me like a very good trade, you get more better metal out of veins.

Wit 98 Mining at a 90 vein, I don't get but max 90, only bit more thereof. A good trade?

Edited by Ekcin
typo

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for imbues, cranking out 100ql ore with 70 skill is pretty dumb, but if they're getting dumpstered something should be done about vein ql so that you can actually get high ql ore reliably, not everyone wants to prospect across the entire server to find one of three utmost gold/silver veins in the entire server, like maybe you can always mine up to 100ql from a vein but if the vein is lower quality you'd have a penalty to average ql, which is partially mitigated by rune/imbue or something. every time i go out prospecting i'm just disappointed in how much ore around me is absolute garbage ql that i'd never bother mining unless i was skilling

"but the focus is on increasing the minimum quality output, meaning it is far more effective at lower levels"

Unless i'm missing something, imbues are an end game item. Assuming you're getting a super nat subs to imbue your tool, you'd need to kill around 9 of the same unique to get enough to fully imbue a tool, you'd need a rare+ tool so the imbue doesn't decay super fast, you'd need to mine enough to get source crystals to make the potions, assuming you ignore you can p2w it all with alts or buying it, all of these things point to it being a very end game item, why are they being balanced around low skill?

One thing that isn't mentioned is imbues for creation skills (such as stonecutting imbue on a chisel), are these being changed?

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1 hour ago, KillerSpike said:

I don't and I never did say I know what everybody wants. thus there should be consultation

 

They literally say there will be public testing for both pve and pvp in the first post.

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12 minutes ago, Finnn said:

That be disgusting.. every kill turning into a minigame.. and we don't even get to choose what to fight.. going out usually means 5 mobs coming to high-5 you.. at once.. we still lack any AoE abilities no matter what FS the player have grinded.. 

just turn on autofight and afk kill mobs like you always do, if you're constantly getting 5+ mobs on you that sounds like a situational awareness problem. maybe combat is so mind numbingly boring atm that it's causing you to zone out and run into groups of mobs without noticing?

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2 minutes ago, Cipacadrinho said:

 

They literally say there will be public testing for both pve and pvp in the first post.

It’s literally for the fighting mechanics. Imbues coming the 29th. 

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11 minutes ago, Finnn said:

but devs usually do NOT share how things works

I'm aware of how Wurm has done things historically. I just hope that they can see that somethings need to change going forward. imo, thoroughly documenting fight system is essential to providing fun. I'm confident most people don't find the idea of statistically analyzing aspects of combat so they know how to use the system something that is fun. WU code diving won't be an option this time since WU updates are dead now.

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47 minutes ago, Tor said:

Why do you even wanna with 6 months play time to compete with someone that plays 10 years in a first place? And why you should have same or better output then them or whoever put an effort to grind

 

Because after I play 10 years you will play 20, and after I play 20 you will play 30, do you understand my point? The game cannot be overruled by a certain group of people just because they fulfilled the requirement no one can fulfil any more, unless you would hand free time machine, so I can start in 2006 with all be bugs, mechanics quirks, RMT and other things that gave you a gigantic advantage against myself, also I do not wish my suggestions to be shallowed.  The output in a well-balanced RPG economy is based not on bugs, quirks, RMT and years played but wit, reason, hours played and effort put in game. And the game is interesting if there are multiple paths to achieve a certain goal. Getting fighting to 70 is harder than getting mining to 70, not to mention you have to have enough reason to earn money in Wurm (unless you are situated well enough IRL to buy silver from Wurm shop, but then you can use them to buy mining resources so this is something that is not important in this discussion). So, I got my fighting over 70, I put a lot of time and effort to skill AH and also invested a lot of money to start animal sales, so I can say I put more effort than a person who just grind mining to 90. I picked this path willingly, not because I am lazy. I can easily guess I am one of the most active if not the most active player in Wurm (is there any way to check it I am very curious?) 

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@Retrograde PLEASE I beg you, do not let the rifts ruin the landscape on NFI.  The new servers are quite beautiful still.  If I had to choose between rifts or keeping the server beautiful, I choose the server every time.  I don't think there is a single person that likes seeing all the mess each rift leaves behind.  You guys can easily fix that.  I love the rifts for the excitement and rewards, but it is so ugly after :(:(:(

 

It is like having a garbage truck back up to your house and just dump their entire load and leave.

Edited by Wurmhole
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OR has said most. It is a dumb and cruel nerf from those who did not understand what they are doing or don't care. There was a promise that such changes would be proposed and discussed. Yet another broken one.

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Retro is the BEST..... VI is alive again!!!!....So happy :) :) :) :) :) :) :) 

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Also, regarding imbues and runes.  I really hope all imbues and runes that are getting nerfed will apply to ALL EXISTING too, or you will yet again create an unbalance that favors the legacy player.  I own these legacy runes and imbues, so it will impact me too, but balance is more important.

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6 minutes ago, Oblivionnreaver said:

just turn on autofight and afk kill mobs like you always do, if you're constantly getting 5+ mobs on you that sounds like a situational awareness problem. maybe combat is so mind numbingly boring atm that it's causing you to zone out and run into groups of mobs without noticing?

not.. using autofight, it's dumbest 'mechanic' in the game.. it just spams random actions and gets you open to hits more often than you'd manage to command your character no matter how hard you try.. that's autofighting in wurm atm.

 

As for mobs.. I'm in the north... since the spreading of mobs 'fix' mobs just pack elsewhere.. but I used to see 10 mobs on my screen asap I leave deed at least twice a day no matter if they have been wiped once earlier..

some caves and areas easily get 5-15 mobs on you, and yea I don't feel like moving or kiting mobs.. so just sitting where I am and focus to cap... and kill the 10 scorps.. not like it matters the 0.30 damage on the armor ql80(who needs more for pve), who gives a .. fighting is that boring atm.. but loot does not make it a good trade off ... to spam bunch of keys for few meat pieces.

 

Makes sense to give BAMs(big ass mob, term from TERA) or.. as we have 'them' champions.. and have special actions for them instead.. have some fragment or piece of the creature to gather for later on taxidermy if that's planned content.. just little by little.. making links from 1 to another content.. but all mobs... HAVING TO PRESS SPECIFIC KEYS to be efficiently killing them? Ugh... loot is not that good to justify the effort... 

 

I'd see more bt and elemental capped weapons, more often used silver weapons.. etc.. just to do more damage and be 'afk' to compensate.. or 'meta' it for 2h axe and 1-2hit anything for lulz.. and not bother to hit them more needlessly pressing keys like a mad man.. 

 

That's my view of things.. loot is bad.. mobs are bad.. give the whining for excitement players something new to kill or some new buffed variation of existing mobs.. corrupted, berserk mobs.. which require special actions and not just afk-ing at them; look what happened to fishing, who likes that content with all the extra manual work now?

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I feel like imbue and rune change is good. Imagine doing the work to get skill very high and then others can get same stuff. its about time its changed. Would be fun to see poll how many like or dislike the change.

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My problem with the rune/imbue thing is once again you put something in the game that you should not have. leave it in the game for years so players get used to it, spend real money buying it. Make money selling it. Then one day you sound the trumpets and decree this stuff OP and it must be changed. I hope your not surprised a good bit of people are gonna be upset. 

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40 minutes ago, Oblivionnreaver said:

just turn on autofight and afk kill mobs like you always do, if you're constantly getting 5+ mobs on you that sounds like a situational awareness problem. maybe combat is so mind numbingly boring atm that it's causing you to zone out and run into groups of mobs without noticing?

So everyone that doesn't enjoy twitch games is afk auto fighting? Really?

 

Edit: *Or folks with bad ping times are just afk autofighting?.

Edited by SirMuttley

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1 minute ago, SirMuttley said:

So everyone that doesn't enjoy twitch games is afk auto fighting? Really?

well its wurm combat, you ride to a mob, afk until its dead then ride to the next one, that would be considered afk auto fighting yes, weird strawman but you seem to understand what will happen if you turn on autofight after the changes, so you're prepared

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im only interested into the rune/imbue nerf. does that mean that 100QL ores wont be mineable no more? the way it works atm, i can mine 100QL from anywhere 67ql+ vein.. Thats a very nice concept knowing that outmost veins became very rare especially on old clusters.. How will that work for ppl who have 90+ mining anyways? if it will make harder to get 100Ql ores, the nerf it totally unacceptable.. personally i dont care if i average 80Ql pile or 90Ql pile.. i want high end ores only

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13 minutes ago, Oblivionnreaver said:

well its wurm combat, you ride to a mob, afk until its dead then ride to the next one, that would be considered afk auto fighting yes, weird strawman but you seem to understand what will happen if you turn on autofight after the changes, so you're prepared

What is your argument then if this is a strawman? 

 

To me it seems your insulting and challenging folks who want laid back easy combat. Just to clarify, I have no problem if Wurm adds an option so others can seek out that ultimate button mashing challenge. The problem is that those of use who want a laid back combat experience are either going to be forced to be button masher or accept being nerfed with auto-fight. Note, I do combat like this every time: approach mob in aggressive, aim for head and wait for mob to die.

 

It seems pretty clear that Wurm is going nerf people who like laid back combat in order to provide entertainment for those who like combat challenge. This is the core idea that folks are worried about.

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25 minutes ago, Oblivionnreaver said:

well its wurm combat, you ride to a mob, afk until its dead then ride to the next one, that would be considered afk auto fighting yes, weird strawman but you seem to understand what will happen if you turn on autofight after the changes, so you're prepared

I think you are forgetting players who don't autofight, but don't want twitchy/first-person combat shooter either. But then what do I know,  I've only been playing about a year and have no interest in a wurm twitchy shooter type game.

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Just now, Ogare said:

To me it seems your insulting and challenging folks who want laid back easy combat

there will be laid back easy combat, it's called turning on autocombat after the changes. i'm saying there will be 0 difference between now (afking on mobs without auto combat on) and then (afking on mobs with auto combat on) and anyone thinking this will massively impact their gameplay is being overly negative for no reason.

 

As it currently is, you can get massive bonuses in combat by aiming to counter your opponents aims, or blocking in the direction they're aiming. all the things that you think are making it a "twitch game" or "nerfing auto combat fighters" are already in the game and very effective, especially in pvp. they're just not used in pve because pve is so braindead easy that the second you get a LT weapon you can afk almost any mob in the game, and there's no reason to use the tools provided, even if doing so can increase your effective dps by ~40%. I'm one of the people who just afk kills everything in the game and i don't really give a ###### about min maxing combat even though i know how it works from pvp experience, and will probably continue to do so after the changes too. Point is, combat is mindlessly easy, and if giving players the tools to effectively use whats already in the game without hours of testing/reading wu code changes it greatly, than it was a horrendously outdated system with no feedback.

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9 minutes ago, Oblivionnreaver said:

there will be laid back easy combat, it's called turning on autocombat after the changes. i'm saying there will be 0 difference between now (afking on mobs without auto combat on) and then (afking on mobs with auto combat on) and anyone thinking this will massively impact their gameplay is being overly negative for no reason.

 

As it currently is, you can get massive bonuses in combat by aiming to counter your opponents aims, or blocking in the direction they're aiming. all the things that you think are making it a "twitch game" or "nerfing auto combat fighters" are already in the game and very effective, especially in pvp. they're just not used in pve because pve is so braindead easy that the second you get a LT weapon you can afk almost any mob in the game, and there's no reason to use the tools provided, even if doing so can increase your effective dps by ~40%. I'm one of the people who just afk kills everything in the game and i don't really give a ###### about min maxing combat even though i know how it works from pvp experience, and will probably continue to do so after the changes too. Point is, combat is mindlessly easy, and if giving players the tools to effectively use whats already in the game without hours of testing/reading wu code changes it greatly, than it was a horrendously outdated system with no feedback.

Yeah, I have zero comprehension of why there is any complaint here.  No changes really for auto fight people.  Just benefits for those that WANT to be more clicky during a fight.

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12 minutes ago, Oblivionnreaver said:

there will be laid back easy combat, it's called turning on autocombat after the changes. i'm saying there will be 0 difference between now (afking on mobs without auto combat on) and then (afking on mobs with auto combat on) and anyone thinking this will massively impact their gameplay is being overly negative for no reason.

 

As it currently is, you can get massive bonuses in combat by aiming to counter your opponents aims, or blocking in the direction they're aiming. all the things that you think are making it a "twitch game" or "nerfing auto combat fighters" are already in the game and very effective, especially in pvp. they're just not used in pve because pve is so braindead easy that the second you get a LT weapon you can afk almost any mob in the game, and there's no reason to use the tools provided, even if doing so can increase your effective dps by ~40%. I'm one of the people who just afk kills everything in the game and i don't really give a ###### about min maxing combat even though i know how it works from pvp experience, and will probably continue to do so after the changes too. Point is, combat is mindlessly easy, and if giving players the tools to effectively use whats already in the game without hours of testing/reading wu code changes it greatly, than it was a horrendously outdated system with no feedback.

Got it... so autofight *or* twitch game... unlike the medium now. Note that I have never stated I didn't think fighting needed to be addressed, I said I hope they don't turn it into a twitchy number mashing fighting game. I see which side you fall under. Time will tell what the devs do and if the changes increase or decrease enjoyment in the game, so I'll bow out of the convo now.

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