Northern Isles feedback

[Hoonsuit 17]

If only there were some players who love this game and have a proven track record of bringing original player interactive activities/events that require no Dev/staff support. Original events that can be streamed for others to watch. Things that don't involve teaching how to make a house or milk a cow,  but events that bring about fun and or healthy competitions. There are players who want the game to grow and are willing to put in many, many hours to develop such in game events, for others to enjoy. Players who don't wish to become staff themselves because they fear having to "tow the line" or having to put on false airs, but would still like to be rewarded for their efforts. Where oh where can that type of player be found?

 

My opinion is, the new NFI servers would be an ideal location to promote these types players and events. It's a place to show the newest Wurm players what can be accomplished using in game items and functions. Such events would be ideal for promoting player retention as well as bringing in new customers.

 

Thank you

[CistaCista 253]

2 hours ago, Hoonsuit said:

events that bring about fun and or healthy competitions.

 

Yea if only such a thing existed...   😎

[Ecrir 887]

5 hours ago, Hoonsuit said:

If only there were some players who love this game and have a proven track record of bringing original player interactive activities/events that require no Dev/staff support. Original events that can be streamed for others to watch. Things that don't involve teaching how to make a house or milk a cow,  but events that bring about fun and or healthy competitions. There are players who want the game to grow and are willing to put in many, many hours to develop such in game events, for others to enjoy. Players who don't wish to become staff themselves because they fear having to "tow the line" or having to put on false airs, but would still like to be rewarded for their efforts. Where oh where can that type of player be found?

 

My opinion is, the new NFI servers would be an ideal location to promote these types players and events. It's a place to show the newest Wurm players what can be accomplished using in game items and functions. Such events would be ideal for promoting player retention as well as bringing in new customers.

 

Thank you

 

You mean stuff like this?

And yes, I know that's SFI. One of the advantages of the south cluster is that it has such events several times a year at this point. It's a shame the folks up north can't sail over to partake in these events.

Edited December 17, 2020 by Ecrir

[Retrograde 12,013]

3 hours ago, CistaCista said:

 

Yea if only such a thing existed...   😎

This is amazing, we have a special place you can let us know of such events for sharing too! 

 

https://wurm.gg/shoutbox 

 

This helps make sure we don't miss things and can amplify them across social media! 

[Hoonsuit 17]

4 hours ago, CistaCista said:

 

Yea if only such a thing existed...   😎

 

Don't recall saying they didn't exist. Are you saying we don't need more events like this?

 

Edit: Also, not to steal the thunder of this event. I would suggest adding something to make this even better. Not so much a race, but they could also host a "poker run". That is where you set up 5 stations around a big lake. Each station has a "deck of cards". The boats all have to visit each station and pick up one "card". Head to the finish line, time prizes and best poker hand prizes. 

Edited December 17, 2020 by Hoonsuit

[Hoonsuit 17]

1 hour ago, Ecrir said:

 

You mean stuff like this?

 

 

Yes, stuff like that would be better served on NFI.  On SFI there are hardly any new players to take advantage of the imps provided. My idea is events that are more like 'going to the movies" every few weeks IRL. Not a massive get together, but things that a couple/half dozen people can do together.

[TheTrickster 2,284]

43 minutes ago, Hoonsuit said:

Don't recall saying they didn't exist.

 

er... You pretty much did, here.

 

7 hours ago, Hoonsuit said:

If only there were some players who love this game and have a proven track record of bringing original player interactive activities/events that require no Dev/staff support. Original events that can be streamed for others to watch. Things that don't involve teaching how to make a house or milk a cow,  but events that bring about fun and or healthy competitions. There are players who want the game to grow and are willing to put in many, many hours to develop such in game events, for others to enjoy. Players who don't wish to become staff themselves because they fear having to "tow the line" or having to put on false airs, but would still like to be rewarded for their efforts. Where oh where can that type of player be found?

 

Okay, you didn't say it outright, but the hyperbole pretty clearly stated it.

[Hoonsuit 17]

19 minutes ago, TheTrickster said:

 

er... You pretty much did, here.

 

 

Okay, you didn't say it outright, but the hyperbole pretty clearly stated it.

 

Dang, make up my mind will ya. lol

 

My point is, "why buy the cow, when the milk is free". 

I'm of the opinion that those who bring forth good original ideas to the game, should be rewarded. If it was easy to be creative and come up with idea after idea, then everyone would be doing it. That is not the case. The staff here seem to be of the belief that they don't have to buy the cow, but they still want the free milk, because it's good for the game. Well rewards are good for the brainstormers. 

[Retrograde 12,013]

We've actually worked closely with many events that people have put together! We provide amplification, rewards for the event, and other things. 

 

I don't think that direct rewards for those who organise the events has been included in any major aspect, but I'm not opposed to recognising the efforts if it suits the situation. 

 

We also have our valrei entertainment network streamers who produce content and routinely showcase many aspects of the game. 

[Hoonsuit 17]

8 minutes ago, Retrograde said:

 

I don't think that direct rewards for those who organise the events has been included in any major aspect, but I'm not opposed to recognising the efforts if it suits the situation. 

 

 

This is what I've said. You don't give direct rewards to those who organize/come up with events. You give them a thank you if you feel it's deserved. Unless I'm misunderstanding you, then please do explain. Are there any examples of rewards being given directly to event runners for their time and or ideas?  I mean other than comping deeds for streamers.

[Oblivionnreaver 5,174]

do you need a participation trophy for everything? do things because they're fun and its a game, if you need a dev to pat your head and give you a quarter to entice you to make community events thats kinda sad

[Hoonsuit 17]

13 minutes ago, Oblivionnreaver said:

do you need a participation trophy for everything? do things because they're fun and its a game, if you need a dev to pat your head and give you a quarter to entice you to make community events thats kinda sad

 

What's even more sad is people who need to be condescending and attempt to derail a thread.

Edited December 17, 2020 by Hoonsuit

[Retrograde 12,013]

21 minutes ago, Hoonsuit said:

This is what I've said. You don't give direct rewards to those who organize/come up with events. You give them a thank you if you feel it's deserved. Unless I'm misunderstanding you, then please do explain. Are there any examples of rewards being given directly to event runners for their time and or ideas?  I mean other than comping deeds for streamers.

I can't say any of the numerous people I've worked with and supported with events have ever asked for compensation for doing so. There have been many instances where we have done things for recognition, impalongs getting special signs, event creators getting special versions of the event item as a thank you, other various factors

 

I don't think that Remuneration is the reason people put on community events, and I don't think that it encourages the right kind of spirit towards it, but recognition of the work and effort put in is always something we seek to do. 

[Hoonsuit 17]

17 minutes ago, Retrograde said:

I can't say any of the numerous people I've worked with and supported with events have ever asked for compensation for doing so. There have been many instances where we have done things for recognition, impalongs getting special signs, event creators getting special versions of the event item as a thank you, other various factors

 

I don't think that Remuneration is the reason people put on community events, and I don't think that it encourages the right kind of spirit towards it, but recognition of the work and effort put in is always something we seek to do. 

 

Again this equates to, "why buy the cow, if the milk is free". You're not taking advantage of  or weighing all your options. You're simply saying this is how we're going to do things, and forget about anyone who may think differently than you. 

 

The people putting on or coming up with events shouldn't have to ask for compensation, it should be offered. If they choose not to accept it, then fine. If they choose to accept it, then that is fine also. You're not giving that option. This is removing some creative players incentive, to come up with ideas that could benefit this game.

 

Edited December 17, 2020 by Hoonsuit

[Retrograde 12,013]

I think what I'm saying is that we're not looking to reward people with silver or premium for coming up with event ideas, however we're always open to them and have worked with many event creators in the past and have made sure to recognise their efforts, and will continue to do so. 

 

 

[Retrograde 12,013]

I am all for creative and engaging events, and I know the sheer amount of work and logistics behind it. If anyone would like to talk about events, support and logistics, feel free to shoot me a DM and we'll chat

[RainRain 591]

On 12/15/2020 at 10:57 PM, Retrograde said:

You are absolutely correct in many aspects here, so I'd like to share with you our thoughts and feedback too! 

-fix the inner works of devs/moderations aka pay an actual dev to help with the updates vs a pr guy (simply streaming for “PR purposes”, then Promoting your own personal content isn’t cool in my eyes) 

We have multiple paid developers working on the game, not just me! (As for promoting personal content I'm not sure what you mean, as I've tried to avoid mixing the two beyond mentioning that it happens)

 

 

Last time you said they were mostly part-time contracted, as in the game has no active, daily developers that work on the game consistently- nobody is paid fulltime.

This much is obvious since different developers seem to focus on very specific things and corners of the game, and the game is updated at a glacial pace- something that wasn't true in the past back when the game had legitimate full-time workers, and constant new updates that usually brought in new content.

 

A pace of one update per month of which the update might not even add new content and be mostly bugfixes is utterly unacceptable. I hate to sound entitled here but there is no way a game that needs so much work to be appealing to the broader audience like wurm is going to get any better from a pace like that- especially on the pvp side of things where critical changes are needed ASAP since the steam launch barely tweaked anything in the inherently flawed pvp setup.

Since not everyone else has seen the thread, I want to bring this post to spotlight. Sindusk, an ex-dev of this game, singlehandedly revamped the entirety of the combat system in a pretty interesting and unique way, over the course of less than three weeks. Not everyone knows how combat works, but he completely re-did the flow of how things are calculated, removed CR as a stat (CR is literally the main stat in combat that determines so many things it's basically half of combat itself). A single dedicated developer can do this; and while I don't think it's fair to place the expectations on the dev team- the fact is that since the steam launch, this game has gotten no significant overhauls or upgrades despite several areas of the game desperately needing one, and the announcements for future ones have been vague and scarce of most details- which i can only assume is a result of a system that has not been fully explored, thought out, and much less even started.

 

I don't blame the developers for this because I understand that almost all of you work a real job in addition to your wurm job (dark in particular, brave lad)- this is why my criticism has narrowed itself down from "the devs are bad" to "management is bad because there aren't any dedicated fulltime devs". It's also not easy deciding what to do either, but indecision and refusal to take the game with a solid grip and lead it forward has caused too many issues  By this, i'm specifically referring to the hesitation on the dev's side to shut down old servers (and im not even talking about chaos here, but elevation in specific; though something needs to be done about chaos too).

That's not to say you guys have been completely blame free of things (nor am i saying the community is either; i wouldn't want to mess with the bundle of idiots that is the pvp community either hahaha, like i said dark is a brave lad). I think as a devs (and you in specific, retro,) your biggest failings are communication. To clarify what I mean, i'll use the links/channeling/sacrifice stuff as example.

Links were abruptly and suddenly nerfed after literally decades of them being the go-to method to train channeling. I want to stress that I don't disagree with then nerf; I think it was stupid that you could buy alts to make grinding faster. The problem here is that this method was essentially THE main way for all priests to grind; I refuse to believe the developers didn't know this unless none of them ever have grinded up channeling as a skill to 60/70+. It was the standard practice for SFI, for the entire Epic cluster, and it was the same in NFI. The mistake here was not releasing this change as part of launching the server, as now many people were left with useless alts they no longer needed, and players were punished for not even knowing what they were doing was wrong. However, during this fiasco there was mention of an exploit- and the entire community went crazy because they thought people were bug abusing to hit 90 channeling. Which wasn't the case, at all. The bug was there but few (if any) people were caught using it, and nobody had grinding to any particularly weird outlier of channeling by that time. But all this time, while the forums were raging and discord was active, nobody said a damned word to clarify the situation. Retro is specific literally would post in these threads to clarify OTHER issues, but never make a declaring statement until weeks after the issue had began to die down that there was no conclusive evidence anyone abused the bug to hit extremely high channeling. I can't fathom why this would happen; I had to ping him on discord just to pry the information out of him, and then myself try to clarify the issue to people who were screaming around.

 

Then, the sacrifice change came around - I particularly like this one since I think the sacrifice change idea almost completely came from a suggestion I talked with Ost about on discord (which makes me wonder how often suggestion threads are even looked at compared to people on discord, but w/e). Ost made an attempt to have a good discussion about it all, which I very much appreciate- but I feel like the  way this situation ended went poorly. There wasn't much 'discussion' with the devs as much as there was 'telling your concerns to the devs', after which the curtain was called and the devs said "Thanks for your complaints, we'll try to factor them into the change when we release it"- a big thing was that many people didn't want the change at all, and yet no reason for why they would proceed to go along with it was mentioned. This was the correct decision to make given how good the system turned out after the patch for it, but the flaw is mainly the complete lack of communication regarding decisionmaking. As a side complain; I hate how long it took for the changes to be implemented despite the fact that the changes were announced basically the same day the initial rework was released- why did it take so long to make such minor changes? Is it because the devs want to focus on monthly changes rather than spotty smaller ones? Is it because they stumbled into issues? Who knows- just explain!! Also because i'd love to @Madnath- how about that entire fatigue system eh?

 

I could keep going on and on, because I frankly love this game and the amount of issues it has frustrates me to no end- especially those made by the staff because they could be fixed so easily- but i'm petered out. I'm still here months after basically quitting this game because I still deeply wish this game was better (and i think the same goes for everyone else out there who barely logs in but still talks to the community). I can't say 'hope', because at this point I don't have much hope, but damn do I want to be proven wrong.

 

 

If I had to boil down my suggestions from this word wall, here's the takeway

1. Hire a fulltime, paid developer who manages the game and consistently works on churning out updates. These updates don't need to be massive, they can be QoL too (like come on how hard is this to implement? it'd make such a nice difference and take zero effort). As long as it reminds us that hey, yeah devs are working on this game and breathing life into it.

2. Re-manage your community skills. Organize things better, and try to give a sense of periodic deadlines; Alongside 1, you could change your dev patterns a bit. You could try and release a major patch once per month (major meaning tweaking subsystems, small additions and changes- perfect for 'reworking' old systems that direly need a rework such as combat, meditation and religion). with one or two small patches between (of which can be nothing but bugfixes if people truly want). You could organize a trello to publically track what you're looking at changing and provide insight into how things are going internally.

3. Develop a more solid vision for the game. One of the flaws I think with overall changes in this game is that there is no consistency in what this game should 'feel' like to play in the long run. There's no vision for how pvp should work (instead we just try new iterations constantly of old, broken down systems), and there's not much of a vision for PvE besides trying to establish a sense of community (which is good, but that won't bring in many new players).

3. FOCUS ON THE NEW PLAYER EXPERIENCE. Too much of this game's feedback comes from veterans who are used to broken down systems and bugs as part of their daily wurm gameplay. Create polls asking for feedback, encourage new players to sign up on the forums for small benefits and create more events to encourage new players to interact with both new and old servers, as well as pvp servers. All of the recent events have focused on SFI which feels extremely backwards.

 

And then, AFTER all of all that- after you organize yourselves and focus on fixing the fundamental issues of this game, then begin to reach out, market, and advertise.

[RainRain 591]

One more post to say one small thing: One of the things that was said (by you, retro) last time there was a lot of complaining about the lack of communication was that you simply had nothing to communicate.

 

I understand that perspective, but that's not an answer. You aren't just a mouthpiece for the developers to release information- if the community at large is getting antsy about things and you don't know how development progress is going, then it's your imperative to poke a developer to get a gist of where they are in whatever project they have assigned to them.

 

I am specifically referring to the first time Defiance had huge issues with mob spawns (they do again btw, people just gave up on complaining because it takes months to fix). A bunch of us begged for information and got told that you just simply didn't have any information. Then, one of us directly went to a developer and got told it would be fixed in the next patch which was coming in a couple of days. This to me isn't you having a lack of information, it's you not going ahead and trying to get that information to answer complaints with.

also, if theres any dev that i think should be modeled after, it's probably darklords. I know the guy works a taxing job and often can't deliver, but he absolutely goes out of his way to try and release the best experience, spends time talking to players about the issues they come across, and himself has experience with the system he's trying to fix. I just think the game demands more than he's able to address with the time he can spare.

Edited December 17, 2020 by RainRain

[Jore 338]

35 minutes ago, RainRain said:

If I had to boil down my suggestions from this word wall, here's the takeway

1. Hire a fulltime, paid developer who manages the game and consistently works on churning out updates. These updates don't need to be massive, they can be QoL too (like come on how hard is this to implement? it'd make such a nice difference and take zero effort). As long as it reminds us that hey, yeah devs are working on this game and breathing life into it.

2. Re-manage your community skills. Organize things better, and try to give a sense of periodic deadlines; Alongside 1, you could change your dev patterns a bit. You could try and release a major patch once per month (major meaning tweaking subsystems, small additions and changes- perfect for 'reworking' old systems that direly need a rework such as combat, meditation and religion). with one or two small patches between (of which can be nothing but bugfixes if people truly want). You could organize a trello to publically track what you're looking at changing and provide insight into how things are going internally.

3. Develop a more solid vision for the game. One of the flaws I think with overall changes in this game is that there is no consistency in what this game should 'feel' like to play in the long run. There's no vision for how pvp should work (instead we just try new iterations constantly of old, broken down systems), and there's not much of a vision for PvE besides trying to establish a sense of community (which is good, but that won't bring in many new players).

4. FOCUS ON THE NEW PLAYER EXPERIENCE. Too much of this game's feedback comes from veterans who are used to broken down systems and bugs as part of their daily wurm gameplay. Create polls asking for feedback, encourage new players to sign up on the forums for small benefits and create more events to encourage new players to interact with both new and old servers, as well as pvp servers. All of the recent events have focused on SFI which feels extremely backwards.

 

And then, AFTER all of all that- after you organize yourselves and focus on fixing the fundamental issues of this game, then begin to reach out, market, and advertise.

 

7 minutes ago, RainRain said:

One more post to say one small thing: One of the things that was said (by you, retro) last time there was a lot of complaining about the lack of communication was that you simply had nothing to communicate.

 

I understand that perspective, but that's not an answer. You aren't just a mouthpiece for the developers to release information- if the community at large is getting antsy about things and you don't know how development progress is going, then it's you imperative to poke a developer to get a gist of where they are in whatever project they have assigned to them.

 

I am specifically referring to the first time Defiance had huge issues with mob spawns (they do again btw, people just gave up on complaining because it takes months to fix). A bunch of us begged for information and got told that you just simply didn't have any information. Then, one of us directly went to a developer and got told it would be fixed in the next patch which was coming in a couple of days. This to me isn't you having a lack of information, it's you not going ahead and trying to get that information to answer complaints with.

 

Preach

 

Great suggestions and points raised in a perfect manner, would be so happy to see even one of these taken to heart. 

[Sindusk 2,448]

Every response seems to indicate "no worries everything will be fine," yet there appears to be no substance to any of it.

 

On 12/15/2020 at 5:08 AM, Retrograde said:

There is little to no moonmetal on the northern isles, not enough for any major viable advantage, maybe a trinket but definitely not a have and have nots vibe.

 

How much is "little to no" moon metal? Because in terms of seryll rings, a single 1kg lump provides a lot of seryll rings. Give some actual numbers here instead of a vague, meaningless amount.

 

Beyond that, the statement "little to no" is misleading or false itself since it's impossible for there to be "no" moon metal. The correct statement, if true, is "there is little moonmetal on the northern isles."

 

On 12/15/2020 at 5:08 AM, Retrograde said:

Could we have addressed bugs faster? Absolutely, but please bear in mind there was a LOT going on, and a lot of processes and planning and things happening that weren't so visible.

 

Yeah? What's this "LOT" going on? Because we haven't heard anything for months and haven't gotten any significant content since it launched on steam half a year ago. If you are working on combat, why are we not hearing anything about it? Where did VI every 2 weeks go, showing off upcoming features?

 

If there's actual work being done, show it in progress. Give updates on what's happening. This whole "oh we can't talk about it because it's not done yet" mindset is absolute garbage and causing people to leave the game thinking it's no longer getting content. Myself included. This feels like a massive deception to get people to pay sub with empty promises.

 

On 12/15/2020 at 5:08 AM, Retrograde said:

We're beyond thrilled with the launch of NFI, and although there will always be power players who can grind fast and hard, the isles are growing very organically, it's just the nature of growth compared to years past is different.

 

Really? They're "growing very organically?" Do you have some data for that? Everything that's public seems to imply that it's declining very organically, back to the few hundred total players that have been playing the game since the very start. I'd love to see the counter argument for how the game is growing right now. Is there some metric that we cannot see that shows growth? If so, please share.

 

On 12/15/2020 at 10:57 PM, Retrograde said:

-update the game more consistently 

Monthly updates are the consistent schedule we are working on, this doesn't mean new content being added every month, but that we work on a month to month basis for bugfixes, tweaks, changes and additions. These usually happen around the end of the month. They've been light on content as we prepare for our roadmap plans in 2021 however. 

 

Monthly? The last patch was November 9th and today is December 17th. What this might look to you is that there's other work going on behind the scenes. What this looks like to the players is that nothing is happening for an entire month.

 

On 12/15/2020 at 10:57 PM, Retrograde said:

-fix the inner works of devs/moderations aka pay an actual dev to help with the updates vs a pr guy (simply streaming for “PR purposes”, then Promoting your own personal content isn’t cool in my eyes) 

We have multiple paid developers working on the game, not just me! (As for promoting personal content I'm not sure what you mean, as I've tried to avoid mixing the two beyond mentioning that it happens)

 

It doesn't feel that way. The only significant changes since the start of the Northern Freedom Isles to now has been the pending favor rework (a few days of development), the halloween event (a week or so of development), changes to Defiance such as supply depots and HotA rework (a few weeks of development), and the migration to a new server host (unknown time).

 

If there's multiple paid developers working on the game, what have they been working on? With such a huge influx of players from the Steam launch, why does it feel like development pace has slowed down instead?

 

It's time to drop this nonsense "work behind the scenes and show nothing until it's done" mentality, because the gaming industry has moved far past that. As a result, all the players who tried the game during the Steam launch are moving far past this game. If you're working on something, tell us about it, give us details, and actually settle concerns instead of continuing to provide false promises.

[Omar 479]

Who wants to Crowdfund to buy Codeclub? :DD

Edited December 18, 2020 by Omar

[elentari 2,660]

16 hours ago, Sindusk said:

Every response seems to indicate "no worries everything will be fine," yet there appears to be no substance to any of it.

 

On 12/15/2020 at 12:08 PM, Retrograde said:

There is little to no moonmetal on the northern isles, not enough for any major viable advantage, maybe a trinket but definitely not a have and have nots vibe.

 

How much is "little to no" moon metal? Because in terms of seryll rings, a single 1kg lump provides a lot of seryll rings. Give some actual numbers here instead of a vague, meaningless amount.

 

Beyond that, the statement "little to no" is misleading or false itself since it's impossible for there to be "no" moon metal. The correct statement, if true, is "there is little moonmetal on the northern isles."

 

On 12/15/2020 at 12:08 PM, Retrograde said:

Could we have addressed bugs faster? Absolutely, but please bear in mind there was a LOT going on, and a lot of processes and planning and things happening that weren't so visible.

 

Yeah? What's this "LOT" going on? Because we haven't heard anything for months and haven't gotten any significant content since it launched on steam half a year ago. If you are working on combat, why are we not hearing anything about it? Where did VI every 2 weeks go, showing off upcoming features?

 

If there's actual work being done, show it in progress. Give updates on what's happening. This whole "oh we can't talk about it because it's not done yet" mindset is absolute garbage and causing people to leave the game thinking it's no longer getting content. Myself included. This feels like a massive deception to get people to pay sub with empty promises.

 

On 12/15/2020 at 12:08 PM, Retrograde said:

We're beyond thrilled with the launch of NFI, and although there will always be power players who can grind fast and hard, the isles are growing very organically, it's just the nature of growth compared to years past is different.

 

Really? They're "growing very organically?" Do you have some data for that? Everything that's public seems to imply that it's declining very organically, back to the few hundred total players that have been playing the game since the very start. I'd love to see the counter argument for how the game is growing right now. Is there some metric that we cannot see that shows growth? If so, please share.

 

On 12/16/2020 at 5:57 AM, Retrograde said:

-update the game more consistently 

Monthly updates are the consistent schedule we are working on, this doesn't mean new content being added every month, but that we work on a month to month basis for bugfixes, tweaks, changes and additions. These usually happen around the end of the month. They've been light on content as we prepare for our roadmap plans in 2021 however. 

 

Monthly? The last patch was November 9th and today is December 17th. What this might look to you is that there's other work going on behind the scenes. What this looks like to the players is that nothing is happening for an entire month.

 

On 12/16/2020 at 5:57 AM, Retrograde said:

-fix the inner works of devs/moderations aka pay an actual dev to help with the updates vs a pr guy (simply streaming for “PR purposes”, then Promoting your own personal content isn’t cool in my eyes) 

We have multiple paid developers working on the game, not just me! (As for promoting personal content I'm not sure what you mean, as I've tried to avoid mixing the two beyond mentioning that it happens)

 

It doesn't feel that way. The only significant changes since the start of the Northern Freedom Isles to now has been the pending favor rework (a few days of development), the halloween event (a week or so of development), changes to Defiance such as supply depots and HotA rework (a few weeks of development), and the migration to a new server host (unknown time).

 

If there's multiple paid developers working on the game, what have they been working on? With such a huge influx of players from the Steam launch, why does it feel like development pace has slowed down instead?

 

It's time to drop this nonsense "work behind the scenes and show nothing until it's done" mentality, because the gaming industry has moved far past that. As a result, all the players who tried the game during the Steam launch are moving far past this game. If you're working on something, tell us about it, give us details, and actually settle concerns instead of continuing to provide false promises.

 

I think one of the main issues with Wurm keeps being the lack of communication and transparency.

 

Every few months or so, retro and/or the team tries being transparent and engaging with the community which everybody loves by the way, we are happy when you guys talk to us and give us info about what's going down in Wurm, plans, updates, etc., BUT...

 

Suddenly there's a 6 month blackout of info with just the occasional bugfix or rebalancing for minor systems or mechanics.

 

We have no idea what's being worked on, what takes priority, when X system will be fixed, when Y system will be patched or updated, etc.

 

There are so many old bugs in wurm at this point that haven't been fixed in years and we kindly refer to them as "wogic" but honestly the lack of information and updates is what at the moment is keeping me from wanting to play. I want to know plans, I want to have a direction, I want to have confidence and faith in the team so I know that when I log into Wurm I won't be getting a message that starts with : " After so many years together, we're sorry to say this is the end... < insert obligatory nostalgic and sad text appreciating the entire playerbase for their support, yada yada> " I've seen in so many games by now.

 

Is pvp getting a bif update? Why do we have Epic around? Really, please answer why?

 

Do new players that start on Epic get a warning that any skillgain there WILL NOT transfer to freedom or NFI? That all their worked is locked there?

 

Will missions be updated to something more interesting? Will we be  getting new skills like cartography?

 

< Note > There are about 100 posts for cartography by now , some 7 years old that want that skill in game. I am curious, how many times does a thing has to be suggested by hundreds of players before it becomes an in game feature? There's clearly a lot of support for it. Why no answer to it? At least a plain old "NO! We don't have the resources for it right now, but we want it in the future" will suffice.

 

On that idea I would like to know if there is ANY system in place or at least defined to see where suggestions go? Most seem to be entirely ignored by the staff.

 

Some suggestions have been so well thought out and designed that half the design work has been done by players, all that's left is to actually code it.

Example : Look up Alchemy and Natural Substances suggestions in the Suggestions part. Some are amazing! And totally ignored.

 

I get it we have an overworked team, that is mostly volunteer staff and some only part time devs. I am not indifferent to that. But at least give us a direction with the current resources you got.

 

Having a roadmap isn't just a PR approach to your customers. A roadmap is an important beacon for the future. It shows where you are right now and where do you want to go.

Even something as basic as "We want to solve the issues with animals on top of mountains and slopes by the end of June 2021" ..... is a trillion times better than silence. Even if you don't manage to solve it, but at least update us with that problems you've encountered with updating the pathing conditions of animals, at least it's something.

 

Again, every time you earn brownie points with the community for transparency and communication of clear goals and plans, you lose it when we have a 6 month period of no updates, no significant content, no big announcements , nothing.

 

Show us and talk to us that you're fighting the big fight and we'll support you.

 

But keep staying silent about important issues in Wurm and don't ever again wonder why, as Sindusk said "population seems to shrink organically".

Edited December 18, 2020 by elentari

[RainRain 591]

prediction: there will not be a response to these posts again, or if there is they will conveniently ignore most issues and respond to a very small aspect

[Retrograde 12,013]

There's a lot to unpack here, let's see

 

On 12/18/2020 at 11:09 AM, Sindusk said:

Every response seems to indicate "no worries everything will be fine," yet there appears to be no substance to any of it.

 

 

How much is "little to no" moon metal? Because in terms of seryll rings, a single 1kg lump provides a lot of seryll rings. Give some actual numbers here instead of a vague, meaningless amount.

 

Beyond that, the statement "little to no" is misleading or false itself since it's impossible for there to be "no" moon metal. The correct statement, if true, is "there is little moonmetal on the northern isles."

In that case, correct, there is little moonmetal on the northern isles. I'm not aware of the exact numbers but it will also be returning

 

Yeah? What's this "LOT" going on? Because we haven't heard anything for months and haven't gotten any significant content since it launched on steam half a year ago. If you are working on combat, why are we not hearing anything about it? Where did VI every 2 weeks go, showing off upcoming features?

Server infrastructure issues, many areas where we had to refactor and rewrite old systems to address issues coming up (such as creature movement)

If there's actual work being done, show it in progress. Give updates on what's happening. This whole "oh we can't talk about it because it's not done yet" mindset is absolute garbage and causing people to leave the game thinking it's no longer getting content. Myself included. This feels like a massive deception to get people to pay sub with empty promises.

Showing off what we've been working on is something I want to do more of, I want to see more of this in the new year too, it's a goal we all have!

 

Really? They're "growing very organically?" Do you have some data for that? Everything that's public seems to imply that it's declining very organically, back to the few hundred total players that have been playing the game since the very start. I'd love to see the counter argument for how the game is growing right now. Is there some metric that we cannot see that shows growth? If so, please share.

By growing organically I do not mean in terms of player growth, Yes there are high skilled accounts, particularly in the hands of established veteran players who know the best tactics with grinding, but I am referring to skill and infrastructure growth, it's not on the same level of supply/demand as the SFI and thus is a very different landscape

 

Monthly? The last patch was November 9th and today is December 17th. What this might look to you is that there's other work going on behind the scenes. What this looks like to the players is that nothing is happening for an entire month.

 

 

It doesn't feel that way. The only significant changes since the start of the Northern Freedom Isles to now has been the pending favor rework (a few days of development), the halloween event (a week or so of development), changes to Defiance such as supply depots and HotA rework (a few weeks of development), and the migration to a new server host (unknown time).

 

If there's multiple paid developers working on the game, what have they been working on? With such a huge influx of players from the Steam launch, why does it feel like development pace has slowed down instead?

 

It's time to drop this nonsense "work behind the scenes and show nothing until it's done" mentality, because the gaming industry has moved far past that. As a result, all the players who tried the game during the Steam launch are moving far past this game. If you're working on something, tell us about it, give us details, and actually settle concerns instead of continuing to provide false promises.

I do agree, and one thing I want to work more on, it's a balance of making sure what is shown has enough progress to provide deliverable timeframes.

The past three rounds of PvP discussion are part of that, including players in the process rather than just dumping it on them, our roadmap for 2021 will be picking up speed in the new year and I hope we will be able to showcase those as soon as possible. 

 

 

5 hours ago, RainRain said:

prediction: there will not be a response to these posts again, or if there is they will conveniently ignore most issues and respond to a very small aspect

Some questions are based around the same genre "what are you working on?" 

 

We've outlined what's in the Roadmap, and as we progress down that we should absolutely be showing what it is and how we're progressing in it. 

 

Other questions about various suggestions are more tricky, and involve a much longer discussion than one or two sentences.

 

15 hours ago, elentari said:

< Note > There are about 100 posts for cartography by now , some 7 years old that want that skill in game. I am curious, how many times does a thing has to be suggested by hundreds of players before it becomes an in game feature? There's clearly a lot of support for it. Why no answer to it? At least a plain old "NO! We don't have the resources for it right now, but we want it in the future" will suffice.

 

The amount of people who want it, and how long it's been suggested doesn't always mesh well with where the game is at, what the focus is, and what our goals are too. 

 

Exploration is one of the key areas of our focus of 2021, as we go over that we will pull suggestions regarding exploration, cartography and various other ideas over the years into a brainstorming session to ensure we can make it work. 

 

15 hours ago, elentari said:

On that idea I would like to know if there is ANY system in place or at least defined to see where suggestions go? Most seem to be entirely ignored by the staff.

 

Some suggestions have been so well thought out and designed that half the design work has been done by players, all that's left is to actually code it.

Example : Look up Alchemy and Natural Substances suggestions in the Suggestions part. Some are amazing! And totally ignored.

Suggestions aren't things to take and slot in, they're ideas we can use when working on various projects. 

 

I'd also like to remind you that Tich wrote the suggestion for cooking in 2008, and someone said the exact same thing "the design work is done, all that's left is to actually code it" and it took her 10-12 months to do the coding work. 

 

I would love to work more with suggestions, but they don't always prove to be "oh just do the coding" or "its a five minute change" There's a lot of other factors to take in, and often can require a lot of backtracking to identify where it might break something else

 

 

TL;DR

Can we do more? Yes, and we will work on that

Can I do more? Absolutely, and I will continue to do my best to improve on the areas raised. 

[Sindusk 2,448]

"We'll be doing more soon" has been the response since the servers launched. It's getting tiresome.

 

On Things Current was made 3 months ago.

 

On 9/23/2020 at 8:46 PM, Samool said:

Imbues
Pending rebalance.

 

14 slayings between NFI and Defiance with a total of 895 total slayers meaning there is 895 bloods out there which are still completely unable to be used. Still pending after 3 months?

 

On 9/23/2020 at 8:46 PM, Samool said:

Source fountains
We’re working on changing this mechanic a bit before reintroducing it to the new servers, mostly to avoid the claiming of those as has happened on other servers.

 

Still not available. Do you even have a rough idea on how to solve that problem or are they just going to be dumped into the server at some point like missions were?

 

On 9/23/2020 at 8:46 PM, Samool said:

Rifts and runes
Rifts on the new servers will appear in a couple months - we feel the servers are not developed enough for those yet, and we would like to balance them further beforehand.

 

Still not enabled on the new servers, blocking important journal goals from being achieved. A giant slap in the face to those who aim to progress through the journal. Are the servers not developed enough for those... after half a year?

 

The response given was just another attempt to buy more time. "Wait until next year." No, if you have something done, you should be able to show it or talk about it right now.