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jaquari

Fast travel to market places

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Hello Wurmians and Wurm Team,

 

I've been lately at Freedom Market on independence and this place looks deserted, a shadow of former glory of this place. Most of traders leaved as the business is not profitable, and this made me think how to revive such places and also put more live in trading and coin flow on Wurm servers. Problem is - distance. If there would be some kind of portal or other teleportation system into such places as Freedom Market it would help traders to sell their products and other to buy the stuff they need as enchanted tools etc.

Obviously it would require some kind of restrictions - when traveled by such teleportation/portal to Market Place you could not leave the Market deed (punishable by guards or just a warning and teleport back to the Market token when trying to leave the Market borders.

There could be portals that could be build like those that give possibility to travel to epic servers, or just teleportation using karma points.

When it would be a some kind of portal the usage should be limited (maybe portal would need to recharge to enable to travel again - returning to the source portal should be available always without restriction).

Also Kingdom could take some kind of tax of the trader profit to maintain the Markets, some like 5% of the price of the selled item. This would give kingdom more coins to give to traders enabling the possibility to buy more stuff from new players and the circle would close.

 

This is just a seed of a idea but maybe in some form it would be acceptable and maybe this way the trade would blossom on Wurm.

 

Regards

Jaquari

 

Edited by jaquari

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Well i advise against it, since take away some roleplaying as earning it. If they do adds teleport or fast travel to market place, should cost some coins to do it then. Otherwise i would say no! I can understand if your commit crimes or got a flag on your head, then should have though about that in the first place. Either kill the guards or look for another market stall out in the open roads, many make one yourself?

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i am against any form of easy teleportation, even with a fee attached to it would mean that travelling is easier for some then others.

-1

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New Map Icon for Markets: How about a new icon on the map in game that turns on or off deed markers that have been labeled as markets.

A market deed could then add their one marker to the map, which shows the locations of their deed.  It would show up when you had the "Market Deed" filter on.

Then at least as players would be able to see where the markets are and can travel to them.    I would also auto delete the marker if the deed gets disbanded along with if there is no market npc.  Why have a marker on a market map if there is no market to go to, after all.

 

-------------------
I think portals would speed things up yes but if you are going through a portal to buy objects, then you would want to take your cart or wagon + animals along with you, so that you have your ride and storage.

Otherwise if just the character goes through the portal then you can't really buy that much or carry that much.  Which might cut down on sells.

 

If you want a portal system that speeds up travel and might undo the work of highway systems then maybe a portal system like the MMO Game Perfect World.

Teleport Map: In that game, all of the places you can teleport to are on a "Teleport Map"  in the game, you find a teleport NPC to speak to.   Then the teleport map would open up and you could selete a point to teleport to.  BTW - You would of had to of travelled to that location and talked to the teleport NPC first before you could teleport to that point.  So it was not like you could travel everywhere right away. You did have to explore the world first.  Also the teleport would cost a certain amount of money.  The further away you teleported, the more money it cost.

You could have a teleport portal that a village mayor could create.  When someone goes to a deed with the teleport portal, that place would get activated on their teleportation map.  Then they could pay a certain amount of money to travel to that portal from another deeds teleportation portal. They would have to travel and find the teleport portal first though so people would still need to travel the map, like in Perfect World.  You could even set a limit for how many times a person can teleport in a day or even a week to cut down on super fast travel

 

I take back what I said about a teleport system.  I just went and play the game Perfect World that I had fond memories of and yeah, it does not hold a candle to wurm.  Teleportation is a bad idea for wurm.  It would ruin the exploration. Even if it can be annoying sometimes trying to get back.  Just got to learn patience.  The main skill that I have trouble with.

Edited by Zexos

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Having to travel over long distances are one of the appeals of Wurm for me. It's not fun, but it facilitates "local artisans" and such.

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i boat past peoples places and nearly see the traders hidden , out backs to the path i obviously am driving past at and wonder why hide someone u want a guy to buy off is hidden to the only path someone will go past ,seems dumb anyway, i like the idea of a payed boat ride from every server like a bus to the 1 seller town back n forth were everyone sells there stuff and puts there trader seems smart thing todo , and id enjoy the ride there as well , im against tele port crap anything not real actually

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I will be protecting my teleportation idea, everyone tell it is not real and so, but the portals and teleportation exist in Wurm so please do not hate me for such proposition.

This is a game where magic exist, where you can bless, enchant, also teleport to village you have karma points to do some hocus pocus.

 

Traveling is fine, but when someone has his place at end of a map, where travel to market place would take him many hours this makes those market places to quickly become empty.

The idea is to have some kind of fast travel and return. This can be a dragon taxi if you want ;)

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On 12/7/2020 at 2:05 PM, jaquari said:

I will be protecting my teleportation idea, everyone tell it is not real and so, but the portals and teleportation exist in Wurm so please do not hate me for such proposition.

This is a game where magic exist, where you can bless, enchant, also teleport to village you have karma points to do some hocus pocus.

 

Traveling is fine, but when someone has his place at end of a map, where travel to market place would take him many hours this makes those market places to quickly become empty.

The idea is to have some kind of fast travel and return. This can be a dragon taxi if you want ;)

I understand your idea, but it has no place in Wurm.

Living this far from civilization if a players choice. They have their own benefits doing so.

In Wurm travelling is a very important part of the game. This is the same reason why good horses are so expensive (on freedom).

The second important part of Wurm is that everything is to be player made. If that market does not work, then perhaps the idea needs working on.

 

Not to mention: A market one can just teleport to is not exactly going to do much good for your local crafter.

Mailboxes already do this in a sense and it pushes the game towards a high ql standard much faster.

 

I feel that we should avoid pushing the game in this direction any further.

-1 for your idea.

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It doesn't surprise me that it's rather deserted now. Back in the day it was the central location on that server and there weren't any other servers around. These days the borders of a server are far easier to reach for way more people, thus it's now in a terrible location for a market.

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Maybe the site itself should be reworked.  If there are some still some active merchants than recreate a smaller market in its place and perhaps build an inn with free beds and kitchen.  That way it won't look as deserted (depending on whether they are in a bus or a sportscar 3 people can make the vehicle seem empty or full) and there would still be a reason for people to visit for a while.    Maybe the devs could sub-contract a remodel to experienced Wurm builders.

 

Landlocked markets towards the centre of servers are really not in in a good location to thrive.  Also, mail and wagoner systems have brought online shopping to Wurm, which is always hard on physical shopfronts.

 

If merchants could act as wagoner agents, I think they would see more use, but then how would those who have purchased contracts for both wagoners and merchants be compensated?

 

I travel more by water than by land, and have seen small markets that easily visible from the water, but bigger markets are generally behind walls and such so while they look great from the ground, are highly missable by boat.  Shop signs clearly visible from the water would go a long way to triggering the instinct to stop for a look around.

 

 

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Basically this suggestion is just asking for an Auction House in a more convoluted form.

 

Which i fully support since, immersion aside, Wurm as a game does not respect players time in general.

 

Time to enter 2020/2021 and get on the AH bandwagon like pretty much every other mmo out there.

 

Hell even Ultima Online which is ancient by now has an AH. But wurm has to be the different special child in the class cause "muh immersion". Yeah. Immersive seeing empty trade stalls and decaying lamps. Immersive seeing absurd prices for some items while the actual selling player is offline and you can't make a deal. Very immersive indeed.

 

19 hours ago, GroeneAppel said:

In Wurm travelling is a very important part of the game. This is the same reason why good horses are so expensive (on freedom).

The second important part of Wurm is that everything is to be player made. If that market does not work, then perhaps the idea needs working on.

 

Yes traveling is important I agree. But it should never be forced. If someone has limited time to play, not everyone has time to spare going to and fro marketplaces, just to check prices. 

 

And by the way, Which part of an Auction House isn't player made? All the prices are player made. All the items are player made. All deals are player made.

 

The devs would only provide the code. The rest is up to the players.

 

I said it in the past and I'll say it again. The only people who are against the AH are the greedy bunch who want to sell their items as much as possible and would loathe the idea of prices dropping due to having more competition on the market. The only people against the AH are that small vocal minority which is really less than 1% of players that have the time to roam around and check 50 merchants.

 

Not all of us have that time or inclination. An AH at least gives you an idea what's on the market. Local merchants , medieval style do not help anyone except greedy people wanting to take advantage of new players not knowing the prices of things.

On 12/5/2020 at 8:40 PM, John said:

Having to travel over long distances are one of the appeals of Wurm for me. It's not fun, but it facilitates "local artisans" and such.

 

It's good that it's fun for you (no sarcam implied). But what is fun for you should NOT be mandatory for everyone.

 

Wurm states it's an RPG yet speaking as a long time player, It really is very restrictive in some mechanics and there is no RP in it.

 

The very concept of an Auction House is simply the basic idea of a marketplace really.

 

A marketplace is a location where traders meet not just to get a higher customer base but also it standardizes prices in the long term. If I sell a leather coat for 50 Euros and the other merchant near me sells it for 500 EUros and it's the same leather coat, no one will buy his. In time prices will standardize to something like 100 Euros so the poor bugger can make a living as well.

 

The lack of an AH simply benefits the few, not the many.

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1 hour ago, elentari said:

Yes traveling is important I agree. But it should never be forced. If someone has limited time to play, not everyone has time to spare going to and fro marketplaces, just to check prices. 

If somoene has limited time to play and he made the concious choice to live on the edge of the map, then he's not exactly a smart player if he has a constant need to visit the market far away.

Your choices have consequences and in most cases said travel can be avoided anyway through the use of mailboxes. Half the reason these marketplaces do so horribly is due to the mailboxes being commonplace. Why travel at all when the tool you want can appear in a mailbox within 10 minutes.

 

1 hour ago, elentari said:

I said it in the past and I'll say it again. The only people who are against the AH are the greedy bunch who want to sell their items as much as possible and would loathe the idea of prices dropping due to having more competition on the market. The only people against the AH are that small vocal minority which is really less than 1% of players that have the time to roam around and check 50 merchants.

 

A marketplace is a location where traders meet not just to get a higher customer base but also it standardizes prices in the long term. If I sell a leather coat for 50 Euros and the other merchant near me sells it for 500 EUros and it's the same leather coat, no one will buy his. In time prices will standardize to something like 100 Euros so the poor bugger can make a living as well.

On the contrary, an auction house is an ideal breeding ground for a wallmart-like escapade. Local crafters can forget about competing with the big boys when an auction house becomes reality. Unfortunately those local crafters are also typically the poor buggers trying to make some silver. Good luck earning anything when your top tier village can safely undercut you and offer better/more goods than a local player ever will.

That is exactly why an auction house has no place in Wurm whatsoever.

 

Wurm is not WoW, or Runescape. Let's keep it that way and never look back.

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On 12/9/2020 at 10:51 AM, GroeneAppel said:

On the contrary, an auction house is an ideal breeding ground for a wallmart-like escapade. Local crafters can forget about competing with the big boys when an auction house becomes reality. Unfortunately those local crafters are also typically the poor buggers trying to make some silver. Good luck earning anything when your top tier village can safely undercut you and offer better/more goods than a local player ever will.

That is exactly why an auction house has no place in Wurm whatsoever.

 

Wurm is not WoW, or Runescape. Let's keep it that way and never look back.

On the MMO game Perfect World, they had a Teleport system, A Auction House, Mail boxes where you could send items with a fee and you could also set up your own personal shop anywhere in safe zones such as villages.

 

None of what you said happened on there when I was last playing. (Back in the early 2000s)  Some people used the Auction House but also alot of people sold with their own personal shops.   It is not an all or nothing thing, even more so if you balance it out.  The main places to sell were the starter cities and the main big city that everyone had to pass through.   You could walk through the streets of the big city and just see shop after player shop.  Certain areas of the city had more player shops then other places.

So on wurm if you had player made markets on the in game map then people would know where to travel to if they want to buy in person. 

 

Have an Auction House NPC in certain locations if you really want to cut down on Auction House use, then players have to actually travel to the location to use the Auction House.  That was the case on Perfect World. The Auction House NPC was only in the Cities.  Then people have to travel to the location to use it.

It was more easy I would say on Perfect World with the Teleport system. Oh and here is something else with the teleportation.  Just because there is fast travel, that does not mean that no exploration will happen.    It can actually mean that more exploration happens because people are able to get to far away places without having to invest alot of travel time.    Then again, you also had to travel to that location first as well to activate the Teleportation Point on the map first before you could teleport there again.  (On perfect world)

If you want all of the teleportation travel points, you have to explore the world.  That is what I did.  I used to travel into areas with super high level monsters just to add the teleport point and see what the area was like.  Quite a thrill.

 

I went back onto Perfect world today for the first time in over 10 years and saw other players just zooming around.  teleporting.  Not bothering to look at the sights and the surroundings.  I think I was always different, the way I played those MMOs.  Then the maybe more "Normal" I hit monsters, complete quests as fast as I can to level up, crowd.....

 

It makes everything fast.  Hand holding.  On wurm you've actually got to figure stuff out.  You've got to explore.

Here is an example of what the Auction House looked like on Perfect World:

 

Spoiler

Auction-House-Listing.png

You could have something like that here on wurm.

Edited by Zexos
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id like a fast 50kph  public boat leaves zan east and west side ( and all servers ),from city point/bus stop to say pristine starter shopping town were theres all of the traders all selling there stuff , (not interested in auction house ,if u want sell top stuff its in forums), so u go there from either side of your server then buy and bus back home to those points ,jump on u horse or boat and go home, this has got to beat finding random hidden merchants on someones deed u go past, i love togo to glass hollow market for this very reason heaps of traders in 1 spot ,just need to get there n back faster but not teleport 

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On 12/9/2020 at 12:46 PM, Zexos said:

On the MMO game Perfect World, they had a Teleport system, A Auction House, Mail boxes where you could send items with a fee and you could also set up your own personal shop anywhere in safe zones such as villages.

 

None of what you said happened on there when I was last playing.  Some people used the Auction House but also alot of people sold with their own personal shops.   It is not an all or nothing thing, even more so if you balance it out.  The main places to sell were the starter cities and the main big city that everyone had to pass through.   You could walk through the streets of the big city and just see shop after player shop.  Certain areas of the city had more player shops then other places.

So on wurm if you had player made markets on the in game map then people would know where to travel to if they want to buy in person. 

 

Have an Auction House NPC in certain locations if you really want to cut down on Auction House use, then players have to actually travel to the location to use the Auction House.  That was the case on Perfect World. The Auction House NPC was only in the Cities.  Then people have to travel to the location to use it.

It was more easy I would say on Perfect World with the Teleport system. Oh and here is something else with the teleportation.  Just because there is fast travel, that does not mean that no exploration will happen.    It can actually mean that more exploration happens because people are able to get to far away places without having to invest alot of travel time.    Then again, you also had to travel to that location first as well to activate the Teleportation Point on the map first before you could teleport there again.  (On perfect world)

If you want all of the teleportation travel points, you have to explore the world.  That is what I did.  I used to travel into areas with super high level monsters just to add the teleport point and see what the area was like.  Quite a thrill.

Here is an example of what the Auction House looked like on Perfect World:

 

  Reveal hidden contents

Auction-House-Listing.png

You could have something like that here on wurm.

 

You are trying to compare Wurm to cookie-cutter MMO #2838. Shame on you for even trying to do that.

Wurm plays nothing like your average mmo. Yes in these MMO's you want your instant gratification and to quickly sell whatever boss you loot you might have gotten, which then quickly drops in price as the market gets saturated and a new boss gets added.

Wurm is a slow game, where you slowly get your skills, village and gear up. Travelling is part of that experience.

Localized selling is part of that experience too. If you want your gear cheaper you travel to the center, get the skills needed yourself or just cough up that 20 extra copper.

Letting people warp around like that would destroy that experience and remove any form of isolation/wildernis experience Wurm has. Regardless if they have to "explore" the area first.

 

Not just that, but we technically already have a method to get people to teleport. Summon Soul is a thing. Why not pay (or just ask) somoene to have you summoned there?

And if that's too much, people build road networks for a reason.

If you want something done in Wurm you have to either pay or work for it.

Teleportation networks, auction houses and whatever have no business being in Wurm.

-1

 

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I think you've put wurm on to much of a pedestal.  

Also your summon soul example would mean that, that person who you are paying would also have to either travel to that location first or already be there. 

 

Look, here is an example:

I went to travel to the last monster slayin on release from where I live at the very top North corner of the map. 

I tried to get there in time but when I finally stopped around where I thought it would be, I suddenly found out that I was all the way down at the very bottom of the map. Deep south.  I was on horse back as well so no ship. I then had to spend hours making my way back but all that I wanted to do was be back home where it was safe so that I could finally quit the game. 

 

I like to do things all at once.  If I have to carry on travelling the next day.  No, I don't like that. One of the main reasons why I stick to the smaller servers too. 

 

Also cookie-cutter mmo #2838 had some travel features that wurm does not have. You could swim underwater for as long as you wanted and all classes could fly in the skies as well. I know flying would not work on wurm though with the slopes mechanic.

But you know, you can learn from the so called "cookie-cutter" mmos.  They do have some good features.

 

Oh and also those more automatic features would help me who can be more anti-social.  I talk to people but alot of the times I want to do things myself.

 

One more "Oh" I also don't really work for things that much.  I create alot of buildings but if I come across a fallen deed or abandoned building with lots of mats inside and high ql furniture then I'm taking it. I would much prefer to skip the making mats time and just go to the creation cause I love building things. 

 

(I actually did not even know that summon soul spell even existed, I need to check to see how easy it is to get.  I might maybe create a priest just so that I can teleport back to the village....Okay, it is not easy at all, just checked the wiki > . <  nevermind. )

Edited by Zexos
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Yes no auction houses in Wurm please. We aren’t WoW or ESO or some other mmo. Player to player interaction is a must in this game.

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I like the idea of the ingame map having markets tagged, but at what threshold?  Based on size in tiles?  Based on number of market stalls?    

 

I guess we already have the functionality for individuals, villages and alliances to mark locations on the in-game, but that would mean having to find the markets first to mark them.

 

I also think protected highways should be on the map, either from the off or at least complete sections when you have travelled from waystone to waystone.

 

I am not a fan of teleports.  I can see some use for them when starting out, but that is an exceptional use when initializing.  I don't even like respawning to a location I have never visited, as it messes with my mental map.  I have twice been too quick to respawn and accidentally selected location I had not yet visited and both times there was significant re-orientation required.  If I am to go somewhere, then I like to do it by going.  YMMV.

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On 12/13/2020 at 11:39 PM, TheTrickster said:

I like the idea of the ingame map having markets tagged, but at what threshold?  Based on size in tiles?  Based on number of market stalls?    

 

I guess we already have the functionality for individuals, villages and alliances to mark locations on the in-game, but that would mean having to find the markets first to mark them.

 

I also think protected highways should be on the map, either from the off or at least complete sections when you have travelled from waystone to waystone.

 

I am not a fan of teleports.  I can see some use for them when starting out, but that is an exceptional use when initializing.  I don't even like respawning to a location I have never visited, as it messes with my mental map.  I have twice been too quick to respawn and accidentally selected location I had not yet visited and both times there was significant re-orientation required.  If I am to go somewhere, then I like to do it by going.  YMMV.

I just went and played the Perfect World game that I have not been on in over 10 years and I've got to say that wurm is a much better and more interesting game.  no contest.

Mass Teleportation would not work on wurm and actually on the Perfect World game, I got teleported a few times when I did not want to be because I completed a quest and I was like "But I had not finished in the prev area yet and I wanted to explore more....."   Yeah, it does mess with you.  maybe more so if you have not ever been to the location before.

 

I like your idea to do with the highways.  I think the main issue is making sure that not too much hand holding happens.  Because as soon as you start to hand hold users, you are heading into automatic mode where you don't even need to think anymore.

Wurm makes you think.  Or at least makes you have to navigate around the map and you can get lost.  That can be fun but also stressful. Maybe as it is in real life.

You could have a different icon for how many market stalls a deed has.  1 - 2 market stalls would be 1 icon. 3 - 5 markets stalls another.  6 - 10.  over 10.  Or whatever,   Or even just "Small Market"  Medium market" and "Large Market" could be the icon names, if there was to be a map "Key" for the icons. 

Just some ideas.

Edited by Zexos
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I certainly get a lot of satisfaction from using a map to navigate, but something somewhere between the ingame - which doesn't really indicate any but the grossest landmarks - and the community maps - which which leave little for the player to work out.

 

Somewhere around here on the forum I made a suggestion about mapmaking. 

 

I think an icon for a market, with some kind of indicator as to size, is a good idea.   Like you say, either different markers, or maybe labels, or even colours, or size (concentric rings, a dot in the middle and a ring for every 3 or 4 stalls?  

 

I personally don't think teleporting to and from markets is a good solution, and an auction house to me seems almost game breaking.  Who wants to play mediaeval spreadsheets?

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