Ngin

How would you deal with successful rare roll on a rare item during an improvement order ?

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I had a vendor on NFI inform me, after I'd already sent the item and he'd started imping it, that if it went rare he'd keep it and send me another one.  I didn't feel like hassling about it, and I knew it was unlikely to go rare, so I took a chance rather than asking him to send it back--although I did tell him that he absolutely should have told me about this policy of his BEFORE I sent the item, not after.  It didn't go rare so the point was moot.  But I definitely won't be doing business with him again.

 

To me the issue isn't so much that he would have kept the item had it turned rare, but that he wasn't up front about the terms from the start.

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5 hours ago, Ekcin said:

Back to the subject, it is not theft. Rather it is embezzlement once the imper retains the original item, and attempted (accomplished) blackmail/extortion when he demands (gets) an additional fee for other than out of the free will and decision of the owner.

True, not theft but still stealing.

 

I think that this is a distinction that many make mentally, between what they do and theft, as if that means they are therefore not stealing.  Burglery is theft, robbery is theft, embezzlement is theft, fraud is theft, extortion is theft.  Keeping someone else's item fits into one of the last three, which one depends on the circumstances.

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3 hours ago, Ngin said:

I am also confused because the question was all about  "How would you deal..." and not "How should I deal" , I guess that was an answer to the second one.

 

But

 

17 hours ago, Ngin said:

I would guess that you can buy the similar rare item and keep/sell the superior one on the market, but imagine if you don't find the same rare item on the Market to replace and the orderer wants at all cost have it's item back and refuses to pay any extra fee.

 

 

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1 hour ago, TheTrickster said:

 

But

 

 

 

Honestly, I am new to the game and I didn't know much of these in the beginning, so I was always wondering since most of the people do this if an item turn from rare to supreme or fantastic they try to replace the previous item by another one, so many people don't really examine the item after you receive it from your order, your focus is on the quality and not the maker, good to point it out this for new players !

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11 hours ago, Platyna said:

I was once demanded extra money when a person who was improving my item and turned it rare, they returned my item when I threatened to file a support ticket, but then they were backbiting me that I refused to pay them in full for their service. It was on old server @Ekcinand it was an old player. It was very mean, but happened just once, all other impers acted reasonably and returned me MY item without demanding any charge, and thanks god most items have signatures. 

 

Or in fact what you forget to mention is that you wanted something in bronze (dioptra) improved to 95QL and turned rare... the dioptra was not even yours but was lent to you by a neighboor for which you asked a replacement (because you wanted to keep the rare). The fact was that the cost of the work was first undervalued (because bronze at 95+QL is a pita to make), the imp was insanely hard for a way too low price... my bad on that one... and when you were offered 1/ to stop the work and send it at 93QL for the agreed price you asked for the whole 95 QL, 2/ when you were offered a brand new 90QL dioptra free of charge (with the full intent to mail the rare dioptra to it's REAL owner) you refused and throw a fit.

 

TL:DR; the extra money was not for the rarity but for the added difficulty of the job (at that point many hours went in already, bronze stocks went out, and the item was only 93QL) but instead you wanted to screw someone else out of their rare item and the crafter out of their time and efforts.

 

As for the rest of my customers, usually when things go rare, i just warn my customer and tell them... "you are f***ing lucky... i just turned you <insert random item> <insert rarity level>" some are happy and offers a tip, some just say wow... only a "Platyna" asked for a new similar item to swap it out with the one someone lent them.

Edited by Odynn
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8 minutes ago, Ngin said:

Honestly, I am new to the game and I didn't know much of these in the beginning, so I was always wondering since most of the people do this if an item turn from rare to supreme or fantastic they try to replace the previous item by another one, so many people don't really examine the item after you receive it from your order, your focus is on the quality and not the maker, good to point it out this for new players !

 

Something that is worth remembering is that some items are enchanted, you can't swap something with enchants or even worse a specific signature. Imagine that it was a gift from a departed friend or an item created by Enki (or any others GMs) and you now ends up with a random item with none of your added sentimental value.

 

Basicly, if you are imping something, send it back, rared up or not.

 

(Yah, i'm just double posting for the extra points and the totally unrelated subject.)

Edited by Odynn
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25 minutes ago, Odynn said:

 

Or in fact what you forget to mention is that you wanted something in bronze (dioptra) improved to 95QL and turned rare... the dioptra was not even yours but was lent to you by a neighboor for which you asked a replacement (because you wanted to keep the rare). The fact was that the cost of the work was first undervalued (because bronze at 95+QL is a pita to make), the imp was insanely hard for a way too low price... my bad on that one... and when you were offered 1/ to stop the work and send it at 93QL for the agreed price you asked for the whole 95 QL, 2/ when you were offered a brand new 90QL dioptra free of charge (with the full intent to mail the rare dioptra to it's REAL owner) you refused and throw a fit.

 

TL:DR; the extra money was not for the rarity but for the added difficulty of the job (at that point many hours went in already, bronze stocks went out, and the item was only 93QL) but instead you wanted to screw someone else out of their rare item and the crafter out of their time and efforts.

 

As for the rest of my customers, usually when things go rare, i just warn my customer and tell them... "you are f***ing lucky... i just turned you <insert random item> <insert rarity level>" some are happy and offers a tip, some just say wow... only a "Platyna" asked for a new similar item to swap it out with the one someone lent them.

 

Yes that sounds like her, she goes on about theft forgetting she stole often from people trying to help her, the poor sod that let her onto his deed learnt a very harsh lesson and admitted it was his fault for he trusted her and didn't even think about locking his chest, she could hardly walk the amount of stuff she stole. In the end she made his life hell ( she deeded next door ) he sold up his deed and moved servers.

 

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It is no different than me casting with my priest. I tell you the cost for spells, you decide on the 70power spell. I get a lucky roll and cast 100. I do not charge you for the 100 power spell. I do not keep your item, despite the fact that 100 power spells fetch big coin on NFI. I send it back and you are happy. 

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I was nice, I did not give any names, I didn't attack anyone and all I wrote was true. 

 

@Odynn

Quote

Radio Yerevan was asked: "Is it correct that Grigori Grigorievich Grigoriev won a luxury car at the All-Union Championship in Moscow?"
Radio Yerevan answered: "In principle, yes. But first of all it was not Grigori Grigorievich Grigoriev, but Vassili Vassilievich Vassiliev; second, it was not at the All-Union Championship in Moscow, but at a Collective Farm Sports Festival in Smolensk; third, it was not a car, but a bicycle; and fourth he didn't win it, but rather it was stolen from him."

 

 

Edited by Platyna

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Be nice if a feature was added when sending mail to someone that it's a "protected item" meaning that if item is received in the mail with this option enabled, no one can activate, equip or use it except the original sender.  The item can still be moved from inventory, storage, forges and etc.  Should be able to see "who" its protected by and the item can only be improved at this point.  Once mailed back to sender and accepted, the protection wares off and can be used again by anyone.

 

The mail system would need an option for protected and to make sure it displays the protection before received by person so no scams or janky stuff when mailing COD items being stuck in protected.

 

"Protected items" would only work when mailed and not when traded or dropped on the ground for another person to accept.

 

I understand the item can still be held hostage if went rare, but at least the item can't be used, switched out or resold for value and there is proof from the "protection" that was mailed to be imped and not screwed with.

 

Didn't think about any cons or abuse this could introduce, but hoping there isn't any.

 

Edit:  Having sent a protected item would have the protectors name when doing examine so would be another good feature if you have a lot of orders and forgot who sent you the item.  Then don't have to trust or rely on renaming the item before mailing it.

Edited by nicedreams

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Not saying thats a super bad idea @nicedreams, but scamming and such will get you banned so it would be adding extra steps to what is already a rather protected system - logs can prove ownership, sending, receiving either also. I believe that might pose issues when things are being sent with middle men and such.

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5 minutes ago, nicedreams said:

Be nice if a feature was added when sending mail to someone that it's a "protected item" meaning that if item is received in the mail with this option enabled, no one can activate, equip or use it except the original sender.  The item can still be moved from inventory, storage, forges and etc.  Should be able to see "who" its protected by and the item can only be improved at this point.  Once mailed back to sender and accepted, the protection wares off and can be used again by anyone.

 

The mail system would need an option for protected and to make sure it displays the protection before received by person so no scams or janky stuff when mailing COD items being stuck in protected.

 

"Protected items" would only work when mailed and not when traded or dropped on the ground for another person to accept.

 

I understand the item can still be held hostage if went rare, but at least the item can't be used, switched out or resold for value and there is proof from the "protection" that was mailed to be imped and not screwed with.

 

Didn't think about any cons or abuse this could introduce, but hoping there isn't any.

 

Edit:  Having sent a protected item would have the protectors name when doing examine so would be another good feature if you have a lot of orders and forgot who sent you the item.  Then don't have to trust or rely on renaming the item before mailing it.

 

Good topic for a Suggestions post/thread. Here, unfortunately, it won't even be considered as such.

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3 minutes ago, Blazecraze said:

Not saying thats a super bad idea @nicedreams, but scamming and such will get you banned so it would be adding extra steps to what is already a rather protected system - logs can prove ownership, sending, receiving either also. I believe that might pose issues when things are being sent with middle men and such.

 

This might help limit having to post /support tickets, get evidence from logs, talk to multiple people, plead your case, get GMs involved, wait for an outcome and then blast people on forums.  Oh and then GMs post updates to rules or ask people to play nice and be fair and then just all the public drama that comes with this.

 

I'm assuming holding someones item because they want a better deal because item they imped went rare is a conversation and waste of time for CM/GMs and not a ban from the game.

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All I said is true. The case was from May, it means I was a 1,5-month-old noobie and didn't know many things yet. 

 

Spoiler

[00:02:53] <[REDACTED]> well... i will replace the based QL dioptra... 70QL free of charge.
[00:03:03] <Platyna> No way.
[00:03:16] <Platyna> I want the dioptra I sent you.
[00:03:34] <Platyna> Seriously.
[00:03:57] <Platyna> Now you killed me.
[00:04:35] <Platyna> You agreed to make me 90 ql for 50c.
[00:04:41] <Platyna> It is 92.
[00:05:00] <Platyna> So you now want to take away my item?
[00:05:09] <Platyna> Are you serious?
[00:06:37] <[REDACTED]> what you want is the dioptra i rared and offered you to imp to 95QL for 1s50c... which you accepted for a low balled price
[00:06:46] <Platyna> Rare is a game of chance,
[00:06:50] <Platyna> I gave it it to imp.
[00:07:00] <Platyna> We agred on a price, please return my property to me.
[00:07:46] <Platyna> I had multiple items imped, including some of the made rare and I never had such a bad situation.
[00:07:54] <Platyna> So I will be afraid to get my item back!
[00:09:52] <[REDACTED]> at which price? seeing it's no longuer 90QL?
[00:10:02] <Platyna> So recalculate the price for 92.
[00:10:12] <Platyna> But usually no one charges for a point or two.
[00:10:18] <[REDACTED]> it's 93QL
[00:10:26] <[REDACTED]> are you real?!
[00:10:29] <Platyna> So recalculate it for 93.
[00:10:39] <Platyna> Seriously, good question too you.
[00:10:41] <[REDACTED]> no one charge for a point or two... if it's low QL.
[00:11:11] <[REDACTED]> i imp stuff to 85QL for free instead of 80, that's not a big deal... we are talking about 90+
[00:11:11] <Platyna> 'I just got a studded boot imped to 92 ql, while I paid for 90.
[00:11:16] <Platyna> And no change on cod.
[00:11:41] <Platyna> But as I said, recalculate it, send back, I don't rreally want to have anything to do with you any more.
[00:14:32] <[REDACTED]> Same... to think i made you a favor to reduce the original 90QL imping price from 60c to 50c...
[00:14:58] <Platyna> Will you return me my item or not?
[00:15:24] <[REDACTED]> it's mailed
[00:16:03] <Platyna> You seemed a resonable person. You can't do such stuff, you say QL 90 cost X, QL 95 cost Y,, in advance.
[00:16:28] <Platyna> You ccan't complain in the middle of the job it is hard.
[00:16:43] <Platyna> Imping is hard, we all know it.
[00:19:08] <Platyna> I wish it ended better, but a customer has to know prices before service is done. Not negotate it in the middle of the unchangeable service.

 

Edited by Platyna

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Alright keep it civil. :)

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if i do a imping job and what ever the item is that become rare i don't charge extra or complain it make the client happy and more likely to come back for you service 

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6 minutes ago, Platyna said:

But why other people have to suffer by having their threads trashed? Go grind something or build a castle, stop being mean to random people on the Internet.

 

No technically this thread is about how you deal with items when they turn rare.

 

What is happening here is a beautiful case of a playerA trying to help a playerB... who then get a rare out of it... agrees to go higher QL wise for a slightly higher price while managing to waste PlayerA time and keep the rare away from the original owner.

 

Here is the full chat logs on what not to do / expect on any transactions :

Spoiler

Logging started 2020-05-16
[11:20:44] Chat opened.
[11:21:05] <PlayerA> heya, what's the dioptra made of?
[11:21:25] <PlayerB> They are always brass.
[11:21:52] <PlayerB> So you have a choice...brass or...brass. ;)
[11:21:54] <PlayerA> not always, i use a gold one myself, might have been a quest reward or something >_>
[11:22:07] <PlayerA> worth the price i paid for it :P
[11:22:12] <PlayerB> Fab, what ql?
[11:22:16] <PlayerB> I need this damn nigh.
[11:22:23] <PlayerB> To be fully crazy.
[11:22:39] <PlayerA> what QL do you need?
[11:22:51] <PlayerB> Best would be 100.
[11:22:57] <PlayerB> But 90 will satisfy me too.
[11:24:09] <PlayerA> i can most likely imp it to 90, not sure what kind of brass i have left though
[11:25:44] <PlayerB> Okay.
[11:26:00] <PlayerB> For me you can use any brass you want, no preferences here. I am just a digging redneck. :)
[11:26:37] <PlayerA> sadly the 20QL i might have in stock won't cut it :P
[11:27:36] <PlayerB> Well, you can come to R20 Ind, I have plenty of various ores.
[11:27:47] <PlayerB> You can also take some for yourself.
[11:28:32] <PlayerB> I am the only person who has lotsa mines and mining level 1.
[11:28:40] <PlayerA> haha
[11:28:45] <PlayerB> This is a rare ocassion to meet such a persona.
[11:28:56] <PlayerB> Bring papyrus I will give you an autograph. ;)
[11:29:29] <PlayerA> i know a few mines here on deli, will be most likely faster :D
[11:30:12] <PlayerB> Now? Can we meet in about an hour or two?
[11:30:19] <PlayerB> I got some killing business to attend.
[11:30:55] <PlayerA> i believe you can mail the dioptra
[11:31:05] <PlayerB> Okay, I will.
[11:31:08] <PlayerB> :)
[11:31:11] <PlayerB> I sent request.
[11:31:23] <PlayerA> seen and accepted
[11:32:01] <PlayerB> Cool. ;)
[11:33:21] <PlayerB> I will teach some trolls how to do planking and send it.
[11:36:43] <PlayerA> that will give me the time to secure the mats
[11:36:49] <PlayerA> we will have to talk price though
[11:36:55] <PlayerB> Yep.
[11:37:13] <PlayerA> what's the current QL?
[11:37:33] <PlayerB> Around 30-40, don't remember.
[11:39:15] <PlayerA> most likely looking at a 1silver imp
[11:39:24] <PlayerB> Ouch.
[11:39:56] <PlayerA> might be able to do lower... dioptras are low weight, might use less mats
[11:40:47] <PlayerA> what were you thinking price wise?
[11:46:49] <PlayerB> I was thinking it will cost like weapon. ;)
[11:47:13] <PlayerA> iron is cheap... fancy stuff is not
[11:47:13] <PlayerB> Hah it is deeded.
[11:47:22] <PlayerB> It wasn't.
[11:49:14] <PlayerB> Sorry wrong chap. :D
[11:49:49] <PlayerA> np, weapon wise i usually do 90QL for 60c (depending on the starting QL)
[11:49:54] <PlayerB> I even
[11:50:01] <PlayerB> Imped gold stuff.
[11:52:38] <PlayerA> aye, well, feel free to make an offer on what you find adequate price wise for the imp
[11:54:13] <PlayerB> I was thinking 50c.
[11:56:54] <PlayerA> can always see how it goes
[11:58:16] <PlayerB> Okay. :)
[13:25:26] <PlayerA> still here?
[13:27:07] <PlayerB> Yes, but still on away mission.
[13:27:30] <PlayerA> hah, alright, i got the mats secured to imp that dioptra now
[13:27:48] <PlayerB> Great I will send it riht away when I am home.
[13:28:15] <PlayerA> alright
Logging started 2020-05-16
[17:32:53] <PlayerB> Ok, sending.
[17:42:56] <PlayerA> hah, right when i was about to take a break :D
[17:47:27] <PlayerB> Sorry. ;)
[17:51:29] <PlayerA> i will get it done when i come back if you don't mind
[17:53:34] <PlayerB> Not at all.
Logging started 2020-05-16
[20:21:51] Chat opened.
[20:22:02] <PlayerA> hrm it's bronze... i made brass 😢
[20:31:53] <PlayerB> Damn.
[20:32:08] <PlayerB> But I could use brass ribbons.
[20:32:21] <PlayerB> I want a washing bowl. :)
[20:32:30] <PlayerB> Two od them to be frank.
[20:33:50] <PlayerA> dat will cost extra :P
[20:33:55] <PlayerA> imped or creation QL?
[20:34:42] <PlayerB> What is your creation quality?
[20:34:50] <PlayerB> They are for decor on deed so no need for 50. :D
[20:35:21] <PlayerA> should be around 20QL ish
[20:35:53] <PlayerB> Cool. :)
[20:38:14] <PlayerB> How much do you want for them?
[20:39:25] <PlayerA> dunna, make an offer :D
[21:02:17] <PlayerB> Dunno either. XD
[21:02:45] <PlayerB> A lamp coosts 10c, so maybe 10c?
[21:08:40] <PlayerA> that would work
[21:14:56] <PlayerB> Okay.
[21:52:35] <PlayerA> the washing bowls might take some extra time... they need 9kg of brass each for the ribbons only... which means 180 zinc.
[21:53:17] <PlayerB> I have here a big zinc mine. ;)
[21:55:17] <PlayerA> i'm going to focus on the dioptra imp for now then will get more mined... i doubt it would be worth it to travel for the zinc or have you mail it to me
[21:55:44] <PlayerB> I am Vynora servant I do not mine. ;)
[21:56:25] <PlayerA> lol well... see what i mean :D
[21:58:12] <PlayerB> :D
[22:06:31] <PlayerA> [22:06:22] An astronomical and surveying instrument, mounted on a tripod. This is a very rare and interesting version of the item. It is glowing from the heat. The dioptra needs to be sharpened with a
[22:06:35] <PlayerA> that's my luck >_>
[22:06:59] <PlayerB> LOL. :D
[22:07:27] <PlayerB> Rather my luck per proxy lol.
[22:07:39] <PlayerB> As directly it doesn't go that wel usually. :D
[22:07:48] <PlayerB> I heard people get money while foraging, for example.
[22:08:04] <PlayerA> when i do it's 1c >_>
[22:08:41] <PlayerB> Ah got it once. XD
[22:10:42] <PlayerB> Lets hope this rarity will throw a tile or two.
[22:15:36] <PlayerA> might iirc
[22:15:41] <PlayerB> I got a rare creature cage today. ;)
[22:15:43] <PlayerA> can also try to imp it further
[22:16:03] <PlayerB> Yes, do it, I have quite a large area to check.
[22:16:53] <PlayerA> will be slightly more expensive though
[22:17:31] <PlayerB> Ok.
[22:18:26] <PlayerB> What QL is it now?
[22:18:40] <PlayerA> 77QL and climbing
[22:18:52] <PlayerB> Cool.
[22:19:12] <PlayerA> remember that you will also need the rangepole at higher QL too
[22:19:27] <PlayerB> Can you mmake it or imp?
[22:21:04] <PlayerA> can probably do aye, but the dioptra imp will already take some of my time
[22:21:31] <PlayerB> 43
[22:22:04] <PlayerB> It uses carp skill. Hm. Mine iz  49
[22:23:17] <PlayerA> priest or follower?
[22:25:27] <PlayerB> Priest but noob
[22:25:38] <PlayerB> Especially that I destroy ffences sometimes. :D
[22:26:03] <PlayerB> Heh they need to fix the texture of range pole.
[22:26:13] <PlayerB> It needs to be B&w all the way down. :D
[22:28:04] <PlayerA> ain't it red and white?
[22:28:22] <PlayerB> In game it is only 2/3 red and white.
[22:28:32] <PlayerB> And whould be all what is not in the ground. :D
[22:30:04] <PlayerB> These have a fixed lenght, and allow you to figure out the level.
[22:41:29] <PlayerA> that imp is more painful than a weapon one >_>
[22:43:22] <PlayerB> Dunno about these.
[22:43:38] <PlayerB> My profession is match making and butscratching of animals. ;)
[22:45:17] <PlayerA> if it was a weapon, it would be already done... honestly the 50c for 90QL were too low >_>
[22:46:29] <PlayerB> People who do weapon imps also tsake these weapons for long time.
[22:46:51] <PlayerB> Could you make mt another dioptra that was QL of this one I gave you to imp?
[22:47:11] <PlayerB> If it is rare and I am to pay more for it, I don't really want to part with it. ;)
[22:47:39] <PlayerA> can do, that one was a loan?
[22:48:12] <PlayerB> Yes, but I got permissions to get it imped, so it is not a problem. ;)
[22:50:31] <PlayerA> what was the QL of the first one?
[22:51:39] <PlayerB> Can you paste me the current description?
[22:51:44] <PlayerB> I need to grep logs.
[22:52:34] <PlayerA> [22:52:27] An astronomical and surveying instrument, mounted on a tripod. This is a very rare and interesting version of the item. It is glowing from the heat. The dioptra has some dents that must be
[22:52:53] <PlayerA> 87.78 QL... quality is not written on those
[22:58:08] <PlayerB> How many tiles it has in the description?
[22:58:11] <PlayerB> 35?
[22:59:13] <PlayerA> 15.508 tiles PlayerC
[23:01:23] <PlayerB> You there?
[23:02:16] <PlayerA> yes?
[23:02:22] <PlayerA> [22:59:13] <PlayerA> 15.508 tiles Petrius
[23:02:59] <PlayerB> Yup, so the QL was 38,77
[23:03:06] <PlayerB> So 40 QL would be fine. ;)
[23:03:47] <PlayerB> Max number of tiles is calculated QL * 0,4.
[23:04:37] <PlayerB> Max is 40.
[23:04:46] <PlayerB> That's why there are no longer bridges.
[23:07:49] <PlayerA> i can try to push it to 95QL for 38 tiles then
[23:08:08] <PlayerB> Cool.
[23:08:21] <PlayerB> How about the range pole?
[23:09:13] <PlayerA> you would need the same, not sure if they can be mailed though
[23:09:36] <PlayerB> They can.
[23:10:47] <PlayerA> good, last time i played with them it wasn't possible
[23:11:32] <PlayerB> I got this one via mail. ;)
[23:11:50] <PlayerB> If something is bigger youneed runed mailbox.
[23:12:00] <PlayerB> That insteases the size.
[23:30:20] <PlayerA> 91QL on the rare
[23:32:56] <PlayerA> would 1s50c be fine for 95QL?
[23:36:05] <PlayerB> That will include the 40 ql one?
[23:36:35] <PlayerA> already sent you that one, but yeah
[23:36:52] <PlayerB> Okayish
[23:37:12] <PlayerB> How about the rounpole?
[23:37:35] <PlayerB> Roudpole lol.
[23:37:38] <PlayerB> Range pole.
[23:37:57] <PlayerA> ouch, no idea
[23:38:26] <PlayerA> at least it won't be bronze
[23:38:37] <PlayerB> Nope, it is wooden.
[23:38:45] <PlayerB> Uses carp skill to imp
[23:39:18] <PlayerB> 1,5s is highest price for imp I ever got lol.
[23:39:26] <PlayerB> Even ship imp wasn't that expensive.
[23:40:25] <PlayerA> not sure how many people dabble in bronze stuff
[23:41:41] <PlayerB> Bronze doesn't matter, moon metals increase imp price.
[23:41:53] <PlayerA> still have to craft the bronze
[23:42:29] <PlayerB> Or gold, or steel, or seryl. ;)
[23:42:34] <PlayerB> Can yo do carp imps?
[23:42:45] <PlayerA> moon metal doesn't increase imp price. buying the moon metal does
[23:43:04] <PlayerA> gold is mined straight from the veins, seryll is gained through rifts or mark
[23:43:12] <PlayerA> but steel need to be crafted as well
[23:43:31] <PlayerA> aye, got 99 carp too
[23:44:20] <PlayerA> only a handful of people deal with steel and even less at high QL
[23:44:51] <PlayerB> I got QL 95 rare steel axe, I know stuff. 😜
[23:45:14] <PlayerB> So what is te price for that and matching pole?
[23:46:44] <PlayerA> i'd like to get the dioptra finished first, 1s50c on it
[23:46:51] <PlayerA> range pole should be easier normally
[23:47:53] <PlayerA> from 60c to 1s maybe, depending how it goes
[23:48:34] <PlayerA> dioptra is 92.5 QL atm
[23:50:26] <PlayerA> and axe difficulty range from 15 to 35 depending on the model you have. dioptra is 70
[23:51:12] <PlayerB> The guy who sent me range pole said it is easy to make and imp.
[23:51:22] <PlayerB> It is already way above my budget.
[23:51:39] <PlayerB> Hardest imps are ship imps and vehicle imps.
[23:52:26] <PlayerA> caravel and wagon are 70 difficulty
[23:52:32] <PlayerA> same as a dioptra
[23:54:56] <PlayerB> Make me this and a matching range pole for 2s ok?
[23:57:10] <PlayerA> 😕
[23:57:52] <PlayerA> [23:56:28] <PlayerD> i am BS 99.98 skill  and  i just did a dioptra for a favor to a friend to 90 ql
[23:57:59] <PlayerA> [23:57:21] <PlayerD> the cost of a 95 ql would be obsurd  as it takes a ton of high ql bronze which is hard to come by
[23:58:05] <PlayerA> [23:57:52] <PlayerD> i regretted saying i would do my friends  took me days
[23:58:16] <PlayerB> ...
[23:58:26] <PlayerA> no actual price quote on a 95QL imp yet
[23:58:56] <PlayerB> Post factum price negotatiions are not fair.
[23:59:28] <PlayerB> Puts us both in uncomfortable situation as none of us can back down.
[00:01:42] <PlayerA> no, it's not, but low balling it doesn't help either... specially when i have spent half the day working on the mats and prep... for something that was supposed to be brass but instead turned out to b
[00:01:46] <PlayerA> be bronze
[00:01:59] <PlayerA> [00:01:18] <PlayerD> i charge 1.5s for 95+  ql imp  and i try to do a bit over  0.50  but where ever the bronze gets me
[00:02:08] <PlayerB> A guy spent a day imping and casting my axe, and I knew the price in advance.
[00:02:20] <PlayerB> He didn't come to me complain how hard it is in the middle of the job.
[00:02:48] <PlayerB> And I don't care abotu PlayerD's reflections, I do not make business with him.
[00:02:53] <PlayerA> well... i will replace the based QL dioptra... 70QL free of charge.
[00:02:58] <PlayerB> And AFAIR he always has the prices out of the plue.
[00:03:03] <PlayerB> No way.
[00:03:16] <PlayerB> I want the dioptra I sent you.
[00:03:34] <PlayerB> Seriously.
[00:03:57] <PlayerB> Now you killed me.
[00:04:35] <PlayerB> You agreed to make me 90 ql for 50c.
[00:04:41] <PlayerB> It is 92.
[00:04:58] <PlayerA> 93
[00:05:00] <PlayerB> So you now want to take away my item?
[00:05:09] <PlayerB> Are you serious?
[00:06:37] <PlayerA> what you want is the dioptra i rared and offered you to imp to 95QL for 1s50c... which you accepted for a low balled price
[00:06:46] <PlayerB> Rare is a game of chance,
[00:06:50] <PlayerB> I gave it it to imp.
[00:07:00] <PlayerB> We agred on a price, please return my property to me.
[00:07:46] <PlayerB> I had multiple items imped, including some of the made rare and I never had such a bad situation.
[00:07:54] <PlayerB> So I will be afraid to get my item back!
[00:09:51] <PlayerA> at which price? seeing it's no longuer 90QL?
[00:10:02] <PlayerB> So recalculate the price for 92.
[00:10:12] <PlayerB> But usually no one charges for a point or two.
[00:10:17] <PlayerA> it's 93QL
[00:10:26] <PlayerA> are you real?!
[00:10:29] <PlayerB> So recalculate it for 93.
[00:10:39] <PlayerB> Seriously, good question too you.
[00:10:41] <PlayerA> no one charge for a point or two... if it's low QL.
[00:11:11] <PlayerA> i imp stuff to 85QL for free instead of 80, that's not a big deal... we are talking about 90+
[00:11:11] <PlayerB> 'I just got a studded boot imped to 92 ql, while I paid for 90.
[00:11:16] <PlayerB> And no change on cod.
[00:11:41] <PlayerB> But as I said, recalculate it, send back, I don't rreally want to have anything to do with you anymore.
[00:14:32] <PlayerA> Same... to think i made you a favor to reduce the original 90QL imping price from 60c to 50c...
[00:14:58] <PlayerB> Will you return me my item or not?
[00:15:24] <PlayerA> it's mailed
[00:16:03] <PlayerB> You seemed a resonable person. You can't do such stuff, you say QL 90 cost X, QL 95 cost Y,, in advance.
[00:16:28] <PlayerB> You ccan't complain in the middle of the job it is hard.
[00:16:43] <PlayerB> Imping is hard, we all know it.
[00:19:08] <PlayerB> I wish it ended better, but a customer has to know prices before service is done. Not negotate it in the middle of the unchangeable service.
[00:20:49] <PlayerA> said the person who gave the go ahead to a 95QL imp for 1s50c >_>
[00:21:08] <PlayerB> I said ok, as I underestood it.
[00:22:07] <PlayerB> And then you pasted me the guy like you wanted to increase price more.
[00:22:43] <PlayerA> i doubled check my price...which was in the decent range
[00:22:58] <PlayerB> I do not make deals with him because he has prices out of blue. 😜
[00:26:49] <PlayerB> I prefer people to have pleasant encounters with me. So, my suggestion is make me the range pole, I will send you some money and
[00:26:54] <PlayerB> some materials.
[00:27:11] <PlayerB> I think I have some moonmetal laying around.
[00:28:29] <PlayerB> I got 90 QL lead and 35 ql electrum.
[00:29:06] <PlayerB> 86,48 silver
[00:29:58] <PlayerA> no thank you. i wasted enough time trying to be of help to you. good luck finding someone else
[00:31:42] <PlayerB> You can't renegotatie the price that high in the middle of the deal, but fine, you want to hate me, hate me. I offered you additional money and good resources. Have a good day.
[00:36:29] <PlayerB> And I made a deal of the c entury because without decent range pole it is 1s thrown into the river. Fab.
[00:39:04] <PlayerA> i'm sure you will easilly find someone willing to make you a rangepole at 93QL for 50c... as you said, they are easy
[00:39:52] <PlayerB> No, I said the guy who gave me the rounpole said it was easy to make and imp.
[00:40:05] <PlayerB> I got the current roundpole to level 60.
[00:40:13] <PlayerB> And I am 59 carp.
[00:40:41] <PlayerB> And you complained about materials so I offered you some as well.
[00:41:04] <PlayerB> But some people just don't want to get along with others.

 

The true owner of the item is PlayerC - the rare should have went back to him... but PlayerB wanted it all for herself... While myself as PlayerA tried to be helpful and kind, i got the recieving end of the shaft and have lost my cool for sure... Double checking stuff on trade chat ended up with the answers from PlayerD.

 

So when it comes to rare... send the damn thing to the owner... the real one... the end. And stop wasting the crafters time by lowballing prices and begging for freebies.

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On 12/2/2020 at 8:57 AM, beach said:

I remember once upon a time people use to charge a flat fee for the QL imp, and a conditional flat fee if they turn the item rare/increase the rarity. 

I havent seen this in a long time, but i remember it use to be really common to see that rare roll clause on improving posts.

 

 

I remember this also , not all impers did it but some did. It was also discussed up front, no surprises. I have not seen this in practice for years, nor have I ever done it myself. 

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I send lot's of items out for imping and on multiple occasions have had them go rare. I have never had anyone ask for more money for a rare item, however I will always throw in a tip because I know how infrequent rare rolls can be. On the reverse side I have always received tips in the past for improving peoples things to rare+, on some occasions I have even offered to buy the item off of them. But I would never ask for more money and hold the item hostage. As for replacing the item that can be very hard to do. Since some items have enchants, imbues or runes.

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While your reputation is your own, this thread is starting to derail.  If folks wish to continue discussing the specifics of who did or didn't do what in regards to a dioptra, please take it to its own thread, or PMs.

 

Thank you.

  Pandalet (LFM)

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Object lesson - if you are going to to provide a specific service for a specific price, than you do the service, take your money and call it a day.  If the nature of the service is to change, establish the changed agreement before you start the service.

 

 

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IMO you give the item no matter the rarity. Make someone's day.

Not something I would feel the need to disclose when taking on work.

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One important aspect here is honesty and clear expectations. Be clear about the service you are offering or buying. 

 

I've been annoyed a few times by people asking for imps who really wanted the item turned rare and wouldn't pay when it didn't.

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1 hour ago, gerlion said:

One important aspect here is honesty and clear expectations. Be clear about the service you are offering or buying.

I've been annoyed a few times by people asking for imps who really wanted the item turned rare and wouldn't pay when it didn't.

Is that really a problem? No imper ever can guarantee an item turning rare, well, creating rare items is possible with some reliability if you invest enough time and/or rare components, but imping, no. Someone expecting the item turning rare is deeply irrational and ignorant.

 

And if a customer refuses payment, just keep the item. COD is your friend 😎.

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I'd give client rare item.

Unless I specifically said beforehand that I keep any rare item and replace it with a comparable non-rare item.

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