Ngin

How would you deal with successful rare roll on a rare item during an improvement order ?

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"How would you deal with successful rare roll on a rare item during an improvement order ?"

I would guess that you can buy the similar rare item and keep/sell the superior one on the market, but imagine if you don't find the same rare item on the Market to replace and the orderer wants at all cost have it's item back and refuses to pay any extra fee.

What would you do ? send a ticket and hope it gets resolved or mail the superior rare item back to the orderer ?

Edited by Ngin
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you send them the item back regardless of rarity, you don't just hold someones item hostage because you got a lucky roll wtf

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There is nothing to ticket, if you agreed to imp thier stuff its not their fault you got a roll and you give it back

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There is nothing to deal with.You just return the item to the owner after you finished your job on it.It is the wurm way.

The only time you could keep the item is when you get a order to create and improve the item,then you can just make another one and keep the rare.

Most items have creator name on them and some  people care who's name is on them.

 

Edited by Jonydowy
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That's right you would have to send the item back to the owner that's what you have agreed on unless you provided some extra information like a Disclaimer or something, otherwise you will probably get a tip or nothing just like real life. I totally forgot about the creator name on the item nice detail.

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If someone sends you an item to improve, it is and continues to be their item.  Even if you Fantastic it, it is still their item.  They are paying you for your skill and time in improving their item.  If you turn their item rare, they will most grateful and will sing your praises.  If you switch it out, or ask for more money, you are reneging on the arrangement and THEN there might be a ticket.

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Yup. I don't know where people get idea they are entitled for extra money if they rare item. You are paid for your time and skill to improve item to desired ql. End of story. You didn't do any extra effort to make it rare that would require extra money. I always avoid impers that require extra money for raring items.

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Rare rolls are a matter of luck and statistics that's it. No one "contributes" anything to it. A noob imping a knarr could turn it fantastic in his first two months of playtime whereas a player playing for 8 years has never turned a knarr supreme. It's just how life is.

 

And yes, that's one of the unwritten rules of Wurm. If you agree to imp something for someone and they give you their item, if it turns rare, it's still their item. 

 

If however you agree to Create something for someone using your own mats, then yeah you could keep it, as long as you still kept your word to create said item. From my experience, I have turned more rares from commissions to imp people's weapons and armor than when I upgraded my own gear. Such is Wurm.

 

 

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Yup, lucky roll on someone's item u are imping for em is their good fortune, and absolutely not your opportunity for profit, any attempt to substitute or replace is flat out dishonest, and the fact u find it necessary to even ask is concerning.

 

Treat others as you yourself would like to be treated, ok.

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Haha imagine if teachers kept the kids after they'd accidentally taught them something that wasn't in the curriculum: "This has been refined beyond expectation, it is mine now".

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Well if you realy care about the rare (becous you could use it yourself like a rare hammer or a rare gethering tool that suits your job) you could just ask the person if they care about the name of the person who createt it. If not you could just swap it with ther agreement. This is of course just if they don´t care and you can give them the same tool. So if ther are enchatments or runes on it its not an option and you shuld allways make it clear to the person who give you the item that you have swap it.

Edited by Radircs

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I have been pretty surprised by how many people on the new servers tell me that if the item goes rare they are keeping it. I've actually had to start asking people about this issue up front just in case. I have turned down several offers to improve my items because they said they would keep it. Even fully enchanted items or items with custom made dyes on them. I was told that they would try to replace the enchants the best that they could. I've always tipped well for items that may go rare.

 

Like the others have said, it is not owned by the person doing the imp, you are just providing a service. Send it back with a smile and say congratz, and hope that they refer your business to their friends. I've learned that creating good will among people goes much further then trying to profit a few extra silvers.

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52 minutes ago, gnomegates said:

I have been pretty surprised by how many people on the new servers tell me that if the item goes rare they are keeping it.

I did not know that market fanaticism went that far on the new servers. It seems that it should be commented by the GM in a WSA or the rule section that holding back an item from imping services would be considered scam and embezzlement, and punished accordingly. I would even be adverse towards an explicit clause of the imper in advance, entitling her/him to hold back items when turning rare. Such a clause should be declared scam by the GM as well.

Edited by Ekcin
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I was once demanded extra money when a person who was improving my item and turned it rare, they returned my item when I threatened to file a support ticket, but then they were backbiting me that I refused to pay them in full for their service. It was on old server @Ekcinand it was an old player. It was very mean, but happened just once, all other impers acted reasonably and returned me MY item without demanding any charge, and thanks god most items have signatures. 

Edited by Platyna

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I did not say that such cannot happen on the old servers. The probability is yet higher on the new ones, where more players are unfamiliar with Wurm, and, in addition, those old players did migrate which are more after market opportunities than the majority of the pre launch community.

 

To avoid any misunderstandings, the GM should clarify that rarity is an attribute or property (whichever in OOP gibberish I am not sure) of the item randomly granted during creation and improvement, which does not alter item ownership. On creation, ownership is of course with the creator, but during improvement, an item is already owned by a player character. Therefore, any withholding of improved items on grounds of having turned rare is embezzlement and scam.

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I was wondering why Ngin felt the need to ask their thread question but it appears that there IS a need for clarification. 

 

Oblivionreaver has surely 'hit the nail on the head'

8 hours ago, Oblivionnreaver said:

you send them the item back regardless of rarity, you don't just hold someones item hostage because you got a lucky roll

 

A person who pays for improving still owns the item so therefore that item must be returned having been improved as per contract. 

 

I realise that we are talking about a game here, however, I cannot imagine a person who fails to act in good faith lasting for long in Wurm. It is for this reason that if I were looking for a person to improve an item I would be searching for one with good reputation and a reasonably long-term history- this could of course be an issue with the new servers.

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Or simple theft. 

 

If in RL you give me your 50 year old electric guitar so I can repair the wood, recondition it and clean it it's still your guitar, even if I charge money from said repairs. If its market value rises after it has been reconditioned, so be it. But  it's not my guitar. If I keep it, it's theft.

 

The fact we have to explain the definition of theft in Wurm is funny.

 

It reminds of a physchological study by Dan Ariely about "Why we cheat and steal". He has a nice presentation here about it : 

 

Basically the summary of his studies is that "the greater the mental disconnect between an object and money, the more people are likely to steal and/or not consider the consequences of that theft". 

 

His example : Leave some coke bottles in a public food fridge at MIT (similar to work fridges). People randomly took them.  

However when he left a plate with some 1$ bills on it in the same fridge, no one took them. People realised the value of said money but mentally disconnected any monetary value from the coke bottles they took. Do coke bottles do not cost money?

Similarly people can steal a pen or some work supplies from their workplace. But if someone left a few bills on a desk, it's highly likely those bills would never be stolen. The mental association between paper currency = money is stronger thus likelyhood of theft decreases. 

 

I see the same behavior in Wurm. People agree on silvers for work/services. 

 

I pay a guy to imp a huge axe, say 3 silvers to 90 ql. The huge axe turns supreme. He then becomes petty and demands more / refuses to return the axe since it's now his.

 

Why? One powerful influence is the mental disconnect between the basic social / financial contract society is based on and how we perceive the value of things.  Someone looks at something shiny in a game, wants those pixels and doesn't realise the mental connection between keeping your word about your initial contract/ agreement. 

 

It might also be a case of new servers = new breed of players.

 

Maybe I am just rambling. 

 

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1 hour ago, elentari said:

The fact we have to explain the definition of theft in Wurm is funny.

 

Oh my yes. That astonishes me especially when it comes to that deed it or lose it cliché. If I give you guitar to improve and aliens will land in your house and turn my guitar into gold or platinum one, it is still my guitar. Theft is a theft, simple as that. 

Edited by Platyna

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34 minutes ago, Platyna said:

 

Oh my yes. That astonishes me especially when it comes to that deed it or lose it cliché. If I give you guitar to improve and aliens will land in your house and turn my guitar into gold or platinum one, it is still my guitar. Theft is a theft, simple as that. 

 

Yes I agree, so if someone invites someone to a deed and they go into an unlocked chest and take his armour, its still theft even if its not classed as such by the rules ( people would say if you give access its your own fault ), or if a new player who joins your deed leaves a BSB open, its still theft if you just help yourself without asking, kicking the person off deed doesn't solve the issue either.....

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Back to the subject, it is not theft. Rather it is embezzlement once the imper retains the original item, and attempted (accomplished) blackmail/extortion when he demands (gets) an additional fee for other than out of the free will and decision of the owner.

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I touched up someone's chisel and rared it with a couple imps which I was casting for free on and still gave their own back. The only situation I think something like this was okay would be if you clearly let the customer know ahead of time that you would replace it in kind or add a charge (but you'd have a very hard time getting customers).

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I remember once upon a time people use to charge a flat fee for the QL imp, and a conditional flat fee if they turn the item rare/increase the rarity. 

I havent seen this in a long time, but i remember it use to be really common to see that rare roll clause on improving posts.

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1 minute ago, beach said:

I remember once upon a time people use to charge a flat fee for the QL imp, and a conditional flat fee if they turn the item rare/increase the rarity. 

I havent seen this in a long time, but i remember it use to be really common to see that rare roll clause on improving posts.

 

Yes and if that was agreed before items changed hands, its fair and gives the buyer the option to use the service or find someone else.

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12 hours ago, Ngin said:

That's right you would have to send the item back to the owner that's what you have agreed on unless you provided some extra information like a Disclaimer or something, otherwise you will probably get a tip or nothing just like real life. I totally forgot about the creator name on the item nice detail.

 

I'm confused, are you replying to your own question OP?

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49 minutes ago, Hoonsuit said:

 

I'm confused, are you replying to your own question OP?

I am also confused because the question was all about  "How would you deal..." and not "How should I deal" , I guess that was an answer to the second one.

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