Samool

Wurm Online Roadmap - What's after Steam?

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13 minutes ago, Cipacadrinho said:

The only issue i have with fatigue removal would be how wisdom of vynora would work then giving people unlimited easy supply of sleep bonus like it happened on the Northern Cluster.

That could easily be reworked. 

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On 12/5/2020 at 3:39 AM, Madnath said:

 

The feeling is mutual given you've stretched logic and spouted incorrect information over multiple posts to try and justify a crappy viewpoint on a system you clearly have no knowledge on, and trying to spout a playstyle as correct in a game as wide and varied as Wurm.

Let's not pretend I've come in here to specifically point out the flaws in what you've said. You came in with a boulder on your shoulder to make logic leaps to try and enforce a viewpoint that makes people like me and Plat to be bad.

When in reality, the only thing that seperates our accounts is the knowledge of the person behind them. Not even time.

 

Also how can you ban account selling but allow 2-3 people sharing still? It's cut from the same cloth, so if someone's login IP is different they can go "Oh I'm just account sharing lol"
when you very well might have bought the account can't just ban one or the other. That's my Logic and it sure isn't a leap boy.

 

Now again, tell me why fatigue exists exactly and where you were when it was implemented? 

 

 

Edited by Jeston

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14 minutes ago, Jeston said:

Now again, tell me why fatigue exists exactly and where you were when it was implemented? 

Fatigue was added to incentivize buying more premium accounts, as every single reason you could ever give for the fatigue system being a thing can be subverted by buying more accounts. Was it to Stop macroing? You can just macro more with more accounts, and you wouldn't macro one account 24/7 as that's suspicious anyway. Was it to Prevent account sharing to grind 24/7? Those 3 people sharing the account can just share more accounts between each other and grind each of them until fatigue anyway. Was it to Prevent one person from playing 16h a day? They can just split their grinding between two accounts. The entire fatigue system is broken by paying for another account much like priest restrictions are, and at its heart is solely a cash grab.

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I'd love to see how somebody can explain the need to grind 6-8-10 hours a day in a game of constant interaction and gains.. but than again I can imagine a human being that is not a growth out of a computer or merged with one in some way.. so pretty sure I wouldn't understand it either way..

 

milkdrop how do you play exactly, login and instantly start to press create or play the macro button to improve/repair stuff to grind something to 100? (not claiming that you macro, just curious how you claim that you need that much time as kind of only way to not literally **** up your fingers or hands and grind 24/7 or the very close to that with just 5-8 hours of sleep and rest spend grinding online in a game.. is to bot it, MEANING.. you're either selfharming yourself with such prolonged sessions or doing close to that sessions and sole repetition of saily overgrinds will eventually give you health issues)

 

Maybe just maybe... somebody thought it's good to think about your health, for example warframe constantly spams you every few hours that you've been playing for xx amount of hours and it's good to take a break. What is the reason behind that.. Never bothered to check.. but there must be some :)

 

There's nothing normal in 6-8h long hour grinds on daily basis, to say the least will expand the work staff have to do and monitor who does what/how long/in what way/enforce captcha botting checks of some intrusive ways to more people/etc.

I have NEVER seen a bot check question... and I have done 10-12hour long grinds doing either 1 day long grind or being 2-3-4 days of long sessions.. to reach fatigue limit, that stuff can bring you to burnout, maybe one reason to not drop it is to not lose players due to burnouts.

 

If you pay for tv-cable or internet.. do you insist to watch 24/7 all content or at least 1 channel for the full time?

Wonder if you chase utilization and min/maxing of your spending for other services and bills?

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27 minutes ago, Finnn said:

milkdrop how do you play exactly, login and instantly start to press create or play the macro button to improve/repair stuff to grind something to 100? (not claiming that you macro, just curious how you claim that you need that much time as kind of only way to not literally **** up your fingers or hands and grind 24/7 or the very close to that with just 5-8 hours of sleep and rest spend grinding online in a game.. is to bot it, MEANING.. you're either selfharming yourself with such prolonged sessions or doing close to that sessions and sole repetition of saily overgrinds will eventually give you health issues)

 

As I said before, I ran into it 3 times in 8 years - but if you read properly - what bugs ME is that I pay for 30 days of playtime, but only get about a third of what I paid for.

What makes it even worse is, that for anyone unfamiliar with the fatigue mechanic and said situation - it is not explained anywhere before you purchase a sub, people will only figure it out once they ran into it and bother to think further.

Are you ok with paying for something you are not fully delivered?

 

I knew what I got myself into when I hit the sub button by now yes, new players not.

You can argue now that a new player will not hit it anyhow, but you may see that this is not the point of the issue either.

 

But to answer your question, this mainly happens when I have vacation from work and focus on playing.

I login at about 8am and play until midnight or longer, the times I ran into the issue was when I had actions going constantly - which was always surfacemining or mining in general (I have a seperate mag priest just for mining so yes, that char is doing nothing else, standing there and mining - two to three days into doing this fatigue is usually hit) and what even surprised myself, when I rolled my new char on Cadence 2 months after the Steam Servers launched, I took  1 week vacation from work, 3-4 days into those 9 days (including the weekends here) I ran into fatigue issues and noticed I had to micromanage my fatigue timer, terraforming took big bites out of it so I was forced to hunt for a few hours a day so I would have some fatgiue I could spend on carpentry or blacksmithing.

 

If this is healthy or not is of no ones concern but my own, I am old enough, thanks though.

(And usually I have a 30m workout in my daily routine, during vacation this drops or is moved or extended or shrunk accordingly to my needs.)

Also, no other MMO babysits it's players and also... that is not the point of this discussion.

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4 hours ago, Jeston said:

Also how can you ban account selling but allow 2-3 people sharing still? It's cut from the same cloth, so if someone's login IP is different they can go "Oh I'm just account sharing lol"
when you very well might have bought the account can't just ban one or the other. That's my Logic and it sure isn't a leap boy.

 

Alright so let me start off by saying thank you. Thank you for saying something so silly that my retort somehow won most liked content of the day. I'm truly humbled.

Back on topic...

 

As far as the account sharing goes, I see you still haven't taken my advice of "Read -> comprehend -> post" because like I said before, and I will even bold it for you, I HAVE MY OWN RESERVATIONS ABOUT IT.

And just to help you out:

Spoiler

EliLQpx.png

 

Your logic leaps are elsewhere, and they're leaps. Your absolutely abhorrent retorts about people being "psuedo macroers" and all that crap I've already addressed.

 

4 hours ago, Jeston said:

Now again, tell me why fatigue exists exactly and where you were when it was implemented?

 

As far as this tripe goes, Oblivion already answered for me. A previous comment also seems to imply you get 16 hours a day which is not the case. You get one hour of fatigue every three hours, which means you get eight hours of fatigue back per day. If you do a couple of days of actual work, not just standing around doing jack all, you'll quickly see your fatigue drop down to a scarly low number or close to 0.

As far as "where I was when it was implemented" that's not even relevant. You clearly weren't around when it came into the game, and don't even understand the system. I'd suggest you try and think of the things you say before you say them.

This is the only thing I can really do as far as that comment goes:

6J9DjgT.png

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You're paying for premium - ability to use skills over 20, characteristics over 30, if you have such.. and that's what you get.. along with event rewards, maybe missing a perk or 2.. but pretty much anything else is available also to f2ps.

https://www.wurmpedia.com/index.php/Account_Types#Premium
You're not purchasing ability to spam(read act as robot, not possible to grind nonstop due to human restrictions: physical and mental exhaustion, etc) actions 24/7, correct me if I'm wrong.

Maybe you despise being human also or it's just the part where you'd like to run a macro 24/7, because that is in tos and it's banned, on the other hand.. even if you wanted to 24/7 grind something during your 30days~ of premium subscription.. you're not able to do so, should you blame yourself  for your sleep/work and other restrictions preventing you to utilize the full time of such monthly costs of ~$6.66(was it..) or even less(-25% with black friday discount)?

 

Your only argument is that you can not grind whole day in a game, but it's part of the package, nobody really said 'hey this is antibotting'

But the game is more than continue or improve/repair cycle of actions, nobody restricts you to do just 1 thing.

Rifts happen once every 9 days.. should they happen every 2 hours so you can experience the full potential of 24/7 runs, over the course of the full 12 months?

Should we also pop uniques every 10minutes as they rip so fast with a group, why not spawn them nonstop to make all armor obsolete, same for skills, lets let all players reach 99 in 2-3 months and quit the game because they have nothing to do.

 

Do you have a skill at 100, are you chasing to get one? I have in less years run into the fatigue wall more than you(mining and shipbuilding), and I know it's not healthy and certainly can not give a ...... to keep doing it, as 1-2 such session dips you into a burnout.

Key is to grind if you must like "an animal", a true keyboard-warrior or.. w/e it's called nowdays depending who and how it's being done.. once you reach the cap, do something else or take a break.. it's a hint that you need one.

 

Fatigue is also protecting old players who have grinded to 90-100.. sure 70-90 can be reached in a week or 2.. but you can't keep going.

 

Wasn't fatigue turned off on new cluster from start or somebody whined that it's not possible to outgrind others and it was turned off to get a headstart?

 

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Finn, your problem there is you are quoting Wurmpedia.

The Fatigue System and the issues it entails need to be readily available to anyone who makes a purchase on the wurmonline.com site or within the shop.

People need to know what they buy into before they hit "purchase" and it should not be hidden in a fineprint or in some Wiki that you have newbies to teach how to use in the first place.

 

The Webshop says:

Note that one month of premium time is actually 30 days of premium time instead of one calendar month because the number of days in a calendar month varies. 

And thats all it say regarding those details, underlining you pay for 30 days premium.

 

The Wiki also, to use your own link against you, nowhere states that actuall meaningful playtime is NOT 30 days or anything regarding Fatigue.

Fatigue is a subtraction of meaningful playtime and should be visible to any customer.

Right now it is a hidden thing and devs hoping no one will run into it.

 

Any lawyer will tell you, that the way you put it is a trap "ohhh we told you what you pay for in the Wiki, that there is a hidden caveat to it and you did not know about it is your problem" wont fly in legal ways. Specially if you consider how every other MMO on the web handles it, you pay to play for a given amount of time, that is the norm (and in wurm case it is 10,5days per month of playtime IF you optimize your skilling, otherwise it may be less).

Any MMO which derives from said norm should make it clearly visible, because under the grand umbrella of MMOs and how subscriptions work it is a general assumption anyone would make.

You can only hold someone responsible for a wrong decision if they had a f air chance to get said information before hitting the purchase button.

 

Your only argument is "mimimi I am being outgrinded by people with more time to play than I have", but that issue is in your head, you enjoy the game as is, you are not hindered or blocked from playing the game while other people are, other people can not play the game because of the fatigue system being a roadblock and those people paid just as much as you did for their premium time.

And don't come at me with "but I paid X years worth by now while they are new.", every other MMO would laugh at you.

"No, people who freshly join $random_MMO should only be able to advance 10 levels per month, so I can keep ahead of them cause I play longer." is a very outdated mindset.

We have had new players run into this issue, one even made a thread on the forums here 2 or so years ago and he eventually quit because people argued like you do and he could not freely play.

 

Wurm encourages grinding, it is the soul of the game we all love to play and each of us worries about its health in their own way.

I would love to see the game open up more in some regard, removing fatigue will not stop anyone from playing as they do right now but it will enable old and new players to play without having to minmax around this artifical roadblock.

 

I have 4 weeks of vacation coming up, I know already now it wont be fun because of fatigue and it wont be fixed in time either.

I will be forced to play other games when fatigue hits me, regardless if I want to use my vacation time on Wurm or not.

 

I have yet to see one meaningful reason to keep fatigue in the game as is.

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You can ask for better statement on what you purchase, but it doesn't change the fact that you pay for 30 days of premium and that you get same perks for the same time you pay for.\

 

bull... plenty of games have events that give you the good stuff.. but they are limited by some event/dungeon/etc point recovery system where you can do x number of runs and than have to wait for y amount of time to recover z amount of points to do another run on same day.. if you keep up the same thing for 24h.. you'll harm your daily rotation for next day.. unless it resets at some point with a 24h rotation..

 

So.. you're telling me that is NOT a thing in other games? You must be new to mmo games, really really new.  

 

--edit

1 hour ago, Milkdrop said:

I have yet to see one meaningful reason to keep fatigue in the game as is.

you do get reasons, you chose to ignore them and provide one lone case of 2 times when you wanted to super mine a huge cave and reach fatigue over the course of 3 days, and you usually play on a weekend, which kind of covers your free time and gives you time to rest to start the new week normally.. 

I am yet to see a problem here as you get to have your super grind on the weekend, and the game provides you with a reason to get a healthy break in the end.

Edited by Finnn

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1 hour ago, Finnn said:

You can ask for better statement on what you purchase, but it doesn't change the fact that you pay for 30 days of premium and that you get same perks for the same time you pay for.\

 

bull... plenty of games have events that give you the good stuff.. but they are limited by some event/dungeon/etc point recovery system where you can do x number of runs and than have to wait for y amount of time to recover z amount of points to do another run on same day.. if you keep up the same thing for 24h.. you'll harm your daily rotation for next day.. unless it resets at some point with a 24h rotation..

 

So.. you're telling me that is NOT a thing in other games? You must be new to mmo games, really really new. 

Limited run events for new/unique/special gear =/= regular gameplay

You're comparing apples and pineapples here.

 

What're the reasons we've been given for fatigue to be in the game then Finn? What have we missed?

Edited by Madnath

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you must have a really old brain if you think grinding for 6-8h is a lot

 

in the first 30 days of the steam launch i had 22 days of playtime and a majority if that was watching timers go down. 100% wouldve hit the fatigue wall several times if it wasn’t disabled for those 2 months

 

only reason it was re-enabled was because doing thay is easier than putting in effort to fix a stupid spell (wisdom of vynora)

 

(ps they disabled it without saying anything after a player pm’d a dev about it because they knew its a bad system and would piss off new players diving into a new cluster.)

Edited by RainRain

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I think the discussion about fatigue has been going on so long that you can no longer beat the dead horse due to fatigue. 

 

It's certainly something that has been in discussion with the dev team as well, and we will continue to discuss it. 

 

Arguing amongst each other here doesn't help the discussion, so I think at this case the matter is best left dropped, please. 

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I think people are just restless due to the lack of communication on new content (or even old content being added to northern servers), people are making their own content instead on the forums.

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6 hours ago, Retrograde said:

I think the discussion about fatigue has been going on so long that you can no longer beat the dead horse due to fatigue. 

 

It's certainly something that has been in discussion with the dev team as well, and we will continue to discuss it. 

 

Arguing amongst each other here doesn't help the discussion, so I think at this case the matter is best left dropped, please. 

I can appreciate the communication on the matter and I'm glad discussion is/was happening regarding it.

I do sincerely hope some sort of decision is made that benefits the players and hopefully, kill this argument from happening again.

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How hard can it be to implement a captcha function IF you hit 0 fatigue? Sheeesh, it's 2020!

IcFHktQ.png

 

(for real, care about your own crap, if someone plays 16h a day legit without macros, it's none of your business)

 

Official streams when?

 

 

 

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42 minutes ago, Donutkebab said:

How hard can it be to implement a captcha function IF you hit 0 fatigue? Sheeesh, it's 2020!

IcFHktQ.png

 

(for real, care about your own crap, if someone plays 16h a day legit without macros, it's none of your business)

 

Official streams when?

 

 

 

who says it's not core feature to prevent oversaturation of services or changes done by 1 character for a given time?

people for years have been using multiple accounts to workaround the fatigue and provide more bulk or ql improvement services

 

captcha idea... lets not talk about it

lately bots are better than humans at reading captchas..

 

neither old nor new features have deep explanation or view of things, old or current dev team never gives in-dept view how something works(mechanics/items/abilities/...), why it works like that, what future holds for specific play or possibilities to explore in the game

 

it's a sandbox, something that wurm on steam or wiki seems to put in tiny letters and just claims to be mostly an MMO, where we know which is the better section where it fits.. but that's irrelevant..(meaning you do what you can do with the set of options you create for yourself(within tos))

 

 

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Not sure how they can assuage their macro paranoia. Stealing play time from people certainly isn't the way. Worse still, not telling people they are doing it pre subbing is most underhanded. 

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5 hours ago, TheMacGregor said:

Not sure how they can assuage their macro paranoia. Stealing play time from people certainly isn't the way. Worse still, not telling people they are doing it pre subbing is most underhanded. 

I have some historical understanding of that paranoia. It may stem from the RMT era when a bot may have meant a cash milking machine, and thus was attempted more than once. Still, automatic anti macro mechanics are evolution's way to create more sophisticated macros, so those attempts were and are doomed. Would be good to tidy up that mess (fatigue only one of them).

 

There are ways to monitor suspected cheating silently, with admins invisibly observing suspects for a while before catching them in the act. That is the normal way of cheat monitoring which is certainly pursued in Wurm as well.

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On 10/8/2020 at 12:28 PM, Samool said:

Included in those updates will be a large exploration focused update, intended to make the wilderness of Wurm more interesting to explore,

 

This is all well and good, and I really look forward to what this might mean, but many of us ALREADY find Wurm's wilderness interesting to explore.  What we could really use is some kind of skill/characteristic ticks for exploration.  While others put time into other interests, all of those pretty much tick something whereas exploration is about the only activity that ticks nothing.

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On 10/8/2020 at 12:28 PM, Samool said:

The final thing that I want to announce today is that we're also currently working on a long desired and requested feature which is a complete account system, the main purpose of which is to consolidate character ownership into a single account, improve the security of your accounts and ease the management of them. This will also help us with adding some more features that you could manage about your characters without logging into the game, improve account recovery methods and more.
We'll reveal more details on this soon.

 

 

Can we please know a little more about when this will happen?  Or at least a definition of what "soon" means in this context?

Edited by TheTrickster
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On 2/4/2021 at 7:28 PM, TheTrickster said:

 

 

Can we please know a little more about when this will happen?  Or at least a definition of what "soon" means in this context?

soon  normally means within the next 10 years...

Edited by azuleslight

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On 5/10/2017 at 1:58 PM, Budda said:

The account system is well underway, with work ongoing for getting the game servers and the account system connected and working together so various things regarding accounts and characters can be managed from the web and update on the servers instantly. The web shop we are working on updating more with plans to look at having items directly available from the shop instead of just silver. The items that will use this new system will be specific cosmetic items that aren’t available in game via any other means, such as the upcoming golden mirror.

its gonna be sick as if they've been working on it nonstop for 3 and a half years i bet

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Posted (edited)
On 10/7/2020 at 10:28 PM, Samool said:

The surge in popularity has definitely exceeded our expectations and it seems like it can give us some headroom in expanding the development team, which should help us increase the development pace of both new features and bug fixing. Most of you might not know this, but we have had very few hired or contracted developers for quite a while now, much fewer than you would expect from a game of this scale - but we’re well on the way to fixing that. (and if you are interested yourself in becoming either a volunteer developer or a contractor, feel free to contact me with the relevant details at samool@wurmonline.com )

 

I ask for your patience in this part, as it might take us a while to actually get to that point, and the recruitment and training itself might be taking some time away from the direct development in the meanwhile, but after that’s sorted out we will be going ahead faster than ever. And obviously, any new developers will be put on the mandatory bug duty first, fixing those pesky recurring bugs! :) 

 

In addition to expanding the dev team, we’re expanding our marketing efforts as well, which we’ve already started on - we haven’t been great about that before, but we have a lot of ideas in store for promoting the game now and in the future, and you might’ve already seen some Wurm ads around the web.

 

Can we get an official update on this portion of the road map? Some actual details of what is going on behind the scenes. 

 

Edit: I am also curious, whether the just released information from GameChest Group about the new marketing agreement they made ( To cover their sub based businesses which I assume includes WO ) covers a part of this for the marketing, and whether this new information played any part in the change of community manager or whether it changed that role.

Edited by Tek

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On 10/7/2020 at 10:28 PM, Samool said:

Included in those updates will be a large exploration focused update, intended to make the wilderness of Wurm more interesting to explore, with different random encounters to be had around the world. Something we are looking at as well is a unique creatures rework, as well as some more chances to brush up on some less used skills. This update overall should provide a less grindy alternative to other features of Wurm, and in general make PvE gameplay more varied.

 

We also intend to expand further on the construction features, adding both new building elements and decorative items and features. One of our desired features that we’ve been playing with are docks, which would allow you to create structures on water. On the decoration side, a popular suggestion (as well as something we want to see in the game) is hanging items on walls - we’ll be looking at how we can add that.

Animal keeping is another feature that we feel has much more potential to be realized. We’ll be working on expanding that part and making keeping different animals a more varied and in-depth feature, with perhaps a new animal or two thrown into the mix.

Yes!! Katrat does a happy dance!

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