Samool

Wurm Online Roadmap - What's after Steam?

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The economy of wurm is somewhat a mixture of problems.  

 

Ask yourself a moment; why can players drive down the price of a 90 QL pickaxe to the same price as a 40 QL pickaxe?

 

If both items are the same price, why would a player ever buy the QL 40 pick?

 

The skillgap means a skilled (95 blacksmithing) player with an utmost iron vein (not uncommon) can make QL 90 tools at roughly the same rate a middle of the line Smith (50 blacksmithing) can churn out QL 40 tools.

 

Regardless of any form of skill drain, this situation will persist; and it forms part of the problem

 

1.  There is no incentive to buy low QL tools over high QL ones.

 

2.  The production of high QL items isn't "difficult" once you have high skill.

 

3.  Both tools can be drawn from the same basic resource node.

 

From here we can also see that...

 

4.  Items persist indefinitely, so a higher quality tool is always a better investment

 

Next we come to the matter of magic; on wurm priests are designed to be alts.  All magic is tied to 2 skills; one of which is an afk grind (faith) and one of which is a cheese grind (channeling).  Once a player has high enough skills, a priest alt becomes a "good investment"; further elevating their wares.  Thus we have...

 

5.  Magic is easily alted, so high quality tools are usually further enhanced by enchants.

 

The existence of highly skilled characters isn't the real problem here; the issue is low QL items have far less utility for the same basic material cost.

 

Changing how items are improved (making them need progressively rarer resources to improve at higher QLs such as quenching in source etc) and linking wurm's magic to more than just two skills is a far better and longer lasting solution as it takes out 2, 3 and 5.  This would force up the price of these prestige tools due to their difficulty to produce and increased difficulty to maintain.

 

However we're still left facing 1 and 4; with 4 being unsolvable as to do so would violate wurm's character and 1 being a huge upheaval as it would require a change in the very way wurm is played 

Edited by Pandalet
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I remember the skill decay all too well. I surely do not miss it. Not long before they got rid of it i had a large digging project . i forgot to take the time and do the chore of getting a skill tick in all my skills that were high enough to be penalized. Was a pain in the butt. It was also buggy as the decay would keep going until it lowered it to 50 and was supposed to stop. One of the guys in the village had his taken down to the 30's when he stopped playing for a while. I am also pretty sure that it sometimes took skill away when it was not supposed too. So no I would rather not revisit the extra chore of maintaining skill again.

 

Not to mention if its implemented and got a bug and did not work as expected and you lost a lot of skill they will never give it back to you. That was always the policy with bugs.

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17 minutes ago, Etherdrifter said:

The economy of wurm is somewhat a mixture of problems.  

 

Ask yourself a moment; why can players drive down the price of a 90 QL pickaxe to the same price as a 40 QL pickaxe?

 

If both items are the same price, why would a player ever buy the QL 40 pick?

 

The skillgap means a skilled (95 blacksmithing) player with an utmost iron vein (not uncommon) can make QL 90 tools at roughly the same rate a middle of the line Smith (50 blacksmithing) can churn out QL 40 tools.

 

Regardless of any form of skill drain, this situation will persist; and it forms part of the problem

 

1.  There is no incentive to buy low QL tools over high QL ones.

 

2.  The production of high QL items isn't "difficult" once you have high skill.

 

3.  Both tools can be drawn from the same basic resource node.

 

From here we can also see that...

 

4.  Items persist indefinitely, so a higher quality tool is always a better investment

 

Next we come to the matter of magic; on wurm priests are designed to be alts.  If a Dev member says otherwise they're either lying or brain damaged.  All magic is tied to 2 skills; one of which is an afk grind (faith) and one of which is a cheese grind (channeling).  Once a player has high enough skills, a priest alt becomes a "good investment"; further elevating their wares.  Thus we have...

 

5.  Magic is easily alted, so high quality tools are usually further enhanced by enchants.

 

The existence of highly skilled characters isn't the real problem here; the issue is low QL items have far less utility for the same basic material cost.

 

Changing how items are improved (making them need progressively rarer resources to improve at higher QLs such as quenching in source etc) and linking wurm's magic to more than just two skills is a far better and longer lasting solution as it takes out 2, 3 and 5.  This would force up the price of these prestige tools due to their difficulty to produce and increased difficulty to maintain.

 

However we're still left facing 1 and 4; with 4 being unsolvable as to do so would violate wurm's character and 1 being a huge upheaval as it would require a change in the very way wurm is played 

 

It's a pity I can only like this once.


I have already written some ideas on how to solve these problems in my suggestions.

The market for low ql tools, weapons and armors can only be given after implementing the skill cap needed to use the ql of a given item. It doesn't have to be a hard cap, but some form of limitation. Your butchering skill is 10 then using a 90ql knife will not be a good idea for you.

 

Limiting priests would also be useful, fellow priests do not like me anyway for claiming that their magic tricks are overkill, but in my opinion a priest who can enchant an item, e.g. 50ql tools, should have blacksmithing at a minimum level of 50.

I know, I know, priests have different skill development restrictions, but that's good, it would keep magic items from appearing so quickly after launching a new map. High ql magic items would be rare and expensive. The profit for priests would be the same or maybe even greater, but the market for a regular crafter would be different.

 

 

 

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2 hours ago, Darnok said:

 

It's a pity I can only like this once.


I have already written some ideas on how to solve these problems in my suggestions.

The market for low ql tools, weapons and armors can only be given after implementing the skill cap needed to use the ql of a given item. It doesn't have to be a hard cap, but some form of limitation. Your butchering skill is 10 then using a 90ql knife will not be a good idea for you.

 

Limiting priests would also be useful, fellow priests do not like me anyway for claiming that their magic tricks are overkill, but in my opinion a priest who can enchant an item, e.g. 50ql tools, should have blacksmithing at a minimum level of 50.

I know, I know, priests have different skill development restrictions, but that's good, it would keep magic items from appearing so quickly after launching a new map. High ql magic items would be rare and expensive. The profit for priests would be the same or maybe even greater, but the market for a regular crafter would be different.

 

 

 

No skill cap requirements to use certain tools thx 

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I think we could use some "really useful" uses for Wool - like, why can't i use wool to make strings and why can't i patch wounds with it? Fo needs to accept is, aswell with a good favor per QL of Wool! Tapestries etc. is just so limited to have around. We just dump wool on the ground and wait for decay so far

 

     How about Wool Blankets for the bed that can be removed in the summer and added in the winter? Wool Coats and Ugly Christmas Sweaters?

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6 hours ago, Darnok said:

 

It's a pity I can only like this once.


I have already written some ideas on how to solve these problems in my suggestions.

The market for low ql tools, weapons and armors can only be given after implementing the skill cap needed to use the ql of a given item. It doesn't have to be a hard cap, but some form of limitation. Your butchering skill is 10 then using a 90ql knife will not be a good idea for you.

 

Limiting priests would also be useful, fellow priests do not like me anyway for claiming that their magic tricks are overkill, but in my opinion a priest who can enchant an item, e.g. 50ql tools, should have blacksmithing at a minimum level of 50.

I know, I know, priests have different skill development restrictions, but that's good, it would keep magic items from appearing so quickly after launching a new map. High ql magic items would be rare and expensive. The profit for priests would be the same or maybe even greater, but the market for a regular crafter would be different.

 

 

 

I don't think a skillcap for tools would work in wurm; while it does work well in runescape that's because it's a different kind of progression.  Tool efficiency (in terms of skillgain) is already tiered to some degree with lower QL tools being more useful for higher level players.  Some form of bonus, however, for using tools near your skill level (tweak the formulae to make them the optimum for skilling at your level) might be a good idea.

 

In terms of magic, I do support the notion of linking spell efficacy to other skills; however this does raise a few problems for certain skills.  For example, it is MUCH MUCH harder for priests to level most skills compared to crafters because

 

1.  We cant't actually use them the same way (we can't imp, we can only create); so we generally use them less often

2.  The largest ticks from come imping, not creation

 

To implement a system linking magic to other skills there would need to be a way for priests to level those skills (for example, successful enchanting giving ticks in those skills or some other way to scale creation difficulty) at a reasonable pace as well as provide more common utilities for them in the form of additional spells related to them.

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1 hour ago, Etherdrifter said:

I don't think a skillcap for tools would work in wurm; while it does work well in runescape that's because it's a different kind of progression.  Tool efficiency (in terms of skillgain) is already tiered to some degree with lower QL tools being more useful for higher level players.  Some form of bonus, however, for using tools near your skill level (tweak the formulae to make them the optimum for skilling at your level) might be a good idea.

 

Ok, anything will be better than free for all it is now.

 

1 hour ago, Etherdrifter said:

In terms of magic, I do support the notion of linking spell efficacy to other skills; however this does raise a few problems for certain skills.  For example, it is MUCH MUCH harder for priests to level most skills compared to crafters because

 

1.  We cant't actually use them the same way (we can't imp, we can only create); so we generally use them less often

2.  The largest ticks from come imping, not creation

 

To implement a system linking magic to other skills there would need to be a way for priests to level those skills (for example, successful enchanting giving ticks in those skills or some other way to scale creation difficulty) at a reasonable pace as well as provide more common utilities for them in the form of additional spells related to them.

 

If you solve this problem this way, then every crafter will be a priest, because why would he be a regular crafter?

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In the official reddit ama it was said that wurm unlimited will receive updates once "the new steam server calms down"

Where is that on the roadmap?

As excited as I was about this many people in the modding discord said they doubted it. I'm starting to suspect they may be right?

And if they are why lie and tell people there would be updates after saying there wouldn't be anymore???

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7 minutes ago, sleepysprout said:

In the official reddit ama it was said that wurm unlimited will receive updates once "the new steam server calms down"

Where is that on the roadmap?

As excited as I was about this many people in the modding discord said they doubted it. I'm starting to suspect they may be right?

And if they are why lie and tell people there would be updates after saying there wouldn't be anymore???

That never was planned as far as we know. Correct @Retrograde

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On 10/7/2020 at 7:28 PM, Samool said:

We also intend to expand further on the construction features, adding both new building elements and decorative items and features. One of our desired features that we’ve been playing with are docks, which would allow you to create structures on water.

I'm highly interested in this. Would this perhaps be a way to actually make a Deed on water? Highways over water without needing Bridges? More information is needed! 

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3 hours ago, sleepysprout said:

In the official reddit ama it was said that wurm unlimited will receive updates once "the new steam server calms down"

Where is that on the roadmap?

As excited as I was about this many people in the modding discord said they doubted it. I'm starting to suspect they may be right?

And if they are why lie and tell people there would be updates after saying there wouldn't be anymore???

The wurm unlimited beta will be worked on and released. This did not mean continued content updates. 

 

Sorry for any confusion! 

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New construction pieces sound exciting!  Any chance we can get a plastered skin for interior walls?  And ceilings?  Particularly on the top story where the walls don't go all the way up to the roof.  And more rustic looking skin for thatched roof could be a very popular upgrade to an existing asset.

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This is great for long term player retention/ In a few months many those who left will come back.

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This sounds very very exciting, if its even half what it sounds like then I cant wait for the coming months in Wurm :D will be a great trip ahead thats for sure!
Thanks for informing us!

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21 hours ago, Gawain said:

No skill cap requirements to use certain tools thx 

 

This problem can be solved in different ways, the cap is just one of them.
Another one is that it may be an increased damage to the item with each action.

For example according to the formula: if the item has a higher ql than your skill and your skill is 20 or more (noob protection period) then

(item_ql - skill_level) * normal_dmg

for every action will quickly reduce the item to a ql level that you can use.

 

For armors, the skill taken to equation may be FS.

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I'm really sad about the how this game is going. It's fading away again; slowly, but faster than I'd hoped. 

 

There needs to be some excitement injected back into the game, and this doesn't necessarily require any major changes, just something special to give people that push to log in again, or reprem. 

 

This push could be in the form of events, goals, and small bonuses.

 

Some examples off the top of my head: 

  • A weekend with special drops from hunting. For example a "rare leather hunter's hat" cosmetic skin.
  • Special woodcutter's week, where you get an extra 10% on max quality wood, plus a chance for some special drops. For example a special bow cosmetic skin.
  • Miner's week, extra 10% on quality + a higher chance to get gems.
  • Bring back monthly skill gain events, like we had on the steam launch opening weeks.
  • Special premium purchasing deals, buy 2 months, get 1 free.
  • Special cooking recipes events, where a wider range of recipes are dropped from all creatures.
  • Higher Winds Week, where boats receive a 20% speed increase, and the increased tides have unearthed underwater chests for people to hunt out.

 

You get the idea.

 

Other games have these kinds of events extremely regularly to make the game feel more alive, and it makes people feel like there's always a good reason to log in and play.

 

I've made a suggestion thread with the above too, but I thought this was also good place to post it.

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3 hours ago, Darnok said:

 

This problem can be solved in different ways, the cap is just one of them.
Another one is that it may be an increased damage to the item with each action.

For example according to the formula: if the item has a higher ql than your skill and your skill is 20 or more (noob protection period) then

(item_ql - skill_level) * normal_dmg

for every action will quickly reduce the item to a ql level that you can use.

 

For armors, the skill taken to equation may be FS.

Solution is solved currently. Skill takes time to earn and actions have a timer 💁‍♂️

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Let us paint roofs! Please please please pretty please??? All roof types but especially wood shingle. 

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I don't see twitch combat coming to Wurm, but it does need strategy like evading a special move or interrupting a cast when you see the enemy making the action of what they are about to do.  Fluid combat is what is needed.  Eliminating the actual need to watch the combat log in real time is a big one.  Get the MUD concept out of combat.

 

Glad they said something about Jackal not coming.  I was holding out for it and hoping it would be a hunting server to veterans.  Sounds like maybe some of that concept is coming to Freedom since they mention content for veterans.

 

Guess I'll wait a year until they hopefully merge the servers so can go explore something new.  Tried the grind again, but not having fun on new servers being low skilled after 5+ years of this game.  Hunted on all the old servers to much where I know the entire maps by memory.  Glad game is doing well though.

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2 hours ago, Devona said:

Let us paint roofs! Please please please pretty please??? All roof types but especially wood shingle. 

This kind of worries me... to imagine a rainbow roof... we know somebody will do it for the achievement.

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6 hours ago, Finnn said:

This kind of worries me... to imagine a rainbow roof... we know somebody will do it for the achievement.

Why would a rainbow roof worry you? 

 

 

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14 hours ago, Ryaanna said:

I'm really sad about the how this game is going. It's fading away again; slowly, but faster than I'd hoped. 

 

There needs to be some excitement injected back into the game, and this doesn't necessarily require any major changes, just something special to give people that push to log in again, or reprem. 

 

This push could be in the form of events, goals, and small bonuses.

 

Some examples off the top of my head: 

  • A weekend with special drops from hunting. For example a "rare leather hunter's hat" cosmetic skin.
  • Special woodcutter's week, where you get an extra 10% on max quality wood, plus a chance for some special drops. For example a special bow cosmetic skin.
  • Miner's week, extra 10% on quality + a higher chance to get gems.
  • Bring back monthly skill gain events, like we had on the steam launch opening weeks.
  • Special premium purchasing deals, buy 2 months, get 1 free.
  • Special cooking recipes events, where a wider range of recipes are dropped from all creatures.
  • Higher Winds Week, where boats receive a 20% speed increase, and the increased tides have unearthed underwater chests for people to hunt out.

 

You get the idea.

 

Other games have these kinds of events extremely regularly to make the game feel more alive, and it makes people feel like there's always a good reason to log in and play.

 

I've made a suggestion thread with the above too, but I thought this was also good place to post it.

The only issue with that is that it starts to move towards theme park and away from sandbox the "end of personal goals" was a great example of the type of wurmian who plays the moment this was announced so many players went nuts over it and rushed to be part of it and quite a few burned out and some never came back
The same happened during the 30% time people felt pressured to do wurm as much as possible and if it had gone on for long it would have lead to burn out of the game as well for that

Wurmians love wurm for the openness the lack of pressure beyond what they themselves make(unless pvp) adding in events will drive people to focus on only doing those things at the start and will loose track of other things that make them enjoy it
Sure there are plenty of people who it wont matter too but also plenty who do :(

 

 

16 hours ago, Darnok said:

 

This problem can be solved in different ways, the cap is just one of them.
Another one is that it may be an increased damage to the item with each action.

For example according to the formula: if the item has a higher ql than your skill and your skill is 20 or more (noob protection period) then

(item_ql - skill_level) * normal_dmg

for every action will quickly reduce the item to a ql level that you can use.

 

For armors, the skill taken to equation may be FS.

No wurm is a sandbox what makes wurm work when life is feudal failed was the lack of artificial caps on gear and skills like lif added(and 99% of all servers ran without caps because it is hated)
Increasing damage because your skill is low is also silly imagine a ql 31 grinding pickaxe on a 99 miner taking nearly no damage anymore at all or a ql 10 for that matter after all (10-99)*0.2 (0.2 is the damage done to a ql 1 tool for example per action start) would lead to -17.8  either you would have to disable it if skill is higher then item ql or it just starts doing wonky stuff
And even besides that wurm does not need this it does not need caps it is a sandbox game it needs freedom to build and design and create what the game provides without artificial caps to "guide" a player around if you want that life is feudal is right up your alley for that

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5 hours ago, wipeout said:

 

No wurm is a sandbox what makes wurm work when life is feudal failed was the lack of artificial caps on gear and skills like lif added(and 99% of all servers ran without caps because it is hated)

...

And even besides that wurm does not need this it does not need caps it is a sandbox game it needs freedom to build and design and create what the game provides without artificial caps to "guide" a player around if you want that life is feudal is right up your alley for that

 

 

Sandbox mmo also needs a balanced economy, it doesn't exist at the moment in Wurm. If a new player starts the game today as blacksmith, weaponsmith or armorsmith, for a few weeks he will not find anyone to buy a finished product from him.

From the perspective of a player who starts to play a mmo sandbox game where he should be free to do what he wants, but he can't, it is no longer a sandbox.

 

If the game does not need caps, then take off the most burdensome cap in the game ... the action timer. Let's give everyone the ability to create or mine with an action lasting 1 second 🙂
Can you mine ore 100ql as a new player? Or what maximum ql logs you can produce? This game is one big cap if you haven't noticed.

 

Quote


Increasing damage because your skill is low is also silly imagine a ql 31 grinding pickaxe on a 99 miner taking nearly no damage anymore at all or a ql 10 for that matter after all (10-99)*0.2 (0.2 is the damage done to a ql 1 tool for example per action start) would lead to -17.8  either you would have to disable it if skill is higher then item ql or it just starts doing wonky stuff
 

 

Quote

For example according to the formula: if the item has a higher ql than your skill and your skill is 20 or more (noob protection period) then

(item_ql - skill_level) * normal_dmg

 

Read carefully what you are quoting.

 

Edited by Darnok

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On 10/8/2020 at 4:28 AM, Samool said:

One of our desired upgrades has always been an overhaul to how the characters look - while it might be a bit far off right now, we will be looking at improving the character’s appearance along with better customization options.

Could this include an option to choose the height and build of the toons? Would be nice to see tall and short characters and sturdy to skinny too :D

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3 hours ago, Jaz said:

Could this include an option to choose the height and build of the toons? Would be nice to see tall and short characters and sturdy to skinny too :D

 

I hope we get fighters look like fighters not kids with skinny hands...

 

 

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