Darklords

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yeah this is ridiculously skewed, it's all spawning in the exact general area too- it's not even much variance

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The Hunt of the Ancient changes miss the mark on encouraging roaming and group PvP. With both the geographical regions being removed and the pendulum range being obliterated, one can roam the entire map for hours and not find a single camp. Even when a camp is found, you are no closer to knowing where it was found than you were prior to capture, unless you simply speculate based on the time it took and the kingdom that captured.

 

I propose that once a camp is captured, information is release about the location. This would actually incentivize battles surrounding camps that have been captured. Whether it be a pillar of light like a rift, or simply the general region that the camp is located, some indication would lead to more interaction between factions.

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I agree with Gianna  the Hota changes need some adjusting, pendulums need some range back, and frankly after spending 3 hrs roaming I wasnt interested in looking any more or even going back out a day later. Who is going to roam around the entire map trying to find the particular camp that was conquered to start a fight ?

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14 hours ago, Gianna said:

The Hunt of the Ancient changes miss the mark on encouraging roaming and group PvP. With both the geographical regions being removed and the pendulum range being obliterated, one can roam the entire map for hours and not find a single camp. Even hen a camp is found, you are no closer to knowing where it was found than you were prior to capture, unless you simply speculate based on the time it took and the kingdom that captured.

You guys aren't still roaming in one big large group still are you?
That would probably not help find pillars.

If the issue is finding them / replacing ones that are in bad spots, changes could be made to add a new pillar every 30 minutes after hota start, with all previous ones taking a 10 damage tick, unless captured, where they would take 5 or 7.5 damage?

 

Obviously the biggest team is going to want locational info on anyone that's off deed. I think that would be better tied into removing locate soul from the "useless spells nobody casts 90% of the time" category, even though it was annoying to first hand experience getting located quite literally almost every time I left deed at one point, the spell is borderline useless unless someone stealths infront of you.

 

The locate soul range needs minimum doubled, maybe even tripled with a guaranteed range that isn't "a stones throw away", the minimum range could literally be the (200?)tile max that we have currently.

I do think players being more able to gather their own intel instead of having to blindly guess would be a bit better, even situations like us sitting outside of BL's capital, they couldn't even locate names if they wanted to to get an idea of who was there.

 

Plus to me at least it feels a little bit better if people need to work for enemy locations a bit instead of getting spoon fed the info from the game, plus the potential to realize someone's after you by paying attention to your ring, and either getting safe or arranging a counter gank. There's at least some way of knowing someone's after you even if it's a 1-in-5 on your ring sort of thing.

 

tl;dr hope the game moves away from situations with minimal counterplay to literally anything that adds more depth to the game or gameplay.

Edited by Groot

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So one thing I've noticed, that imping bardings is super quick without a doubt which is good, but when it comes to imping chainsets/shields/horse shoes I haven't really noticed much of a difference. Idk if it actually has the up to 75 ql imp buff or not. 

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Drain Health: it needs to get toned down. The range is too long for how stupid short the timer is. It almost make having a shortbow or a bow in general pointless to use as HoTS/Libila Priest.

Phantasm: I've seen it casted 15 tiles away. Similar Issue as it can potentially take a horse out of a fight with little to no risk from the caster.

 

Fix: Decrease the Max Range to like 3 tiles for Drain Health. If said target walks away from the radius, you stop casting.

Fix: Decrease the Max Range to like 5 tiles for Phantasm. If said target walks away from the radius, you stop casting.

 

Scorn of Libila & Light of Fo: need to be severely toned down or reworked. If you can get a full heal on an entire group with that spell because wounds are stacking, there's obviously something wrong there.

1. Scorn heals 30 up to 60 damage PER WOUND. PLUS AoE damage. This spell scales as well.

2. Light of Fo heals up to 5 to 30 damage PER WOUND. NO AoE damage. Does not scale.

 

So a healing spell that heals for more AND does more damage? How is that balanced?

 

It worked well with Shield of the Gone on other servers, but it doesn't work on Defiance. Reason being, all the damage reductions helped separate wounds. I've literally seen people go from bleeding to full health from both Scorn and LoF on Defiance. Of course the response to it is gunna be "Well just tangleweave it" at this point it's not even about that. It's just about the crazy amount it heals for such a large group of people in the event it does go off.... and tangleweave's cooldown can't lock a priest down. As well as getting in range of a priest most of the time as well.

 

A good possible fix would be to remove the damage that Scorn does, and totally tone down the possible max heal to 15 DMG for 2 wounds (30 damage maximum) and up to 3 people MAX at random in a 15x15 within the cast radius of said spell which is roughly a 3x3. Essentially LoF with another name (aka the same exact spell) If you wanna sit there and get a full heal use the "Heal" spell or just use LT/ED weapons to survive not a spell that basically casts "Heal" to 100%. That's just my 2 cents on priests atm. So idk if the dev's wanna take this into consideration or not, but I would. No Scorn of Libila or LoF should practically full heal someone period.

 

Another thing to Consider. To prevent Scorn and LoF spam. Within that 30x30 area of that tile that either spell is casted a 5-10 minute cooldown is set for said spell that is Light of Fo or Scorn of Libila.

 

All in all, these spells should be critical to cast, not a numbers game on who has the most Fo/Libila priests to spam LoF/Scorn.

Edited by Carmichael
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-1 drain health nerf
neutral/no comment on phantasm nerf since rework

 

aoe heals should be bumped from 15 second to 20-25 second range.

Scorn's damage could probably be nerfed down to "just slows" instead of "does 5-8+ damage to everyone on the enemy team"

 

I definitely think there could be consideration towards the maximum amount healed.
I.E even in a perfect scenario a player will cap out at healing 50% of their HP at any given time from aoe heal

I'm not sure the current interactions with healing resistance and AoE heals, but it feels like healing resistance is kinda weak.

 

From my understanding of it, if I throw out a LoF that heals 5 1-damage wounds, I'm going to get minimal resistance build up.

My proposed change is if you're hit with a AoE heal regardless of how much health it heals, stack 50% healing resistance timer on everyone effected off the bat first heal. Have LoF/Scorn not target full HP players at all. This will mean players that don't need the heal (at all) don't eat the first-cast healing resistance, while still effecting dying allies as well as anyone effected by aosp/scorn/painrain/pillars eating (50%) resistance even if they're topped up on health.

Edited by Groot

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How 2 fix LOF/Scorn. Fixed ammount of hitpoints that scale acording to power of the cast:

 

Edited by Zekezor
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 .

Edited by Atndy

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43 minutes ago, Carmichael said:

Another thing to Consider. To prevent Scorn and LoF spam. Within that 30x30 area of that tile that either spell is casted a 5-10 minute cooldown is set for said spell that is Light of Fo or Scorn of Libila.

Healing 60% health will put you at 20 minutes of healing resistance which is 100% resistant ( you won't heal anything until timer goes down), so that's already a thing. LOF/Scorn heal is basically one good heal and then you get nothing at this point due to how insanely fast healing resistance stacks up

 

Does scorn not add to spell resistance like other spells do? if thats a thing for it the second cast should be doing like 10% of the damage of the first cast

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Just now, Oblivionnreaver said:

Healing 60% health will put you at 20 minutes of healing resistance which is 100% resistant ( you won't heal anything until timer goes down), so that's already a thing. LOF/Scorn heal is basically one good heal and then you get nothing at this point due to how insanely fast healing resistance stacks up

 

Does scorn not add to spell resistance like other spells do? if thats a thing for it the second cast should be doing like 10% of the damage of the first cast

We've tested it, with 20 minutes of healing resistance. Scorn will heal 3 30 damage wounds almost entirely.

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20 minutes of resistance is 100% resistance, you will not heal anything, it will straight up multiply the healing pool by 0. if you are healing with 20 minutes that is a bug.

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if there would have been any testing done before the healing resistance change came in, this wouldn't be an issue

 

as others have pointed out however, scorn is almost not affected by the healing resistance change at all

whereas you heal nothing at 20min resistance with a LoF, you still heal the minimum amount from casting a scorn for each player hit

 

stupid

 

shadowlands release date confirmed tho

Edited by Quicktor

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I tested scorn extensively before the healing resistance change and publicized my results.

Scorn has a base pool  PER PLAYER HEALED of around 90% of your health, and increases by 1% per spell power. Scorn will heal 3 wounds base, for a maximum of 33% of the base pool; this means a 0 power cast will heal 3 wounds for 30 health, and a 100 power cast will heal 3 wounds for 60 points each. The amount of wounds healed goes up +1 per enemy hit.

Healing resistance reduces the total pool by resist value per player. So if you get hit by a 0 power scorn at 90% healing reduction, you'll heal 3 wounds for 3 damage each. 6 damage each at 100 power. You spot the problem yet? This means that at 50% reduction, a 0 power scorn still heals 3 wounds for 15 damage each, or a total of 45 health possible.

Scorn can only heal 3 total wounds, +3 per enemy hit, across all players being healed. <- this part is extremely buggy and often scorn doesn't heal that many wounds; it might also just be me misunderstanding the code entirely.

Scorn prioritizes the largest wounds on each player, and selects allies to heal from the NW edge of its radius, then scrolls across east, then south one tile and scrolls across east again. (i think; it def prioritizes NW first tho, not sure about scrolling)


When i was testing scorn, i basically had a friend hit me with a sickle 3 times and then had a scorn popped on me; each wound was ~15-20 dmg.

First cast healed all 3 wounds, put me at aorund 8 minutes of heal reduction.
Second cast healed all 3 wounds, put me at around 15 minutes of heal reduction.
3rd cast finally didn't heal all wounds, but it did heal each wound for about 9-12 points each, still pulling me from around 40% hp to around 75%. This put me to around 19m and 30 seconds of resistance.

I was hit by the last scorn at around 19 minutes and it still healed each wound for roughly 4-6 points, or around ~15% of my total health.

 

Spoiler

double healingPool = 58950.0D;

 

healingPool += 58950.0D * (power / 100.0D);

Each player has 65535 hp
58950 is roughly 90% hp, and the cast power doubles it at 100 for roughly 180% hp

 

Edited by RainRain
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Doublepost to now address LoF

So, Light of Fo actually functions almost exactly the same as scorn, except for 2 things:

1. Light of Fo only heals 5 wounds total, and all 5 of those CAN be on the same player
2. Light of Fo starts at a pool of roughly 25% of someone's life at 0 cast, but gains up to 150% hp healing at 100 cast power, bringing the total to around 175% total healing per person at 100 power
To expand on 2, the 33% limit of total pool still applies per wound. This means a 0 cast spell can heal each wound for up to 8.3% each- and can heal 5 wounds (but obviously the value of the overall heal cant break the total pool). At 100 cast, this becomes a max of 58.3% per wound, and up to 5 wounds (that again, cant break overall 175%)

I can't test LoF, so I can't run numbers and testing, but it does seem that scorn is highly biased towards being good at low channeling, while LoF becomes significantly better at high channeling (which makes sense given that it has a lower difficult) better at all cast powers as far as total heal, but relies on enemies nearby to fully utilize that- though the way it scales is actually pretty silly.

 

Spoiler
double healingPool = 16375.0D;
  healingPool += 98250.0D * (power / 100.0D);

 


Each player has 65535 health
LoF base heal iw 16375, or roughly 25% of 65535
It can gain up to 98250 healing, or 1.5x 65535
Total heal is roughly 1.75x 65353 or 175% hp



Nerf scorn, but unironically.

Edited by RainRain
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20 hours ago, Carmichael said:

So one thing I've noticed, that imping bardings is super quick without a doubt which is good, but when it comes to imping chainsets/shields/horse shoes I haven't really noticed much of a difference. Idk if it actually has the up to 75 ql imp buff or not. 


horse shoes and chain armor definitely do, not sure about shields

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Maybe nerf scorn a little bit but I would much rather see them give us more tools to deal with priests. The shield bashing thing was cool but you still need to be pretty close to interrupt. Give non priests a better way to interrupt spells at range.

 

Maybe make a potion that can silence and then fix throwing so we can throw up to 5 tiles away. Or make throwing a skill that we can grind like archery

Or make it so arrows interrupt spells so that others can swap to a short bow and shot em real quick

Or make another weapon that does little dmg but interrupts spells 100% when you hit someone with it (this way its the priest blocking skill vs their skill)

Or make a current weapon do that

Or make a certain metal type have a 100% chance to interrupt spells on hit

Or make a meditation path give a ranged psychic ability to interrupt one spell a day or something

I don't know much about the healing stuff, it seemed to be working really well when we were fighting our dragon, it stacked up fast and really built up. I wasn't paying a ton of attention to it though.

 

There definitely needs to be a closer look at making a BL pvp priest and a BL pve priest. Right now they just have so much synergy as a kingdom/religion. That combined with their bigger player base gives them an edge that is very difficult to overcome unless we outnumber them heavily.

I really think you should start with giving the non priest players more tools to deal with priests though.

Oh, and also make horses age the first two weeks of their life faster. It's starting to be a factor in whether or not we can go and fight.

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2 hours ago, Oblivionnreaver said:

20 minutes of resistance is 100% resistance, you will not heal anything, it will straight up multiply the healing pool by 0. if you are healing with 20 minutes that is a bug.

 

After I cast light of fo a cure light heals for less than 1hp, shouldn't be bugged.

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sounds like the max resistance for healing is a bit too high and needs to be brought down a bit.

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-1.

 

In honesty don't think there's anything wrong with spells right now other than Scorn originally healed neutral mobs (which has been fixed), and all pillar type spells to next to nothing for damage. It renders Magranon and Vynora pretty useless for spells in PvP. 

 

I don't think the issue is really with the spells. I don't think Libila is over or underpowered, I think BL just has a lot of priests. Almost our entire core group are priests, and that's simply a tactic. It makes it harder to prevent someone from casting when if one person fails, another 5 can do it. If there was 5 Fo priests at a fight it would be equally hard to take that group down.

 

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i think anyone who thinks fights being decided almost based on solely the amount of aoe heal priests isn't looking for "good pvp", but it's not a surprise you're against a nerf on the strongest PvP priest.

I am not sure why lib is a jack of all trades with access to almost all the important pvp spells, as well as doing it all just as good or better.

 

one of the best buffs

best aoe heal, scaling better at both base and especially better in group fights

an aoe WL doesn't even have something comparable to

drain health, a spell that WL doesn't have an equivalent to

lib has singletargets as well as AoE heals, we gotta choose

easiest priest to channel grind

unconditional+conditional CR

 

It's hands down the best priest, called it before the veteran zerg went BL too.

The fact is, even if it's 5 fo's vs 5 libs, the libs have a distinct advantage anyways, because they're the lovechild of fo+mag, plus tools that nobody else has. This scales distinctly harder in the favor of BL the deeper you throw more numbers into the scenario.

If you're going to stack a priest as a jack of all trades balance wise, it doesn't make sense for it to also be better in every way than any of the WL options.

Edited by Groot

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If it's really the best priest and spells, BL would have always been on top across all servers, which isn't the case. Selection is a big drive behind Libila being strong. It's a single God so it has to be able to have to compete not against each WL God, but all three. Threads like this come out immediately after some group wipes and blames it on anything except themselves, and it simply is saying just straight nerf 3 BL spells. Suggestions like this aren't for "good pvp." They're here because if you can't beat them in-game, beat them on the forums. The old Wild way.

 

I'm all for good PvP, but priesthood is a part of PvP. It's knowing how/when to cast. MR has Fo priests that just go into the middle of a fight, and then come time to cast Light of Fo they're de-horsed and easy to target and stop. If you watch a BL videos, people usually scorn a few tiles outside the fight, and tell others to move to them. 

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