Darklords

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7 minutes ago, Zekezor said:

Just make it so everyone can be a priest without restrictions instead and thus everyone can enjoy all features of the game.

Higher enjoyment = Higher player retention & activity

Honestly think this is the way forward but when I said the same thing bl cried a river of tears last time lol.

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1 minute ago, AceRifle said:

Honestly think this is the way forward but when I said the same thing bl cried a river of tears last time lol.

No one is complaining about it, the main issue is that there would just be a lot of work needed for rebalancing if everyone can cast spells. You can contribute to the thread without dragging nonsense into here.

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I don't think that priests really have anything to do with the biggest issue which is incentives and attracting new and existing players to try PvE. Never heard of any new player joining and saying, "Damn, they're all priests. I quit." 

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7 minutes ago, Postes said:

I don't think that priests really have anything to do with the biggest issue which is incentives and attracting new and existing players to try PvE. Never heard of any new player joining and saying, "Damn, they're all priests. I quit." 

Yes and No, I have heard people who are currently playing and some  that stopped because of it. Like I mention before some people don't  want  two account one for pvp priest and one  for crafting gear to make a crafting account or rely on someone to craft for them so they don't play at all. We do need to focus on getting fresh blood but i also think we need to focus on keeping people who we know enjoy playing wurm because in general its not appealing to most.

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Add spell

"Rarefied Air" - 200 favor AoE available to all priests that silences all priests in local for x number of minutes based on cast power. Does not affect priests on deed.

 

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1 hour ago, Olloch said:

nerf lib

just give everyone same spell different name big brains

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rundown of priest issues as far as i see them

1. liabobillaa opp!!!
this isn't actually true but stems from the fact that libila has the most diversified spell list, which is necessary because it's the only god BL can follow. the individual spells labola has are infact almost always weaker than their WL counterparts; but the fact that lets say, in a 10v10 battle if you have 6 priests on each side and it's BL vs WL, the BL side has 6 sources of scorn and other big important spell, but the WL side might only have 1 or 2 sources of lof (since mag is more popular, due to their honestly busted damage bonus and res stone effect)

2. priests, in general, op and impact combat too much
i can sort of agree with this as far as the massive AOE heal spells (both LoF and scorn are frankly too impactful in fights, particularly since healing resistance doesnt do much to either of them until around 50% reduction, and even then the decrease is fairly small until around 75% reduction- although i want to add that builds that work by hitting fast and making several smaller wounds directly counter both lof/scorn, but a lot of people use single big hitters in combat rn instead of one handers), and frankly a few single target spells have no place doing as much damage as they deal (inferno/hypothermiamaybelol/wormbrains)

as far as 1, directly nerfing libila shouldn't really be an option since her spells are for the most part already directly worse (and her unique spells like land of the dead/zombie infestation are literally worthless at the moment) than their WL counterparts, and libila once more needs to be diverse to make up for the fact she is the single BL god, otherwise BL as a whole isn't even worth bothering with. i see two real solutions to this:
1a. simplify all the gods into having the same basic spells and make libila no different than that (im sure nobody wants this)
1b. create a 2nd BL god and completely reshuffle the spells between libila and the 2nd god, so that just like WL kingdoms, BL would need to diversify and select their faith carefully, balancing combat functions vs skilling/noncombat functions

and for 2, as i stated i don't really agree that they are in general too busted aside from a few named abilities, but i want to directly talk about the 2 solutions people are putting out
2a. "let everyone be a priest" is just simply the dumbest solution i can think of for this problem; unless you rebalance every spell to be basically useless, you're going to have every issue we have currently here except 10 times worse- when every enemy has access to a spell book it'll become a new nightmare hell of balance to keep in mind; the only way this works is literally if the 2nd solution is also implemented at the same time lol. if you think people crying about "scorn is op" now is annoying, just you wait until literally every single one of your enemies can scorn, and half of your allies can lof- group combat wouldn't even be fun anymore
2b. "nerf priests into the ground" the problem here is that priesting is (supposed to be, if alts were so stupidly prominent in this game) a big decision for yourself that greatly alters how you play the game in exchange for spells; adding more restrictions greatly devalues that experience and making priests too weak by doing this will discourage a whole lot of people from going priest; also the armor restriction in specific is dumb because oakshell
i think a better approach to priests would be to identify the actual problem spells and see what can be done about them; but also, adding more options for priests would be cool

some ideas i had for example to shorten the gap between priests was having lead have magic nullification properties (as exists in most fantasy settings); despite it being heavy armor and slightly worse for defense, it could serve to boost people's strength more. likewise, maybe have a metal that deals bonus damage against priests- amulet enchants that will attempt to counterspell spells cast on it once before consuming the enchant, and make the stupid elemental/acid resistance buffs more accessable across all priests and some anti-healing spells would be good (i.e a weapon enchant that grants 15% dmg but causes wounds to be made with it not able to be healed at all, or healing effects only heal it 50% as much)

 

Edited by RainRain

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5 hours ago, Zekezor said:

Just make it so everyone can be a priest without restrictions instead and thus everyone can enjoy all features of the game.

Higher enjoyment = Higher player retention & activity

 

^ This ^

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4 hours ago, Postes said:

I don't think that priests really have anything to do with the biggest issue which is incentives and attracting new and existing players to try PvE. Never heard of any new player joining and saying, "Damn, they're all priests. I quit." 

 

Last time I stopped playing was basically this reason, when you are a 40+ body str character on chaos fighting 70+ str characters and you have to choose either be a pvp priest or work on your stats not both, its very frustrating. Only reason I came back is because you can at least grind on pve and priest on pvp now.

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There's fundamental problems with priests in combat simply being superior versions of non-priests, and most proposed changes would probably swing it too far one way or the other in regards to whether or not you should be a priest. You eliminate restrictions, everyone will be a priest. You make priests weaker in combat, nobody will be a priest. You want to find a balance where they can continue to contribute to the kingdom, but there needs to be an incentive to not priest as well.

 

My Proposed Solution

 

Three changes done in tandem that would resolve most of the outstanding issues:

  1. Allow priests to pick up a single profession on Defiance. Magranon can smith, Vynora can be a carpenter, Fo can do tailoring, and Libila can do a restricted version of all 3. Libila would be allowed to do weapon smithing, armour smithing (chain/plate/shield), leatherworking, fletching, and bowyery. This covers all combat-related subskills from those professions. This limits them out of blacksmithing, jewelry smithing, cloth tailoring, ship building, fine carpentry, and toy making. Those would need to be done by non-priests for the HOTS kingdom.
    • The current state of Defiance has most priests doing menial tasks like gathering, making bricks/mortar/planks, and similar. They cannot assist in re-gearing the kingdom for combat. This change allows them to contribute to becoming combat-ready in a meaningful way.
  2. Give non-priests an innate resistance to spells. Hostile spells should have less effect on non-priests. Healing is also a factor, so this could also come with an increase for healing on non-priests or a reduction in healing received by priests.
    • Right now, being a non-priest simply means you don't have access to spells. By making spells less effective against non-priests, it means that the one thing they do not have access to has less impact on them. Instead of priest being a direct upgrade, it's now a choice as to whether or not access to spells is more valuable than the resistance.
  3. Reduce AoE healing potency and revert the vehicle single-target "nerf" thing. In general, both Light of Fo and Scorn heal more than they probably should per-target. A while ago, it was changed that single-target healing spells could not be cast while on a vehicle, including a horse. This is completely nonsensical and downright annoying. Please revert this change.
    • Scorn of Libila and Light of Fo are absolutely spammed in group combat to keep a single player alive. This is not the intended usage of these spells. They heal way too much on single targets and are the most crucial spells in the game right now. Single-target spells like cure light can't be used in combat if you're mounted because opening the character window and then finding the wound takes more time than how long it takes them to move away from you. They're not practical to use in combat at all as a result. Revert the change which limits them from being cast on creatures directly.
    • A new single-target healing spell for Libila similar to Cure Light, or simply giving Libila Cure Light, would be advisable with this change. They currently only have Drain Health and Scorn of Libila for healing. Better balance would be to give them the same tools as WL kingdoms and fix the spells to have proper metagame instead.
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half joke but also half serious: athiests should have incredibly strong spell resistance

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40 minutes ago, Sindusk said:

Revert the change which limits them from being cast on creatures directly.

dis change was dumb

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41 minutes ago, Sindusk said:

A new single-target healing spell for Libila similar to Cure Light, or simply giving Libila Cure Light, would be advisable with this change. They currently only have Drain Health and Scorn of Libila for healing

thanks ill take drain health as fo too since we are balancing

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Just go Guild Wars 2 style and everyone on PvP is the same level (like 50 in body stats and 70 in all other stats) and only gear, special abilities and strategy make the difference.  Make everyone a priest by default too with no limitations.  Then you'll have an even playing field.

Edited by nicedreams

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2 hours ago, nicedreams said:

Just go Guild Wars 2 style and everyone on PvP is the same level (like 50 in body stats and 70 in all other stats) and only gear, special abilities and strategy make the difference.  Make everyone a priest by default too with no limitations.  Then you'll have the ultimate sandbox with an even playing field.

So you are suggesting that no effective difference in characters would be "the ultimate sandbox"?

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1 hour ago, Gianna said:

So you are suggesting that no effective difference in characters would be "the ultimate sandbox"?

 

Edited, but was thinking about the sandbox aspect of building and changing the land.

Edited by nicedreams

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I reckon just make priests physically weaker. Perhaps 70-80% of health of a normal character. More of a glass cannon/support role, depending on what religion you go.

At least then it's a trade off in combat and not just a trade off of do I want to craft or PvP.

I don't think everybody being a priest is the answer, I think it's healthier to have a good mix.

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There are some really crazy ideas floating around here.

 

I think the fact that they are making it easier and faster to imp stuff should help with the non priests regearing people when they lose thing. More of stuff like that is good. Regearing sucks and is antifun.

 

I  think the main solution to priests overpowering everyone in PvP could be solved by a couple of simple things. Give us a way to interrupt priest spells at a distance. Distance is the key here.  (the shield bash update is going to be good, but we need more). Also give us some way to help mitigate priest spell damage. Armor is good vs weapons but what can we do to help defend us against offensive spells?

 

Give us a skill to grind that will help us with either. Give us a tool to use instead of just nerfing or buffing something. 

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8 hours ago, Zao said:

There are some really crazy ideas floating around here.

 

I think the fact that they are making it easier and faster to imp stuff should help with the non priests regearing people when they lose thing. More of stuff like that is good. Regearing sucks and is antifun.

 

I  think the main solution to priests overpowering everyone in PvP could be solved by a couple of simple things. Give us a way to interrupt priest spells at a distance. Distance is the key here.  (the shield bash update is going to be good, but we need more). Also give us some way to help mitigate priest spell damage. Armor is good vs weapons but what can we do to help defend us against offensive spells?

 

Give us a skill to grind that will help us with either. Give us a tool to use instead of just nerfing or buffing something. 

Might be nice if the metal properties were modified to include spell resistance or even spell reflection. Electrum would be a perfect candidate. 

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On 10/19/2020 at 3:36 PM, JamesSnow said:

imo the entire priest restriction system needs a rework, at least on the pvp server. i agree that there should be a downside to priesting up, but losing the ability to craft is the wrong way to go about it. this restriction takes like half the content away from players that priest up. it also puts more stress on players that dont priest up because after a loss they end up having to do all of the crafting. 

I think priests should be able to craft and the nerfs or restrictions should be pvp related. this would make it so 90% of the players dont rely on 10% of the players for gear.

 

Some penalties or restrictions that i think could work are:

-20% damage resistance nerf

-limit priests to leather or cloth armour

-limiting priests to using one handed weapons only.

-small cr nerf

 

I think changes like these would make the pvp server way more healthy and keep player retention higher. im pretty sure the majority of the people who have quit so far are crafters who get burnt out regearing people each fight.

it would also make being a non-priest pvp viable by being more tanky. 

 

Short version: pretty please switch the priest crafting restrictions with pvp restrictions/nerfs. priests can cross to harmony from defiance and craft there anyways so the only thing the current restriction does is burn out non-priests

 

I feel like this route is the way to go.

That way being a priest stays a rather unique experience, but comes with pvp downsides.

I'd love to see priests being limited to cloth/leather armor. People would actually have to bother making the stuff.

Meanwhile priests can do all the imping they want and essentially aren't cut out of half the game.

 

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On 10/19/2020 at 2:36 PM, JamesSnow said:

Some penalties or restrictions that i think could work are:

-20% damage resistance nerf

-limit priests to leather or cloth armour

-limiting priests to using one handed weapons only.

-small cr nerf


I really hope it doesn't need to be said, but the above changes would make priests next to useless in PvP.

 

The idea that priests can sit back in a support "glass cannon" type roll does not fit into the reality of Wurm PvP in the slightest. 

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how is healing and doing 30% or more damage with spells useless?

im 29 channeling and never fail a fireheart and every time they do 25% damage to players or horses

Edited by JamesSnow

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I'm 67 channeling and still fail casting drain health or scorns at least a few times in a fight. 

 

It's hard to take a 20% DR nerf seriously. If you can do 25 dmg with a fireheart, then it's fireheart that needs to be fixed. You don't fix that by doing a 20% DR nerf on priests.

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9 minutes ago, JamesSnow said:

how is healing and doing 30% or more damage with spells useless?

im 29 channeling and never fail a fireheart and every time they do 25% damage to players or horses


And your solution to fireheart being seemingly overpowered is to remove every other PvP option available to priests and make them a one trick pony? 

 

"Your job is to sit at the back and cast fireheart. That's it."

 

There're already several much better solutions suggested in this thread.

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