Darklords

PvP Changes Feedback

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20 hours ago, Darklords said:
  • Weapons/Armour/Toolbelts/Horse gear will increase in quality up to 75 much quicker when improving them to speed up people gearing groups for pvp after a loss.(Defiance Only)

 

 

Amazing change and I don't see anyone having a problem with it. One of the things that sucks is losing horse gear and armor. It takes forever to replace both of those.

 

20 hours ago, Darklords said:
  • Roaming Depo(Defiance Only)
    • Same spawn rules as battle camps.
    • Will announce when it spawns on twitter/event tab.
    • Will first spawn with no indication of where it is, after 5 hours of not being claimed it will give off the effect from the old depo to better help locate it.
    • You claim the loot with a 5 minute action on the depo, after which the depo will vanish until it respawns again.
    • Spawns 24-30 hours after the last one vanishes.
    • Claim Reward
      • 3 lumps of adamantine or glimmersteel(picked randomly)
      • 10 sleep powders
      • 5 75QL horse sets(Shoes/Saddles)
        • Chances these sets will come with varying degrees of WOA precast on them.
    • The intent of this is to get people out and looking for the depo every day or so, hopefully 10 sleep powder and some good possibly enchanted horse gear is enough to get people going out for it.

 

 

Awesome idea. Like others have said having some other random rewards like random bits of armor or weapon skills could be cool too.

 

20 hours ago, Darklords said:
  • Upgraded Chest Loot(Elevation/Defiance)
    • The first person to open a rare chest spawn after it spawns will receive between 1-3 hours of sleep bonus depending on the loot roll of the chest.
    • This is intended to give out more sleep bonus for things done while out roaming.

 

 

Awesome idea.

 

20 hours ago, Darklords said:
  • Hota Changes(Elevation/Defiance/Chaos)
    • 6 battle camps spawn at the same time all over the map with no location information anymore.
    • First to 4 captures wins.
    • First to capture a camp after spawning receives a few pieces of moon metal. Captures after will not give any more.
    • Happens 40 hours after the last event finished.
    • Your kingdom is alerted in event tabs when an enemy kingdom steps onto a battle camp your kingdom owns, it will not say what kingdom but will say which battle camp. This message cannot happen more than once every 30 minutes.
    • Building inside battle camps when you have it claimed still provide all the protections from before.
    • Pendulums will still help find them but will have the range at which they do adjusted to make them much harder to find.
    • These changes will revert hota back to more of an event than something running continuously. Moon metal is still awarded to people who did not win just by trying, and they should not be nearly as easy to find and be dominated by a single group.

 

 

Love it. I don't know about the whole building thing though. Do people actually want to do this? Most people who PVP are priests and I cant really see anyone escorting a large cart with some crafters in it to go build. I think it would just help whoever the battle camp is closest too and entrench it even further. I don't like the pendulum change.

 

20 hours ago, Darklords said:
  • Increased raid windows for lager deeds over 50x50 tiles total in size to 8 hours to give more time to raid larger deeds.
    • Safe zones/deeds smaller than 50x50 stay unchanged.
    • The exact values of this are up for debate so please let us know what you think.

 

 

Great idea. I'd take a look at how big the main cities are in each kingdom and make it that value. 

 

20 hours ago, Darklords said:
  • Scorn no longer heals non tamed creatures.(All Servers)

 

 

Had no idea it did this but that wasn't the main problem with scorn. Horses are normally dead by the time this is being casted. Make it have a longer cast time or give it a longer cooldown might be a better idea. But I don't even know if more of a nerf is needed if the proposed tangleweave and shield bash change goes into effect. I can't speak for everyone but i'd rather you give us more tools to deal with things instead of making things weaker (Like you are doing with tangleweave and shieldbashing).

 

20 hours ago, Darklords said:
  • Shield bash will have a separate easier roll to just cancel actions that may be interrupted along with the roll to stun.(All Servers)
    • Will allow all players a much better chance to kick a spell being cast right next to them without making stuns to common.

 

 

Awesome idea.

 

20 hours ago, Darklords said:
  • Equipping or unequipping a piece of armor will cancel any spells/archery actions currently being cast.(All Servers).
    • Hopefully this should address the concerns about players swapping armor on and off while casting/shooting to get around the penalties.

 

 

Don't like this. I think it takes skill to move away from battle, start casting, coordinate with your guys to come close, and pay attention to if someone comes close. Then you have to press unequip and quickly shift click all your stuff and drag it back while keeping your position in mind. I think it added a cool little bit of micro skill that wurm lacks. I could be in the minority here though. if it goes through I see more people just wearing studded which would make more people use slashing weapon and kind of entrench that meta.

 

20 hours ago, Darklords said:
  • Tangle weave cooldown reduced to 60 seconds/ favor cost reduced back to 15.(All Servers)
    • The nerfs to tangle weave where too heavy handed I admit, we are stepping them back much closer to the original values.

 

 

Awesome idea.

 

20 hours ago, Darklords said:
  • Increased healing resistance a bit more.(All PvP Servers)
    • This is subject to more testing, exact values will be updated when finalized.

 

 

Awesome idea. I think the healing resistance should be HEAVY. We should get one 'Oh ######, im almost dead'  heal, and then you decide if you wanna keep fighting or retreat. Having multiple just rewards which side has more priests which is already a huge problem. Make it reducing healing MORE and for LONGER.

 

20 hours ago, Darklords said:
  • Aggressive creatures(excluding zombies/domestic creatures) you kill will have a chance to place a sleep powder inside the final hitting players inventory. (Defiance Only)
    • The chance for this will be dependent on the CR of the creature and will be an uncommon drop.
    • This will not happen inside the safe zones or on settlements.
    • This is intended to give out more sleep bonus for things done while out roaming.

 

 

Awesome idea.

 

20 hours ago, Darklords said:

 

Future Plans

  • More pvp related points of interest in the world along with the exploration update planned.

 

 

Could this be like archeology on battle or gravesites? That would be AMAZING. I love archeology!

 

20 hours ago, Darklords said:
  • Reworking spell damage/resistances to find a better middle ground between them being useful vs them being spammed especially for pillar spells.

 

 

Right now people ignore pillar spells, they do such little damage.

 

20 hours ago, Darklords said:
  • Looking into WL vs BL priest balance with BL only having 1 god vs 3 WL gods.

 

 

Cool idea, have no idea how to balance it. Would you give us both 2 gods only? Sort of PvP and PvE god? Or give Lib 2 more? There are a ton of ideas on this.

 

20 hours ago, Darklords said:
  • Revised version of player champions on much shorter timescales/less harsh penalties for reverting/different bonuses than just DR.
    • Generally they will be much less powerful than current champions but will still be useful to have with little to no penalty for becoming one, and short several week max duration for them.

 

 

i have no experience with champs but I think that maybe having the length you can be a champ for should be longer if your kingdom has less active players to possibly balance out the population problems? Or make it so less active people in your kingdom means more can be champs. No idea.

 

20 hours ago, Darklords said:
  • New methods of removing kings from office/deciding new kings for base kingdoms.

 

 

I think everyone is happy with who is king but I don't understand why the king can't give his position to someone if he wants to (with a long cooldown of course)

 

20 hours ago, Darklords said:
  • Removing meditation level limits from defiance/elevation with balance consideration for the more overpowered one that it was intended to remove.(Defiance/Elevation Only)

 

 

I can't speak for everyone but I hate meditation. I think the idea is cool (Give legacy players something because they have been playing for so long) but I really hate that everyone had to go insanity for the damage reduction. Maybe make the PVP meditation path different and just give us silly cosmetic things or funny spells that don't really do anything.

 

20 hours ago, Darklords said:
  • Open to suggestions here for what you would like to see as future content for All PvP servers in general.

 

 

I love the idea of weekend bonuses. Maybe have a weekend where your FS is increased from killing a player, or weaponskill is increased from fighting an enemy. Maybe make a weekend where lockpicking is easier or horses go faster or something.

 

The stuff I didn't comment on I just don't have enough experience to give a good opinion on. I think these ideas are great and I am super excited to see them and I am so happy that you guys have provided this roadmap. Thanks!

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56 minutes ago, Zao said:

 

Don't like this. I think it takes skill to move away from battle, start casting, coordinate with your guys to come close, and pay attention to if someone comes close. Then you have to press unequip and quickly shift click all your stuff and drag it back while keeping your position in mind. I think it added a cool little bit of micro skill that wurm lacks. I could be in the minority here though. if it goes through I see more people just wearing studded which would make more people use slashing weapon and kind of entrench that meta.

 

 

Doesn't this change help your first points of having to move away, reposition and cast, if you want to be naked and cast you better have good positioning. This change helps create new dynamics in pvp. 
A. priest who will choose to continue to have max penalty and be tanky and have crazy positional awareness to be able to get out of combat take off armor and cast a a spell, Risky af, but tanky when not casting spell.
B. priest who will continue to have max penalty and be tanky and not care about casting penalty and just cast with armor on.  
C. priest who will wear none penalty armor and cast when ever, less tanky but no need to risk being naked.
D. priest who will wear none penalty armor and cast when they cant reposition, or get naked when they have the ability to reposition and strip off armor.

E. priest who have bonus casting armor and being the least tanky but be able to cast max powers without having to take off armor. 

If anything this creates a lot more variety to how priest want to play. 

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Speak for yourself. Defiance may be dead for JK but BL and MR are still having fun and going full steam.

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1 hour ago, Zao said:

Speak for yourself. Defiance may be dead for JK but BL and MR are still having fun and going full steam.

For most of us, two months in with an average formup of about 8 for MR and probably not much better for JK at the moment isn't a very good sign that Defiance is in a good spot going forward, especially when the downward trend continues.
Just being real.

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make the halberds slash damage also do bonus damage to horses like the pierce does so we can all run around with glimmer halberds

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Thinking about it more, I agree with some other points here that I think these changes are really focusing on the population that exists on Defiance today. It's not focusing on the bigger issue, which is drawing new players and PvE players to come over to Defiance. I'm actually kind of against the depot idea now. I like HotA because the battlecamps spawn all over across the map. You can capture one solo or as a group. I feel like with the depot it's going to go to the side with the most numbers, and like other people have noted, that's where things snowball. They'll win it several times in a row, and that momentum is then hard to catch up with for other kingdoms.

 

I think the best question to ask is, "If you're on PvE, what can we do to have you come to PvP even if only temporarily?" The PvE community is largely about economy. There's no real reward to be had here, even if you make an amazing supreme huge axe, it's not going to be a quarter of the price that it would be on PvE because of the risk of losing it. I think we have to thing of creative solutions that provide incentives that can be profitable in ways for PvE players to try PvP. A small Increased skillgain and increased affinity gain help, but it's not that persuading. 

 

I don't know the right answer, but I think we could look into certain rewards from PvP or drop only on Defiance but can transfer over to PvE servers. 

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Posted (edited)

Still think all the neat cosmetic stuff that exists in the game should have a method of transferring over back to freedom; titles, weapon skins, shoulderplates and so forth.

IMO, Defiance should also be 'better' to skill on than freedom, which in of itself might hopefully provide allure.

That said, I think we should also look into removing complex mechanics that new players have to learn that are more of a byproduct of existing mechanics, rather than intended: I'm talking about paying for shakers to use in pvp, about utilizing boats to log out on and then gank someone when they're in range, about the armor swapping off to cast spells for .1 of a second, about all the strange things like that.

Also much wilder suggestion, but i'd love to see a sort of establish pvp event where kingdoms can only take a very limited amount of players into- i.e 5 players from each kingdom at tops, each tasked to do something within an area. (for example, a temporary server summoned up for a limited time at a specific place like a certain suggestion...)

Edited by RainRain

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@Darklordsone thing that would really make pvp better is to fix or improve desync or at least recode some things so people that lag dont get an unfair advantage, Certain people, always manage to hit horses when they are 5+ tiles away from me before I even get the combat window, its not my end, I have fiber internet. 

 

Pinging defiance.wurmonline.com [172.105.75.178] with 32 bytes of data:
Reply from 172.105.75.178: bytes=32 time=154ms TTL=52

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On the increased quality, adding it to any title linked to a skill used to improve it sounds like a good way not to interrupt people who want to use it to skill and not get stuff fast will be looking into that.

 

Recall corpse should have had double cool down for defiance but it was not working correctly, considering upping it to 30 minutes though.

 

Will be looking to adjust the rewards from hunting/depo to have chances to be things other than sleep bonus though sleep bonus will be more common. More details on that soon.

 

2 hours ago, Threap said:

@Darklordsone thing that would really make pvp better is to fix or improve desync or at least recode some things so people that lag dont get an unfair advantage, Certain people, always manage to hit horses when they are 5+ tiles away from me before I even get the combat window, its not my end, I have fiber internet. 

 

Pinging defiance.wurmonline.com [172.105.75.178] with 32 bytes of data:
Reply from 172.105.75.178: bytes=32 time=154ms TTL=52

This is a rough one, currently the server is just sending direct locations for creatures to the client and not offsets like in the past anymore. I'll have a look but I am not sure there is much we can do in the short term to help this.

 

16 hours ago, Postes said:

Thinking about it more, I agree with some other points here that I think these changes are really focusing on the population that exists on Defiance today. It's not focusing on the bigger issue, which is drawing new players and PvE players to come over to Defiance. I'm actually kind of against the depot idea now. I like HotA because the battlecamps spawn all over across the map. You can capture one solo or as a group. I feel like with the depot it's going to go to the side with the most numbers, and like other people have noted, that's where things snowball. They'll win it several times in a row, and that momentum is then hard to catch up with for other kingdoms.

 

I think the best question to ask is, "If you're on PvE, what can we do to have you come to PvP even if only temporarily?" The PvE community is largely about economy. There's no real reward to be had here, even if you make an amazing supreme huge axe, it's not going to be a quarter of the price that it would be on PvE because of the risk of losing it. I think we have to thing of creative solutions that provide incentives that can be profitable in ways for PvE players to try PvP. A small Increased skillgain and increased affinity gain help, but it's not that persuading. 

 

I don't know the right answer, but I think we could look into certain rewards from PvP or drop only on Defiance but can transfer over to PvE servers. 

That's a fair point, will have to think about things we might be able to do shorter term to help this. If people would like to throw some more suggestions here that would be helpful to.

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3 hours ago, Darklords said:

That's a fair point, will have to think about things we might be able to do shorter term to help this. If people would like to throw some more suggestions here that would be helpful to.

 

First and foremost, as I and many others have already suggested - Increased skillgain on Defiance. This increase need to be high enough to persuade people to forgo their 25% increased skillgain from PoK, weekly Rites, and profitable PvE market. The percentage increase could scale with meditation level (not path).

 

Secondly - Exclusive skins that can only be acquired on the PvP server. These could be gained through Valrei missions, HoTA rewards, or maybe as rewards for having high battle rank. These skins could be transferable to the Freedom servers to allow people to show off their pvp-gotten-gains. Whether these skins are tradable or account bound is up for discussion, I'm not sure what the best route would be. 

Edited by BrokenSanity
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On the pvp side of priest balance I think lib is fairly strong right now it has multiple good single target damage spells a couple buffs and multiple pillar spells that are good scorn and pain rain mostly. And rebirth. Vyn could maybe use something to make it a little better in pvp but it's such a useful enchant priest its probably fine how it is. Mag is good for pvp just from it's base priest abilities. Though fire pillar seems really weak right now. And fo which I've been playing as is really good the only negative to fo Is unlike every other priest there's no spammy hurting status low damage spell.( Though while it makes sense because fo is healer.) It puts you at a disadvantage initially in priest vs priest small fights where the other priest can put your horse hurting when your out of range to touch there's increasing the gap)

 

Other than priests I agree titles for the imp bonus makes more sense so you can choose to use the bonus to not effect skilling.

 

I like the idea of increased affinity gains on defiance. It's a server specific skill gain bonus and they get moved around by pvp. Getting a good affinity is better than the majority of pvp loot. Even maybe something like a rare chance on mob death of giving an affinity or an affinity for a skill you got ticks in the last 15s for. Idk affinities seem like a good way to go but sleep bonus is always a good incentive and giving it from doing stuff out and about is a really good idea. Makes up for the ability to sell stuff on harmony for it nonstop.

 

And for the chest sleep bonus thing. They are pretty random when you run into them. It seems like it would be better for them to give sleep powder instead of bonus directly because unlike say a depot or something, you mostly run into chests not looking for a chest. So you can't really control if you already have sleep bonus or not when you find it. Might just be a wording thing and that's how it was intended to be done anyway. I'm rambling pretty hard cuz drunk so sorry for anyone who reads this lol

 

 

Also does anyone have a change of pants?

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to attract more pve players to pve maybe add journal missions in like bash an enemy guard tower, kill an enemy player, kill a king, or other things that can only be done on defiance. this would give everyone an incentive to try pvp at least 1 time and maybe they will like it 

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There were pvp and mission based goals on the old personal goal list that were asked to be removed because you cant force people to pvp or lock them out of completing it. It doesnt work.

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On 10/9/2020 at 12:14 AM, Groot said:

For most of us, two months in with an average formup of about 8 for MR and probably not much better for JK at the moment isn't a very good sign that Defiance is in a good spot going forward, especially when the downward trend continues.
Just being real.

 

Oh yeah, totally. It's a horrible sign. BL is going to completely run the server. If they want to they could go and raid any deed they want. It kind of feels like they are a cat playing with their prey atm. I'm just saying that we can still have fun. Just can't expect to match them in numbers. Got to treat it sort of like the american revolution, nobody can go toe to toe with them so we have to alter how we do things.

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1 hour ago, SmeJack said:

There were pvp and mission based goals on the old personal goal list that were asked to be removed because you cant force people to pvp or lock them out of completing it. It doesnt work.



what about just an extra pvp-centric journal? unrelated to the craft/priest ones

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YES. PVP JOURNAL PLS. 

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It might also be a good idea to make the not very good or now less useful kingdom titles have a better effect

 

The economic one does less now that traders have been changed. Not sure what it could do though.

 

Court smith is basically useless if the person has high skills and now that alot of bulk items are just 100% chance could be changed to to be like the addy creation bonus or imp speed.

 

Jester and mistress I mean could get something but can also stay meme.

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On 10/10/2020 at 2:32 PM, Zao said:

YES. PVP JOURNAL PLS. 

this is a cool idea

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Will there be a further updates/points of discussion in this thread before the big patch on the 23rd?

 

Has the issue/solution quoted below (regarding incentive to grind on Defiance) been considered any more? 

 

On 10/10/2020 at 9:58 AM, BrokenSanity said:

First and foremost, as I and many others have already suggested - Increased skillgain on Defiance. This increase need to be high enough to persuade people to forgo their 25% increased skillgain from PoK, weekly Rites, and profitable PvE market. The percentage increase could scale with meditation level (not path).

 

Edited by BrokenSanity

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Will any of this be in by the 23rd is the real question 

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imo the entire priest restriction system needs a rework, at least on the pvp server. i agree that there should be a downside to priesting up, but losing the ability to craft is the wrong way to go about it. this restriction takes like half the content away from players that priest up. it also puts more stress on players that dont priest up because after a loss they end up having to do all of the crafting. 

I think priests should be able to craft and the nerfs or restrictions should be pvp related. this would make it so 90% of the players dont rely on 10% of the players for gear.

 

Some penalties or restrictions that i think could work are:

-20% damage resistance nerf

-limit priests to leather or cloth armour

-limiting priests to using one handed weapons only.

-small cr nerf

 

I think changes like these would make the pvp server way more healthy and keep player retention higher. im pretty sure the majority of the people who have quit so far are crafters who get burnt out regearing people each fight.

it would also make being a non-priest pvp viable by being more tanky. 

 

Short version: pretty please switch the priest crafting restrictions with pvp restrictions/nerfs. priests can cross to harmony from defiance and craft there anyways so the only thing the current restriction does is burn out non-priests

 

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1 minute ago, JamesSnow said:

imo the entire priest restriction system needs a rework, at least on the pvp server. i agree that there should be a downside to priesting up, but losing the ability to craft is the wrong way to go about it. this restriction takes like half the content away from players that priest up. it also puts more stress on players that dont priest up because after a loss they end up having to do all of the crafting. 

I think priests should be able to craft and the nerfs or restrictions should be pvp related. this would make it so 90% of the players dont rely on 10% of the players for gear.

 

Some penalties or restrictions that i think could work are:

-20% damage resistance nerf

-limit priests to leather or cloth armour

-limiting priests to using one handed weapons only.

-small cr nerf

 

I think changes like these would make the pvp server way more healthy and keep player retention higher. im pretty sure the majority of the people who have quit so far are crafters who get burnt out regearing people each fight.

it would also make being a non-priest pvp viable by being more tanky. 

 

Short version: pretty please switch the priest crafting restrictions with pvp restrictions/nerfs. priests can cross to harmony from defiance and craft there anyways so the only thing the current restriction does is burn out non-priests

 

I don't think so. The only restriction I can think is like archery, you need to equip your statute to cast a spell. Also I believe either merg all the wl priest or rework bl to more evil gods. Its just not fair you get a Jack of all trades but wl needs all 3.

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Just make it so everyone can be a priest without restrictions instead and thus everyone can enjoy all features of the game.

Higher enjoyment = Higher player retention & activity

Edited by Zekezor
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4 minutes ago, Zekezor said:

Just make it so everyone can be a priest without restrictions instead and thus everyone can enjoy all features of the game.

Higher enjoyment = Higher player retention & activity

 

I think less restrictions would be better than more. This is supposed to be a sandbox after all. At the same time, I can't imagine the amount of spell spam if literally everyone was a priest.

 

I like the restrictions at the level they are now. I simply think certain spells need to be balanced.

 

The current meta of removing all armor 1s before a cast could be fixed by implementing a time for equipping armor or a cooldown for equip/unequip.

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