Darklords

PvP Changes Feedback

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Posted (edited)
28 minutes ago, Moonpoppy said:

Building in the idea that gods could be open to all kingdoms... what are people’s thoughts on a potentially bold move, but removing kingdoms altogether. Moving towards a alliance/village setup? 
 

That's a neat idea, but it goes too much against the lore/setting if you ask me.

In the end the differences between WL & BL keeps things much fresher.

It helps making people think that they are part of their group and have it call their roots.

I'm aware that it makes things harder to balance, but it's also far more fun this way.

 

To give an example of a game where they followed your path: Look at Planetside 2.

Originally that game had very diverse factions. With the release of the second game that got reduced, but still had differences.

As the years progressed one update after another slowly pushed the factions in similarity.

Now factions have many similar functions and weapons and things are a lot more stale. Not to mention: Faction loyality is barely a thing anymore.

I'd hate to see Wurm go down the same path. Keep it unique, keep it fresh.

 

Edit:

Quote

If people will using SB from pvp on pve, when SB is linked why not make the "joining" one way? Like you can only use pve SB on pvp but not pvp SB on pve.

Great idea. That will promote play on the pvp servers. People can still fetch their rites from pve, but spend it on the pvp server instead. Good thinking.

Edited by GroeneAppel
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Posted (edited)

So far i think the changes sound good.

 

I dont like the idea of a hard cap on the LoF, rahter change the resistance effekts to balance things out.

As a priest there is one skill that really annoys me: Praying.

 

Maybe you can look into it. In my optinion it is very counter intuitive, that the better your skill/altar/alignment is, the less skill you get.

So you make a nice Altar maybe even a Temple with high ql altars and in the end you get punished for it.

 

You need Skill 70 in praying for the journal quest, so you are forced to stay there for very long time to pray and get really little in return.

With the journel quests for crafters you can craft things which help you and your community to an extent, with channeling you have some spells which help the community. But praying is just painfull in my eyes with little to no reward.

 

Edit: In my experience it is even much harder to raise this skill than skills like weaponsmithing.

To gain even remotely efficently skill, you need to be outside of your gods domain, possibly a little bit drunk and pray to a tree, rock or sth like that and even with that you gain hardly any skill.

Edited by Kyria
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Change the hp healed/dmgd from aoe into fixed numbers that are altered by power.

Then do this:
 

An aoe spell deals a total ammount of dmg, we call it X.

Count the number of creatures in the area, Y.

If Y is less than # then change Y into #.

(# is just a variable to limit max dmg from aoe to individual creatures)

 

Dmg to each creature = X/Y.

 

Simple stuff.

 

 

Example1:

X = 100

Y = 20

# = 10

 

20 > 10. Thus Y remains the same.

 

100/20 = 5.

Each creature takes 5 dmg.

 

Example2:

X = 200

Y = 5

# = 20

 

Y < #. Thus Y becomes 20.

200/20 = 10.

Each creature takes 10 dmg.

 

 

For healing:

Take each creature in the spells area and add togheter togheter their lost hp.

Each creatures healing received is:

It's lost hp divided by the hitpoints lost from all creatures multiplied by the spells healing.

It heals the largest wound as much as it can and if it has any spare power it moves onto the next wound untill it runs out of healing or the target is fully healed.

 

Example:

 

2 wounded targets.

One has lost 60 hp and another has lost 40 hp.

The max healing is 50.

 

60+40 = 100 total hp lost.

first target receive 60/100*50 = 30hp.

second target receive 40/100*50 = 20hp.

 

So each target receives its share of healing based on the loss it has.

 

By doing this priests dont scale indefinetly when the group size increase and can thus be far easier to limit/balance in terms of aoe.

 

 

Ps. i wrote this on a phone during a lunch break. Might be shitty formating

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Overall I really like the changes proposed in here, although I do agree with most people that already replied that something more needs to be done to tackle skillgain inequalities between clusters.

 

Additionally, I recently realized (completely unrelated to some incident where enemy players suicided the moment they left local and then recalled their corpse) that the recall corpse ability still has only a 5 minute delay, whereas most fights last well over 5 minutes, and you can easily add another 10 minutes to that for locating corpses and looting them afterwards. This means that for most skirmishes, players are actually able to recall their corpse before the battle is over and the corpse has been looted.

 

In the past we've had a number of skirmishes with a surprisingly low turnout on enemy loot, and ended up attributing it to mag's passive res bonus, but in hindsight this is probably what happened. I would strongly recommend disabling the spell altogether or adding a nice 30+ minute delay to prevent it interfering with PvP business.

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5 hours ago, vinius said:

Just a wild suggestion, but now with hitching posts, could the PVP depots spawn with traited horses tied to the posts?

horses pop out within 30 minutes of breeding already (if you're lucky), and grow up to a rideable age in 24 hours or so

 

why not make this server Challenge v3 or whatever with what some people are proposing

after a month of Depots, theres going to be so much "gear" laying around, especially if you add horses, gems, arrows, weapons.. etc like people are now suggesting

 

snowballing, all over again

 

4 hours ago, BrQQQ said:

Depot rewards

  • Mobs having a small chance of giving SP is good I think. Hunting is something that needs to be rewarded more. 

yeah, grinding my body stats and weapon skills isnt rewarding enough, even though ive done it before on 3 different accounts, with multiple weapons, and had fun while doing it

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Posted (edited)
11 hours ago, Darklords said:

NFI PvP/PvE characters will share more things like titles/sleep bonus.(NFI Only)


Referring to the impossibility of using titles obtained from the journal on both servers pvp and pve, does this mean that you cannot use Benediction +5 power either? Is this will be shared as well? The problem here is not only it feels like 2 accounts, you actually can't complete it on both servers because it counts as completed on both after you complete it on one side, but you do not get passives bonuses and titles on other side and you can't get them after all because its already completed on other server.

 

Edited by Nelsy

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4 hours ago, Yuchdan said:

If people will using SB from pvp on pve, when SB is linked why not make the "joining" one way? Like you can only use pve SB on pvp but not pvp SB on pve.

+1 to this

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6 hours ago, Melros said:

Im....im a bl priest...

Most likely im WL priest as you BL xD

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the new hota thing sounds interesting, idk how well it will work without general locations being given. also something very important that i think this server needs is more incentive to not priest up. its basically a requirement to be a priest for pvp which hurts kingdoms when there are very few crafters. maybe add something like priests have -20% damage resistance. like when was the last time anyone saw a buff priest irl? Buff Muslim Guy | Know Your Meme

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Most of these changes move the game towards instant gratification and handing out too much free ######. I like the change to try and encourage raiding, but it doesn't go far enough; no one raids on Defiance.

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2 hours ago, Oreo said:

horses pop out within 30 minutes of breeding already (if you're lucky), and grow up to a rideable age in 24 hours or so

 

why not make this server Challenge v3 or whatever with what some people are proposing

after a month of Depots, theres going to be so much "gear" laying around, especially if you add horses, gems, arrows, weapons.. etc like people are now suggesting

 

snowballing, all over again

 

yeah, grinding my body stats and weapon skills isnt rewarding enough, even though ive done it before on 3 different accounts, with multiple weapons, and had fun while doing it

 

1 hour ago, Sipupp said:

Most of these changes move the game towards instant gratification and handing out too much free ######.

 

This mentality needs to change.

 

You need to think about this from the perspective of someone just discovering Wurm for the first time, because those are the sort of players that will be coming in through Steam. Unless you want this to decay into yet another server of veterans serenading eachother with tales of how they watched number go up five decades ago to the other 7 players online, these are the people you want to get hooked on the game.

 

Maybe back when Wurm first came out these were valid points, but the base game is 14 years old now and some of that age is starting to show. The game does have it's niche and that's why we're here, don't get me wrong, but when the bulk of your time is spent tabbing in every few minutes to queue actions while playing another game instead of actively doing anything there's a problem. There's more and more games these days that offer a similar experience to Wurm with less barrier to entry; if Wurm wants to demand such a large time investment then players need to feel like they're getting the most out of the limited time they have to play in a day. Sleep powder from hunting means player spend less time sitting on deed, both due to incentivizing hunting and speeding up the time they're actively grinding skills, not to mention more players roaming means more spontaneous pvp. More gear and faster improvements means less time is spent by the kingdom smiths imping, which means faster regearing and more frequent fights.

 

That being said, having a random amount of gear be destroyed or deteriorate when a player is killed would be good alongside these changes, to act as sort of an item sink and prevent items from staying in circulation indefinitely. So I do agree on the item snowballing/stockpiling.

 

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Posted (edited)

I like all the proposed changes so far, I didn't really read past the first page. But I would only like to see if be 50/50 roll between Sleep Powder/Bonus and Random Affinity. I say that because then it would make more sense for affinity exchanges on Defiance especially.

Edited by Carmichael
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NFI have sleep bonus from weekly rites, safe high value tools, Vyn bonus, PoK bonus, selling stuff for sleep powder, safe resource gathering. Why would anyone skill and live on Defiance? A few SP from depos or hunting isn't going to cut it.

 

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48 minutes ago, Omar said:

NFI have sleep bonus from weekly rites, safe high value tools, Vyn bonus, PoK bonus, selling stuff for sleep powder, safe resource gathering. Why would anyone skill and live on Defiance? A few SP from depos or hunting isn't going to cut it.

 

Agreed. As I said earlier in the thread; to even begin to compete with all that, a skill gain increase to Defiance should be considered.

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can we please adjust loot timer on gravestones down to 15-20 seconds? 1 minute is a ###### eternity when you are a small group doing things near enemy deeds

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Posted (edited)
7 minutes ago, platinumteef said:

can we please adjust loot timer on gravestones down to 15-20 seconds? 1 minute is a ###### eternity when you are a small group doing things near enemy deeds

I agree, one minute is a bit excessive, but we don't want it to be too fast either. Could just make it that when enemies aren't in local the timer is significantly faster and keep it at the current one (Or maybe shortened to 30-45 seconds?) when they are.

 

Semi-related, but gravestones should render from further away. Even at the highest settings, they seem to only pop up if you're within 5-6 tiles of them. I don't know if this is a level of detail oversight or not, but it makes both finding your own body and finding an enemy body even more aggravating than it needs to be. If this is by design, then gravestone loot timers should be decreased independently of the above change since obfuscating the location of bodies delays picking them up just as much as a timer does.

Edited by Sovos
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I like the 1 minute timer on gravestones. It gives enemies more time to react and promotes more PvP rather than just taking loot and running off. 

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1 hour ago, Omar said:

NFI have sleep bonus from weekly rites, safe high value tools, Vyn bonus, PoK bonus, selling stuff for sleep powder, safe resource gathering. Why would anyone skill and live on Defiance? A few SP from depos or hunting isn't going to cut it.

 

 

I think its worth mentioning that the only real incentive that pve has over pvp is vyn and rites right now, and safe woodcutting sure. No one is actually pok and wint be for MONTHS. Also, with how poopy meditation is with no hate bonus or sotg and what not pok is honestly viable on pvp. Really the only thing crippling right how is the separate sb and the vynora skill gain. That said, a flat skill gain buff on pvp would counteract greatly.

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tbh Recall Corpse shouldn't be a function at all in pvp and shouldn't be useable period if an enemy is within local of your corpse, not just have a longer timer. (of which it was apparently bugged and didn't have a longer timer currently, anyways)

Also, i would be OK with Path of Insanity's teleport being the only method of teleportation that works in enemy local; reason being that the path is otherwise awful for anyone, and the destination is random.

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Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, RainRain said:

tbh Recall Corpse shouldn't be a function at all in pvp and shouldn't be useable period if an enemy is within local of your corpse, not just have a longer timer. (of which it was apparently bugged and didn't have a longer timer currently, anyways)

Agreed. pvp deaths should block corpse summons.

 

edit: seems i quoted too much.

Edited by Zekezor
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Posted (edited)
16 minutes ago, RainRain said:

Also, i would be OK with Path of Insanity's teleport being the only method of teleportation that works in enemy local; reason being that the path is otherwise awful for anyone, and the destination is random.

That's way too good. Get out of a death once a day?

Edited by Joemog
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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, Joemog said:

That's way too good. Get out of a death once a day?

yeah, that's not good for the game

Edited by Groot

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yeah thats fair tbh; i was thinking of it as the sole benefit of going insanity at this point (given that the other benefits are essentially useless) and teleporting without your horse somewhere on the map at random felt like a neat tradeoff and decent place to put the only tp in the game

but i mean, i'd still like for all of meditation to just get reworked too but bigger things

as a side note: i also think shakers shouldn't be useable within local of an enemy; strongwall seems OK since it takes so long to cast and can be interrupted easily

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31 minutes ago, RainRain said:

i also think shakers shouldn't be useable within local of an enemy; strongwall seems OK since it takes so long to cast and can be interrupted easily

why?
that's their entire point. Do you know how often shakers are actually used? not a whole lot, why do they need to be basically removed?

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4 minutes ago, Groot said:

why?
that's their entire point. Do you know how often shakers are actually used? not a whole lot, why do they need to be basically removed?


i don't think they're super common, but i've seen them become used in offdeed mines for people to try and secure themselves and my impression is that it's pretty lame tbh; particularly the fact that it's an item you spend silver on in order to try and save yourself/trap enemies in pvp

it doesn't feel like something that should constantly be taken into consideration in pvp basically- they should just remain as one of those items that provide a spell for nonpriests who dont have access to 70 faith people, not a pvp tool

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