Darklords

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Just now, Zekezor said:

Considering Fo priests combat casting basicly only involves healing spells and also that Scorn is already seen as a superior spell than LoF by many (which not only has healing but also a dmg portion), whats the plan in terms of balance between priests usefullness?

Same goes for vyn in comparison to other priests, is there any plans to balance them to all be viable pvp priests?

I think this could be fleshed out more if they look into the BL/WL priest balance for the 3v1 god situation. Getting a combat focused and not combat focused god for BL would make this sort of thing easier to tackle, since right now Libila needs to be a jack of all trades to keep balance.

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1 minute ago, RainRain said:



I'd like to +1 this;

I think LoF and Scorn specifically need to not be able to affect the same player more than once in a certain period of time; I have zero issue with basically any other form of healing in the game- LT, cure spells, drain and so forth.

I am all for adding a hard cooldown between when aoe heal spells can heal a single player, what do people think about that?

 

5 minutes ago, Zekezor said:

Considering Fo priests combat casting basicly only involves healing spells and also that Scorn is already seen as a superior spell than LoF by many (which not only has healing but also a dmg portion), whats the plan in terms of balance between priests usefullness?

Same goes for vyn in comparison to other priests, is there any plans to balance them to all be viable pvp priests?

The majority of that is on my todo list soon, which is basically the "Looking into WL vs BL priest balance with BL only having 1 god vs 3 WL gods." part. Will entail taking a look at priest balance in general likely, yes ideally every priest would be pretty on par with each other in some way.

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5 minutes ago, Sovos said:

I think this could be fleshed out more if they look into the BL/WL priest balance for the 3v1 god situation. Getting a combat focused and not combat focused god for BL would make this sort of thing easier to tackle, since right now Libila needs to be a jack of all trades to keep balance.

But why should there be "non combat focused" priests? just add a spell or boost excisting ones. its not hard.

 

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15 minutes ago, Darklords said:

I am all for adding a hard cooldown between when aoe heal spells can heal a single player, what do people think about that?

Bad.

By that logic there should be hard cooldowns for single target spells, aoe dmg spells, etc aswell.

Resistances are more appropiate since they scale based on the quantity healed.

Otherwise you would have some poor fella with a 0.01 dmg aoe pillar wound being locked away from aoe healing.

 

Funnily enough the mag dmg bonus kinda slip past all forms of resistances tho since its a melee bonus... despite being very powerfull and not requiring any spell at all. They also get free res stones. Kinda like upgrading a standard acc without requiring any effort on the players part.

 

edit: as for resistances ya got 2 basic variables. Length and reduction. Play with those to achieve the desired effect rather than hard caps on receiving any benefit.

Edited by Zekezor

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I like the updates. 

 

Good HotA updates. I like the faster improvement on items. I agree with the spell updates, nerfing scorn, buffing tangleweave, and removing armor interrupts the casts. I think though you should look at the base damage of Fungus Trap, Fire Pillar, and Ice Pillar. All three seem to really do nothing substantial. It feels like they need to provide something more, and if not damage, slowing enemies, chance to stun, chance to inflict phantasms or something. 

 

"Your kingdom is alerted in event tabs when an enemy kingdom steps onto a battle camp your kingdom owns, it will not say what kingdom but will say which battle camp. This message cannot happen more than once every 30 minutes." - Be cool if this was for the Chief of Cabal kingdom title, the title that is alerted of when towers are being bashed. It would give a bit more use to that title and officers. 

 

I like the depot idea, but I think 10 sleep bonuses is a lot. 24-30 hours, if one kingdom is dominant and winning you're talking about pulling like 50+ sleep powders a week. That's a bit wild.

 

I think in general maybe the idea of rewards being so focused around sleeping powder is limiting. It would be cool to see some other rewards put in there - jackal skins, strange bones, high quality tools, gems, or arrows. I don't think it just has to be sleeping powder. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited by Postes
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Pillar spells would be cool if they damaged neutral monsters too.

 

If a hard cooldown on aoe heals isnt good, then redoing the math on how it foes healing would be my next best. The spell at 1 power is capable of healing 3 wounds for 30 damage, which is just nuts; And a 50 power cast isn’t any worse than that until around 60% resist. 

 

As people get stronger and DR increases, the hard limit of 3 wounds (+1 per target) will make it much weaker, but that won’t come for a while.

Edited by RainRain

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14 minutes ago, Postes said:

I like the updates. 

 

Good HotA updates. I like the faster improvement on items. I agree with the spell updates, nerfing scorn, buffing tangleweave, and removing armor interrupts the casts. I think though you should look at the base damage of Fungus Trap, Fire Pillar, and Ice Pillar. All three seem to really do nothing substantial. It feels like they need to provide something more, and if not damage, slowing enemies, chance to stun, chance to inflict phantasms or something. 

 

"Your kingdom is alerted in event tabs when an enemy kingdom steps onto a battle camp your kingdom owns, it will not say what kingdom but will say which battle camp. This message cannot happen more than once every 30 minutes." - Be cool if this was for the Chief of Cabal kingdom title, the title that is alerted of when towers are being bashed. It would give a bit more use to that title and officers. 

 

I like the depot idea, but I think 10 sleep bonuses is a lot. 24-30 hours, if one kingdom is dominant and winning you're talking about pulling like 50+ sleep powders a week. That's a bit wild.

 

I think in general maybe the idea of rewards being so focused around sleeping powder is limiting. It would be cool to see some other rewards put in there - jackal skins, strange bones, high quality tools, gems, or arrows. I don't think it just has to be sleeping powder.

Ya priest/spell balance for pvp is next up on the table, but we can take a look at buffing pillars a bit for now, though we would also likely reduce the max increased range from linking to not make getting off them a death sentence. I did like the idea for adding unique effects to them and that's on my list for a more full rework soon.

 

On the title, ya that sounds like a fair place to put the warnings in theory. My only concern there is it may only allow 1 group to defend it easily/force people to use an alt for the title so it can be seen at all hours. So I am a little hesitant to put it there for that reason what is other peoples feelings on this though?

 

Makes sense on both sleep bonus points, I will look into replacing some sleep powder from the depo with some other reward types. May also be worth having the creatures able to more rarely than sleep powder drop some items from that same rare loot table.

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I think it would be best suited for a kingdom office role, like Poste said.

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I think that while its fitting for the title, it’s healthier to just have it be public to everyone. I think the royal titles are due for some changes too, but thats way less important.

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I assume it would still alert the entire kingdom when a camp is captured. Having only one person be alerted of enemies gives it more value, but also enemies could then check offices, see if he or she is offline, and then go. I guess someone could set it up on alt 24/7 but no one really does that now for towers, though tower bashing isn't that popular. 

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  • Weapons/Armour/Toolbelts/Horse gear will increase in quality up to 75 much quicker when improving them to speed up people gearing groups for pvp after a loss.(Defiance Only)

Should just make this roll in with the Armour Smithing title mechanic, boost it, whatever it was that was done.  If not, it will screw with characteristic gains with crafting things.

 

Also, I think none of this is needed.  A mentality needs to be changed instead. 🥳

Edited by Oreo

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18 minutes ago, Oreo said:
  • Also, I think none of this is needed.  A mentality needs to be changed instead. 🥳

 

Mentality has needed to change for 10 years but alas here we are

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1 hour ago, Darklords said:

I am all for adding a hard cooldown between when aoe heal spells can heal a single player, what do people think about that?

 

The majority of that is on my todo list soon, which is basically the "Looking into WL vs BL priest balance with BL only having 1 god vs 3 WL gods." part. Will entail taking a look at priest balance in general likely, yes ideally every priest would be pretty on par with each other in some way.

 

I think it needs to be tuned so healing resistance actually matters, right now the cast time for Lof and Scorn is so long healing resistance is a non issue. I think decressing the cast time of Lof and scorn and then also increasing the Heal resistance amount so it actually matters, during moving fights which every fight is, the casts are just too long.

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4 minutes ago, Oreo said:
  • Weapons/Armour/Toolbelts/Horse gear will increase in quality up to 75 much quicker when improving them to speed up people gearing groups for pvp after a loss.(Defiance Only)

Should just make this roll in with the Armour Smithing title mechanic, boost it, whatever it was that was done.  If not, it will screw with characteristic gains with crafting things.

 

Also, I think none of this is needed.  A mentality needs to be changed instead. 🥳


If crafters spend less time on regears, they can spend more time skilling other skills that are arguably better for characteristics. Tying it to the skill title would be great, but if it takes more time to implement by the devs, I'd rather wait for that change and roll with this one.

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Im in favor is specifically nerfing scorn as it stands rather than both lof and scorn

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2 hours ago, Darklords said:

We are open to leaving sleep bonus separate I do understand the concerns about joining them and I will bring it up for discussion with the rest of the team.

 

And then people will continue to skill solely on PvE due to the ease of gaining sleep bonus from (weekly) Rites, purchased sleep bonus and the 25% increased skill gain from PoK.

 

These proposed changes look very positive, but the final nail in the coffin for PvP will always be the PoK level 11 ability. Reintroducing level 11 meditation to Defiance will not solve this issue as it is not a meta PvP path. People will always choose the PvP-meta path on Defiance, and again, use the PvE servers to grind.

 

The solution to this is really a general increase to the skillgain on Defiance, perhaps linked to meditation level (not path). Without it, why would people put in the effort to hunt/roam for sleep bonus on Defiance, when they could gain 5 hours a week from a simple prayer from Rites, gain skill 25% faster from PoK, and purchase even more sleep bonus from the things they make? 

 

I say keep the plan to merge sleep bonus, so everyone can take advantage of the insane rate of Rites PvE can put out, but also make it worth people's time to use the sleep bonus on Defiance. 

Edited by BrokenSanity
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Just a wild suggestion, but now with hitching posts, could the PVP depots spawn with traited horses tied to the posts?

 

I personally haven't done any archeology, but maybe instead of old deeds, would there be a way to track player deaths/gravestones, so that you could do archeology on old battle sites (or just spawn some  'old battleground's around the map), that have a chance at getting PVP items?

 

I think that as Posteh said, having not just sleep powder but other items as well that will incentivize a wider range of people to roam is probably the way to go.

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43 minutes ago, BrokenSanity said:

And then people will continue to skill solely on PvE due to the ease of gaining sleep bonus from (weekly) Rites

They have to nerf weakly Rites, but not increase skillgain on pvp. Good decisions looks for me, if you got one bonus Rite on any cluster/server you cant get it on others, you have to wait cooldown like month or so. So if we do like this there will be no point to go from pvp to pve just because there you can get Rites bonus on weekly basis.

And second thing may looks good, is give some compensation for people who not abused it. I know ppl who playing on PVE but not abuse it, know ppl who playing on PVP who not abuse it. So probably will be good point of view to count all Rites bonuses that player recieved per month, and put on him penalty for next Rites to compensate it in future, becasuse recieve more than one Rite bonus per month this is ubnormal.

Edited by Nelsy

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nerfing rites will just upset pve players and doesnt fix the problem that pve has vynora and pok.

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1 hour ago, BrokenSanity said:

The solution to this is really a general increase to the skillgain on Defiance, perhaps linked to meditation level (not path). Without it, why would people put in the effort to hunt/roam for sleep bonus on Defiance, when they could gain 5 hours a week from a simple prayer from Rites, gain skill 25% faster from PoK, and purchase even more sleep bonus from the things they make? 

 

POK dont have to be that strong agains other path's, this is unfair and too strong for grind basis game. Sounds fair enough to remove this funure from POK and give it to meditaion skill as passive bonus for all path's.  As some people mentioned right thing, that on PVE every one want learn POK while on PVP no one will learn it, this is not right at all for any kind of game and super unfair for grind game, and BrokenSanity's suggestion will fix it.

Edited by Nelsy

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1 hour ago, Melros said:

Im in favor is specifically nerfing scorn as it stands rather than both lof and scorn

We dont use Pain Rain that much anymore because you guys was feel unfair(not only because of it), now you feel unfair about Scorn, what next? I'm belive next will be Worm Brains, I'm pretty sure about that, you will cry too much. Why your FO's cant cast Light of FO same way? Dont you think the problem that you cast it only once per fight(in best your case) and some time you not cast it at all.

Scorn heal enemy horses, lets fix it, if we gonna focus on our Scorn spell more than on others.

Edited by Nelsy

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5 minutes ago, Nelsy said:

We dont use Pain Rain that much anymore because you guys was feel unfair(not only because of it), now you feel unfair about Scorn, what next? I'm belive next will be Worm Brains, I'm pretty sure about that, you will cry too much. Why your FO's cant cast Light of FO same way? Dont you think the problem that you cast it only once per fight(in best your case) and some time you not cast it at all.

Scorn heal enemy horses, lets fix it, if we gonna focus on our Scorn spell more than on others.

 

Im....im a bl priest... darklords already addressed the horse thing in this post... current tangleweave proposal does not effect an instance where scorn is cast except that it can now match scorn cd timers better. There are also simply more bl priests than fo priests ergo way way more scorns. Working on resistances may indeed do a great deal of help but will ultimately also nerf fo. I reckon the number of wounds scorn heals should be reduced. 

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A lot of the changes seem very interesting.

 

Here are my suggestions: 

 

Depot rewards

  • Consider that depots will usually go to the winning kingdom, so rewards might have to be scaled somehow. Do calculation on how many items get introduced to the game each week too
  • The sleep powder is way too much. I would reduce it down to 0 or 1.
  • Horse gear is good, but that's quite a lot. I would reduce it to 1 or 2 sets.
  • Add a variety of random 50-70ql combat items into it. For example: all weapon types, shields, bows, arrows, gems
  • Add a few high ql imping materials, like 80-95ql iron and logs

Scorn (and possibly LoF)

  • I'm not sure if the healing resistance does anything. That might need adjustment so you can't spam scorn like you can now.
  • As it is now, scorn is by far the most useful spell libila has in combat. It completely changes fights. An increase in difficulty or scale its effectiveness more to the cast power might be good

Roaming

  • Mobs having a small chance of giving SP is good I think. Hunting is something that needs to be rewarded more. 
  • I would suggest adding more rewards to make hunting more interesting, as hunting is a good way to make PvP. The rewards don't need to be super special or common. Little things like dropping some food, a few arrows etc could make it more interesting.
  • Kingdom influence should affect things related to roaming. For example: being in your own kingdom influence should reduce chances of getting SP, while enemy kingdom influence should increase it slightly. 
  • Samool's roadmap mentioned random encounters on PvE. This may also be interesting for PvP to some degree

I think in general rewards for everything should be toned down. The usefulness of a reward doesn't necessarily scale linearly with the likeliness a player will engage with that content. For example, plenty of players will go to a depot even if it gave 1 good glimmer lump. If it were 5 glimmer lumps, it doesn't mean we'll get 5x as many players there, so there's no real reason to introduce that much glimmer into the game.

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Building in the idea that gods could be open to all kingdoms... what are people’s thoughts on a potentially bold move, but removing kingdoms altogether. Moving towards a alliance/village setup? 
 

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On 10/8/2020 at 6:16 AM, Darklords said:

We are open to leaving sleep bonus separate I do understand the concerns about joining them and I will bring it up for discussion with the rest of the team.

If people will use SB from pvp on pve, when SB is linked why not make the "joining" one way? Like you can only use pve SB on pvp but not pvp SB on pve.

Edited by Yuchdan
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