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my man, we were not even 48hrs in from dropping the deed and you could have bashed in

read patch notes next time kid

Edited by Quicktor

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12 minutes ago, BrokenSanity said:

Is this what was imagined when raid windows were implemented @Darklords?

Cv0lHbN.png


For context - that's an impenetrable wardeed in the middle of Defiance with a couple of mine hops dotted around it. Pretty much a PvP blackhole. 

 

Hey, that deed isn't past 72 hours. Barely reached 48 hours of the initial raid window

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Just now, Muzukurin said:

imagine telling people to just bash in with a minehop on the same tile

well thats the downside of raiding the deed, we would do it on any deed just like you would too if it was reversed

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imagine complaining that a 50v20 didnt work out in your favor

 

on a sidenote, pick the right time to raid in

not our fault you dont know how a clock works

 

also

 

On 11/12/2020 at 10:17 AM, BrQQQ said:

The meta game of trying to sway devs to change the game every time you lose is a bit exhausting to deal with.

Edited by Quicktor
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2 hours ago, Muzukurin said:

imagine telling people to just bash in with a minehop on the same tile

you're joking right?
Yeah, they should just open for enemies allowing them to walk right in.
/s

Did you actually go to that deed with 40 people with this sort of gamesense?

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Well the probelm is they raise thsi deed over a old deed that was drained like 1h befor this. So basicly they have createt them self a safe zone befor they go in just so they can be save from loosing.

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3 hours ago, Radircs said:

Well the probelm is they raise thsi deed over a old deed that was drained like 1h befor this. So basicly they have createt them self a safe zone befor they go in just so they can be save from loosing.

 ?????

what old deed my man

 

i think you completely missed the point

its basically an open token

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5 hours ago, Radircs said:

Well the probelm is they raise thsi deed over a old deed that was drained like 1h befor this. So basicly they have createt them self a safe zone befor they go in just so they can be save from loosing.

Uh what? Are you really complaining we sat on deed while 48 people were trying to kill us? Hahaha

Edited by Atndy
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so like, i dont't actually think it was persay a 'bad play' from JK to go into the mine after the horde came (and i've got my own opinions on kingdoms teaming but thats irrelevant here), but i do want to say that wardeeds are cancerous

before i basically decided to quit i had already mentally made up my mind that i wasn't really going to bother with any pvp pings near wardeeds- those fights always basically depend on JK rushing far away enough from their minehops and between our two deeds (of which we had to place one defensively otherwise hunting there was too dangerous)

not only that but it's guesswork seeing who has more numbers; more often than not, what happens is what BL approaches JK's wardeed after spotting someone out with about 4-6 people; we check out numbers and send out a ping- we're not really counting people coming in, and most of you guys are in mines so we don't really know how many you have either- and eventually too many people from our side come in and we end up outnumbering you all about 33% in the end, again this is like... we're sitting outside of your deed, just off of your hops, in the place supposedly most of you have moved into already- not gathering numbers is just bad on our side, but the fight is also entirely determined by JK to start to begin with

nobody wants to fight on minehops, they're cancerous and lame, and that's the only thing these wardeeds ever do. you probably don't even realize how few minehops even exist in BL land, yet every single deed i've visited in JK utilizes them heavily. they're lame as hell and absolutely turn off any desire for me to pvp, and thats not even including the fact that most of these fights will mean us outnumbering you all

so then there's that problem; with the wardeeds so close together, that means almost any fight between JK/MR are going to become massive groups vs massive groups- there isn't really any room for us to roam jk without pulling Covert Ops sometimes to surprise people; there's no more roaming on the north coast to try and nab a kill really quickly and then running home, there's no more floating around pillow fort and nuln to see if people are hunting. all that's left is waiting for people to show their face near Village, watching them run back to deed, sitting around the deed for an hour until we now have too many people for JK to want to engage with, watching some newer people accidently overextend and get their horses killed and then walking back home

what's the fun in any of that lol

really wish defiance just had a big "no man's land" similar to the hota zones except not actually for hota, and just make it stupidly big so that deeding on the edge still doesn't mean you can show up a the enemy's doorstep

but i mean whatever lol, there's a million things that can be done to make this game better but none of them are going to happen because they don't actually hire devs fulltime for this game and they wonder why people quit every month when they only release number tweak patches every 3 weeks. pathetic that haven and hearth can release weekly and significant patches that deliver more than this game does in a season

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what do you expect us to do if BL not only outnumbers us but also has the optimal priest and feels the need to team up with MR

yeah i know that priest "discussion" is still going on, but anyone that has half a braincell can see why it is the best choice, anyway wrong thread...

 

if you are in JK and suddenly wake up to MR bashing 5 towers of yours, drain disbanding 2 deeds right next to a mountain pass that we use to get up into MR lands on the daily, realize they are about to deed the pass and secure it for their kingdom, then what would you do?

i'd react, and thats what we did

 

we bashed their newly built towers, put ours down again and secured the pass our own

given the fact that MR didnt want to fight an even fight right next to their deed and instead called BL in to almost outnumber us 3:1 tells me that we were right

 

we were reacting

sorry for that i guess...?

Edited by Quicktor
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keep in mind im not blaming either side im just saying this game sucks 😊

the game is constantly filled with obscure mechanics/strategies that promote extremely unfun gameplay patterns because of how poorly it's made.

minehops entirely rely on the fact that breaking combat = resetting combat swings which in turn means you can literally be invulnerable if you're not stupid, and as you can't see into a minedoor you can't pre-target someone whereas they CAN pre-target you

which you know, if something like that existed in basically any other game that took itself seriously it would've been patched and fixed ages ago, but in this game it's somehow stayed around long enough that the only thing we can assume is the devs like it and intend for it to be how pvp works in this game (as with very many other mechanics)

so i'm not mad at you, that'd be stupid- mechanics exist and have existed for ages and despite how cheesy they are it's dumb to be angry at someone for using them

instead, i choose to be pissed at the devs for allowing that mechanism to stay around for so long and not being able to work on a proper alternative that makes combat actually more fun, and only being able to make patchwork changes (that still require weeks to implement despite being a small change ?) to a heavily broken and abused system

but actually, im not that mad at the devs in specific, i'm mad at whoever's above them for not even giving them the opportunity to be able to work on this game with a living and proper wage and instead relying on volunteer work and poorly paid part-time work. the fact that our entire moderation team minus GM's are volunteers is probably the greatest example of why this game will continue to fail- and i'm not saying they're bad, i'm just saying this game leeches off the community to be able to sustain itself.

Edited by RainRain

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33 minutes ago, Quicktor said:

what do you expect us to do if BL not only outnumbers us

Not only that but lets remember they teamed up with MR to fight us. 

 

I guess outnumbering us is not enough.

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I think it's funny how much people are complaining over us using a safe space. The whole reason that deed was placed there was to prevent MR (which in reality, they still wouldn't be able to do with Gaul'Kor being put down prior to all of that just east of USNP) from taking our mountain that they've been draining. We knew from the get-go that they were intending to do that. So we countered and bashed. Both MR and BL were simply out done through our tunnel systems when they all came. We knew we'd lose some people so we had to cut our losses and get out ASAP so we wouldn't wipe. In the end it was like 46+ MR/BL vs only like 17-19 JK. We were also at LEAST 3-4 locals away from our "impenetrable war deed." Not a single attempt from what I've seen was even made to wall off our mine/mine in. Let alone an attempt to even push to get our 1x1 walled off token broken into. War deeds always have been a part of the game. They're a part of the whole concept of land control, hence the /kingdoms. That's why there are raid windows, that's why there is only 5 consistent drains to remove deeds, and none of which was used by any kingdom on this server other than maybe MR atm when they did it to Victus Cong which we didn't have access to to even defend (literally unopposed). Raiding isn't supposed to be easy, it never is or should be.

 

Also, Village is not a war deed. It is our Capitol, majority of our kingdom lives there. We moved there because we wanted to build a more defendable deed than Nuln, and it was a great location for Defending and the overall PvP aspect.

 

If ANYTHING should be changed about it just simply remove raid windows. Or make it so you can use off deed mine doors without enemies being able to get in without bashing, but make it bash twice as fast as you can now. So you have some sort of safe space when you raid... it would make raiding actually fun/promote more PvP. I remember way before epic it was actually a thing with off deed mine doors, and you'd get good and fun PvP on a daily basis. There weren't any Zergs either. I would also recommend delaying death tabs to at least 10-15 minutes. So back dooring isn't a thing as much. Because people getting outnumbered is what is really killing the game if anything. Because what sense would it make if you want me to fight 3 people by myself? I would have absolutely no chance of even getting a hit off before I'd be dead most likely because of gank bonus. I would sit there fighting 3 on a mine door with some chance of actually giving a fight back or potentially getting even 1 kill from a mine door. You've got to look it all of this from all sides and angles before you say it's killing PvP. 

 

But everyone will sit there and complain, but BL also has a War deed named City. Was placed to prevent us from placing a tower down on our Capitol deed. But you don't see us complaining about it. We sucked it up and got some content out of it.

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This is a feedback and discussion thread for gameplay changes.

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6 hours ago, RainRain said:

keep in mind im not blaming either side im just saying this game sucks 😊

the game is constantly filled with obscure mechanics/strategies that promote extremely unfun gameplay patterns because of how poorly it's made.

minehops entirely rely on the fact that breaking combat = resetting combat swings which in turn means you can literally be invulnerable if you're not stupid, and as you can't see into a minedoor you can't pre-target someone whereas they CAN pre-target you

which you know, if something like that existed in basically any other game that took itself seriously it would've been patched and fixed ages ago, but in this game it's somehow stayed around long enough that the only thing we can assume is the devs like it and intend for it to be how pvp works in this game (as with very many other mechanics)

so i'm not mad at you, that'd be stupid- mechanics exist and have existed for ages and despite how cheesy they are it's dumb to be angry at someone for using them

instead, i choose to be pissed at the devs for allowing that mechanism to stay around for so long and not being able to work on a proper alternative that makes combat actually more fun, and only being able to make patchwork changes (that still require weeks to implement despite being a small change ?) to a heavily broken and abused system

but actually, im not that mad at the devs in specific, i'm mad at whoever's above them for not even giving them the opportunity to be able to work on this game with a living and proper wage and instead relying on volunteer work and poorly paid part-time work. the fact that our entire moderation team minus GM's are volunteers is probably the greatest example of why this game will continue to fail- and i'm not saying they're bad, i'm just saying this game leeches off the community to be able to sustain itself.

I feel like you are suggesting no minehops. Aka no safe spots. So why don't we just get rid of deeds all together? No more deeded land. 

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1 hour ago, Atndy said:

I feel like you are suggesting no minehops. Aka no safe spots. So why don't we just get rid of deeds all together? No more deeded land. 


it's more like "i want no minehops, but we can't really do that because the rest of the game isn't conducive to good gameplay because minehops have become so integral to the game that changes have literally been made around them, despite them being absolutely shitty to play around"

or rather, "i want minehops to not be as busted"- some sort of change to the combat system to where leaving combat doesn't break your swing, or that entering/leaving caves doesn't actually break off combat until a long time after or enough distance between you and the hop is placed- meaning that hopping out and back in is bad and unsafe, but you can run into one and stay inside (without hopping out) in order to keep your desired safety

deeds in their current form are actually pretty bad for the game in several ways but there's zero way that's getting changed in a good manner any time soon- like i said, if the center of the map was primarily "no deeds" and only the outer ring was permitted to be deeded, or otherwise making deeds closer to the center of the map more dangerous/costly/etc (including incredibly increases deed costs for being near enemy deeds, not just 50 tile limits lol)

the combat ui itself is a joke, lack of information on who is targeting you, where they're aiming and being able to easily target people in return should have been part of the system to begin with, but instead we've had a literal text scroller system for a decade and minimal improvements have been made to it over the years. Why isn't there a visible tab of players targeting you in a similar vein to the aiming window? Why do i need to physically mouse over people to attack them when combat becomes so incredibly cluttered- add that dual-purpose window that shows you who's targeting you and who's within targeting range, and allow people to click their names to switch targets easily.

but suggesting stuff like this is a futile effort because as i mentioned, this game won't get any major patches that significantly alter the game any time soon (unless you count that depot one as a major patch lol) because of the reasons i labeled earlier

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7 hours ago, Carmichael said:

I think it's funny how much people are complaining over us using a safe space. The whole reason that deed was placed there was to prevent MR (which in reality, they still wouldn't be able to do with Gaul'Kor being put down prior to all of that just east of USNP) from taking our mountain that they've been draining. We knew from the get-go that they were intending to do that. So we countered and bashed. Both MR and BL were simply out done through our tunnel systems when they all came. We knew we'd lose some people so we had to cut our losses and get out ASAP so we wouldn't wipe. In the end it was like 46+ MR/BL vs only like 17-19 JK. We were also at LEAST 3-4 locals away from our "impenetrable war deed." Not a single attempt from what I've seen was even made to wall off our mine/mine in. Let alone an attempt to even push to get our 1x1 walled off token broken into. War deeds always have been a part of the game. They're a part of the whole concept of land control, hence the /kingdoms. That's why there are raid windows, that's why there is only 5 consistent drains to remove deeds, and none of which was used by any kingdom on this server other than maybe MR atm when they did it to Victus Cong which we didn't have access to to even defend (literally unopposed). Raiding isn't supposed to be easy, it never is or should be.

 

 

 

Not sure what you mean with "a safe space" it's several safe spaces. If you dont understand the difference between the "VK" deed and the "Aggresive Expansion" one beeing far more advantageous then your to ignorant for your own good.  If MR wanted to put down a deed on that location or a location nearby they would already of done it after they bashed the towers. But some people dont feel the need to have a deeded minehop or wait. "A safe place". And yes "A safe place" like that is actully killing PvP/Roaming. People dont wanna go in to JK anymore and i understand them it's a struggle. 3 deeds smacked in a small cluster+several guard towers. Like you could see this morning/evening

 

And yes "Village" is the Capitol of JK but the purpose of that location was to push BL back with "a safe place" beacuse we couldn't keep up with BL in open fights.

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14 hours ago, RainRain said:


not only that but it's guesswork seeing who has more numbers;
 

 

The way it should be. What do you want surety of numbers before you fight? 


The rest of your points it's; you want pvp to go the the way you want, to suit your play style.  Adapt. Or make it happen, the situation on the map is not set in stone. 

 

 

 

Edited by Omar

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2 hours ago, Omar said:



The rest of your points it's; you want pvp to go the the way you want, to suit your play style.  Adapt. Or make it happen, the situation on the map is not set in stone. 

 

 

 

 

So I guess then people complaining about zergs, death tabs, gravestones, drain health, and Libila just want to change the game to suit their play style. They need to adapt. Agreed, Omar!

 

 

Edited by Postes
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On 11/19/2020 at 4:54 AM, Omar said:

 

The way it should be. What do you want surety of numbers before you fight? 


The rest of your points it's; you want pvp to go the the way you want, to suit your play style.  Adapt. Or make it happen, the situation on the map is not set in stone. 

 

 

 


i don't even have a 'way' i want to pvp, i ###### run in with the intent to die because dying is more fun than dealing with minehops constantly, i literally 1v1 mag priests as a shitty skill non-priests and use ###### meme weapons what are you getting at here

my point is the strategies being used in the game right now (zerging, wardeeding and fortunately MR is free of most blame) suck ###### to play around and need changes made around them

zerging: the biggest weakness for having a large group is coordination and travelling; make pendulums worse overall (large cooldown), make horses slower so that you can't traverse across the map in 5 minutes, increase local vision range or make an item that can sense numbers to prevent baits, add a death tab delay to prevent backdooring. hell you can even do something like having enemy presence buff scale up faster if you have more enemies than allies around you.


wardeeds: lol good luck fixing this one just fix minehops for now- make it so entering a cave doesn't break combat (even if it has a door) so that the minehop has to be deep enough for you to disengage through distance, and make it so 'hopping' isn't safe. allow people to see targets within reach so you can pre-target people through minedoors, but don't allow combat to engage unless they exit the minedoor. eliminate the 'hop' from minehops while keeping the safety of having tunnels and mines in places. also apply all of this to gates.

 

and that's just popular strategies. knarrs need to be fixed so they can be viable for pvp, boat logging needs to be removed, logging off if you've been in combat with an enemy kingdom needs to be upped to an hour, sickles need to be nerfed, shields need to be nerfed (buffing 2h damage is not the way to go, and currently there's like zero reason to use a 2h), spears need to be nerfed or give halberds and staves the anti-mount passive, aoe spells need to damage neutral creatures, bl needs 2 gods, game needs real devs, etc etc etc.


as for the surety of numbers:

i was actually thinking of it from the other perspective. you guys scream we zerg a lot, the thing that's constantly on my mind is "do we have too many for jk and will they cry" when i go into a fight now

Edited by Bakhita
Removed trolling comment about reading level.

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Just curious if there's a timeline of when the next round of update discussions will be, or if we should continue to use this thread as a launching point to propose new ideas and questions? 

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