Darklords

PvP Changes Feedback

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As discussed in the last feedback thread here are the proposed changes for Defiance/PvP in general. These are subject to changes from feedback so please let us know what you think. If we missed anything major please also feel free to let us know. The proposed PvP Changes are planned for the next major update this month.

 

Proposed PvP Changes

  • Weapons/Armour/Toolbelts/Horse gear will increase in quality up to 75 much quicker when improving them to speed up people gearing groups for pvp after a loss.(Defiance Only)
  • Roaming Depo(Defiance Only)
    • Same spawn rules as battle camps.
    • Will announce when it spawns on twitter/event tab.
    • Will first spawn with no indication of where it is, after 5 hours of not being claimed it will give off the effect from the old depo to better help locate it.
    • You claim the loot with a 5 minute action on the depo, after which the depo will vanish until it respawns again.
    • Spawns 24-30 hours after the last one vanishes.
    • Claim Reward
      • 3 lumps of adamantine or glimmersteel(picked randomly)
      • 10 sleep powders
      • 5 75QL horse sets(Shoes/Saddles)
        • Chances these sets will come with varying degrees of WOA precast on them.
    • The intent of this is to get people out and looking for the depo every day or so, hopefully 10 sleep powder and some good possibly enchanted horse gear is enough to get people going out for it.
  • Upgraded Chest Loot(Elevation/Defiance)
    • The first person to open a rare chest spawn after it spawns will receive between 1-3 hours of sleep bonus depending on the loot roll of the chest.
    • This is intended to give out more sleep bonus for things done while out roaming.
  • Hota Changes(Elevation/Defiance/Chaos)
    • 6 battle camps spawn at the same time all over the map with no location information anymore.
    • First to 4 captures wins.
    • First to capture a camp after spawning receives a few pieces of moon metal. Captures after will not give any more.
    • Happens 40 hours after the last event finished.
    • Your kingdom is alerted in event tabs when an enemy kingdom steps onto a battle camp your kingdom owns, it will not say what kingdom but will say which battle camp. This message cannot happen more than once every 30 minutes.
    • Building inside battle camps when you have it claimed still provide all the protections from before.
    • Pendulums will still help find them but will have the range at which they do adjusted to make them much harder to find.
    • These changes will revert hota back to more of an event than something running continuously. Moon metal is still awarded to people who did not win just by trying, and they should not be nearly as easy to find and be dominated by a single group.
  • Increased raid windows for lager deeds over 50x50 tiles total in size to 8 hours to give more time to raid larger deeds.
    • Safe zones/deeds smaller than 50x50 stay unchanged.
    • The exact values of this are up for debate so please let us know what you think.
  • Scorn no longer heals non tamed creatures.(All Servers)
  • Shield bash will have a separate easier roll to just cancel actions that may be interrupted along with the roll to stun.(All Servers)
    • Will allow all players a much better chance to kick a spell being cast right next to them without making stuns to common.
  • Equipping or unequipping a piece of armor will cancel any spells/archery actions currently being cast.(All Servers).
    • Hopefully this should address the concerns about players swapping armor on and off while casting/shooting to get around the penalties.
  • Tangle weave cooldown reduced to 60 seconds/ favor cost reduced back to 15.(All Servers)
    • The nerfs to tangle weave where too heavy handed I admit, we are stepping them back much closer to the original values.
  • Random teleport will always take you onto land.(All Servers)
  • Increased healing resistance a bit more.(All PvP Servers)
    • This is subject to more testing, exact values will be updated when finalized.
  • Aggressive creatures(excluding zombies/domestic creatures) you kill will have a chance to place a sleep powder inside the final hitting players inventory. (Defiance Only)
    • The chance for this will be dependent on the CR of the creature and will be an uncommon drop.
    • This will not happen inside the safe zones or on settlements.
    • This is intended to give out more sleep bonus for things done while out roaming.
  • NFI PvP/PvE characters will share more things like titles/sleep bonus.(NFI Only)
    • Looking for feedback on what all people would like merged between the 2 NFI accounts.
    • The goal is to make them feel more like 1 accounts with different inventories than 2 accounts with the same skills only.

 

Future Plans

  • More pvp related points of interest in the world along with the exploration update planned.
  • Reworking spell damage/resistances to find a better middle ground between them being useful vs them being spammed especially for pillar spells.
  • Looking into WL vs BL priest balance with BL only having 1 god vs 3 WL gods.
  • Revised version of player champions on much shorter timescales/less harsh penalties for reverting/different bonuses than just DR.
    • Generally they will be much less powerful than current champions but will still be useful to have with little to no penalty for becoming one, and short several week max duration for them.
  • New methods of removing kings from office/deciding new kings for base kingdoms.
  • Removing meditation level limits from defiance/elevation with balance consideration for the more overpowered one that it was intended to remove.(Defiance/Elevation Only)
  • Open to suggestions here for what you would like to see as future content for All PvP servers in general.
  • Mine doors locking off deed somehow.
    • Pending some deep thinking and testing as this one will be hard to get right and could actually turn into a negative if people find new metas around it.

 

 As always please keep the kingdom vs kingdom stuff out of this thread.

 

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21 minutes ago, Darklords said:

Hota Changes(Elevation/Defiance)

not on chaos? :(

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4 minutes ago, Oblivionnreaver said:

not on chaos? :(

Yes chaos to sorry left it off the list, updated ty.

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Posted (edited)

I think affinities should be rewarded more than sleep powder, as they will further tie characters to staying on PvP, instead of grinding on PvE.
With sleep bonus rewards and a merged sleep bonus pool, it will still always be more efficient to grind on PvE, to sell your stuff for more SB.
With an increased chance at affinities, either through actions, or through rewards tied specifically to the server, you'll see less people flip flopping I believe.

 

Sleep bonus is nice, especially since playing on Defiance generally inhibits your ability to get it as easily as PvE players - but I can come over and try to farm my daily SB to continue my freedom grind, as opposed to having many more affinities on PvP, that are also easier to get on PvP + (they go around during pvp), and by using these affinities while grinding I also have a much better chance than on PvE to gain one.

My proposal to that would be: globally double the chance of gaining affinities, and double it again for Defiance specifically.
It's way too hard to gain affinities, and most people get 90 in a skill before getting a random affinity in it I'm about 99% sure.

Edit: also, increased QL gain should be limited to non seryll, glimmer, addy items

Edited by Groot
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Posted (edited)

Have any of the devs checked on if scorn is bugged and if scorn is able to heal a wound completely it does and bypasses the healing resist. I think someone brought it up being bugged can't confirm I dont have a lib priest.

Edited by FireHeart

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, Darklords said:

 

 

Future Plans

  •  
  • Reworking spell damage/resistances to find a better middle ground between them being useful vs them being spammed especially for pillar spells.
  •  

 

Make pillars strong again, longer cd more favor cost, so that you have to place them and time them correctly to be useful

Edited by FireHeart

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1 hour ago, Darklords said:

 

 

 

  • Looking into WL vs BL priest balance with BL only having 1 god vs 3 WL gods.
  •  

 

 

 

Just allow all kingdoms to pick 1 of the 4 priest simple, Hots is where people go if they wanna be able to kill everyone, doesn't have to be purely for lib. Fixes the issue of bl only having 1 priest and also fixes the issue of Wl saying Lib priest are to strong, 
Would just have to fix how alignment worked on pvp 

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Honestly, all of what's proposed right now looks really good. I'll give feedback on future plans when more information is available and the meta stabilizes from the incoming changes.

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Posted (edited)
  • Your kingdom is alerted in event tabs when an enemy kingdom steps onto a battle camp, it will not say what kingdom but will say which battle camp. This message cannot happen more than once every 30 minutes.
  • Building inside battle camps when you have it claimed still provide all the protections from before.

 

Camp your Kingdom owns or any camp?

What building protections?

F### champs, leave them out imo. And F#*% meditation skilling even more FFFFFFFFFFfffffffffffffffffffffffFFFFFFFFFFFFfFFffff REEEEEEEEEE It's a nice idea, a bonus for long term play and gives variation in character's abilities but I got better things to do with my life. It should be a free 5x skill tick every day you log in.

 

  • Shield bash will have a separate easier roll to just cancel actions that may be interrupted

I like this.

I like the changes but I think there should be more focus on advantages to living on the pvp servers not just pvp.
1. Players can grind with high ql rare enchanted tools and Vyn bonus and sell stuff on pve for SP, then barely live on pvp and I can't raid their tools :D
2. A player thinking about pvp may see pvp as to far in the future, so the Depo/Hota is not really an incentive to come over, a general skill gain bonus or affinities gain chance or something may be better.


 

Edited by Omar
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1 hour ago, Darklords said:

Aggressive non domestic/zombie creatures you kill will have a chance to place a sleep powder inside the final hitting players inventory. (Defiance Only)

txKG1Oj.png

 

In all seriousness these are great steps. I'd still be all for a flat bonus to skillgain across the board though.

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Posted (edited)

Great step in the right direction.

 

In talking to Sindusk in game, an initial thought (admittedly his) :

 

There needs to be something to address the skill gain every vyn follower gets on freedom. This is ultimately, along with the sleep bonus, why people skill on freedom. Im obviously lib on pvp because BL but I just skill on pve because i can be and am vyn on pve. 

 

I can just pop SP on defiance and pop to freedom to skill if y'all just merge the two SB pools

Edited by Melros
I type like an idiot always
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Posted (edited)

Forgot to mention minehops Also being reimplemented? @Darklords

 

Zombies giving sb????

 

No champs no meditations please.

Edited by AceRifle

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Posted (edited)

@DarklordsThe changes are good but with those changes you shouldn't merge the Sleep bonus pool, because the proposed way I can just roam on defiance get my sleep bonus use it and then cross to PvE. 

 

Zombies shouldnt give SP, that can be abused in so many ways. 

Edited by Egard
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1 hour ago, Darklords said:

Revised version of player champions on much shorter timescales/less harsh penalties for reverting/different bonuses than just DR.

  • Generally they will be much less powerful than current champions but will still be useful to have with little to no penalty for becoming one, and short several week max duration for them.

 

As long as there isnt a kingdom limit of 3 etc then some form of champ that everyone can be would be fine, else better off without them.

 

The only real change that I think is needed is a way for players to craft without any restrictions and also have pvp related spells.

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1 hour ago, Darklords said:

 

  • Aggressive non domestic/zombie creatures you kill will have a chance to place a sleep powder inside the final hitting

 

 

Clarify? Will zombies give powders? Would be super abusable by us BL

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Posted (edited)
1 minute ago, Melros said:

 

Clarify? Will zombies give powders? Would be super abusable by us BL

I think the wording means Aggressive non domestic and non zombie.

Edited by Threap

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11 minutes ago, Omar said:
  • Your kingdom is alerted in event tabs when an enemy kingdom steps onto a battle camp, it will not say what kingdom but will say which battle camp. This message cannot happen more than once every 30 minutes.
  • Building inside battle camps when you have it claimed still provide all the protections from before.

 

Camp your Kingdom owns or any camp?

What building protections?

F## champs, leave them out imo.

 

Only camps your kingdom own

 

Battle camps allow you to build fences/gates and lock them within a few tiles of the tower and they will not unlock for enemies in local like normal off deed gates.

 

The balance on any new implementation of champs will be extremely tame compared to past ones, with extremely short duration's so many people can get a chance.  Of course if people are still not fine with that we can always pass on the idea.

 

Just now, AceRifle said:

Forgot to mention minehops being Also being implemented? @Darklords

 

Zombies giving sb????

 

No champs no meditations please.

I had some worries about how that would turn out, I still want to do something to help make roaming a bit more fun but things like people just strong walling/using shakers and reinforcing it after just come to mind there is a lot of stuff that would need figured out before. I'll add it to the future considerations list as I did forget to add it there, just didn't feel like a rushed implementation was the right call.

 

Things born via breeding and zombies are exempt, any other aggressive creature is fine including uniques if you happen to get luck on the kill. I could have worded that better and will update it.

 

Meditation abilities over the current cap will be toned down if that ends up happening.

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it clearly means non domestic, non zombie for those that don't understand

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Just now, Groot said:

it clearly means non domestic, non zombie for those that don't understand

 

Im dumb. Plz Simplify

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Posted (edited)
1 minute ago, Groot said:

it clearly means non domestic, non zombie for those that don't understand

its wurm devs bud, you been around long enough. Never know what it can turn out to be.

Edited by Egard
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Posted (edited)

Overall:
Awesome changes! I'm very excited to see some of these come to fruition; i'll just post some quick notes and opinions and questions
 

Quote

Weapons/Armour/Toolbelts/Horse gear will increase in quality up to 75 much quicker when improving them to speed up people gearing groups for pvp after a loss.(Defiance Only)

Is this "Items will be succeed on imping more often" or "items will increase in quality by more each imp action" up to 75?
 

Quote

Roaming Depo(Defiance Only)

Please consider how to map out the area it spawns in, as the current camp spawning mechanism still means that spawns can end up basically within the local of a deed, or deep inside one enemy's territory. I'd strongly consider mapping out what seems to be the most neutral territory on the map like once a month or so (hell, even converse with players publically if need be) and choosing that area to be the "depo" area.
I'm mostly afraid that it will end up like camps do currently, and have a good chance to end up deed in territory.
 

Quote

Upgraded Chest Loot(Elevation/Defiance)
Aggressive non domestic/zombie creatures you kill will have a chance to place a sleep powder inside the final hitting players inventory. (Defiance Only)

Awesome! And adds a lot of roaming incentive; really good!
I'd suggest increasing the chance of this happening if you hunt in neutral or enemy territory, as well.
 

Quote

Hota Changes(Elevation/Defiance/Chaos)

Also neat! Also, fix the camp guards so they actually attack enemies coming to the camps; i don't really see their point otherwise.
 

Quote
  • Increased raid windows for lager deeds over 50x50 tiles total in size to 8 hours to give more time to raid larger deeds.

I don't have a big opinion. I'd wait on major changes to raids until a raid is actually attempted on the server.
 I'd also consider making the raid window scale off size- or proximity to the above forementioned depo zone.
 

Quote
  • (Scorn, spell, priest changes and armor)

Nice.
 

Quote

NFI PvP/PvE characters will share more things like titles/sleep bonus.(NFI Only)

Alright, so here's the actual problem now:
If you provide sources of sleep bonus and sleep powder on pvp, more people will move back to pve to craft items and grind, rather than produce for their pvp deed. Either maintain the division in sleep bonus, or make it some sort of special, non-sleep bonus related experience buff for a certain period of time. Basically, sleep bonus that isn't sleep bonus, and stacks with sleep bonus.
 

Quote

Looking into WL vs BL priest balance with BL only having 1 god vs 3 WL gods.

All i'm saying; lowkey a wurm lore nerd here. If you plan for a 2nd god BL god rather than a spell rebalance, you should consider it as being the Wurm.
did you know mag and libila are sisters, and libila died and was possessed by a demon because vynora and fo forced her to do things that ended up in her death by mistake; and that's what all of her hate and revenge text is about? Also that vynora is mag's lover? all i'm saying...
 

2 hours ago, Darklords said:

 

Future Plans

 

Most of these seem very promising; I can't wait to hear more. I'll post actual suggestions later.

Edited by RainRain
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4 minutes ago, RainRain said:

Overall:
Awesome changes! I'm very excited to see some of these come to fruition; i'll just post some quick notes and opinions and questions

 


Is this "Items will be succeed on imping more often" or "items will increase in quality by more each imp action" up to 75?

 


Please consider how to map out the area it spawns in, as the current camp spawning mechanism still means that spawns can end up basically within the local of a deed, or deep inside one enemy's territory. I'd strongly consider mapping out what seems to be the most neutral territory on the map like once a month or so (hell, even converse with players publically if need be) and choosing that area to be the "depo" area.

I'm mostly afraid that it will end up like camps do currently, and have a good chance to end up deed in territory.

 

Awesome! And adds a lot of roaming incentive; really good!
I'd suggest increasing the chance of this happening if you hunt in neutral or enemy territory, as well.
 

Also neat! Also, fix the camp guards so they actually attack enemies coming to the camps; i don't really see their point otherwise.
 

I don't have a big opinion. I'd wait on major changes to raids until a raid is actually attempted on the server.
 I'd also consider making the raid window scale off size- or proximity to the above forementioned depo zone.

Nice.

Alright, so here's the actual problem now:
If you provide sources of sleep bonus and sleep powder on pvp, more people will move back to pve to craft items and grind, rather than produce for their pvp deed. Either maintain the division in sleep bonus, or make it some sort of special, non-sleep bonus related experience buff for a certain period of time. Basically, sleep bonus that isn't sleep bonus, and stacks with sleep bonus.

All i'm saying; lowkey a wurm lore nerd here. If you plan for a 2nd god BL god rather than a spell rebalance, you should consider it as being the Wurm.
did you know mag and libila are sisters, and libila died and was possessed by a demon because vynora and fo forced her to do things that ended up in her death by mistake; and that's what all of her hate and revenge text is about? Also that vynora is mag's lover? all i'm saying...
 

Most of these seem very promising; I can't wait to hear more. I'll post actual suggestions later.

On imping they will just increase in quality faster when your action does finish successfully, if this does not turn out to be enough we can look at increasing the chances of success as well.

 

We can tune the depo to check how far it is from a settlement and make the distance away from the pretty large ~200 tiles. May do the same for battle camps and increase the deed blocking range to help combat those issues for them as well

 

Hunting close to enemy towers giving better odds for it does sound interesting ill add it to my list for sure to look into.

 

The camp guards should have been fixed shortly after launch of it, I'll take a look and see why they stopped attacking again thanks for letting me know.

 

We are open to leaving sleep bonus separate I do understand the concerns about joining them and I will bring it up for discussion with the rest of the team.

 

 

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1 hour ago, Darklords said:

 

  • Increased healing resistance a bit more.(All PvP Servers)
    • This is subject to more testing, exact values will be updated when finalized.

 

Considering Fo priests combat casting basicly only involves healing spells and also that Scorn is already seen as a superior spell than LoF by many (which not only has healing but also a dmg portion), whats the plan in terms of balance between priests usefullness?

Same goes for vyn in comparison to other priests, is there any plans to balance them to all be viable pvp priests?

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2 minutes ago, Zekezor said:

Considering Fo priests combat casting basicly only involves healing spells and also that Scorn is already seen as a superior spell than LoF by many (which not only has healing but also a dmg portion), whats the plan in terms of balance between priests usefullness?

Same goes for vyn in comparison to other priests, is there any plans to balance them to all be viable pvp priests?



I'd like to +1 this;

I think LoF and Scorn specifically need to not be able to affect the same player more than once in a certain period of time; I have zero issue with basically any other form of healing in the game- LT, cure spells, drain and so forth.

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