Posted September 29, 2020 (edited) 49 minutes ago, Primedivisor said: Actually this isn't fair. 11 hours is how long it takes (base case scenario) to deplete an 8 hour reserve. That doesn't address what I was saying. My claim was "If you do more than 8 hours of actions a day, then you will necessarily deplete your fatigue. " which is true. You can't get more than 8 hours of actions in your reserve in any 24 hour period. It's true that if you play 11 hours every day, that when you start the next day, you'll only have ~5 hours of fatigue recharged. So, from that perspective, it doesn't seem "fair." But when compared to the other 99% of the player base that isn't putting pretty much their entire waking life into the game, letting you do even more wouldn't seem fair to them. It's up to the Admins to decide who is better served here. Edited September 29, 2020 by Nekojin Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted September 29, 2020 53 minutes ago, Nekojin said: It's true that if you play 11 hours every day, that when you start the next day, you'll only have ~5 hours of fatigue recharged. So, from that perspective, it doesn't seem "fair." But when compared to the other 99% of the player base that isn't putting pretty much their entire waking life into the game, letting you do even more wouldn't seem fair to them. It's up to the Admins to decide who is better served here. You have a skewed sense of fairness. If I spend the time, I deserve the progress. What isn't fair is pushing towards an equality of outcome when different investments have been made. Arguing that its up to the admins has no bearing here. We aren't arguing what the rules are. This thread is about changing the rules. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted September 29, 2020 25 minutes ago, Primedivisor said: You have a skewed sense of fairness. If I spend the time, I deserve the progress. What isn't fair is pushing towards an equality of outcome when different investments have been made. Arguing that its up to the admins has no bearing here. We aren't arguing what the rules are. This thread is about changing the rules. Fine, if you want to go there: People who can spend unlimited* time in the game have a disproportionate impact on the in-game's economy over people who only spend a few hours a day. This has been evident to every major MMO development team since at least WoW's launch, when they introduced a Fatigue system in Beta, then changed it to Sleep Bonus when they got a predictable backlash. The only dev that I know of that seems to have missed the boat on this is Amazon's New World, who wanted to go in fresh without any preconceptions - so they're learning all over again what experienced MMO players have known for decades. First they had to learn (the hard way) that open-world PvP is a griefer's paradise, and makes things hard for new testers. After that, they're learning how automated crafting grinds can cause a hugely disproportional impact on the game's economy. Fatigue, as it stands, is the Wurm way of dealing with this. It seems to be effective - I can't find Wurm gold/silver on any RMT "gold-seller" sites, while WoW gold flows fast and free. If you want to get rid of Fatigue, just saying "get rid of it" is a non-starter. Come up with another way of dealing with the distorted impact of script-laden, unlimited play, and you might have some chance of getting something going. But just saying, "I'm inconvenienced, get rid of it," is a waste of bytes. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted September 29, 2020 3 minutes ago, Nekojin said: Fatigue, as it stands, is the Wurm way of dealing with this. It seems to be effective - I can't find Wurm gold/silver on any RMT "gold-seller" sites, while WoW gold flows fast and free. If you want to get rid of Fatigue, just saying "get rid of it" is a non-starter. Come up with another way of dealing with the distorted impact of script-laden, unlimited play, and you might have some chance of getting something going. The new servers had no fatigue until the latest patch, a good 2 months or so from launch until then, so if fatigue was preventing them then you would have seen them on those websites, no? The fact that someone macroing can just use more accounts to get around the limit kinda defeats that purpose if the devs disabling fatigue for months didn't already though WoW has no limit on game time and i'd wager quite a lot of that gold for sale is from hacked accounts so i fail to see the relevance. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted September 30, 2020 (edited) we played for 2 months without fatigue and it caused no discernable issues other than allowing wisdom of vynora, an already problematic spell, to be able to be abused i don't use alts, i play a lot each day- i don't really want to have to worry about running out of fatigue while grinding or as oblivion said, the myriad of ways that drain fatigue that probably shouldn't Quote Fatigue, as it stands, is the Wurm way of dealing with this. It seems to be effective - I can't find Wurm gold/silver on any RMT "gold-seller" sites, while WoW gold flows fast and free. If you want to get rid of Fatigue, just saying "get rid of it" is a non-starter. Come up with another way of dealing with the distorted impact of script-laden, unlimited play, and you might have some chance of getting something going. But just saying, "I'm inconvenienced, get rid of it," is a waste of bytes. 🤔 you aren't going to find any of those websites because wurm currency is almost entirely linked to irl currencies and the only way of generating it generates extremely little- and even if you DID generate it, it wouldn't drive much profit due to the extremely small playerbase of wurm i kept the op short and sweet because there's fairly little to say about it; it's an old system that doesn't work very well for its purpose, arbitrarily limits players who DO spend a lot of time playing per day, and is linked to a particularly dumb spell that needs to be reworked anyhow. people who macro are still going to macro with or without the system, and there's plenty of things they could cycle off to macro that doesn't rely on fatigue. not to mention the fact that putting an upper limit on development never works in practice if most players dont hit that limit; it just hurts people who do hit it and don't macro. saying 'it works because i don't see any evidence of gold farmers or macroers' seems fairly silly, especially considering for 2 months its been disabled and most people didn't even realize it lol edit: for clarity im talking about the cluster that actually has people not sfi Edited September 30, 2020 by RainRain Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted September 30, 2020 20 minutes ago, Nekojin said: Fine, if you want to go there: People who can spend unlimited* time in the game have a disproportionate impact on the in-game's economy over people who only spend a few hours a day. This has been evident to every major MMO development team since at least WoW's launch, when they introduced a Fatigue system in Beta, then changed it to Sleep Bonus when they got a predictable backlash. The only dev that I know of that seems to have missed the boat on this is Amazon's New World, who wanted to go in fresh without any preconceptions - so they're learning all over again what experienced MMO players have known for decades. First they had to learn (the hard way) that open-world PvP is a griefer's paradise, and makes things hard for new testers. After that, they're learning how automated crafting grinds can cause a hugely disproportional impact on the game's economy. Fatigue, as it stands, is the Wurm way of dealing with this. It seems to be effective - I can't find Wurm gold/silver on any RMT "gold-seller" sites, while WoW gold flows fast and free. If you want to get rid of Fatigue, just saying "get rid of it" is a non-starter. Come up with another way of dealing with the distorted impact of script-laden, unlimited play, and you might have some chance of getting something going. But just saying, "I'm inconvenienced, get rid of it," is a waste of bytes. You have to actually demonstrate the capping 8 hours of actions per day accomplishes all that before you can saddle me with solving those problems as well. You also have to demonstrate that those problems exist. None of that is requisite for any objection that I've made. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted September 30, 2020 The nerve of that guy, suggesting that me making as many yoyos as I want is some how griefing him. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted September 30, 2020 I am leveling cave floors. I have started yesterday. Timers are as expected, 60 minutes plus. [23:00:17] You have 6 hours and 31 minutes left. This means that i won't be able to play during my premium time. Does this freeze the premium timer countdown as well? (i think i know the answer). Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted September 30, 2020 1 hour ago, Locath said: I am leveling cave floors. I have started yesterday. Timers are as expected, 60 minutes plus. [23:00:17] You have 6 hours and 31 minutes left. This means that i won't be able to play during my premium time. Does this freeze the premium timer countdown as well? (i think i know the answer). Nope, it doesn't freeze premium. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted October 1, 2020 I have less than an hour of fatigue left when I log tonight. I will have to find other things to do tomorrow because wurm will not let me play it. I hate this. Turn fatigue off! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted October 2, 2020 [20:57:53] You are too mentally exhausted to do that now. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted October 2, 2020 On 9/30/2020 at 10:03 AM, RainRain said: edit: for clarity im talking about the cluster that actually has people not sfi Rough translation: "Meow" Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted October 2, 2020 I sort of understood the fatigue rule being needed when potential abuse was an issue in light of the RMT factor that was in the game. I really don't see the point of it now. I have seen new, paying players flat out quit when they came up against the fatigue rule. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted October 2, 2020 (edited) On 9/29/2020 at 11:21 PM, Nekojin said: It's true that if you play 11 hours every day, that when you start the next day, you'll only have ~5 hours of fatigue recharged. So, from that perspective, it doesn't seem "fair." But when compared to the other 99% of the player base that isn't putting pretty much their entire waking life into the game, letting you do even more wouldn't seem fair to them. It's up to the Admins to decide who is better served here. with takes this dreadful, I suggest we kill the suggestions category entirely Edited October 2, 2020 by Madnath 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted October 2, 2020 (edited) 19 minutes ago, Madnath said: with takes this dreadful, I suggest we kill the suggestions category entirely Yeah, by his reasoning, you could argue that nobody is allowed to do more than 1 hour of actions of a day. Just imagine how fair that would be! xD Why should the people with 2 or more hours a day to put into wurm get to outpace everybody else?!? Some of us have families and 3rd jobs. Edited October 2, 2020 by Primedivisor Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted October 2, 2020 14 minutes ago, Primedivisor said: Yeah, by his reasoning, you could argue that nobody is allowed to do more than 1 hour of actions of a day. Just imagine how fair that would be! xD Why should the people with 2 or more hours a day to put into wurm get to outpace everybody else?!? Some of us have families and 3rd jobs. The takes have been utter tosh the entire way. Trying to compare WoW gold to Wurm silver is a smoothbrain move at best, to be frank. I think the reality is, we have to live with fatigue. The devs are either too lazy, incompitent or uncaring to address any of the flaws it has, back then and now. It's a disrespectful and mean statement, but I stand by it because despite years of backlash, it's just another system on a wheelbarrow full of issues that have reported. Trying to prevent players who have the time to spare doing actions is a losing game. You'll always have someone more unfortunate or not quite as dedicated as everyone else who loses out. We already have a fantastic feature called sleep bonus to help people boost back to a more normal level. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites