Kings Coffers

[Hanel 18]

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[08:57:44] <Wtfarthing> so after over two months there are still no coins in the kings coffers????
[08:58:41] <Wtfarthing> Bugfix: King’s coffers on Northern Freedom Isles should again function properly (and give out rare coins during foraging and other actions)
[08:59:30] <Wtfarthing> so where's the coins?
[08:59:38] <Impetuous> ie they will now start to accumulate? you didnt expect them to put in what should be there surely, thats too logical 😜
[09:00:05] <Wtfarthing> i thought they might do the right thing by their customers
[09:00:17] <Wtfarthing> i know, stupid of me
 

[Hanel 18]

I tested this too. No coins. 

[Ekcin 2,407]

Mind that rare coins during several kinds of activities and coins when selling to deed tokens are two different things. Admittedly, I would expect a few coins being in the token sale fund too after the patch. But mind that "no coins in the coffers will still be the normal situation given the population density of NFI.

[Ogare 74]

2 hours ago, Ekcin said:

Mind that rare coins during several kinds of activities and coins when selling to deed tokens are two different things.

Rare coins from hunt/forage/botany come from the same pool as what's used to pay for the sell-to-token feature.

 

2 hours ago, Ekcin said:

 But mind that "no coins in the coffers will still be the normal situation given the population density of NFI.

I disagree. There seems to be some false idea that the more people there are the less money there will be. This isn't so. The money is not distributed equally. One has to do the tasks that drop coins. Hunting is hard to farm for coins in masses. Sell feature is tedious and many consider it not worth it. Forage and botany is pretty good. So unless every player is drudging through tedious sell feature or spending all there playtime forage/botany, the money's distribution will have nothing to do with population density.

I'd actually argue that, the more people there are, the money there should be. Every deed owner pays in equally from upkeep, every trader sales pays in equally. I"m not sure if silver used to purchase premium gets recycle with kings coffers. Anyway, point is income is good and expense is low. That should mean lots of money being recycle back out with kings coffers.

 

 

 

Lastly, It would so easy for a dev to make a loan to the kings coffers (add say 50 gold) and then for the next 10 months or so take out payments to repay the loan. The amounts aren't important as I don't know what's being payed into it.

[Ekcin 2,407]

2 hours ago, Ogare said:

Rare coins from hunt/forage/botany come from the same pool as what's used to pay for the sell-to-token feature.

That is at best partially true. On Xanadu, we went to two longer term (scope of weeks) situations with "no coins in the coffers", and a couple of short term (scope of days or hours) ones. All that time, rare coins from MOI still dropped, albeit they felt to occur less often (which cannot be verified, though). That disproves the assumption that the pools are identical, or, maybe, sale to token is stopping at a higher threshold. 

 

Quote

 

I disagree. There seems to be some false idea that the more people there are the less money there will be. This isn't so. The money is not distributed equally. One has to do the tasks that drop coins. Hunting is hard to farm for coins in masses.

 

I know from mass hunters that they collected silvers (pl) on a daily base. I never did, mainly because I do not kill farm animals when hunting.

 

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Sell feature is tedious and many consider it not worth it. Forage and botany is pretty good. So unless every player is drudging through tedious sell feature or spending all there playtime forage/botany, the money's distribution will have nothing to do with population density.

 

Your perception is short sighted. Even nowadays, I sometimes sell to token, mainly useless stuff from my forage/botanize habit. Even on Xanadu we had "no coins in coffers" situations, while the South Freedom population is spread over 8 servers, and most of them not bothering at all about token, and at best bit amused over a rare coin here and then. Mind that the playerbase in terms of simultaneous and daily logins nowadays is around 5 times above the pre launch times, at least three quarter of them on the three servers of NFI. There are lots of basic account players who will take the opportunity of getting hold on ingame money by ingame activities, and are playing ways more intensely than established experienced players.

 

That is not a bad thing altogether, and I find it regrettable that the king's coffers have not been available from start, as that may have contributed to reduce churn rate. But I am sure once the mechanisms starts, it will be used, and soon be overused.

 

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I'd actually argue that, the more people there are, the money there should be. Every deed owner pays in equally from upkeep, every trader sales pays in equally. I"m not sure if silver used to purchase premium gets recycle with kings coffers. Anyway, point is income is good and expense is low. That should mean lots of money being recycle back out with kings coffers.

 

To my knowledge (which is hearsay too) the coffers draw from traders' goods such as orbs, farwalker etc. but mainly from upkeep. Retrograde already made clear that deed creation does not contribute, and I am not sure about contracts.

 

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Lastly, It would so easy for a dev to make a loan to the kings coffers (add say 50 gold) and then for the next 10 months or so take out payments to repay the loan. The amounts aren't important as I don't know what's being payed into it.

I agree here so far as the availabilty of these funds should not be delayed further. After all, a lot of silver has already been generated and went into reflux in the meantime.

Edited September 28, 2020 by Ekcin
addendum

[Caduryn 129]

[21:18:30] A large round copper coin with two sheaves on it. This is a very rare and interesting version of the item.

[Ogare 74]

1. [16:28:22] There are apparently no coins in the coffers at the moment. ( 11:28:22 GMT on Cadence)

2.  I also spent a good two hours at forage and botany today.

 

 

@EkcinI considered going though your post and continuing to show why your wrong. But I'm not going to change your mind you won't change mine. For me, it's best to move onto stuff I control,  skill grinding!

[Retrograde 12,013]

This fills up as upkeep and other purchases trickle in. It will take time to fill, and there's a lot of people aiming to benefit from it so give it time 

[nitram20 90]

Its not like this whole thing is some easy magical way to make money to pay for premium like many people believe. 

You will be lucky to get maybe a handful of coppers

[Maiya 490]

10 hours ago, Retrograde said:

This fills up as upkeep and other purchases trickle in. It will take time to fill, and there's a lot of people aiming to benefit from it so give it time 

All upkeep  and other purchases since server open dont count then?

Couse those should been able to trickle in about now or they go direct to owner?

[Nekojin 197]

I suspect that a lot of the attitude of using the Merchants as coffer-looters is because of old data - back when deed upkeeps were done monthly, there was always a sizable flood of money into the coffers, and was predictable enough that some players had protected, hidden Merchants, so that when the upkeeps triggered, they could loot as much as possible before the coffers were drained. 

 

That certainly explains why they went to the constant-trickle upkeep system. 

[Maiya 490]

guess you talking about trader not merchant ?

[Nekojin 197]

15 minutes ago, Maiya said:

guess you talking about trader not merchant ?

Yes, sorry. I don't have one, and have never had one; easy to get them confused. 

 

It reminds me of one of my earlier sessions in Wurm. I was chatting with a neighbor when we saw, "Deed So-and-So has Disbanded." He said, "Hey, that's just up the hill from me. Want to go check it out?" So we did. 

 

The deed was twice the size of anything I'd build, lots of little landings for different buildings. Got some gems out of a coffin (?!?), some veggies out of a FSB. Most of the actual buildings were long-since dusted. There was exactly one building left, set off to the side, a little 1x1 jobby inside a gated enclosure. Inside that still-intact building was the trader, hidden away from anyone's use but his own. 

 

That confused me; I couldn't see the purpose of having a Trader if you weren't trying to sell finished products, and he told me about the whole idea of coffer draining. 

 

*shrug* People do what people do, and not everything has to make sense to everyone. 

[TheTrickster 2,284]

4 hours ago, Nekojin said:

There was exactly one building left, set off to the side, a little 1x1 jobby inside a gated enclosure. Inside that still-intact building was the trader, hidden away from anyone's use but his own. 

 

I had a similar experience in my early travels.  Found one on Indy, not even hidden in a building, just a trader fenced in behind a locked gate right there next to the deed token.  It was the first trader I had seen in-game away from Haven's Landing.  Later, on moving to Release, there was another one in a 1x1 shed, but not locked (or maybe alliance perms let me in).  It was only much later that I heard about this practice of sucking the life out of the game.

[TheTrickster 2,284]

I know that Retro has said that the two are not directly or simply related, but I have definitely stopped finding rare coins while all this has been going on.  

 

I specifically noticed this because I had decided I would actually collect a set of rare coins - since making that decision I found 1 rare coin and then it dried up.  Suddenly with the MOI I am getting rare branches and rare potatos, I even have supreme cumin, but no coins.  Maybe I am just exceedingly unlucky, but previously it was much more common to get a rare coin than forage/botanize a rare object and when it was the object that was rare I would find the coffers were empty if I tried to offload my low QL foragings.

[WesternConglomerate 16]

I got a supreme copper 20 coin last night on Cadence killing mobs.

[Tristanc 570]

I got a rare silver coin for killing/burying a troll.  The game's clearly working now on Harmony.

 

Edited October 1, 2020 by Tristanc

[Maiya 490]

Melody when forage /botanize got a 1 s coin

[Tpikol 1,057]

your trader stories sound hilariously fake, but this is now solved.

[TheTrickster 2,284]

I went foraging last night and scored a rare coin.  So, yay for that; it is now working.  It does show, however (at least to me), that this was indeed linked. Coffers not paying - foraging rare rolls stopped producing rare coins.  Coffers payments fixed - foraging rare rolls now producing rare coins.  There aren't too many dots to join there.

 

Now, as to the "coffers will gradually build up"; Wed Thur Fri?  This was portrayed as a problem with coffers paying out so all of that real life money people spent should have boosted the coffers and that large balance should have just been sitting there so that when the problem was fixed then the paying out should have just started again. 

 

"We are keeping it" is not a reliable fix for the meta-gaming that drains coffers.   

 

Yes, I feel like I am being miserable about this now that it's fixed, but to me something was and is missing.

[Tpikol 1,057]

11 minutes ago, TheTrickster said:

I went foraging last night and scored a rare coin.  So, yay for that; it is now working.  It does show, however (at least to me), that this was indeed linked. Coffers not paying - foraging rare rolls stopped producing rare coins.  Coffers payments fixed - foraging rare rolls now producing rare coins.  There aren't too many dots to join there.

 

of course those are linked, everybody knows that and nobody has ever denied it. what isnt linked is the non-coin rare forage results.

 

11 minutes ago, TheTrickster said:

"We are keeping it" is not a reliable fix for the meta-gaming that drains coffers.  

keeping what? are you not aware that draining money from traders hasnt been posible since long before you made your forum account?.

[Retrograde 12,013]

1 hour ago, TheTrickster said:

I went foraging last night and scored a rare coin.  So, yay for that; it is now working.  It does show, however (at least to me), that this was indeed linked. Coffers not paying - foraging rare rolls stopped producing rare coins.  Coffers payments fixed - foraging rare rolls now producing rare coins.  There aren't too many dots to join there.

 

Now, as to the "coffers will gradually build up"; Wed Thur Fri?  This was portrayed as a problem with coffers paying out so all of that real life money people spent should have boosted the coffers and that large balance should have just been sitting there so that when the problem was fixed then the paying out should have just started again. 

 

"We are keeping it" is not a reliable fix for the meta-gaming that drains coffers.   

 

Yes, I feel like I am being miserable about this now that it's fixed, but to me something was and is missing.

I'm not sure where the misconception happened but the rare coins are paid out of the Kings coffers. 

 

Receiving a coin is NOT the same mechanic as moment of inspiration rolls. It uses the same effect but is entirely separate