Freedom Map

[FlakAttack 21]

Well, that's true. But if that were any justification, it would have been for providing the map dump when the server opened (since there were rumours of a hacked dump within a few days). Most people are settled now, and probably not planning to uproot just because they might see a potentially good spot (which someone else has probably already taken) on a map dump.

Moot point, and possibly not even true. Those who want to move will be able to. Those who don't won't have to. Your justification not to have a map dump equally justifies having one. +-0.

Also i don't see good justification for freedom to Not to have map dump. Since all other maps did. (exept MRH which got it in the end anyways)

Rip has a point here, none of you have provided any reason for us NOT to have a map dump.

It's laziness, pure and simple. But I'm not going to bother trying to convince you further - I'll keep working on my map, you can keep on whining in here for a map dump.

I appreciate the fact that a chat moderator has so much respect for the people of Wurm that he can call them lazy whiners.

Artashes, look, I'm going to hold you to a higher standard than most because you accepted the responsibility. Grow up man.

[Danar 0]

Rip has a point here, none of you have provided any reason for us NOT to have a map dump.

Getting lost is supposed to be a feature.

It's laziness, pure and simple. But I'm not going to bother trying to convince you further - I'll keep working on my map, you can keep on whining in here for a map dump.

I appreciate the fact that a chat moderator has so much respect for the people of Wurm that he can call them lazy whiners.

Artashes, look, I'm going to hold you to a higher standard than most because you accepted the responsibility. Grow up man.

Oh please, chat mods are still allowed to have opinions.

[FlakAttack 21]

Getting lost is supposed to be a feature.

Artashes, look, I'm going to hold you to a higher standard than most because you accepted the responsibility. Grow up man.

Oh please, chat mods are still allowed to have opinions.

1. You can easily get lost with a map. Happens all the time.

2. He can have an opinion all he wants, but he must act respectful, like any person in a position of authority. When you accept that responsibility, you accept this part. If you don't want to be respectful, you don't have to accept the position.

[Danar 0]

Getting lost is supposed to be a feature.

Artashes, look, I'm going to hold you to a higher standard than most because you accepted the responsibility. Grow up man.

Oh please, chat mods are still allowed to have opinions.

1. You can easily get lost with a map. Happens all the time. 2. He can have an opinion all he wants, but he must act respectful, like any person in a position of authority. When you accept that responsibility, you accept this part. If you don't want to be respectful, you don't have to accept the position.

When you have a map and a compass, you're not even close to truly lost, you're the kind of lost where as soon as you hit one single landmark or terrain oddity you know where you are. Without a map, there's a very good chance that, without a road, I won't be able to find practically any land-based village or homestead. Different levels of lost.

And how has he not acted respectful? Did he not say it fancy enough?

It's sloth, dear chaps, pure and simple. But I tire of this discourse on the subject - I'll keep drudging away on my map, you can continue engaging in tomfoolery in this thread for a map dump.

 

I don't think your standards are being very fair in this case. Its an opinion, not an ice cream.

[flyingmonkey 1]

Can you always post like that?

[Danar 0]

Not my cup o' tea, gent, but I'll give it a whirl.

[Wolfram 30]

i think the main problem with why the community map isnt being updated is because alot of people find it awkward to add to.

if thats the case, i have an idea...go for the gold 1 style map dump. individual grids downloadable and re-uploadable.

an instructional paragraph about what colours to use and what programs from where would be helpfull aswell. i would think alot of people dont bother adding to the community map as they simply dont know how.

This sounds good to me. a standardised and simple way to update the map, in sections. perferably using something like Paint.NET so that we can work with layers

I personally don't need anything more accurate than we have now, just more detailed. There's gotta be more to that great big green section east of the fang & more roads/villages marked.

[Nightfall 2]

I personally don't need anything more accurate than we have now, just more detailed. There's gotta be more to that great big green section east of the fang & more roads/villages marked.

This is what we need to do, I want us to do this and NOT ramble about a friggen stupid map dump....

[Saddist 82]

adding altitude to the map, is a bit more time consuming, but not impossible. what your essentially asking for is 2 maps. the player made map, and the raw player map with slopes added. i made a mini map like this for my area of MR home. for the simple reason of being able to calculate exactly how much dirt i'd need to breach the escarpment in the bay of dreams. of course after the changes where made i just updated the slopes of the road i was working on.

even a map dump dosn't give altitude, there needs to be a new item.... perhaps a sextant in conjuction with a surveyors staff, make it a team effort.

work it something like.

person with sextant stands on a corner. the other person then moves away from person(to another corner) with sextant, placing their staff on another corner, distance dependant upon combined surveying skill, and then the sextant returns a difference in height(slope). with a high enough surveying skill the sextant could also tell you the altitude in slopes from sea level.

with the surveying skill perhaps it could have subskills one day.... orienteering, and mapping for example.

just a though anyways, im sure there could be other ways.

[Daash 183]

As i see it its either a community made map or no map, i have been offered the generated map and every time it have happend i have told them to gp where the sun dont shine and do something more productive.

A community map give the game alot more feeling since you cant be sure its 100% accurate and many people dont want to be on the map either.

With a map dump those people would be on the map either they like it or not...

Would that be fair to them ?

Wouldnt that spoil ALOT of the gameplay for them ?

I we didnt get a official mapdump from the beginning its to late now!

[FlakAttack 21]

Getting lost is supposed to be a feature.

1. You can easily get lost with a map. Happens all the time.

When you have a map and a compass, you're not even close to truly lost, you're the kind of lost where as soon as you hit one single landmark or terrain oddity you know where you are. Without a map, there's a very good chance that, without a road, I won't be able to find practically any land-based village or homestead. Different levels of lost.

We have entire sections of freedom that are not mapped, and we have no way to even begin to get an idea of altitude with any tools we have, in-game and out. All this wasted space so people can feel good about a community map? We have people who CANNOT FIND A HOME, and you would allow that to continue so you can feel more included?

A map dump is the most fair approach. I don't necessarily want the lake I live on to be broadcast everywhere, but there are roads leading to the damn thing from Samling now. I had no say in this, those roads got built and there was not a damn thing I could do about it. But why would I stop them? Wurm grows and changes, that is the nature of the game. Over time, people learn about and become comfortable with an area and wish to improve it. Now, we have come to a point where we know much of the landscape, and it's not like you can get lost on freedom if you know the mountains. Ideally, you shouldn't even need a compass (not that everyone has them, you make it sound like high ql compasses come jumping out of trees into your backpack). Anyway, point is, the map dump would simply be the final piece of the puzzle, like tar/peat locations we can't find because they're on top of mountains, and would allow people to better plan and optimize the areas they live in. I NEVER would have found the place I had on JKH without the map. Infact, the reason my group decided to go to JKH over MRH was because that map was available. I don't understand why some people here act so surprised that the map actually affected our decision... Put simply, it's because Wurm is hard enough as it is.

I don't think your standards are being very fair in this case. Its an opinion, not an ice cream.

I had written a long-winded reply to this, but really, this line of questioning and thought has got me nothing but insults and stupid comments from other people. I guess I should just assume the mods can do no wrong and be a buttkissing sheep like everyone else does. This debate is over. Clearly, you are the type of person naive enough to think police officers don't plant evidence, the law can't be bought off, and politicians don't lie.

[Guest MrConor]

Just give us the bloody map dump already so we can stop complaining.

I can understand it being on Wild, as it would show all the defences and etc.

However on freedom, all it does is show land that can be used by people that Wealthy landowners don't want people to have, and do it by all sorts of excuses.

oooh, this map dump will make the game unfair.

I find it even stupider how Gv doesn't have a map dump, seeing as it needs to be continually updated to be accurate.

Here on Freedom the only bad thing happening from the map dump is that some animals locations will be revealed, and the upper class hunters/old farts from JKH/MRH who have very high levels don't want their secret aggro location revealed.

[KaiH 1,126]

Here on Freedom the only bad thing happening from the map dump is that some animals locations will be revealed, and the upper class hunters/old farts from JKH/MRH who have very high levels don't want their secret aggro location revealed.

Spawn points wouldn't be revealed by a map dump. On the other points you are maybe right, at least it seems so considering some of the posts against a dump.

[Sagoth 0]

Next in forums - Request for map reset. Right after that - another map dump thread, which will lead us to - Yet another request for map reset. Followed by, yup you guessed it - Even more whining bout these two things.

[KaiH 1,126]

Next in forums - Request for map reset. Right after that - another map dump thread, which will lead us to - Yet another request for map reset. Followed by, yup you guessed it - Even more whining bout these two things.

That's the circle of Wurm-forum-live  ;D

[Saddist 82]

a map dump without terrain..... or coast or roads or deeds...... yes please ill have one of these.

no to a map dump......

[Ghosted 0]

Next in forums - Request for map reset. Right after that - another map dump thread, which will lead us to - Yet another request for map reset. Followed by, yup you guessed it - Even more whining bout these two things.

That's the circle of Wurm-forum-live  ;D

It is sad, but true.  People cant stop whining about one of the two things.  There is the group that wants map dumps, and the group that thinks they ruin the game.  Then when they get them the group that thinks they ruin the game try to get a new map.  Here comes the group that wants them again posting tons of map dump requests...

[Guest MrConor]

I would like to know the exact reasons as to why a map dump would not be beneficial to FREEDOM.

[Mystecore 0]

'cos you're in favour of it, obviously.

[EliasTheCrimson 348]

I would like to know the exact reasons as to why a map dump would not be beneficial to FREEDOM.

I don't think anyone is arguing that a mapdump would be outright game-breaking, the reasons on both sides are personal. You want it because it makes navigation, planning and resource-scouting extremely easy, I don't want it because making all those things effort-less de-mystifies Wurm greatly.

[Artashes 0]

I would like to know the exact reasons as to why a map dump would not be beneficial to FREEDOM.

I don't think anyone is arguing that a mapdump would be outright game-breaking, the reasons on both sides are personal. You want it because it navigation, planning and resource-scouting extremely easy, I don't want it because making all those things effort-less de-mystifies Wurm greatly.

[Tich 1,389]

We have people who CANNOT FIND A HOME

lol

How come the freedom market was planted without a problem, i'm sure other villages have been planted since.

And planting a HS is a lot easier, but of course it may not be next to this resource, or that resource, and not on the coast etc etc, but thats part of wurm...

[Urman 1]

I would like to know the exact reasons as to why a map dump would not be beneficial to FREEDOM.

Because Wurm is to some degree a game about immersing yourself in the Wurld.  To aid us in this immersion, there is no minimap.  We have only first-person view, so we can't see the spiders creeping up behind us.  We use player-made compasses to help us navigate.

There are many players who like Wurm for this immersion.  They feel that a map dump, or minimap, or third person view would not be benificial to their playing experience.  There are other players who don't really care about this.  Sometimes I think there is a religious divide in Wurm, and it's not White Light vs Black Light.

The shame of it is:  we have the ability to make and share player made maps.  Some players would spend more effort doing so, and have a great time doing so, and take pride in the maps they provided to the community.  But this doesn't happen as much as it might, because there is a constant threat of all of their work being made useless, or the knowledge that certain players have already used cheats to get a better map.

[flyingmonkey 1]

How come the freedom market was planted without a problem

I reserved it for that very reason  ;D

Since before I started the Cave Canal I had vocally planned to put a server trade center there, I may not have done it, but I got what I wanted in the end

Also why I suggested that spot

[Saddist 82]

The shame of it is:  we have the ability to make and share player made maps.  Some players would spend more effort doing so, and have a great time doing so, and take pride in the maps they provided to the community.  But this doesn't happen as much as it might, because there is a constant threat of all of their work being made useless, or the knowledge that certain players have already used cheats to get a better map.

thats the gist of it right there.

all i really want to here, is rolf to come right out and say..... yes or no. i'll live with his desicion as i always do.

id prefer to make a player made map. even if all we do at the end of the day is make our own little maps and then stitch them together.

the current player made map, is'nt to bad though, highly lacking and inadequate where i am of course, but thats beside the point. its a guide only, and i expect that the further a landmark gets from the creators actuall place of settlement the less accurate its likely to be.

But, if rolf was to be a bit offical and say there will be a map dump, then player made maps will be less likely to appear.

of course if he said there wont be a map dump, then i expect there will be a renewed interest in creating maps.

all that being said, is there anyway i can find a single reference point as to where i am exactly in the game server(not talking about a local landmark either, more like a x,y position), so that i have a anchor point for my map? there used to be acurate ways of doing this in the age of ships hundreds of years ago. perhaps we could have something similar.

or can a gm stitch the small maps together?