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Zera

Female "Rare" colors aren't transferring coats

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I've been in contact with 2 other breeders on Northern Freedom Isles, Harmony to be exact and we've all noticed that our Female "Rare Colors" don't appear to be passing on their color trait to any offspring.

So far I've bred two Black Silver horses together and wound up with a Black foal.
I expected to see a Black Silver offspring as both parents shared the same coat trait.

 

I'm getting similar instances from my fellow horse breeders.

 

Is this in fact a bug or are we all incredibly unlucky?

Edited by Zera

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hmmm... I'm in the Southern Isles... and I'm currently breeding a black-silver pair. So far the foals have all been grey. Just to be clear:
Breeding Pair: black silver female horse x black silver male horse 

1st foal - grey coat
2nd foal - grey coat

3rd foal - black silver!!  

also have a second black-silver female
Breeding Pair: black silver female horse x blood bay male

1st foal - grey
2nd foal - grey

3rd foal - currently pregnant

I will come back with foal color updates as long as this thread remains open / still in question. Would love to hear from more breeders. 

Edited by Amata

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if both parents have the same colour its not 100% chance that the offspring will be that colour too. Same goes for the traits.. if both parents have fleeter eg, the offspring may well not have it. and its not rare. i would say there is about 20-30% that the colour/trait wont get passed on in my observations. 

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Definitely needs a bigger sample case than just 2 offspring before concluding its a bug, as you might just be unlucky.

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I am on Harmony and was talking with Zera today. 

 

So far I have had 15 pregnancies of rare coat females. None of these pregnancies resulted in passing the rare coat. My neighbour though had an appaloosa female pass the coat, so it's possible.

 

I have had many instances of a male with rare coat passing the coat, just not females.

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2 hours ago, Skatyna said:

if both parents have the same colour its not 100% chance that the offspring will be that colour too. Same goes for the traits.. if both parents have fleeter eg, the offspring may well not have it. and its not rare. i would say there is about 20-30% that the colour/trait wont get passed on in my observations. 

 

2 hours ago, RainRain said:

Definitely needs a bigger sample case than just 2 offspring before concluding its a bug, as you might just be unlucky.

While I understand it's not 100% chance the offspring will inherit from parents who share even the same identical traits, it's also relatively uncommon that they don't.
For a lot of us to be noticing this occurrence as of late, it seems it's at least worth noting and having a peek into the coding. Many changes have been made to spawns and creatures over the course of the last two months or so and I wouldn't be surprised if something, somewhere went funky. Seems to usually be the case.

It is also best to bring it to attention now, so more data can be logged, tracked and hopefully spark and investigation into the matter before it goes on for far too long if it is in fact an error somewhere.

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I have bred many males and females with special colors and gotten the special color foals repeatedly. If only a female has the color, you have less than 50% chance of getting that color. It is very common for a 50/50 coin flip to drop 1 way or another 5+ times in a row, even 10 in a row isn't rare.

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As one of the breeders Zera contacted, I suspected there might be an issue with colours passing along.  Mostly it was just a feeling I had, but had put it all down to RNG.  At the time we chatted about rare colours so I never gave much thought to the other horses in my stables.

 

Since the second day of Harmony, I have had approximately 10 female greys all being bred with any colour except grey males.  I have never bred with a grey male.  This is approximately 10 breeds a week for 2 months (give or take given birthing times).  So saying, this would be in the ballpark of 80 births from these 10 females.

 

Of those 80 births from 10 greys over 2 months, I have had 2 grey offspring.

 

I'm not saying there is or isn't a bug, but I am saying it's slightly suspect that there is 1/40 chance of getting the female to pass the colour along.

 

Of course, now that I've said that, I'll probably get 10 greys out of the next cycle.

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9 hours ago, Carbon said:

I'm not saying there is or isn't a bug, but I am saying it's slightly suspect that there is 1/40 chance of getting the female to pass the colour along.

I recall reading somewhere that it was determined that the Female actually had the highest percentage to pass along their color than any other variable, followed by the Male and then a small percentage of it being a random roll.

With that said the likelihood of outcome should go in this order: Female > Male > Random

And in cases where the Female and Male share the same color, it increases that chance to get your desired color as it becomes something like this: Parents > Random

I have also had several Grey Females and have only ever seen 3 grey foals and that was recently. One pair being both Greys and the other a Brown and Grey pair.
However, out of having 6 grey females, paired with either another grey male or another color entirely, I would've expected to see more than 3. Especially since these have all been since the opening of Harmony and bred regularly as well.
I have however heard some people refer to the Grey color as "No color at all" also known as a "Blank slate" which I'm not certain if this is in fact essentially a {null} case or what, but if this is in some way fact it would make sense as to why using a Female Grey would be the ideal way to transfer colors from a Male or increase chances of a random roll.

Now I have had a Gold female produce Gold Offspring with a Grey Male on several occasions though, even recently enough to have 2 still in Foal Stage. 6 Golden offspring to be exact, and one random roll of a Black Silver.
The same going for any Blacks or Browns I have as well, these appear to be reliably passing on their colors just fine.

I am expecting my Silvers to produce another foal in the next day or so and am hoping to get another Silver from the pair of them, as the chances of a Silver rather than a random color should be greater as both parents are Silvers.

Edited by Zera

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As I understand it, and imagine a three sided dice that we don't see then:

 

First the dice rolls between mother, father and neither parent, then it rolls on the colors in a certain order, this the order is possible to find from datamining WU I belive.

Edited by Cecci

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So, I have finally seen some females pass their rare coats. 

Out of 25 cases, 3 have now passed their rare coat. That is 12 %, still a far cry from the expected 33 %.

I will keep counting.

 

EDIT: 

For anyone reading this later, I now have counted 50 births.

Out of 50, 10 females passed their rare coats = 20 %.

 

These 50 were both mated with "old color" coats and new rare coats. They were never mated with their own coat color, and never with grey stallions.

It's definitely more likely that they pass if they are mated with another rare coat, and I now mate them exclusively with rare coat stallions. Looks like this increases the chance of them passing their coat from less than 10 % to over 20 %.

Edited by CistaCista
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On 9/26/2020 at 10:04 AM, Cecci said:

As I understand it, and imagine a three sided dice that we don't see then:

 

First the dice rolls between mother, father and neither parent, then it rolls on the colors in a certain order, this the order is possible to find from datamining WU I belive.

 

In this scenario, none of the factors are weighted - a D3 roll for mother / father / random  would give an equal 1/3 chance to each of those possibilities.... Is that true?? I was under the impression that at least mother, if not mother and father, had weighted probability. 

 

And if the first role comes up "random" - are you saying that the resulting coat is then derived from a simple D2 (Yes/No) roll while going down an ordered list of possible coat colors? 

 

 

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The issue with horse colors is that they're traits, and are weighted.  You might have a black silver male and a black silver female breed a black silver foal - however the new traits are lowest in the order so if by some chance it rolls something like black or gold as well, it will have both color traits black and black silver or gold and black silver, but since black or gold are higher priority traits, the horse will be black or gold despite having that black silver trait.  Before someone goes trigger happy removing the chance of multiple color traits - its the only way you can "down" breed a rarer color (it rolls the rarer color but fails the dominant one)

 

A grey horse is the absence of any color trait, so a grey foal from 2 black silver parents just means you were likely to have a black silver foal but failed

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I'm on northern isles and everything is working as intended

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I've bred 5 horses with an appaloosa male X appaloosa female, and none came out appaloosa, which is disappointing, especially since the male has died now.  So now there's an even lower chance of getting an appaloosa offspring.  Same with my black silver female.  ☹️  No better luck so far with my skewbald pinto female, either.  The only one that has bred its own coat color is the piebald pinto.  You'd think if you had 2 horses of the same color, you'd have a very good chance of breeding that color.  

 

Edited by Lovely_Rita

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