Darklords

PvP Discussion #3

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Sorry if it's been asked, but are pmks being considered to be turned on yet?

 

Also, are champions going to be allowed at some point or is that a definite no?

Edited by WesternConglomerate

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No PMKs. Will splinter the population even more.


Make heal debuff a bigger deal. It's a joke how many times I can cure light myself and barely see a difference or how many times scorn can heal 50% hp back to back. I know that you want to keep LT good but im fine with it nerfing LT as well.

 

Making one WL kingdom could be a good idea to fix the population problem but would need more discussion.

 

Buff tangle weave. Make it cost less favor and give it a lower cooldown (or remove cool down together)

 

Give non priests an accessible way to slow or interrupt spells outside of shield block.

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3 hours ago, Zao said:

Making one WL kingdom could be a good idea to fix the population problem but would need more discussion.

 

While the idea of three kingdoms does mean that raw numbers aren't always going to win out, it looks like people just jump to whichever of the two WL kingdoms are stronger on paper. You end up with one kingdom starved for people, and the other kingdom in a position to pick on the weaker one even more than before. Switching to a BL vs WL system would resolve some of this, but it raises a few issues, like you said.

  • How would the current terrain on Defiance be handled? Would both starter islands retain their protection or would only one be used?
  • How would existing deeds factor in? Would everything switch over to the new kingdom?
  • What about guard towers? Converting those all to one kingdom may not be the best option from a numerical standpoint.
  • How would gods be balanced? It's been brought up before, but this sort of change might be the catalyst needed to split Libila off into two deities, one combat oriented and the other support oriented. Having to balance WL spells against Libilia's "Lorewise there's only one of me and this doesn't make sense but mechanically if BL couldn't do this it would severely imbalance things" leads to a bunch of odd spells and situations. Being able to balance Mag against BL_Combat_God and Fo/Vyn against BL_Support_God would make it easier to get some of these nuances worked out.
  • Would there be any plans to expand alliance powers in these larger kingdoms? Offices and titles are great, but Wurm is severely lacking when it comes to permissions for alliances. Being able to manage permissions in an alliance based on village as well as have restrictions and logs for things like the alliance annotation map shifts focus more to actual fighting rather than obnoxious metagaming and infiltration. Not that it doesn't have a place in games like this, but much of it is only possible due Wurm's dated permissions systems that lack any sort of auditing capability whatsoever.
Edited by Sovos
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could give non priests a cr or damage bonus against priests. or something like that 

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did some more scorn testing;

healing reduction DOES work, but i think it's bugged out because of the fact that scorn picks a certain amount of wounds and removes them- idk what this looks like codewise ( @Sindusk) BUTT i have my theories

Scorn works by selecting your 3 highest wounds and removing them; i thought it just literally removed them, but it might be applying a 100 power heal to them (healing each wound by 100); i say this because at 15m duration (75% reduction) scorn was still removing medium wounds, but at 90% it was healing wounds for about 10 damage each

would love if a fo priest could test lof too

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Incentives to live on PVP servers:  I HATE the fact that skills transfer, and the fact that they do causes the situation in which people can “live” (Grind) in complete safety and added convenience.  We all grind when we aren’t pvping, it’s the Wurm way.  Those of us that stay on the PVP servers to do so are at a detriment.  The choices here are to either make it so skills don’t transfer, or make it more worthwhile to do it on Defiance.  Period.  Ideas on how to accomplish this:

  • +5% skillgains on Defiance across the board

  • Double chances to gain affinities from normal activities on Defiance

  • You mentioned wanting to improve shield skill gains.  Implement a system on Defiance ONLY, that cannot be done afk on deed.  This will get you a two-for-one of bringing people to Defiance to shield train, while also encouraging off-deed activities and thus more potential pvp encounters.

 

PVP Encounters:  The core of the problem is nobody wants to be blobbed without any way to escape by the 97 people hiding in a mine as soon as you commit to a fight.  There are a few ways to help here:

  • Enable a mechanic to sense how many nearby enemies there are  

    • This allows someone to have a better idea of if the 5v7 is actually a 5v7 and thus more likely to take the fight

  • Vehicles - In Eve Online, it is possible for savvy players to fly a ship that is frail, but does enough damage and fast enough to effectively kite out large blobs.  It takes skill, and often results in death, but it’s possible to fight the blob.  The one situation I have been able to create this in Wurm, which doesn’t seem very possible atm, is back in the day in 2014 we would take a 5 man sailboat of priests out when the wind was a gale (yes Wurm has wind levels).  A 5 man sail heading into a gale was faster than any other boat, so when the knarr full of enemies on JK Home came after us, and another 10 were waiting on their shore to replace any losses they had, we were able to risk it and with some extremely careful piloting and priest spells (don’t think they had any priests onboard their knarr) we were able to get multiple kills.  This kiting went on for 20+ minutes, threading the needle of death.  If we turned any direction but N, they would catch us.  If we ran out of runway to the N, we died.  We were fizzling out on our spells and out of gems when the enemy gave up chasing.  Little did they know, had they pushed the attack one more time, they would have wiped us.  We also didn’t have any available backup.

      Essentially, If you can make a way for a small roaming group to be as fast/faster than the blob, but also inhibit the blob from utilizing it for whatever reason, you enable LOTS of roaming parties.

  • Create a new vehicle.  The chariot:
    •   It can have a driver + 1 passenger

    •  If it has two hitched horses, it is as fast as an unhitched horse, enabling one to have a chance at escaping the blob.

    • No animals can be led by the driver while on a chariot.  This makes it suboptimal for a large battle, as being horseback + a barded backup for every fighter is MUCH more effective.

    • The passenger can shoot a bow while moving.  This gives the chariot team a chance to bow out and slow down pursuing parties by hitting their horses, but it’s playing with fire because as soon as a chariot horse gets hit, it’s gg for the chariot team.

    • A blob might still have 1-2 chariot teams to catch enemies, but at the cost of more effective 2-4 people each with 2 horses, at least one being barded most likely, if a large battle ensued.

 

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21 minutes ago, bregga said:

Incentives to live on PVP servers:  I HATE the fact that skills transfer, and the fact that they do causes the situation in which people can “live” (Grind) in complete safety and added convenience.  We all grind when we aren’t pvping, it’s the Wurm way.  Those of us that stay on the PVP servers to do so are at a detriment.  The choices here are to either make it so skills don’t transfer, or make it more worthwhile to do it on Defiance.  Period.  Ideas on how to accomplish this:

  • +5% skillgains on Defiance across the board

  • Double chances to gain affinities from normal activities on Defiance

  • You mentioned wanting to improve shield skill gains.  Implement a system on Defiance ONLY, that cannot be done afk on deed.  This will get you a two-for-one of bringing people to Defiance to shield train, while also encouraging off-deed activities and thus more potential pvp encounters.

 

PVP Encounters:  The core of the problem is nobody wants to be blobbed without any way to escape by the 97 people hiding in a mine as soon as you commit to a fight.  There are a few ways to help here:

  • Enable a mechanic to sense how many nearby enemies there are  

    • This allows someone to have a better idea of if the 5v7 is actually a 5v7 and thus more likely to take the fight

  • Vehicles - In Eve Online, it is possible for savvy players to fly a ship that is frail, but does enough damage and fast enough to effectively kite out large blobs.  It takes skill, and often results in death, but it’s possible to fight the blob.  The one situation I have been able to create this in Wurm, which doesn’t seem very possible atm, is back in the day in 2014 we would take a 5 man sailboat of priests out when the wind was a gale (yes Wurm has wind levels).  A 5 man sail heading into a gale was faster than any other boat, so when the knarr full of enemies on JK Home came after us, and another 10 were waiting on their shore to replace any losses they had, we were able to risk it and with some extremely careful piloting and priest spells (don’t think they had any priests onboard their knarr) we were able to get multiple kills.  This kiting went on for 20+ minutes, threading the needle of death.  If we turned any direction but N, they would catch us.  If we ran out of runway to the N, we died.  We were fizzling out on our spells and out of gems when the enemy gave up chasing.  Little did they know, had they pushed the attack one more time, they would have wiped us.  We also didn’t have any available backup.

      Essentially, If you can make a way for a small roaming group to be as fast/faster than the blob, but also inhibit the blob from utilizing it for whatever reason, you enable LOTS of roaming parties.

  • Create a new vehicle.  The chariot:
    •   It can have a driver + 1 passenger

    •  If it has two hitched horses, it is as fast as an unhitched horse, enabling one to have a chance at escaping the blob.

    • No animals can be led by the driver while on a chariot.  This makes it suboptimal for a large battle, as being horseback + a barded backup for every fighter is MUCH more effective.

    • The passenger can shoot a bow while moving.  This gives the chariot team a chance to bow out and slow down pursuing parties by hitting their horses, but it’s playing with fire because as soon as a chariot horse gets hit, it’s gg for the chariot team.

    • A blob might still have 1-2 chariot teams to catch enemies, but at the cost of more effective 2-4 people each with 2 horses, at least one being barded most likely, if a large battle ensued.

So let it be written So let it be done | Wonder quotes, The bible movie,  Movie quotes

 

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I guess this got suggested a few times but let me add my 2 cents.

 

Are there any plans to make a new pvp island ? No way of PVE people to join in... aswell make it 3 factions.

 

I think with the new combat system+marketing push+ 3 factions and a large fresh island that could attract people. I would love to play on such a world. 

 

2 factions will never work under no circumstance i played a lot of pvp mmorpgs and you need 3 factions to level out if one side is dominating. The two weaker ones can band together. Otherwise people will either quit or join the winning faction making it a pve world in the end. Also dont let people buy silver on these worlds early on deeding instantly is a big turn of to people that cant afford that in pvp situations.

Edited by goemo

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Should be 4 factions and new gods/spells and make the map bigger by 1k. The terrain on this map is really nice. Just wish there was a little more water than the outer edge and lakes. Make land control worth it and more rewarding. I think having to defend something after you capture it for 5-10 minutes is great. Prevents people from swiping stuff up and running. Prevent zerging. Make it harder to have let’s say 3 people on you at a time. Do a timer on death tabs. Rework affinity drops. They’re kind of low key annoying. Make rank more rewarding other than titles. Remove rank decay. Or at least severely lower the amount that it decays by on whatever counter it’s on. Raiding deeds should benefit players a lot more. If a deed is big enough or has “x” amount of prem players you get a  massive reward to your character for draining and minor to everyone that is on the deed that is enemy. Make buffs s little more noticeable other than like true hit/oak shell/frantic charge. The other ones are almost never used. They should naturally last longer, and be something like whatever your channeling is should be the lowest cast you can get for that specific buff. So it gets away from the RNG in the game. I would honestly get away with RNG period. I should be able to fight someone and win/lose based on the QL/enchants of my gear. And actual skills in said gear/body stats/general skills in regards to combat.

Edited by Carmichael

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43 minutes ago, Carmichael said:

Should be 4 factions and new gods/spells and make the map bigger by 1k. The terrain on this map is really nice. Just wish there was a little more water than the outer edge and lakes. Make land control worth it and more rewarding. I think having to defend something after you capture it for 5-10 minutes is great. Prevents people from swiping stuff up and running. Prevent zerging. Make it harder to have let’s say 3 people on you at a time. Do a timer on death tabs. Rework affinity drops. They’re kind of low key annoying. Make rank more rewarding other than titles. Remove rank decay. Or at least severely lower the amount that it decays by on whatever counter it’s on. Raiding deeds should benefit players a lot more. If a deed is big enough or has “x” amount of prem players you get a  massive reward to your character for draining and minor to everyone that is on the deed that is enemy. Make buffs s little more noticeable other than like true hit/oak shell/frantic charge. The other ones are almost never used. They should naturally last longer, and be something like whatever your channeling is should be the lowest cast you can get for that specific buff. So it gets away from the RNG in the game. I would honestly get away with RNG period. I should be able to fight someone and win/lose based on the QL/enchants of my gear. And actual skills in said gear/body stats/general skills in regards to combat.

I think 4 can work aswell maybe even better than 3. Just more than 2 or its a fail from the start.

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1 hour ago, goemo said:

I guess this got suggested a few times but let me add my 2 cents.

 

Are there any plans to make a new pvp island ? No way of PVE people to join in... aswell make it 3 factions.

 

I think with the new combat system+marketing push+ 3 factions and a large fresh island that could attract people. I would love to play on such a world. 

 

2 factions will never work under no circumstance i played a lot of pvp mmorpgs and you need 3 factions to level out if one side is dominating. The two weaker ones can band together. Otherwise people will either quit or join the winning faction making it a pve world in the end. Also dont let people buy silver on these worlds early on deeding instantly is a big turn of to people that cant afford that in pvp situations.

 

We just opened Defiance like 4 months ago. Why would we launch a whole new server with 3 kingdoms (which we have now), and the only difference be it's not connected to PvE? That makes no sense... 

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bruh it took you less than an hour to raze a living deed to the ground yet you want "massive boni" for draining ontop of all the loot you took and the gratification of makong several people quit? jk wins again

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3 hours ago, Postes said:

 

We just opened Defiance like 4 months ago. Why would we launch a whole new server with 3 kingdoms (which we have now), and the only difference be it's not connected to PvE? That makes no sense... 

Sorry then iam missinformed people told me its a 2 faction one. Thanks for the info i might even check it out. Still i wished there was no option for PVE to drop in and out at will so you have to be comitted. 

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1 hour ago, platinumteef said:

add drain health to fo pls

give lib a single target healing cure light

Or maybe dont just buff priests...

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3 minutes ago, Joemog said:

Or maybe dont just buff priests...

 

thats not really a buff, its a balance

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3 minutes ago, platinumteef said:

 

thats not really a buff, its a balance

How is just adding new things not a buff?

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priests need to have combat downsides

 

also the old 1x1 damage area on siege equipment was way better than this 3x3

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Just now, Joemog said:

How is just adding new things not a buff?

 

they aren't new things, they are currently available spells that aren't on either priest but are sought after by each

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1 minute ago, platinumteef said:

 

they aren't new things, they are currently available spells that aren't on either priest but are sought after by each

You really don't understand how giving priests new spells will make them stronger? I give up then...

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Just now, Joemog said:

You really don't understand how giving priests new spells will make them stronger? I give up then...

 

i dont think you understand how balance works, but thats okay. if you want priests removed then post your own suggestion nerd

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On 11/30/2020 at 3:18 PM, platinumteef said:

 

i dont think you understand how balance works, but thats okay. if you want priests removed then post your own suggestion nerd

 

Well there's balancing... then there's buffing. I think you're confused. 

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It is both a buff and a balance. If you buff a priest available to each faction in equal measure, it can be considered a balancing buff. Seems like this argument has devolved into semantics. Joemog simply feels priests in general should not be buffed whatsoever even if the buffs are in an attempt to balance the factions.

 

I personally think the more back and forth we cram into this thread, the less likely the devs will be to go through it. Hope we hear some updates on the long-awaited combat rework soon.

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