Darklords

PvP Discussion #3

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yes there wont be a market on defiance, all the good items from defiance will simply be shipped to freedom for silver

why have a supreme armor item here and have it enter pvp circulation (unless a wler just keeps it in their dragon lair hoard as usual) when you can sell it to some freedom LARPer for coin

 

would also already break the freedom horse market, they are selling trash horses for upwards of 10 dolla- I mean silver and we could just creature transport a ton of clean 5speeders for infinite bank

 

NO

Edited by Muzukurin

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4 minutes ago, Postes said:

Don't see how this would help Defiance though? Most players it feels like would just take the good loot or rare stuff they recreate and go to PvE to sell it where there's a bigger market? 

Yeah there's not really a way to do this that doesn't benefit PvE. If it's bidirectional, then rares and supremes will immediately be sent over for silver and you'll never see them. If it's only from PvE to PvP, then you're giving benefits to people who have massive quantities of silver rather than everyone on the server equally.

 

I'd rather have it stay separate and just give inherent bonuses to those on the PvE server.

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The moment PVE and PVP will be mixed the way Chaos and SFI are I'm done on Defiance.

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BL still needs a way to do genesis. Horses (fast horses) are extremely important. Horses are almost always the first thing to die in battle. So a horse born with 1. It has malformed hind legs, 2. The legs are of different length or 3. It has some illness are destroyed immediately. WL has among it's many combined spells Genesis which removes bad traits making a horse that would be destroyed upon birth by BL, instantly perfectly good for WL. If horses are so important to battle one would think that the Battle Goddess would enable her warriors with a way to have war horses.

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I've seen people suggest the increased passive skillgain over time. That idea get's a big +1 from me. That is absolutely the way to go in terms of getting people to imp on pvp Defiance instead of pve. Just make sure the passive skillgain takes a good 72 hours to increase to it's maximum.

 

Priests are a different bag. Right now priests are extremely powerfull on the field and there's nothing you can do against one as a non priest.

The damage bonus and free res stone for mag priests are the biggest annoyance, but the CR buff for BL priests also falls under this.

Even without the passives priests will still win out because of their spell advantage. Getting hit by a fireheart is no joke, and I can't imagine it is pleasant for the local MR/JK player to watch their horses get slowed down by a ranged absorb health cast. Let's also not ignore Fo priests who might just enter the battlefield with no armor because a cheap spell gives them all the armor they need.

 

I feel that priests need a little nerf to their presence on the field, because there's little reason not to be a priest right now.

Perhaps a nerf to the passives would even things out, or some trinkets for regular players to better deal with the huge advantages priesthood brings right now.

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19 hours ago, Darklords said:

Incentives to live on PvP servers

We have seen a lot of concern about people living on PvE servers and only coming to PvP when needed for PvP. Looking for feedback on what might make you more willing to stay on the PvP server instead of living on PvE for the conveniences there.

A massive diffrense is the accessability to skillgain bonuses on pve.

10% as vyn follower and 25% extra from meditation which gives a netgain of 35% comparable to grinding smithing, woodcutting, mining and other good skills. its like having a lil bit more than a third of a sleep powders effect but forever.

Slap on some actual sleep bonus and its a 200% vs 270% gain.

As many people have mentioned the rites also pop 24/7 on various servers cuz everyone is a vyn follower for the obvious 10%-to-bloody-everything bonus... and there is no cooldown on the rites benefits.

The items made can be sold for additional sleep powder to build the character even faster.

 

So why are people on pvp? To fight stuff. They find that aspect of the game enjoyable.

But if they like the base game too, then losing out on a third of your potential xp gain is quite a huge longterm issue.

A person could spend 3 months grinding instead of 4.... 3 years instead of 4... etc.


So ya gotta counter that with pvp-specific stuff.


 

 

19 hours ago, Darklords said:

Off Deed Mines

There has been discussion about bringing back some form of safe off deed hop with restrictions to make them more balanced. We are open to giving this a try, it would likely be a new kind of mine door intended for use in these cases as to not nerf existing off deed mine doors. The idea for making them lock pickable but also having them lock off deed seems like it would work out well but we are open to discussion on what people would like to see. There is also likely to be more strict restrictions on how close these new mine doors can be together to prevent chaining them.

If they are lockpickable like a house and also quite weak then i dont see an issue. I think off-deed reinforcement beams should be mine-able on pvp yet more resiliant than a ordinary tile. I think that players shouldn't be forced to rely on priests to disintegrate tiles.

 

19 hours ago, Darklords said:

Roaming Inventives

Valrei and missions returning to NFI in the near future so missions should help with this but I understand the desire for reasons to be out raming the world. We will be looking to bring a roaming version of the depo back. What kinda rewards would you like to see? Would it spawning sleep powder be a big enough incentive to go claim them?

We want to incentivise roaming the lands, getting into pvp and reaping rewards from being brave and doing so.

Make the "temporary affinities" from kills be a 20% skillgain bonus that last a week.

Make treasure chests contain sleep powder and viewable from 50% longer range. (and perhaps make them less often have high ql locks to make them more available to the masses?). Perhaps more frequent?

Reward sleep bonus from going out and doing hotas.

Add valrei missions which reward sleep bonus. If its seen as "not enough" then just increase quantity untill it becomes desirable.

Hunting is supposedly getting fixed, so imma just ignore that, but thats a big issue atm.

 

Something important to keep in mind is that if a pvper is out roaming the land for 5 hours, then thats 5 hours of grinding "lost".

So if they get some sleep bonus or skillgain benefit from it then

A) They feel like they have obtained something from their efforts and been rewarded, thus making them more likely to do it again

B) Regained some of the grind-time they lost out on by running around and thus more likely to keep doing it.

 

Not to mention that it will incentivie people to go out in lesser groups roaming the map rather than a bait-zerg force. Thus giving spontaneous pvp at any time of the day.

 

But every pvp encounter has winners and losers. Thus to deal with regearing after losses:

 

Rather than just having the armour smithing title affect improving stuff, Let the following title types affect improvements....

Armour smithing: All items of its subskills (for the subskills which are over 50)

Weapon smithing: All weapons (including sickles, scythes, etc)

Tailoring: Saddles and the armour of its subskills (for the subskills which are over 50)

Blacksmithing: Horse shoes.

Jewelry smithing: Pendelums and rings

Bowyery: Bows.

Fletching: Arrows

 

Optionally a player can equip one of the subskill titles and then it only benefits that subskill rather than all of the subskills under a parent skill.

 

 

19 hours ago, Darklords said:

Raid Windows

We are looking at adjustments for raid windows, looking for people's feelings on how long they would like raid windows/the cooldown to change it.

It's fine for now. I havn't seen a deed yet which seems uncrackable in 6 hours.

 

19 hours ago, Darklords said:

Priest Balance

    Looking for feedback on how people feel about the balance of priests/spells on the PvP side.

Well ya made shield bashing godawfull to level and special moves are kinda hidden away.... So yea no wonder non-priests are getting frustrated.

Get shield bashing easier to level and make special moves easier to use (not in terms of skill but rather the stamina drain and what not).

Perhaps add some more flavour to special moves aswell. Get inspiration from other MMO's, theres soooooo many interesting combat abilities out there so im sure ya guys can be creative about it.

Heck, they could even be integrated into normal combat by simply triggering on the next weapon swing. Kinda like turning on "ranged mode" yet the moment you do the action it deactive.

 

19 hours ago, Darklords said:

  

Shield Skill/Creatures

We are currently working on changes for shield skill gains/creature distribution issues and wanted to note that as I am sure it would be on peoples list of feedback. These changes will be live shortly.

yay~

 

19 hours ago, Darklords said:

Battle Camp Hota

I have not seen much defending of battle camps using the new mechanics so below I copied the patchnotes from them to make sure everyone is more aware of the mechanics.  We are open to feedback on ways to make fighting/defending for control of them a more common event.

 

  • Battle Camp HotA
    • Battle Camps now spawn every 25 hours at random locations on the map.
    • These camps will not spawn in a village, under water, or on extreme slopes (mountains) or close to safe zones.
    • Lurker in the dark will now reveal the direction of 1 nearby battle camp along with its normal 1 nearby enemy player (Distance based on cast power/pendulum)
    • New Battle Camps start neutral, and can be conquered by using an action on it which takes 5 minutes. If a camp is claimed by an enemy kingdom, it must first be neutralized, which takes 5 minutes as well.
    • When four Battle Camps are conquered by a single kingdom, a HotA statue reward is created at the most recently conquered Battle Camp. All four camps that were controlled by the kingdom are removed from the map. Any neutral camps, or camps controlled by other kingdoms, remain in play.
    • Battle Camps have a loot option that lets the owning kingdom loot a lump of moon metal every 24 hours from it with a 5 minute timer to claim it.
    • When a new Battle Camp is created, all other active camps on the server will take 10 damage. When a camp reaches 100 damage, it is removed from play.
    • When a Battle Camp is created, it forms a 40×40 zone around it.
      • Players cannot terraform inside the zone unless they conquer it. When conquered, terraforming slopes are limited to 40 steep.
      • Players cannot create or continue fences inside the zone unless they conquer it and only within the first 5 tiles around the camp. When conquered, locked fences in this 5 tile area will not unlock for enemies when an allied player passes through.
      • Players cannot place mine doors in a Battle Camp zone.
      • Players cannot place deeds or extend deeds into the Battle Camp zone.
      • Players cannot construct or expand buildings into a Battle Camp zone.
      • When the zone is removed all fences in the zone will be deleted regardless of whether they were made before or after the zone.


 

As usual please keep the kingdom banter out of this thread.

How about this:

Each spawned camp has a visble meter that starts empty and represent 24 hours.

Pretty similar to how valrei missions are like. (theres a pic below for those unfamiliar)

Hota.png?raw=1

If a camp is capped by a kingdom then it starts filling up with the kingdoms colour (Red MR, Purple HOTS, Blue JK). If a enemy kingdom overtakes it then the bar lowers to 0 and then increase again but with the new kingdoms colour.

After the bar is filled it becomes lootable by the kingdom and reset its meter again. Basicly its a progress bar to getting Moon metal.

Also hovering over the bars would quickly tell the camp name, its quadrant, if a kingdom holds it and how long time is left to finish the bar. Once again, pretty damn similar to valrei missions.

 

Basicly make it a integrated part of the server and not something you need to read external twitter messages or go to settlement tokens for. It's there. It's visual and everyone will know what the situation of the hota is at a glance.

 

also i heavily disagree with this part:

"Any neutral camps, or camps controlled by other kingdoms, remain in play."

 

Also i don't think it would hurt if they spawned more often (more involvement in more timezones. more oppurtunities to go out roaming. more non-primetime pvp) but require more camps to win.

 

 

Just remember. The biggest reason to not be on pvp is the lack of skillgain. Counter it.

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1 hour ago, Grumpysmith said:

BL still needs a way to do genesis. Horses (fast horses) are extremely important. Horses are almost always the first thing to die in battle. So a horse born with 1. It has malformed hind legs, 2. The legs are of different length or 3. It has some illness are destroyed immediately. WL has among it's many combined spells Genesis which removes bad traits making a horse that would be destroyed upon birth by BL, instantly perfectly good for WL. If horses are so important to battle one would think that the Battle Goddess would enable her warriors with a way to have war horses.

oh you want the best PVP priest and genesis?

 

Not if fo and I have anything to say about it

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1 minute ago, Olloch said:

oh you want the best PVP priest and genesis?

 

Not if fo and I have anything to say about it

No I want equal horses.

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Maybe some kind of reward for various brackets of where you were on the pvp ranking for each "Season" of however much time. Maybe a cool banner, or flag, that you can redeem 1 of on PVE/PVP, something for the cosmetic hungry pve'rs to go after? But they'd probably just get bought 😕  however maybe that would incentivize some pve'rs to come pvp for a chance at some big $$ on harmony or whatever. I'd keep it cosmetic though, not drake/scale like the chaos/SFI problem.

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Ranked 'seasons' with cosmetic rewards you can only get on PVP servers was tried on challenge. Might attract pvers to pvp, but it might just make existing pvpers rich with silver on PVE side.

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6 minutes ago, Olloch said:

Ranked 'seasons' with cosmetic rewards you can only get on PVP servers was tried on challenge. Might attract pvers to pvp, but it might just make existing pvpers rich with silver on PVE side.

Yeah, depending on how they do it it would just make the elite more elite in silver and such. It's kind of hard to incentivize defiance without in turn taking incentives away from the pve servers.

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Just now, Radni said:

Yeah, depending on how they do it it would just make the elite more elite in silver and such. It's kind of hard to incentivize defiance without in turn taking incentives away from the pve servers.

End of the day can't make pvers play on the pvp server. 

 

But we can incentivize pvpers to stay on pvp by making it slightly better than pve. That might have the added bonus of bringing some pvers over

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11 minutes ago, Radni said:

Yeah, depending on how they do it it would just make the elite more elite in silver and such. It's kind of hard to incentivize defiance without in turn taking incentives away from the pve servers.

You really don't have to worry about incentivising PvE play.

 

There's a lot of players who will never set foot on a PvP server, no matter what bonuses there are - more than enough to keep the PvE servers well populated. The changes being suggested in this thread are specifically to offer incentive for the people who grind on PvE and only jump on Defiance specifically to PvP.

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Stop allowing people to target their own horse. This is not just a pvp issue but ridiculous at any time.

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how about we make The Wurm a god for blacklight and rebalance libila/wurm spells so that wurm is more heavily aggressive and libila has more supportive stuff

you know how the wurm was originally going to a god that libila summoned if she won tha valrei scenario, of which the wurm was supposed to be some sort of all-destroying god

b/c all this talk about libila being individually the same god is really weird- libila might have the most variance under a single spell list but over the 3 gods the WL kingdoms have, they have far better utility, especially non-pvp- and all three of those work together in wl kingdoms

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Oh fix taking on and off armor mid combat.  Kids are wearing plate and taking it off to cast spells. Priest should only be able to wear Leather and down. 

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kind of agree, i also dislike people taking off armor just to move faster for a few moments to catch up to someone- should have some sort of timer involved to equip gear

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21 minutes ago, AceRifle said:

Oh fix taking on and off armor mid combat.  Kids are wearing plate and taking it off to cast spells. Priest should only be able to wear Leather and down. 

 

Now thats an interesting idea

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While it's unrealistic, I don't mind people taking armor off on foot for speed bonuses as walking is slow AF, that said, getting caught unarmoured can be catastrophic.

 

Priests casting 95% of their spells timer and just throwing armor off to finish the cast and place it back on immediately after negates the point of armor/casting penalties.

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1 hour ago, AceRifle said:

Oh fix taking on and off armor mid combat.  Kids are wearing plate and taking it off to cast spells. Priest should only be able to wear Leather and down. 

 

As someone who was a through and through pvper for 85% of my wurm life, the pvp priest 'update' killed it for me. As someone else mentioned, non priests need a way to reliably interrupt casting instead of having to rely on either having more priests or being a priest yourself. 

 

Some people will say shield bashing, but even that is difficult to land at the best of times with the skill.

Edited by WesternConglomerate

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I don't really play on defiance or PvP, but here are some ideas.

 

Allow one way transfer of items from PvP to pve. This would allow PvP players to have an economy without having to travel to pve. It would also mean they could sell moon metals, hota statues etc... To actually make money from pvping. (maybe restrict some items if required?)

 

Have a passive skillgain bonus. It starts at 1% and goes up to 25% (to match the PoK which isn't available in PvP). Every 24 hrs it increases by 1% up to 25%, if you travel back to pve it resets.

 

Lastly add a way to reliably get sleep bonus on PvP servers seeing as buying SP from players isn't really an option. Pvpers spend a lot of time roaming and essentially wasting time. I'd suggest adding a small sleep bonus reward for hunting. Every animal you kill you get a small amount of sleep bonus, double it if in enemy territory. This would encourage everyone to go out hunting to refill SB and at the same time would mean random PvP encounters.

Edited by warrior
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On 9/23/2020 at 8:28 PM, Darklords said:

Incentives to live on PvP servers

If you want more people to stay on the PvP server then you need to provide more skill gain somehow. Maybe have a ramping up period where the longer you stay the higher the overall skill gain is and then cap it at 10 or 20% over the course of a month or something. Make HOTA victories give sleep powder to everyone who capped a camp on the winning side. Maybe make any kill that makes the death tab give a sleep powder.

 

Off Deed Mines

Make them lockpick able would be awesome.

 

Roaming Inventives

Sleep powder would be a very good reward.

 

Raid Windows

Make raid windows longer. You will not see actual raids until you do this.

 

Priest Balance

   Scorn of libila needs a veru slight tweak. As well as most healing spells in general. I think scorn need a slightly longer cast time. Healing debuff should be harsher. Tangleweave needs to have range increase and favor cost decrease. You also need to look at providing non priests a better way of interrupting spells.

   

Shield Skill/Creatures

Pets could do with a slight nerf or animal taming should be easier for crocs.

 

Battle Camp Hota

Nobody really cares about building up a battle camp area because it disappears quickly. Make them all spawn at once and make sleep powder be a part of the reward.

 

 

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1 hour ago, warrior said:

 

 

Have a passive skillgain bonus. It starts at 1% and goes up to 25% (to match the PoK which isn't available in PvP). Every 24 hrs it increases by 1% up to 25%, if you travel back to pve it resets.

 

 

Now that could be an interesting idea! Maybe higher than 25%, and something like if you participated in fights (need to make it so you cant abuse it and kill a 20fs alt. Maybe require them to be 70fs+? Maybe more % for more dmg?) you could gain even higher skillgain % for a limited time, until you'd have to go participate in another fight to keep your boost high. More boost for a 1v1 than a 6v1 maybe?

Edited by Radni
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3 hours ago, warrior said:

Allow one way transfer of items from PvP to pve. This would allow PvP players to have an economy without having to travel to pve. It would also mean they could sell moon metals, hota statues etc...

No, for two reasons.

  • This funnels items that would otherwise be useful off of the server, devaluing potential loot as a whole in order for people to make a quick buck.
  • This allows for PvE to get some of the PvP exclusive cosmetic items with none of the risk involved. PvP already has almost nothing, those cosmetics are basically it at this point.
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8 hours ago, AceRifle said:

Oh fix taking on and off armor mid combat.  Kids are wearing plate and taking it off to cast spells. Priest should only be able to wear Leather and down. 


1+
 

I have always been a priest and this is an interesting idea indeed, I think priests should be able to wear armour that isnt heavier then 2,5 kg per piece (for breast slot). Meaning studdened and chain armour would be max they could wear. They would be targeted fast and this would mean they would have to play more supportive and use shields and tankier weapons to survive in the back of the line.


 

9 hours ago, RainRain said:

how about we make The Wurm a god for blacklight and rebalance libila/wurm spells so that wurm is more heavily aggressive and libila has more supportive stuff

you know how the wurm was originally going to a god that libila summoned if she won tha valrei scenario, of which the wurm was supposed to be some sort of all-destroying god

b/c all this talk about libila being individually the same god is really weird- libila might have the most variance under a single spell list but over the 3 gods the WL kingdoms have, they have far better utility, especially non-pvp- and all three of those work together in wl kingdoms



I agree, stop trying to balance Libila against 3 gods and add Wurm as a fifth god and a second choice for BL. Make the wurm passive similiar to magranon with 25% dmg and make it some sort of drain health/leech fighting god and then have Libila as main healer/enchanter/debuffer goddess. So BL has some kind of Mag/Vyn combo but still lacking Fo (Makes sense BL wouldnt have any nature god, I mean......look at us)

Edited by Nocturnes

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