Darklords

PvP Discussion #3

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9 hours ago, RainRain said:

1. turn hota into something like my suggestion
the tl;dr: When hota starts, a temporary map (that changes each hota) is used. Very small map. Battlecamps spawn everywhere and only hostile mobs spawn (could use rift/jackal mobs too as well as valrei mobs). You can't deed here, you can't build here. Some horses will spawn around but it should be scarce. You can't bring any creature into this map, and you can access the hota through a portal at starter towns/portals that spawn all over the map.

Well this address one of the problems with current HOTA and a PvP thing in general. Current HOTA is to spread out for fast reaction basically you find 4 camps and hope the enemy don't find them to and then capture them as close as possible to each other so no way to react. Its more tactical than provocative fights. If I look at Wurm PvP or some of the concepts they would work way better with a larger playerbase, but I don't see the Wurm PvP server have 200-400 active players on each side in the near future.

9 hours ago, RainRain said:

2. remove all pvp/pve portals, and make it so the only ones that exist are the ones in starter villages.

I support this but only if we can take items then over. I would still like to split the faith and meditation path progress. And yes this includes the possibility to get Moonmetal out of the PvP server to the PvE server. This will encourage more people to join into PvP action since this is the only way to get these items.

Another thing that bothers me is the lack of reason to roam out of your land beside of HOTA(that we already established is a bit flawed in its execution) and the near impossible Traitor missions(that we let often run out) and I trow a quick suggestion to fix that like a month ago into the forum. Would also help with the grind on PvE server thing in spacial for the veterans who have rushed the POK and be level 11 soon and who have even less reason than to go on the PvP server to live and grind there. 

 

I think we realy need to try to summerize this thred some how a bit. Some things have come up mulitple times and ther was a lot of arguments repeated and it starts to become hard to read throught all this.

 

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I like the portals because I don't want people to be able to sail all their valuables to Freedom. I just wish Fighting skill and affinities transferred.

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So this thread has been going for a while and we haven't really seen many patches in the last half year regarding pvp or in general even.

Is there any news on a patch? @DarklordsPeople would probably appreciate it if we had a general idea when a new patch will arrive.

 

23 hours ago, Gianna said:

I like the portals because I don't want people to be able to sail all their valuables to Freedom. I just wish Fighting skill and affinities transferred.

Why not. People right now either log their valuables off or simply don't have any; all the grinding happens on freedom.

Without portals it's a lot less convenient to store stuff on freedom. Sailing back and forth takes time after all.

It also adds some value to the items on Defiance, since Defiance will get an actual economy. Even less reason to move over to freedom that way.

 

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I would encourage a change to missions being slay creature missions. brings more people out and about from what i've seen the past couple of weeks

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2 hours ago, Carmichael said:

I would encourage a change to missions being slay creature missions. brings more people out and about from what i've seen the past couple of weeks

The tower guard ones a very cool too!

Traitor should be fixed as most of the time it'll just be killed by enemies...

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These are some changes I have drafted, I tried to stick to making adjustments and tweaks to existing code(s) rather than adding anything too new or any large overhauls.

Ruler
 

Increase the random chance to become ruler with certain factors. Currently it's 1% and then some weird formula about premium accounts (which is stupid anyways).

  • Every 5 FS after 70fs (75, 80, 85, etc) increases 0.2% per 5 FS.
  • Every 20 rank after 1000 (1020, 1040, 1060, etc) increase 0.2% per 20 rank.
  • Every 1 month in a kingdom increases the chance by 0.1%, but caps after 6 months (0.6%)

In example then, a new player with 71 FS and 1000 rank has a 1% chance. A more seasoned player that has been playing since the start of the server (4 months), 82 FS, and 1072 rank has a chance of (1% + 0.4% + 0.4% + 0.6%) = 2.4% In my opinion, it makes sense that we up the chances to become ruler for players that fit the role - tenure, fighter, and has shown to be involved in PvP with rank. I believe that different rulers make the game more fun, they bring new life into the game, and give other players the opportunity to have their own legacy. That's why I would also consider more rules for abdication:

 

  • A mechanic that after 6 months a ruler is automatically abdicated (excluding PMKs obviously) to shake up the game a bit. 
  • Rulers should be abdicated if they have a bad success rate. In example: The subjects of Mol Rehan have slain x appointment levels of enemy nobles. Their enemies have slain x levels of Mol Rehan nobles, which equals x% success. After one month as ruler if their success rate is less than <30%, they should be held accountable as the ruler, and auto-abdicated. This gives more purpose to a ruler, the game can then determine if a ruler was really successful or not. Perhaps a title can be given depending if the ruler choose to abdicate, was forced to abdicate, or timed out after 6 months. 

 

Polearms and Barding Meta


Right now we're in a polearm and barded horse meta, and frankly it is extremely boring. Players that are not using a spear or halberd are at a huge disadvantage in PvP, and most other 2-handed weapons require 4+ hits to kill a barded horse. I don't like that polearms have a damage bonus against both horses and players, and the polearm damage against players works even if the other players are mounted. Watch this video of how fast someone dies against polearms because they are mounted:


There's an overwhelming amount of players using double barded horses (main horse has barding, backup horse has barding). There's so much time being spent in killing horses as opposed to actual PvP. If a player gets de-horsed, they just get swarmed in a sea of barded horse and have no chance of survival or even killing a horse. 

 

  • The bonuses with polearms need to be revisited. A lot of the damage bonuses should only work if the player using the polearm is on foot. Right now it seems (and I'm not positive, I don't read the game code) it works regardless if the polearm-wielder is mounted or not. Right now PvP is a lot of just going in, swinging once, backing out, repeat. I'd like to see damage bonus from polearms only work against horses if the wielder is on foot. 
  • Fix the bug with young horses and barded horses. This sucks, and it sucks more that so many are still abusing it, but I don't blame them. If you aren't doing it, and your enemy is, it's a major disadvantage. If you can't fix it, band-aid it by not allowing young horses to wear barding.
  • Barding should have a bigger impact on speed especially when horses are wounded. Decrease the speed of horses more when using barding, and heavily decrease speed when horses are hurt or wounded. Horses with chain barding at Wounded should be almost immobile (go less than 5km). 

 

Dual Wielding


There was a time on Wild (shoutout to Nosyt) when dual wielding was crazy. Weapons had the same swing timer, but it was nerfed to a point where the offhand weapon now barely swings. The game should explore more viable options for weapon types, and playstyles. We should have players that can choose to play sword and shield, 2 two handed weapons, or two weapons. The risk of dual wielding is you can't block and it should drain stamina faster because you're swinging two weapons.

  • Develop a better algorithm that determines offhand swing by timer based on weapon types. In example a large axe + large axe = 4s + 8s. Large axe + small axe = 4s and 6s, Small axe + Small axe = 3s and 5s. Small axe + shortsword = 3s and 6s (same weapon category would give a small bonus as opposed to mixing and matching).

 

Economy, PvE


No one buys anything on Defiance unless they're crazy, and most valuable items have no worth here because the risk of dying and losing it is likely. I don't understand why we're not allowing affinities and all skills (including Fight Skill) to transfer from PvP to PvE. If someone on PvE wants to train up there, and then hop over to Defiance to take the risk and try to gain some affinities - go for it! Who cares? If they're coming over and taking the risk, killing other players, earning affinities, they deserve to keep them regardless what server they go to. 

  • Allow FS to transfer between Defiance/PvE. Perform a one-time data job to keep highest FS based on which server its highest on.
  • Allow affinities to transfer between Defiance/PvE. Perform a one-time data job to merge affinities players have on both servers.
  • If using the portal from PvE to Defiance, all items on you transfer, but then stay on Defiance. A warning message would need to be implemented. 

I'll tie in how items can be transferred over below through another mechanic, but I do agree players should be able to come to Defiance, participate in HotA and events, and profit from the rewards.

 

Kingdom Game


Defiance should be all about the kingdom winning, not individual players. A lot of the rewards are not scalable. They work in a small game, but if the server had 500+ players, there would be a lot of complaints over how small of a reward there is. HotA, Valrei scenarios, and the depot is they're based really around a few single players in a group winning them. Most players do not benefit from the rewards or do not value moon-metal that much, and I agree. If I was new I wouldn't care if I had a few KGs of moon metal. We need rewards that benefit the kingdom, and prompt a better kingdom-wide incentive. 


Changes to HotA:

 

  • Farwalker - 10% kingdom-based increased skill gain for 3 hours (except FS) + 1 moon metal lump
  • Bear - +1 kingdom-based bonus to offensive combat rating for 3 hours + 1 moon metal lump
  • Archer - +1 kingdom-based bonus to defensive combat rating for 3 hours + 1 moon metal lump
  • Emerald - 10% faster favor regeneration for 3 hours + 1 moon metal lump
  • Dragon - 10% increased chance to make an item go rare, supreme, or fantastic for 3 hours + 1 moon metal lump
  • Champion - 15% decrease in hunger/thirst drain for 3 hours + 1 moon metal lump

If a kingdom does capture 4 and win HotA, the buffs then increase for 12 or 24 hours (don't want to go crazy here, whatever feels right). That way a kingdom caps let's say Emerald, Bear, Farwalker, and Champion the entire kingdom receives offensive CR, increase favor regeneration, decreased hunger/thirst drain, and skill gain. It's small, but it's more impactful to everyone and rewards everyone. Right now I think if a group of 10 or more go to HotA there isn't enough rewards to go around.


I think the same logic needs to tie into scenario events. A random winner isn't fun when there are so many participants. You can have 10,000+ scenario points and win nothing. If there's missions for the kingdom, and the entire kingdom participates, why are selecting just 3 winners? Again, if this was a larger scale game there would be a lot of complaints that the prizes are going only to 3 players. I think it's okay that 3 players win some exclusive items, but there also needs to be a reward for the kingdom with it.

 

 

Golden Ticket

 

I think there should be a new item in the game introduced called the Golden Ticket. It's a no-drop one time use reward item that allows a user to sail to the northern border of Defiance, and cross into Harmony. The user can only have a maximum of 99 in their inventory + body, and maximum of 99 items in the boat. This will begin to allow users to come to PvP servers, fight, pillage, raid, get rewards, and then go to a PvE server to profit. It's more incentive for players to take risks, raid, go for HotAs, kill uniques, and participate in missions. The golden ticket can be gained:

 

  • Chance it drops when killing a unique
  • Chance it is a reward from Valrei scenario
  • Chance it is a reward after a kingdom's every 10th HotA win

 

 

Just some ideas and food for thought.

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On 12/13/2020 at 5:06 AM, Postes said:

Apologies, I'm kind of behind the times, and only just realized that not everything transfers between PvP and PvE servers such as Fight Skill and affinities. Is there any specific reason for that? To me, it feels like we're excluding a demographic of players who might want to PvP part-time or come over to try to gain more affinities. I personally don't really care if someone wants to spend their time on a PvE server grinding safely for weapon, shield, and fight skill because anyone could do that. I think it's probably more of a turn-off for someone to do all that work on a PvE server, portal over, and realize they need to get 70 FS all again. 


Agreed, i've changed my thoughts on the portals, I really like them now, agreed on the double grind of FS and reward of gaining affinities, there is the sleep powder drops so that keeps Defiance players hunting at home, I think a little more could be done for regular play on Defiance but meh.


 

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On 12/16/2020 at 7:34 AM, RainRain said:

gonna echo something from discord

1. turn hota into something like my suggestion
the tl;dr: When hota starts, a temporary map (that changes each hota) is used. Very small map. Battlecamps spawn everywhere and only hostile mobs spawn (could use rift/jackal mobs too as well as valrei mobs). You can't deed here, you can't build here. Some horses will spawn around but it should be scarce. You can't bring any creature into this map, and you can access the hota through a portal at starter towns/portals that spawn all over the map.

Otherwise it works the same as hota now: battlecamps spawn, you capture them and they spawn guards that attack enemies. First to capture 4 wins. After someone wins, the statue for the winners spawns in the starter village for them under ownership of the final person to capture a camp + all the loot in it. After 1 hour of someone winning, the server resets and boots all players off of it back to their respective starter villages (players can also leave via portals inside the world). Bam, that's hota.

2. remove all pvp/pve portals, and make it so the only ones that exist are the ones in starter villages.

This way you don't need to do anything complex like linking servers via sailing, players still get the option whether to go to pvp/pve to grind, but pvp players cant infinite grind on pve and only pop over for pvp- plus as people will be travelling between their starter towns and villages it might open up pvp situations where enemies could go deep into territory and pull risky plays


1. No. there is more to all the types of HoTa than a battle arena, the whole map comes into play with it's varied terrain 

2. No. That's dumb, leave it. There's enough time wasting in this game already, grinding / pointless travel, you aren't going to catch anyone going to starter town for it to be worth the extra PITA. 
 

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Before they even do anything to better Valrei, they need to make all gods EQUAL. That way Mag doesn't win 90% of the scenarios

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16 minutes ago, Omar said:


1. No. there is more to all the types of HoTa than a battle arena, the whole map comes into play with it's varied terrain 

2. No. That's dumb, leave it. There's enough time wasting in this game already, grinding / pointless travel, you aren't going to catch anyone going to starter town for it to be worth the extra PITA. 
 

 

 

you can have both with 1 tbh; one that happens once a week or so and is more of a battle arena, and then the hota we have now assuming it ever gets fixed happening every few days + depot littered in between

also obviously the temporary map shouldn't just be some flat plane- it should have randomized terrain to a certain extent

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On 12/19/2020 at 8:16 PM, Carmichael said:

Before they even do anything to better Valrei, they need to make all gods EQUAL. That way Mag doesn't win 90% of the scenarios

What gives Magranon an advantage in your opinion? The plan is already to make the super easy scenarios with only a few mission items a thing of the past and to boost the rewards for the new always longer lengths of them. Only saw a few suggestions for what people would like to see for these new rewards so if anyone else has thoughts on that now is the time before stuff becomes more finalized.

 

On 12/19/2020 at 9:43 AM, GroeneAppel said:

So this thread has been going for a while and we haven't really seen many patches in the last half year regarding pvp or in general even.

Is there any news on a patch? @DarklordsPeople would probably appreciate it if we had a general idea when a new patch will arrive.

 

Why not. People right now either log their valuables off or simply don't have any; all the grinding happens on freedom.

Without portals it's a lot less convenient to store stuff on freedom. Sailing back and forth takes time after all.

It also adds some value to the items on Defiance, since Defiance will get an actual economy. Even less reason to move over to freedom that way.

 

Likely going to be very early in the new year, the plan is to have a large list of proposed changes before the years end for some discussion on before a release early 2021. Thank you everyone for the feedback so far its been extremely helpful and keep it coming.

 

 

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remove gravestones, remove res stones

 

they are as cancer as the non looting with someone nearby on epic, recalling corpses while a fight is still going is retarded

 

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Disagree with removing graves. As an alternative, reduce the timer to 15-30 seconds or have it so that you randomly pull an item from a corpse every second of the loot action rather than all at once at the end. The loot action could also incur a huge cr penalty while active

In-combat looting is bad and lame, but so is not being able to loot quickly at all (i.e near enemy deed). I’d also suggest adding graves for horses or at least tamed animals.

 

100% agree with removing res-stones and the res stone passive for magranon. 
 

Also, I thibk you guys should look into how valrei spells cna be brought back so they can be included in scenarios again. I propose:

1. Obviously, examine each spell and determine which one is good or which needs changes (buffs or nerfs)

2. Don’t allow people to know multiple spells. Once you read a book, thats your spell. If you read another book/get another spell, you lose knowledge of the last spell you had.

3. Remove the DR adjustment from each book. The idea of learning magic changing you a little was cool, but was a failed implementation.

 

Enki has made some really cool items in the past as part of his minigames. It would be cool if named, “minor artifacts” could be dropped from valrei missions. What this can be is up to you all, but starting with the type of stuff Enki has made for his Enkounters is a neat idea (i.e a shovel that can rebirth monsters). Such artifacts would not be improve able, but would otherwise be a normal item with a special name.

 

Since the value if rare/supreme/fantastic armor and weapons add to the game is fairly low, i’d love to see armor pieces or weapons of various metal types and raritirs be dropped by missions. Nothing is busted about a certain player getting a fantastic huge axe, since rarity barely does anything. But it’d definitely be cool (assuming that as you say, scenarios are longer term)

 

If this game had real lore you could also base signatures on the weapons off that or something lol

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2 hours ago, Darklords said:

What gives Magranon an advantage in your opinion? The plan is already to make the super easy scenarios with only a few mission items a thing of the past and to boost the rewards for the new always longer lengths of them. Only saw a few suggestions for what people would like to see for these new rewards so if anyone else has thoughts on that now is the time before stuff becomes more finalized.

So it's the stats the each god has that is the biggest issue, each god having different stats doesn't really benefit them in any way. To fight, Mag comes out on top from the beginning because of simply having like 5-10 body strength over the others. They will almost always beat any other god they are fighting. I would make all of their stats equal, that way each kingdom/god has an equal opportunity to win a fight vs another god. Of course basing a battle of missions for a very very very slight advantage would be nice. But nothing too overpowering.

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Making gods equal and moving them to more central points on the nap would be cool. Is changing the map off the board (heh) too? I think the current shape means its hard to provide balanced starts.

 

There was a post linked a few pages ago that tried to math out the probability of magranon winning fights, and his lowest win chance was 60% vs Libila.

 

Also idea: can the title that gived 10% favor regen speed be changed to instead give a 90% karma discount on guiding your god or something similar? Valrei board being more in control of players feels better, but i’ve not had as much experience as others with it so who knows if thats even a good idea.

Edited by RainRain

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can we get npcs that roam the map and give rank and affinities and such since the servers are all dead

 

pubg did it

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Posted (edited)

so why are we buffing priests by giving them the fire/ice/acid spells while the narrative 3 years ago was trying to walk away from priests being the pvp normal, I have a dang headache, my head hurts

you guys remember support roles?  imping for any one of these guys gives the sense of imping for a bloated lard, no offense if this literally applies.

only thing that needs to be done is remove all tome mechanics, give players a 50% refund on market prices, and apologize for breaking the pvp mechanic.  everyone is being asked to pony up 1000 euro.  you go up against any one of these guys and 80% of your health is gone, pun not intended.  you guys remember support roles?

just plot the update on the activity chart and you've got all of your information right there.

Edited by Johnston3

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Posted (edited)

pmks on defiance when?? its been 6 months helloooo 

Spoiler

heloooooooooo

 

also can you make it require a more reasonable number of people like 15 instead of 25

Edited by platinumteef
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10 minutes ago, platinumteef said:

pmks on defiance when?? its been 6 months helloooo 

  Hide contents

heloooooooooo

 

also can you make it require a more reasonable number of people like 15 instead of 25

 +1 but also with no champing

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1 hour ago, platinumteef said:

pmks on defiance when?? its been 6 months helloooo 

  Reveal hidden contents

heloooooooooo

 

also can you make it require a more reasonable number of people like 15 instead of 25

Yeah let's be realistic and lower creation pop requirement. If any just charge more for it. Save me the pain of preming alts.

 

 

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pmk's should never be introduced, period.

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On 5/16/2021 at 10:36 AM, RainRain said:

pmk's should never be introduced, period.

Why not just curious? PMK’s usually stir things up on a stale server.

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On 5/20/2021 at 2:06 AM, AceRifle said:

Why not just curious? PMK’s usually stir things up on a stale server.


I think they were never implemented in a good way and don't actually 'stir' things up- I think most of that comes from people who rejoin the game in order TO form the pmk, rather than anything about the pmk themselves.

IMO the 3 kingdom system itself doesn't work at all either. PMK's mess up the already complicated map pressure of pvp servers, and add next to nothing to pvp servers aside from (usually) killing the original kingdom the pmk was founded from, on top of having very messy mechanics to even be formed.

I honestly think defiance is ###### at this point anyways. I'd rather see a map wipe with a smaller map, static deeds (that is, 'deeds' are predetermined areas around the map that need to be conquered by kingdoms rather than placed) and one less kingdom (alternatively, no starter kingdoms, and only PMK's) than see PMK's, something i view as a broken mechanic introduced into an already broken down server

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21 hours ago, RainRain said:


I think they were never implemented in a good way and don't actually 'stir' things up- I think most of that comes from people who rejoin the game in order TO form the pmk, rather than anything about the pmk themselves.

IMO the 3 kingdom system itself doesn't work at all either. PMK's mess up the already complicated map pressure of pvp servers, and add next to nothing to pvp servers aside from (usually) killing the original kingdom the pmk was founded from, on top of having very messy mechanics to even be formed.

I honestly think defiance is ###### at this point anyways. I'd rather see a map wipe with a smaller map, static deeds (that is, 'deeds' are predetermined areas around the map that need to be conquered by kingdoms rather than placed) and one less kingdom (alternatively, no starter kingdoms, and only PMK's) than see PMK's, something i view as a broken mechanic introduced into an already broken down server

 

Something I would like to see on a new map is no Kingdoms. Only villages and Village alliance. Once your village hits a specific size, you can pick a chief. Only one chief per alliance. Within the village, you have Wl/Bl cults so you can have mix wl/bl priest within the village.

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