Darklords

PvP Discussion #3

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its okay eventually all the gods ally with each other through mutual friends on the board and they just walk through each other for some reason

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every single jk suggestion in this has been absolutelly terrible, game killing garbage that ONLY benefits them and their game crushing, make people quit to win wurm mentality

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So it has been brought to my attention that the new Valrei rewards are lacking for the amount of effort it takes and I fully agree, looking for suggestions on things people would like to see as rewards.

 

We are also going to increase the minimum amount of items a scenario can start with as 2 item missions won't work with a buffed reward structure.

 

 

From the release notes for reference on the current reward structure.

  • Tier 1(1 Player): One Resurrection Stone/Two 1kg Seryll Lumps/One roll on the side items table/roll for small magic chest.

  • Tier 2(3 Players): Two 1kg Seryll Lumps/1 roll on the side items table.

  • Tier 3(5 Players): One 1kg Seryll Lump

Side items table only consists of shaker orbs and resurrection stones currently.

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1 hour ago, Darklords said:

So it has been brought to my attention that the new Valrei rewards are lacking for the amount of effort it takes and I fully agree, looking for suggestions on things people would like to see as rewards.

 

We are also going to increase the minimum amount of items a scenario can start with as 2 item missions won't work with a buffed reward structure.

 

 

From the release notes for reference on the current reward structure.

  • Tier 1(1 Player): One Resurrection Stone/Two 1kg Seryll Lumps/One roll on the side items table/roll for small magic chest.

  • Tier 2(3 Players): Two 1kg Seryll Lumps/1 roll on the side items table.

  • Tier 3(5 Players): One 1kg Seryll Lump

Side items table only consists of shaker orbs and resurrection stones currently.

 

Special skins for armour, weapons, etc.

 

Additionally, perhaps make the skins transferrable to Freedom, but make it so they can't be sold (i.e. so they're bound to your account). That way it's also an incentive for people who normally play on Freedom to go over to the PvP server and participate in Valrei missions to make their Freedom character look more unique.

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Tier 1 (1 player): One ressurection stone, 5kg of Seryll, 1 roll on the awesome table, cosmetic kit, 1 roll on the regular table, winner pack

Tier 2 (3 players): 5 kg of Seryll, 2 rolls on the regular table, winner pack

Tier 3 (5 players): 3 kg of Seryll, winner pack

       
  Awesome table    
  Roll for one of the following:    
  Huge egg    
  Wand of the seas    
  Modified sculpting wand Modification: 100ql Sculpting wand that loses 0.33ql per height removed. recharges 1ql per day.  
  Supreme strange bone    
       
  Cosmetic kit    
  Always rewards:    
  One random mask    
     
       
  Regular table:    
  Spyglass    
     
  Rare strange bone    
  Droppable summer hat    
     
     
  Ressurection stone    
  Small magical chest    
  Droppable summer hat    
       
  Winner pack:    
  5 sleep powder    
  Champagne Fantastic/Supreme/Rare depending on tier.  
     

 

 

Note: a roll always give 1 reward option.

 

Edited by Zekezor
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1 hour ago, Zekezor said:
Spoiler

 

Tier 1 (1 player): One ressurection stone, 5kg of Seryll, 1 roll on the awesome table, cosmetic kit, 1 roll on the regular table, winner pack

Tier 2 (3 players): 5 kg of Seryll, 2 rolls on the regular table, winner pack

Tier 3 (5 players): 3 kg of Seryll, winner pack

       
  Awesome table    
  Roll for one of the following:    
  Huge egg    
  Wand of the seas    
  Modified sculpting wand Modification: 100ql Sculpting wand that loses 0.33ql per height removed. recharges 1ql per day.  
  Supreme strange bone    
       
  Cosmetic kit    
  Always rewards:    
  One random mask    
     
       
  Regular table:    
  Spyglass    
     
  Rare strange bone    
  Droppable summer hat    
     
     
  Ressurection stone    
  Small magical chest    
  Droppable summer hat    
       
  Winner pack:    
  5 sleep powder    
  Champagne    
     

 

 

Note: a roll always give 1 reward option.

 

 

I like this a lot. Seryll should be upped like it is in here, but not too much because you don't want too much, and too little. I would probably up the Sleep Powders too to almost double or more from what it is vs the amount of time it takes. But balance it out so like say you get a wand of seas/huge egg you only get 5 hours of SB. For the huge egg, I'd make it random from any dragon/drake.

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5 hours ago, Darklords said:

So it has been brought to my attention that the new Valrei rewards are lacking for the amount of effort it takes and I fully agree, looking for suggestions on things people would like to see as rewards.

 

We are also going to increase the minimum amount of items a scenario can start with as 2 item missions won't work with a buffed reward structure.

 

 

From the release notes for reference on the current reward structure.

  • Tier 1(1 Player): One Resurrection Stone/Two 1kg Seryll Lumps/One roll on the side items table/roll for small magic chest.

  • Tier 2(3 Players): Two 1kg Seryll Lumps/1 roll on the side items table.

  • Tier 3(5 Players): One 1kg Seryll Lump

Side items table only consists of shaker orbs and resurrection stones currently.

So after all the discussion on this thread about raid timers. Mine hops. Trying to keep pvpers on the pvp server. This is what you came up with? This is all your team is worried about? This really makes me sad for the state of this game. With all the silence I was hoping for a big update coming. 

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32 minutes ago, Atndy said:

So after all the discussion on this thread about raid timers. Mine hops. Trying to keep pvpers on the pvp server. This is what you came up with? This is all your team is worried about? This really makes me sad for the state of this game. With all the silence I was hoping for a big update coming. 

no its just a new point that was brought up. theres plenty of older points still being worked on.

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come on jk all you suggest is off deed minehops and being locked out of your account for dying

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1 hour ago, Muzukurin said:

come on jk all you suggest is off deed minehops and being locked out of your account for dying

yeah so people actually have some sort of advantage vs people who stay on deed and respawn when they die. because you're at every disadvantage possible when you go to enemy lands on defiance

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Suggested additions to PvP death/gravestone mechanics;

 

Upon death to an enemy player each item in the inventory of the deceased is individually auto rolled by the game and distributed between the participating enemy player/s and the gravestone. Loot rolls won by participating enemy player/s is spawned directly into their inventories and loot rolls won by the gravestone goes to the grave to be contested during/after the fight.

 

Just on side note, why is it a construction sound for looting graves and not a digging sound? Change that at the very least.

Edited by Middi
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2 hours ago, Middi said:

Suggested additions to PvP death/gravestone mechanics;

 

Upon death to an enemy player each item in the inventory of the deceased is individually auto rolled by the game and distributed between the participating enemy player/s and the gravestone. Loot rolls won by participating enemy player/s is spawned directly into their inventories and loot rolls won by the gravestone goes to the grave to be contested during/after the fight.

 

Just on side note, why is it a construction sound for looting graves and not a digging sound? Change that at the very least.

This is all fun and games till that 25kg chain barding your victim was carrying spawns in your inventory and kills your momentum because your buddies finished the target off.

This is also completely pointless as gravestones were initially meant to prevent combat looting anyway.

 

If you really want people to partially loot a kill in the middle of a fight, then give people a "loot" option besides "destroy".

Give that option a 5-10 second timer where they get a random piece of equipment from the grave.

Good if you aren't going to be able to stay around and take your time looting a grave, eg near enemy deeds.

Obviously one player max can use the "loot" option on a grave at once.

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43 minutes ago, GroeneAppel said:

If you really want people to partially loot a kill in the middle of a fight, then give people a "loot" option besides "destroy".

Give that option a 5-10 second timer where they get a random piece of equipment from the grave.

Good if you aren't going to be able to stay around and take your time looting a grave, eg near enemy deeds.

Obviously one player max can use the "loot" option on a grave at once.

I like this a lot. Give you the possibility of a fast reward after a kill even if you need to flee because your side start loosing but also will protect most of the equipment (in spacial the good one) if you just the unlucky person to die early in the fight of the wining side. Its sound like a solid compromise were a kill will be instant rewarding (or maybe not if you just get the 1kg bandage cotton :P) but also you will not suffer from a full loot on the winning side.

 

So I understand the frustrating with the quick respawn on Deeds and maybe its really put together with Raid windows to much trouble into a siege so it will not happen because its to prone to fail. (It's hard to say since no one ever tried it so fare to my knowledge to do a proper siege) But a flat out respawn timer sounds to harsh or ineffective depending on the length. So the length should scale with a debuff system similar to elemental resistance? Let's say every time you respawn you add another 15 min to the timer and every min on the debuff timer you have to wait 3 seconds to be allowed to press the respawn button. So you first death you can instantly go back for the second one well you have to stay alive 15 min if you want to go back up fast. If you run straight back you have to wait so let's say you need around 5 min for a full reequip and die again its already 30 seconds with the 3 second/min approach. The numbers are easily adjustable for balance purposes and it makes it harder and harder to commit to fights in a quick succession and just trow all your resources into the fight until you have won because the people that can rejoin the fight quickly will run out fast.

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tbh I was gonna really think it through and flesh it out before posting, but I accidently posted it before I'd even given it any thought. I rarely use forums and couldn't see a delete option so I just left to the wolves. Was just scribbling a random thought before I critiqued myself and probably just deleting it in the end closing the forums without posting **shrugs**.

 

But look PvP is terrible right now, Hota and Depot generate very small scale PvP at best or nothing at all, which is often the case. Not enough reward/risk to take a fight at any of the main deeds because of respawns and gravestones, pushing to get the loots from gravestones is not worth the risk when no matter how many you kill your still facing the same numbers as they sawn back in. The only way to win that scenario and come away with loot is to have overwhelming numbers, but then ppl cry off and stop playing because zerg. Add to this all the balancing issues and problematic mechanics and bugs, worst then terrible.

 

Basically PvP is all but dead, the odd chase at some random time to kill a one or two ppl a couple times a week at best is just plain boring. The game needs to rethink PvP in its entirety and give the pvp community something to fight over all the time. They are not going to attract and retain new players on PvP servers if there is no PvP. Think about it, 7 days in a week, 24hrs in a day and PvP server generates 1hour of engaged PvP combat a week if your lucky.

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yeah pretty crazy concept that the side that wins gets the loot..

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2 hours ago, Postes said:

yeah pretty crazy concept that the side that wins gets the loot..

Well the winning side currently get the loot in the open fields. But the gravestones are a thing for a reason, and I was really happy as returning player that they are in the game now. I remember to well the Epic fights were someone died the Corps was grabbed by the person who was Mag follower or have a res stone active and even if your side win in the end you gear is gone. Or that one person could just quick loot a lot of corpses and run if they were not the focus/the battlefield shifted slightly because you follow some enemys.

Edited by Radircs

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5 hours ago, Postes said:

yeah pretty crazy concept that the side that wins gets the loot..

yeah, but respawning and regearing 2 minutes away from a fight with full gear/barded horses is also winning? after you lost the initial fight? leaving the people that won it being full dehorsed 90% of the time and move really slow and have to walk back to any sort of safety or their own lands...? 

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Apologies, I'm kind of behind the times, and only just realized that not everything transfers between PvP and PvE servers such as Fight Skill and affinities. Is there any specific reason for that? To me, it feels like we're excluding a demographic of players who might want to PvP part-time or come over to try to gain more affinities. I personally don't really care if someone wants to spend their time on a PvE server grinding safely for weapon, shield, and fight skill because anyone could do that. I think it's probably more of a turn-off for someone to do all that work on a PvE server, portal over, and realize they need to get 70 FS all again. 

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Not sure when the team will realize it, but not having any sort of economy is going to kill Defiance. There is some serious thought process issues by our team im sorry to say, but seriously without an economy and without something to play for there is really nothing to do. Hota by itself isnt the answer, making items easier to imp helps a lot but again isnt the answer, depot is nice but shouldnt be like hota where it spawns and someone wins for getting there first with a bigger group... There is a decent idea i think which every village VILLAGE gets a Depot of items which when protected from the enemy starts to spawn better items. This is just a quick 5 second idea with very little effort but to be honest it would give people are reason to visit every village in game and fight to gain something... The loot gained by attacker should be if they are able to deplete the depot which might have something like a longer timer IDK. On the defender side the more defense against enemy presence increases its loot table that is only removable once every X days. 

 

Im pretty sure there could be much much much better ideas behind pretty much everything we currently have to play with. This server is already dying and its a shame.  I believe the team missed out on one of the best opportunities that was needed at the launch of this server, but perhaps now to late. Sad that we will be seeing 40 max players at one given time here soon enough. 

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7 hours ago, Postes said:

Apologies, I'm kind of behind the times, and only just realized that not everything transfers between PvP and PvE servers such as Fight Skill and affinities. Is there any specific reason for that? To me, it feels like we're excluding a demographic of players who might want to PvP part-time or come over to try to gain more affinities. I personally don't really care if someone wants to spend their time on a PvE server grinding safely for weapon, shield, and fight skill because anyone could do that. I think it's probably more of a turn-off for someone to do all that work on a PvE server, portal over, and realize they need to get 70 FS all again. 



the fact that weaponskill, shield skill and all the other skills transfers over renders the entire point of keeping fightskill seperate moot unfortunately. you can hit 70fs in just a handful of hunting trips

i personally dislike that people on pvp can swap over to pve to grind, but since the only important skill that doesn't transfer is FS the system has already failed, as FS is hilariously the easiest to hit 70 with

at least, for now- in a couple of months/years when the server is down to 10 people like chaos i suppose having 90+ fs will be important

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9 hours ago, RainRain said:



the fact that weaponskill, shield skill and all the other skills transfers over renders the entire point of keeping fightskill seperate moot unfortunately. you can hit 70fs in just a handful of hunting trips

i personally dislike that people on pvp can swap over to pve to grind, but since the only important skill that doesn't transfer is FS the system has already failed, as FS is hilariously the easiest to hit 70 with

at least, for now- in a couple of months/years when the server is down to 10 people like chaos i suppose having 90+ fs will be important

You miss out on a lot of sleep powder if you hunt on freedom though, so I think it's fine now.

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On 12/13/2020 at 6:18 AM, RainRain said:



the fact that weaponskill, shield skill and all the other skills transfers over renders the entire point of keeping fightskill seperate moot unfortunately. you can hit 70fs in just a handful of hunting trips

i personally dislike that people on pvp can swap over to pve to grind, but since the only important skill that doesn't transfer is FS the system has already failed, as FS is hilariously the easiest to hit 70 with

at least, for now- in a couple of months/years when the server is down to 10 people like chaos i suppose having 90+ fs will be important

Hunting is superior on Defiance, far more creatures and you get sleep powder occasionly. People hunting on Freedom have no clue what they are missing. The problem here is as you said, people grind on freedom and have their skills/tools/gear there. Why rebuild on Defiance? Portals are to blame here, they should never have been the main linking method.

 

On 12/13/2020 at 5:09 AM, MaurizioAM said:

Not sure when the team will realize it, but not having any sort of economy is going to kill Defiance. There is some serious thought process issues by our team im sorry to say, but seriously without an economy and without something to play for there is really nothing to do. Hota by itself isnt the answer, making items easier to imp helps a lot but again isnt the answer, depot is nice but shouldnt be like hota where it spawns and someone wins for getting there first with a bigger group... There is a decent idea i think which every village VILLAGE gets a Depot of items which when protected from the enemy starts to spawn better items. This is just a quick 5 second idea with very little effort but to be honest it would give people are reason to visit every village in game and fight to gain something... The loot gained by attacker should be if they are able to deplete the depot which might have something like a longer timer IDK. On the defender side the more defense against enemy presence increases its loot table that is only removable once every X days. 

 

Im pretty sure there could be much much much better ideas behind pretty much everything we currently have to play with. This server is already dying and its a shame.  I believe the team missed out on one of the best opportunities that was needed at the launch of this server, but perhaps now to late. Sad that we will be seeing 40 max players at one given time here soon enough. 

I agree with this. There is no economy on Defiance whatsoever. Of course the overall playstyle differs, and gear is shared within a kingdom/allliance.

However even outside that an economy should exist. I think this is largely due to the fact that there are no real homelands for the kingdoms. It's nothing like Epic was, where you had many "carebears" playing on the homeservers. Those "carebears" kept the economy going and helped the servers stay alive. Not to mention those same "carebears" actually got to try pvp on occasion since they had the means and opportunity to do so.

 

The use of portals again is to blame here, as is the lack of proper homelands. The starter islands are absolutely useless here.

 

On a different note: I feel that the early towerrush also hurt the initial population. Not being able to deed on starter because there was no tower early on was dumb as hell and absolutely not thought out.

Coupled with people not even being able to spawn on Defiance from the get go helped put the final nail in the coffin before the server even started.

There's a serious lack of fresh blood on Defiance and it's a massive pity.

 

The only solution I see for now is to link Defiance to freedom and to straight up remove the portals. Yes this will anger people who like to hop over to no tomorrow, but it will help the overall health of Defiance as curious Pve'ers might actually be inclined to visit Defiance. Even if just for a hunting trip; due to the promise of sleep powder drops. It would also link the economy of Freedom and Defiance and give Defiance an actual economy to boot. The benefits gained would be huge.

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10 hours ago, GroeneAppel said:

The only solution I see for now is to link Defiance to freedom and to straight up remove the portals. Yes this will anger people who like to hop over to no tomorrow, but it will help the overall health of Defiance as curious Pve'ers might actually be inclined to visit Defiance. Even if just for a hunting trip; due to the promise of sleep powder drops. It would also link the economy of Freedom and Defiance and give Defiance an actual economy to boot. The benefits gained would be huge.

 

while I agree with everything you said, if they added a border link I honestly couldn't wait to transfer over with my 30kg of moon metal and 12 rare bones and 2 supreme bones from treasure chests, would be a real delight for me, erm I mean, the market

 

just wait for another 3 weeks to pass by when people who were smart and meditated start hitting level 11 pok on pve side, defiance is going to go from being nearly dead to completely dead. 25% pok stacking with vyn and everything else > some "good hunting" with "occasional sleep powders"

 

 

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gonna echo something from discord

1. turn hota into something like my suggestion
the tl;dr: When hota starts, a temporary map (that changes each hota) is used. Very small map. Battlecamps spawn everywhere and only hostile mobs spawn (could use rift/jackal mobs too as well as valrei mobs). You can't deed here, you can't build here. Some horses will spawn around but it should be scarce. You can't bring any creature into this map, and you can access the hota through a portal at starter towns/portals that spawn all over the map.

Otherwise it works the same as hota now: battlecamps spawn, you capture them and they spawn guards that attack enemies. First to capture 4 wins. After someone wins, the statue for the winners spawns in the starter village for them under ownership of the final person to capture a camp + all the loot in it. After 1 hour of someone winning, the server resets and boots all players off of it back to their respective starter villages (players can also leave via portals inside the world). Bam, that's hota.

2. remove all pvp/pve portals, and make it so the only ones that exist are the ones in starter villages.

This way you don't need to do anything complex like linking servers via sailing, players still get the option whether to go to pvp/pve to grind, but pvp players cant infinite grind on pve and only pop over for pvp- plus as people will be travelling between their starter towns and villages it might open up pvp situations where enemies could go deep into territory and pull risky plays

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