phennexion

Sooo... What is Wurm doing now?

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5 hours ago, gnomegates said:

 

There are plenty of things for people to group up for, these things may not be active on the new servers yet because of them still being.....new. But there are many uniques, from drakes and dragons to the kyclops, goblin leader, troll king and such. There are also rifts. So there are plenty of "combat" related things that are typically considered end game for wurm. If you want pure pve non combat end game content, then I suppose that would be up to you. Your options are limitless. From deed building and expansion to skill training. As others have said, this is a sandbox, there is no, and in my opinion, there should be no end game. The game ends when your done with everything you wish to do, or you try to log in and the game is shut down. At that point, its game over.

 

With your expert advice, looks at how well Wurm is dying again two months after new cluster release. Same story over and over again. Because all that works so well right? No one needs anything else *rolls eyes*.

 

I've been playing this game on and off for 13 years, I've seen this same endless cycle over and over. Jackal was our glimmer of hope that Wurm dev team is actually considering doing more for us on the PvE end. 

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2 hours ago, phennexion said:

 

With your expert advice, looks at how well Wurm is dying again two months after new cluster release. Same story over and over again. Because all that works so well right? No one needs anything else *rolls eyes*.

 

I've been playing this game on and off for 13 years, I've seen this same endless cycle over and over. Jackal was our glimmer of hope that Wurm dev team is actually considering doing more for us on the PvE end. 

 

My response was to you saying that wurm has NO end game content. It has nothing to do with how well wurm is or is not doing, nor do I state anywhere that more should not be added or changed so you can keep rolling your eyes while assuming things and not taking what was said for what it is. Just pointing out that you comparing things to minecraft and stating that there is nothing for groups to do in PvE is shortsighted and plain wrong. You brought up dragons as if wurm does not have the same or more. There are 14 different uniques. But since you want to be the expert and and you have 13 years of experience, you must know best for all of us. Anyway, I'm done here, enjoy the game.

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8 hours ago, phennexion said:

 

With your expert advice, looks at how well Wurm is dying again two months after new cluster release. Same story over and over again. Because all that works so well right? No one needs anything else *rolls eyes*.

 

I've been playing this game on and off for 13 years, I've seen this same endless cycle over and over. Jackal was our glimmer of hope that Wurm dev team is actually considering doing more for us on the PvE end. 

Sorry, but not a single one of the new Cluster even reached End-Game Stage...

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Stuff's happening?  Meh /me gets back to swinging the pickaxe.

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They are just trying to keep the money coming right now. Without Tich don't expect anything amazing.

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On 9/24/2020 at 12:15 AM, Eleraan said:

Forget new content what about fixing what they recently broke? IE Channeling with priests?  Still salty about the nerf in response to exploits that apparently weren't being exploited with the promise they were going to address it "soon"

Well regarding exploits I think it is SAD!! that you call it "Exploits"....In older times those occurencies would be referred to as a GAME FEATURE...It would be fixed but no retribution...!!!...

Not Sure why GM's are getting this harsh these days.....should say that I have not found any of these socalled "Exploits"...just want to vent that this really isnt the old COSY Wurm that it used to be... :( :( :( 

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Still waiting on the developer road map that was supposed to come last week.

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They were off playing some other game watching their money roll in and they were like "OH ######, They caught on, lets abate them with some "catching up" post and make some quick favor changes...ok we're good for another couple months".

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Fast forward, still nothing from Devs/Game Chest.. meanwhile they're still not investing in new content. Just spamming ads on MMORPG.com

 

Perhaps we should agree to all not renew our prem until they release some new content they outlined in the roadmap?

Edited by phennexion

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5 hours ago, phennexion said:

Fast forward, still nothing from Devs/Game Chest.. meanwhile they're still not investing in new content. Just spamming ads on MMORPG.com

 

Perhaps we should agree to all not renew our prem until they release some new content they outlined in the roadmap?

 

Pretty toxic...

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2 minutes ago, Kierkegaard said:

 

 

Pretty toxic...

Hardly. He voiced concerns calmly and simply suggested we as consumers do the smart thing, and show disapproval through our wallets. While we might not be there yet ourselves, based on the steep decline of active players in the last months, I'd say other people are certainly unhappy with things right now. Further promotion for the game really should not have started until they gave more updates to the game along with more concrete information about the future, otherwise new and returning players will come to see that nothing has really changed and leave.

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Logged in earlier just to tend to some things and the only chatter I caught (in the language bound help channel) was about how people quit left and right and deed populations shrink and the remaining people don't get together cause they do not want to give up the deeds they worked on, also how the one or other person quit due burnout of wurm as they ended up having to care for a deed on their own.

 

tbh I was quite surprised to be that lucky to logon to such a moment, then again it shows how things go, they all seemed like new steam players that were surprised by this turn of events.

 

Non the less, Player retention is still bad, unless the game manages to tickle someone the right way, people quit pretty fast again.

And if they hang around, there is a huge risk of them running into burnout problems.

 

With no real "goal" of what to grind or gear up for, it is rough to justify the huge time sink the game can be.

Yey you grinded Weapon Smithing to 90+ in a matter of Months (or less if you fancy your burnout playstyle), now you got a nice weapon.... add another few mounths of mindless slaugther of roaming mobs.... and then for what? The odd unique hunts or rifts that have nothing special or exciting to them either?

 

Wurm is just not a game for the masses as is, calling it a niché game would be a understatement as well.

 

Personally I like the game, but after 2 Months I feel the burn, I always get excitied when I start playing again, sub for an entire year but go back to other games after 2-3 months.

This time my break off point was the moment I got into a stable situation and every bit of "survival" the game has died down into skill grind.

 

I honestly wish I was able to play it more, alone for the money I threw at it, but without a greater goal to chase after or more "survival" to struggle with than just my carpal tunnel hating the repetative movement to grind skills there is not much out there.

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5 hours ago, Jore said:

Hardly. He voiced concerns calmly and simply suggested we as consumers do the smart thing, and show disapproval through our wallets. While we might not be there yet ourselves, based on the steep decline of active players in the last months, I'd say other people are certainly unhappy with things right now. Further promotion for the game really should not have started until they gave more updates to the game along with more concrete information about the future, otherwise new and returning players will come to see that nothing has really changed and leave.

 

11 hours ago, phennexion said:

Fast forward, still nothing from Devs/Game Chest.. meanwhile they're still not investing in new content. Just spamming ads on MMORPG.com

 

Perhaps we should agree to all not renew our prem until they release some new content they outlined in the roadmap?

Lol at the people that try to bend the dev´s will with their wallets. 

 

Like just stop playing if you dont like it. The amount of whales i met so far in the game trying to steer everything with their wallets is mindblowing.

 

Just let the dev´s do their job. If you dont like it quit the game. Dont try to form a mob just because you dont get them to do you what you want. 

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15 minutes ago, goemo said:

Lol at the people that try to bend the dev´s will with their wallets. 

 

Thing is, it's kinda how the customer <> business relationship works in the end. If you don't like a product or where it's going, the customer voices his/her displeasure with his wallet.

 

When that displeasure is multiplied by hundreds and thousand of customers (scaled to its total base) then the business really needs to evaluate what it's doing wrong.


In this case, it's the lack of any significant updates to Wurm. The lack of communication. Some of us have been playing this game for a decade and the lack of updates in some departments is nothing short of disastruous. Broken game mechanics for years that would take a couple of full time devs weeks if not days to fix and / or balance out. If we'd make a list of all the broken things in Wurm, the major bugs and imbalanced mechanics/ broken mechanics, we'd get a list that would be depressing to see.

 

Make a good product = people buy it.

Sell a broken product to a lot of people ? Don't be surprised at the amount of negative criticism leveled at it.

 

While I agree Wurm needs ads, it also needs a parralel effort on fixing content first, then adding content afterwards. No half measures.

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4 minutes ago, elentari said:

 

Thing is, it's kinda how the customer <> business relationship works in the end. If you don't like a product or where it's going, the customer voices his/her displeasure with his wallet.

 

When that displeasure is multiplied by hundreds and thousand of customers (scaled to its total base) then the business really needs to evaluate what it's doing wrong.


In this case, it's the lack of any significant updates to Wurm. The lack of communication. Some of us have been playing this game for a decade and the lack of updates in some departments is nothing short of disastruous. Broken game mechanics for years that would take a couple of full time devs weeks if not days to fix and / or balance out. If we'd make a list of all the broken things in Wurm, the major bugs and imbalanced mechanics/ broken mechanics, we'd get a list that would be depressing to see.

 

Make a good product = people buy it.

Sell a broken product to a lot of people ? Don't be surprised at the amount of negative criticism leveled at it.

 

While I agree Wurm needs ads, it also needs a parralel effort on fixing content first, then adding content afterwards. No half measures.

Look what you say makes sense.

 

Issue is the other person was like "do what i want or i try to get everyone to close their wallet". If your unhappy.. of course stop playing. But dont try to form a bandwagon because it doesnt go your way.

 

Like i had people ingame haveing huge meltdowns at me or getting mad because i didnt want to sell them something they wanted just because they offered a crazy price. Like they think they OWN people that dont spend big amounts of cash on this game. 

 

I had people getting angry at me because i didnt sell my weapon in the middle of a rift to a person that wanted it for said rift. This game attracts far to many of these entiteled people. 

 

If you dont like something quit it. But dont go and try to threaten dev´s with such BS. All iam saying.

Edited by goemo

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18 minutes ago, goemo said:

 

Lol at the people that try to bend the dev´s will with their wallets. 

 

Like just stop playing if you dont like it. The amount of whales i met so far in the game trying to steer everything with their wallets is mindblowing.

 

Just let the dev´s do their job. If you dont like it quit the game. Dont try to form a mob just because you dont get them to do you what you want. 

Well I guess the problem for most people is it look like the Dvs don't do ther job. I know this is probably wrong but if you look at the time line since the steam release it is really quiet. We get a few new servers, the server hosting migrated, and we get a favor change and they tweek the spawn algorithm? What else? Rifts I will not count since its basically "old" content that should be copy and paste + minor tweeks.

I will not say there are no development, but currently we don't know what the plan beside the combat update is. And the combat update was already pre Steam lunch in the working and they even say that they were thinking about delaying the lunch until its ready (sound like its quite fare in the making?)

 

I know that more people not mean faster developing (The Mythical Man-Month :) )in spacial in the first 6 months were people need to get knowledge of the codebase and working process together with Covid home office its probably not the best time to efficiently working people in. But still, we have a lot of bugs open. Defiance still don't spawn sea creatures is something that bothers me for mission hunting like crazy in the last month (well not the last week my PC is down and I wait for parts :( ) and over all the radio silence for a real roadmap to see what is even the plan with the game. I think most people are quite verbal about this because it feels like with the current direction the game will go stale. Not dying the are to many whales that are enough to keep the servers running but probably not enough to get new content in a good rate to keep the game fresh and interesting in the current market.

 

My Prem will run out March this is the time frame I give the game to give news about waht the next goals are otherwise I am not sure if I will renew it in the current situation since PvP have to many issues to keep me interssted (I realy hope combat update fix a few of this things and I will have a reason to play at lest another 6 month ).

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9 hours ago, Jore said:

Hardly. He voiced concerns calmly and simply suggested we as consumers do the smart thing, and show disapproval through our wallets. While we might not be there yet ourselves, based on the steep decline of active players in the last months, I'd say other people are certainly unhappy with things right now. Further promotion for the game really should not have started until they gave more updates to the game along with more concrete information about the future, otherwise new and returning players will come to see that nothing has really changed and leave.

 

  • It is toxic because it is not constructive.

 

 

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So what are you doing different this time around to keep the players? We haven't had any announcements of bigger better features or content, just bugfixes.

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meanwhile they're still not investing in new content

  • Both claims are baseless without facts unless they have company audit records on financial tracking. Making these types of claims is not constructive.
  • It is also an inaccurate claim. Oct 2020 - Dev's announce road map with long-term objectives, content, and better features. This stuff isn't built over night. It requires: time, resources and funding. Advertising drives new players and generates funding. It's business 101.

 

 

 

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With your expert advice, looks at how well Wurm is dying again two months after new cluster release. Same story over and over again

Quote

had a huge influx of players in the past couple months, we're are seeing standard Wurm new server attrition

  • This is 100% normal and happens with nearly every video game, especially online games. Here's an academic paper that supports my counterpoint, Statistical Analysis of Gamer Behavior. Again, op's post is not constructive. Complaining about attribution when it happens with nearly every game is like complaining about gravity in real life and then being mad when the dev's do not fix real life gravity. Its not helpful. By the way, if you can solve player count attribution, I would imagine you'd get hired to work at any gaming company.

 

If you want to make a constructive critique, I would recommend making points based off information and facts. Stating your opinion without supporting evidence is not helpful. Making incorrect claims is a great way to lose credibility and for your points to be ignored. The more I think about it the more it is clear op's comments/post are not constructive feedback. This thread should be locked.

Edited by Kierkegaard
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maybe consider that not everyone is trying to put out a peer reviewed essay when stating their opinion on a game and are not intending to invite a debate that includes academic papers that neither you or anyone else has actually read in depth

criticism can still be constructive without being absolute, and relative evidence (comparing population sizes of the game to it's old population) is still valid

 

though neither really matters since then we start talking about what makes the game "dead" and some boomers will anchor down and tell themselves that servers with 100 players online concurrently isn't dead (and then, you consider that only one server on SFI even regularly breaches 100 and that most are 1/3 or even 1/4th of that)

matter is this game isn't "dying"- it has been dead for months now. it was "dying" in september. Wurm experiences a much more abnormal loss of playercount from advertising and population surges than other games do; part of this is because of its niche, but really most of it is because of piss poor management and development

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While Samool did post a roadmap, at the moment we have zero reference points where we are in that roadmap.

 

When is the ”big" pvp update gonna happen? When are those random encounters going to be implemented?  My issue is the utter lack of any calendar or at least an approximation like "summer" or "spring". For that reason , I feel we still don't have any roadmap at all if we don't follow it.

 

Mind you, Samool's post was in October. It's been 4 months already, 1/3 of a year.

Edited by elentari
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14 minutes ago, RainRain said:

maybe consider that not everyone is trying to put out a peer reviewed essay when stating their opinion on a game and are not intending to invite a debate that includes academic papers that neither you or anyone else has actually read in depth

criticism can still be constructive without being absolute, and relative evidence (comparing population sizes of the game to it's old population) is still valid

 

though neither really matters since then we start talking about what makes the game "dead" and some boomers will anchor down and tell themselves that servers with 100 players online concurrently isn't dead (and then, you consider that only one server on SFI even regularly breaches 100 and that most are 1/3 or even 1/4th of that)

matter is this game isn't "dying"- it has been dead for months now. it was "dying" in september. Wurm experiences a much more abnormal loss of playercount from advertising and population surges than other games do; part of this is because of its niche, but really most of it is because of piss poor management and development

 

Thank you about the peer reviewed comment. I've never heard someone complain about factual information before. You put a smile on my face.

 

Besides your derogatory agism comment, which is pretty toxic, you make a fair point about advertising and niche content. Is mmorpg the right platform for mass advertising? Maybe mmorpg has a developer advertising option to target only certain audiences. Perhaps there are better sites or methods that are better suited towards Wurm's target group.

Edited by Kierkegaard

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or how about before we look at bringing in new players (that will be bled out immediately afterwards) we look at structural changes within the staff team like, i don't know, maybe actually hiring a full-time developer to code on the game instead of taking mostly volunteer work and part time paid work? or properly coordinating updates, announcing monthly focuses and intentions instead of hiding behind vague promises and "it'll be better"'s, though i suppose those just mostly serve as a scapegoat for when the dev team can't follow up on something (such as valrei missions supposed to have been changed for defiance to encourage pvp rather than having the allotment we currently have, or imbuements taking 6 months to implement a change that's literally just changing a formula for a few)

also yes i'm a pretty toxic person thank you for acknowledging it

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Back on topic.

 

I've been around wurm for 14 years, and have been through the motions. To me, this all feels like game chest keeps trying to milk the game for money without having to invest much back in. The reason we're not getting roadmap updates is because there are none, if there are any, it's probably 1 guy doing most of the work himself. I'm sure if the dev team was excited for new features they were making, they'd send previews to Retro to engage the community with and keep us excited. Alot like they did with bridges, new GUI, and most other new wurm features. Samool posted about hiring more devs a while ago - we didn't hear anything after that either.

 

LIke RainRain said - it's been dead for months now. The fanbois who think 100 people servers and "niche" is fine - are just lying to themselves. We all want to play the Wurm Online we imagine the game could be. Wurm has so much potential even in this era, the only things holding it back are it's legacy codebase and it's leadership's investment in further development. Perhaps custom dev on Wurm Unlimited will be the real future of Wurm, like SWG Legends and all the added content the devs of Legends have added to base SWG game.

Edited by neopherus
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36 minutes ago, phennexion said:

I've been around wurm for 14 years, and have been through the motions. To me, this all feels like game chest keeps trying to milk the game for money without having to invest much back in. The reason we're not getting roadmap updates is because there are none, if there are any, it's probably 1 guy doing most of the work himself. I'm sure if the dev team was excited for new features they were making, they'd send previews to Retro to engage the community with and keep us excited. Alot like they did with bridges, new GUI, and most other new wurm features. Samool posted about hiring more devs a while ago - we didn't hear anything after that either.

 

LIke RainRain said - it's been dead for months now. The fanbois who think 100 people servers and "niche" is fine - are just lying to themselves. We all want to play the Wurm Online we imagine the game could be. Wurm has so much potential even in this era, the only things holding it back are it's legacy codebase and it's leadership's investment in further development. Perhaps custom dev on Wurm Unlimited will be the real future of Wurm, like SWG Legends and all the added content the devs of Legends have added to base SWG game.

I wondered if there was another place where the staff might be more active and where they might be giving more updates and such.  There is!

Wurm Discord - I saw that Retro and some of the other staff members seem to be much more active over there.  I saw some new messages from a staff member who was fixing issues in the game and giving updates and there are also sections where people can promote their twitch streams and such.

I never use discord really but I guess maybe discord is the place to go if you want to ask questions to the staff and get real time updates.....The forums are maybe more left behind....

Discord also seems quite active.  The forums can sometimes feel quite dead.  I know that discord is the "New" place to go for games and such so maybe that is why they might use it more....

Edited by Zexos
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  Wurm has and always will be a niche game anyone thinking that there is some sort of magic the Dev's can do to pull in , retain players with some fancy GUI , bug fix , game mechanic or any number of things wurmians have blamed the Dev's for not "fixing" or changing over years is just wishful thinking. Gamers are a fickle bunch either you like Wurm or you don't. Either you play long term or you don't. IMO like WU wurm as it is now is mostly feature complete! 

If today they stopped all updates, I would still play. This constant blaming the Dev's is just BS. Maybe it's the players that are the fault of people leaving the game. Maybe the players could do more in game to help retain the new players. Or maybe Wurm is ok and will be around for many more years.  Just google " Wurm is Dead" and start reading any post dating back to 2010...... 

Edited by BoarHead
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18 hours ago, phennexion said:

Perhaps we should agree to all not renew our prem until they release some new content they outlined in the roadmap?

 

Maybe you're a someone coming back after a long hiatus away, but good lord please no. There's about as many people sick of half baked ideas and concepts, and then the half baked updates that come from it. Just be patient and see if they actually provide a good update with the next big one. If they do? Thank god, we don't have another system or update that isn't going to need heavy tweaking for ages, just for it to get dropped quickly because ???. And if it's a crap update, go nuts.

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