Darnok

Balance of religions for PvE followers

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Alignment first. The fact that you have to do specific, often unnecessary work, to get 0.5 is quite burdensome, maybe it is worth changing this system to one where we get alignment for any activity (not breaking the rules of a given religion), but randomly, much more often than inspiration of course.

Activities that negatively affect alignment may remain unchanged.

 

Fo

- eating raw fruit will accelerate the regeneration of health and stamina and fill the bar of water and nutrition (not to 100% of course).

- all actions in the Nature (forestry, forage, botanizing, harvesting...), Cooking (except Butchering) and Animal taming takes 25% less time while give the same skill gain.

- gets an extra sprout from trees, as well as an extra fruit using forestry (yes on 26+ level of forestry 3 harvestable items instead of normal 2) and clay from digging action at cost of favor for each action.

- can create and improve wooden weapons: bows, arrows, polearms and wooden shields 10% faster (action takes less time) and higher (add +5 to his skill cap when improving) than the others on same level with same tools.

- also gains 10% more skill gain from using these weapons and shields and the bows in his hands has 2 tile more range.

- has Faith Armor which provides 5% additional damage reduction (if not wearing metal armor) at cost of favor for each hit he takes.

- is immune to poisons and takes no damage by passing through thorns.

- can lead one animal without a rope, if it has 4 ropes, can lead max 5 animals.

 

Disadvantages:

- mining takes 15% longer with normal skill gain.

- cap ore -5ql of character mining skill.

- metal weapons and armors receive 5% more damage when used.

 

Vynora

- can apply on others or self bandages and healing covers 20% easier and are 20% more effective than normal when applied.

- can process any raw materials in half products like stone shard -> brick, hide -> leather etc 30% faster and failure does not use up the material at cost of favor.

- all actions in Ropemaking, Cloth tailoring, Fine Carpentry, Ship building, Pottery and Archaeology takes 20% less time while give same skill gain.

- repairing any structure is 15% faster.

- can create and improve one handed weapons and metal shields 10% faster and +5 above skill cap.

- gains 10% faster skill gain while using one handed weapons and metal shields.

- has a 2.5% bonus damage reduction when wearing alloy armor at the cost of favor for each hit received.

- can push or pull twice as fast.

- while riding a horse, driving a cart or a ship, it can move +1km/h faster than others.

 

Disadvantages:

- harvesting and farming actions takes 15% longer.

- butchering takes 15% longer and it produce less parts.

- eating raw meat or drinking unboiled water causes disease that slows skill gain by 10% for an hour.

 

Magranon

- 10% more health and stamina.

- the pickaxe in the hands of a follower acts as if it has a stonestrike at cost of favor.

- one mining action gives you twice as many stone shards or metal ore at the cost of favor.

- all actions in  Masonry, Mining, Coal-making and Jewelry smithing takes 20% less time while give same skill gain.

- can create and improve two handed metal weapons 10% faster and +5 above skill cap.

- gains 10% faster skill gain while using two handed metal weapons.

- at cost of favor can deal extremely strong hits.

- by analyzing the rocks in the mine, can locate the deposit 2 times further away than others.

- +1 Offensive CR.

 

Disadvantages:

- limit logs -5ql of character woodcutting skill.

- woodcutting take 15% longer.

- on 26 level forestry still can harvest only 1 item.

- wooden weapons, shields, any armor receive 5% more damage when used.

 

Libila
- regenerates health and stamina by eating raw meat, humanoid meat gives twice higher results.

- all actions in Religion, Alchemy, Natural Substances, Thievery, Butchering, Leatherworking takes 20% less time while same skill gain.

- gets extra log from chopping trees.

- all traps made by follower make 20% more damage.

- can butcher human corpses without alignment penalty.

- dual wielding offhand weapon gives 75% parry rate of used weapon and same attack speed as if that weapon would be used in main hand.

- also while dual wielding 10% skill gain for used weapons.

- provides 1 second faster attack rate for all melee weapons (except polearms) when on foot at cost of favor.

- moves 1km/h faster on foot.

- +1 Offensive CR

 

Disadvantages:

- digging and cooking takes 15% longer.

- limit clay -5ql digging skill.

- limit hot food -5ql of character skill.

- animals are to be more difficult to tame.

- moves 1km/h slower on horses, carts and ships. (or 3-5% slower instead of fixed value)

- every armor has 2.5% less damage reduction.

 

 

 

 

 

Edited by Darnok

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1 hour ago, Darnok said:

no damage by passing through thorns.

35faith - this already exists.

 

1 hour ago, Darnok said:

- has Faith Armor which provides 5% additional damage reduction (if not wearing metal armor) at cost of favor for each hit he takes.

oakshell - 70% i think with no armor?

1 hour ago, Darnok said:

extra log from chopping trees

the lore behind Fo is being a tree hugging hippy not getting rewarded for chopping them down.

 

Overall im happy with the system the way it is and don't see any reason to change it. 

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when a dude suggests that FO priests get extra log chopping a tree when they cant cut trees to start with you realise its another meme suggestion post and you stop reading...

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36 minutes ago, Skatyna said:

when a dude suggests that FO priests get extra log chopping a tree when they cant cut trees to start with you realise its another meme suggestion post and you stop reading...

 

That is for followers and can be changed into any other extra resource. Numbers are too only example, but with advantage/disadvantage system I think they could be close to values I posted.

Edited by Darnok

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4 minutes ago, Darnok said:

 

That is for followers.

Does not say Follower anywhere, everyone reading that thinks this whole thing is for Priests.

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Can you please explain to me since you joined game August 16 and havnt played long.

Why you sit in forum and come up with one suggestion after the other?

Dont you think it would be better to play the game first, and figure out how it works, before you come with all these changes ?

 

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It's like you're a priest of some unlisted god that gives you favor each time you make terrible suggestions on the forums.

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Ok I get what you want, I understand that the Religion and Follower system could use a bit of love and reworking to give it more depth. But well this is something you can't just change a bit around without braking a lot of balance that is already a problem.
"Yeah but I say PVE" well sure the devs have time to work extra for 2 different religion systems.... Its already a problem that different Servers have a lot of different rule sets what is probably not really welcome in some regards. But this would probably cost a lot of effort to get in for a small benefit (minor effect on play behavior)

I know that players are bad with game design for the games they play and your suggestions I have seen in the last days are a perfect example of this. You find a point in the game where you see something the game currently isent or not providing what you would like and think in 5 min of a broad idea to change it so this doesn´t bother you anymore. This game is 13 years old legacy code in some form. Every change to systems have a huge risk in breaking stuff you don't even have known that they are related probably. On top a new system have to be integrated and interact with this old stuff. So befor you make a another suggestion that is more a quick  through ask you following questions:

- What benefit I want to generate with this change? A good suggestion should archive something to give the game more depths (not complexity for complexity sake more like another layer of good player interaction) or make the game better excusable.

- Is this suggestion in scope and them of the game? Well now that I think about is I would like to have some laser weapons in this game and a full-blown 10k people PVP events where this would make the game so much better trust me!!111!!

- is it something that can be done in a reasonable timeframe? Even if we are not programmers we can draw conclusions about systems by observations. So we should think with our suggestions on something that is feasible and can piggyback an already used system.

A lot of your suggestions don't really give the feel you have not think long about them or what would be a benefit for the game. This one I have to say is one of the better ones even if it it's a bit bad communicated in some form (this is for followers not for priests for example is not something you get out of this post).

+1 For the revision of the Religion and follower system in general (use of Favor on followers, some negative on top of positive so atheism is a "real" option as neutral player)

- 1 for this specific suggestions since they look in the current low impact religion should have for a follower way to strong.

 

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1 hour ago, Maiya said:

Can you please explain to me since you joined game August 16 and havnt played long.

Why you sit in forum and come up with one suggestion after the other?

Dont you think it would be better to play the game first, and figure out how it works, before you come with all these changes ?

 

 

Game is still in beta stage of development, so it is good to suggest new things.

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41 minutes ago, Sovos said:

It's like you're a priest of some unlisted god that gives you favor each time you make terrible suggestions on the forums.

 

If you knew in how many forums many players were against my ideas, and a few months later it turned out that the update has implemented my suggestion and they love it.

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5 minutes ago, Darnok said:

 

Game is still in beta stage of development, so it is good to suggest new things.

 

No... it is not... it left Beta Years ago.

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22 minutes ago, Radircs said:

Ok I get what you want, I understand that the Religion and Follower system could use a bit of love and reworking to give it more depth. But well this is something you can't just change a bit around without braking a lot of balance that is already a problem.
"Yeah but I say PVE" well sure the devs have time to work extra for 2 different religion systems.... Its already a problem that different Servers have a lot of different rule sets what is probably not really welcome in some regards. But this would probably cost a lot of effort to get in for a small benefit (minor effect on play behavior)

 

 

For PvP, these changes probably wouldn't hurt either.

 

22 minutes ago, Radircs said:



I know that players are bad with game design for the games they play and your suggestions I have seen in the last days are a perfect example of this. You find a point in the game where you see something the game currently isent or not providing what you would like and think in 5 min of a broad idea to change it so this doesn´t bother you anymore. This game is 13 years old legacy code in some form. Every change to systems have a huge risk in breaking stuff you don't even have known that they are related probably. On top a new system have to be integrated and interact with this old stuff. So befor you make a another suggestion that is more a quick  through ask you following questions:

 

 

I may not be an expert, but it seems that designing systems this way is an example of bad design?

 

 

22 minutes ago, Radircs said:


- What benefit I want to generate with this change? A good suggestion should archive something to give the game more depths (not complexity for complexity sake more like another layer of good player interaction) or make the game better excusable.

 

 

Balance. This game has no depth. Improving is a matter of pressing two buttons if you've properly configured the UI, and it looks the same in every branch in carpentry, masonry, smithing, pottery, leatherworking... Where do you see the depth here? Players price the items they craft because they have a conversion rate to Euro, not because this system gives items any value. The actions in the game are so boring that people run a few clients to stay away from watching the bar move.

 

22 minutes ago, Radircs said:


- Is this suggestion in scope and them of the game? Well now that I think about is I would like to have some laser weapons in this game and a full-blown 10k people PVP events where this would make the game so much better trust me!!111!!

 

 

I am not proposing anything new, just a balance of something that already exists. And the fact that it's not unbalanced, probably everyone can confirm? Although I am curious about the official figures how many followers of each religion there are on Har, Mel and Cad.

 

22 minutes ago, Radircs said:


- is it something that can be done in a reasonable timeframe? Even if we are not programmers we can draw conclusions about systems by observations. So we should think with our suggestions on something that is feasible and can piggyback an already used system.

 

This is a job developers must do, I haven't seen the code of the game, so how do I rate it?

 

22 minutes ago, Radircs said:


A lot of your suggestions don't really give the feel you have not think long about them or what would be a benefit for the game. This one I have to say is one of the better ones even if it it's a bit bad communicated in some form (this is for followers not for priests for example is not something you get out of this post).

 

I proposed a division of characters according to their religion, which would slightly diversify the roles players play.

 

22 minutes ago, Radircs said:


+1 For the revision of the Religion and follower system in general (use of Favor on followers, some negative on top of positive so atheism is a "real" option as neutral player)

- 1 for this specific suggestions since they look in the current low impact religion should have for a follower way to strong.

 

 

And they should be stronger. You can change religion if you get bored with one style of play and you want to try another and advance faster in this new style. The point is that the player feels the difference after the change, not only by observing logs and wow now I get 0.02 more skills. If religions don't have to change much, what's the point of this system, better remove it altogether and simplify the game.

 

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14 minutes ago, Caduryn said:

 

No... it is not... it left Beta Years ago.

 

Funnily enough, I noticed a UI change not that long ago that introduced a basic feature - buttons for special moves. Since when special moves are in game?

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Just now, Darnok said:

Since when special moves are in game?

They're still pretty new, only been in for a decade or so.

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25 minutes ago, Darnok said:

 

Game is still in beta stage of development, so it is good to suggest new things.

LOL as i said maybe play and learn about the gmae you do alot of suggestion for .....Beta ...roflmao

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5 minutes ago, Darnok said:

 

Funnily enough, I noticed a UI change not that long ago that introduced a basic feature - buttons for special moves. Since when special moves are in game?

years. the new ui didn't show the icons due to a bug

 

lib would be absurdly broken in pvp and pve hunting with lower swing speed and dual wielding, if you've looked at the damage chart the highest dps non-artifact in the game is a tie between huge axe and sickle (sickle is 1h), so a lib would essentially be doing double the damage compared to anyone else using the strongest weapons while moving around faster, and that vyn one with the half creation time for bulk is also pretty broken on an alt. how on earth is this balance

Edited by Oblivionnreaver
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5 minutes ago, Darnok said:

 

Funnily enough, I noticed a UI change not that long ago that introduced a basic feature - buttons for special moves. Since when special moves are in game?

Even more "funnily".... ongoing development has nothing to do with being in Beta....

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45 minutes ago, Sovos said:

They're still pretty new, only been in for a decade or so.

 

So you are getting the point how from my (new player) perspective this game looks like?

 

There are many inconsistencies here. Well the fact that some tools can be used as weapons and others not, e.g. sickle vs hammer. What's the point of that? Either the hammer is a small maul tool and weapon at the same time or the sickle becomes just a tool.

Edited by Darnok

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24 minutes ago, Oblivionnreaver said:

years. the new ui didn't show the icons due to a bug

 

lib would be absurdly broken in pvp and pve hunting with lower swing speed and dual wielding, if you've looked at the damage chart the highest dps non-artifact in the game is a tie between huge axe and sickle (sickle is 1h), so a lib would essentially be doing double the damage compared to anyone else using the strongest weapons while moving around faster, and that vyn one with the half creation time for bulk is also pretty broken on an alt. how on earth is this balance

 

Jump on horse lib is slower riding also damage reduction on follower armor? Use bow?

Mag in my idea can deal extra dmg with 2 handed weapons I think that numbers can be set to make this right. Dual wielding right now is useless.

 

Follower have 30 favor max? So depends how much favor would burn per action, if 1.0 then you can make only 30 actions and wait for favor regeneration. Good for average player with many different things on todo list, little advantage for alt doing same thing for few hours.

 

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This is a Gish Gallop, and not worth the time to try to argue the individual points, because he'll just pivot to other gish-y galloping.

 

-1.

Edited by Nekojin
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1km/h on a horse is nothing, my horse can go up to around 47km/h max and my hellie can get 55km/h. even with a 5 speed with 70/70 gear its still around 35km/h or so, so like 3%. compared to 2x damage, 2.5% less reduction on armor is also nothing. Even if you're giving mag 2x damage on his swings, the dual wielding will be a lot stronger due to the two weapons with parry rate. "two tiles range" is a pretty meaningless buff when the longbow at high skill can hit until about 40 tiles.

 

When you're at 0 favor, the next regen tick in 5 seconds regenerates like 7 favor. you will quite literally regenerate favor faster than you can use it no matter what type of action you are doing, not to mention followers can still sacrifice and use gems to regenerate favor.

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you are making me rethink my opinion about this issue :(

 

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3 hours ago, Darnok said:

 

That is for followers and can be changed into any other extra resource. Numbers are too only example, but with advantage/disadvantage system I think they could be close to values I posted.

But lorewise Fo is a tree and nature loving hippy, and followers being able to do special stuff exclusive to said follower that priests cant doesnt make much sense. 

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