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Darnok

Skill gain as upkeep

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7 hours ago, Darnok said:

I have a problem with people who are inconsistent. In one post they say that PvE is not a race for materials, and in the second that they have 6 deeds.

 

I'm really wondering where did i mention PvE or that any of my deeds has anything at all to do with resources...

Please post a quote.

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7 hours ago, Darnok said:

What is the point in game like that?

"Oh no, I cannot mine this iron vein and am unable to move 50 tiles further to get another, the whole game is pointless now." What kind of malformed question even is that? It's not even rhetoric, you're just being downright melodramatic. It's a non-issue.

 

6 hours ago, Darnok said:

 

I have a problem with people who are inconsistent. In one post they say that PvE is not a race for materials, and in the second that they have 6 deeds.

 

So you wouldn't raise the issue if that strawman person that is nowhere to be seen here would admit they are purposefully hogging resources?

You're moving the goalpost. Probably because you realize how petty the gripe really is, so now we have to make it about people being hypocritical - based on your projection of motives on everyone else as you continue to refuse putting yourself in the boots of someone who just wants their pretty little spot untampered with and not having to work even more chores to keep it. If one cannot play in a sandbox game to make their mark in the world without it vanishing up in smoke because they don't find the time or motivation to play it for a few months, that is when it invalidates a large part of the game. The one thing people value is permanence in Wurm and that they are able to log in after a year without starting nearly over with only a minimum effort of spending a few silvers. This already puts a bigger onus on the players compared to other MMOs where you can log in many years after you left having done nothing to keep your stuff, and you want to exacerbate this? Because of a few deeds not to your liking? That's just ridiculous.

 

I saw you whinging about "being attacked rather than your idea" elsewhere, but if you are so emotionally and intellectually unable to hold a conversation in good faith and let your ideas actually be attacked instead of dodging the issues like you do, it's only par for the course that people start dunking on you instead. But I'll leave it at that as you play the victim card again to avoid introspection like people of your type always do, not worth spending more time on this as even CCAB will know better than to implement such a system.

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47 minutes ago, Flubb said:

"Oh no, I cannot mine this iron vein and am unable to move 50 tiles further to get another, the whole game is pointless now." What kind of malformed question even is that? It's not even rhetoric, you're just being downright melodramatic. It's a non-issue.

 

 

Speaking of strawman. There is problem only biased people have stopped paying attention to this. The game is designed for PvP where you can't put deed anywhere. PvE is broken in this regard. Dividing the map into different kingdoms where only subjects can place deeds and build structures would be better.

 

 

Quote

So you wouldn't raise the issue if that strawman person that is nowhere to be seen here would admit they are purposefully hogging resources?

You're moving the goalpost. Probably because you realize how petty the gripe really is, so now we have to make it about people being hypocritical - based on your projection of motives on everyone else as you continue to refuse putting yourself in the boots of someone who just wants their pretty little spot untampered with and not having to work even more chores to keep it. If one cannot play in a sandbox game to make their mark in the world without it vanishing up in smoke because they don't find the time or motivation to play it for a few months, that is when it invalidates a large part of the game. The one thing people value is permanence in Wurm and that they are able to log in after a year without starting nearly over with only a minimum effort of spending a few silvers. This already puts a bigger onus on the players compared to other MMOs where you can log in many years after you left having done nothing to keep your stuff, and you want to exacerbate this? Because of a few deeds not to your liking? That's just ridiculous.

 

Great, but what about the rest of the active players, who you cut off access to resources in this way without using them yourself? The map is finite in size, why should the inactive be allowed to do so? The current mechanism is pure pay for win. If you want to come back after a few months, find a single player game that gives you satisfaction.

 

Quote

I saw you whinging about "being attacked rather than your idea" elsewhere, but if you are so emotionally and intellectually unable to hold a conversation in good faith and let your ideas actually be attacked instead of dodging the issues like you do, it's only par for the course that people start dunking on you instead. But I'll leave it at that as you play the victim card again to avoid introspection like people of your type always do, not worth spending more time on this as even CCAB will know better than to implement such a system.

 

Maybe first read every post in conversation.

 

 

Edited by Darnok

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And now for a lesson in strawman vs. hyperbole:

Mr. Big Brain makes up a persona that both hogs deeds for resources and denies resource hogging is a problem. He was asked to substantiate this by Locath. (Answer was not provided, shockingly.). Fabricating a position that does not exist to make a point is called a strawman.

 

I took upon the point that resources are being blocked and the rhetorical conclusion that this invalidates the purpose of the game, and pointed out the obvious workaround of going elsewhere. I worded this in an antagonising way in how their statement is perceived to point out how badly both of these points that they brought up connect with eachother. They wouldn't have worded it this way obviously, but that doesn't mean it's not representing what they said. That is called hyperbole.

 

Don't fall for the faux intellectuals trying to one-up you by trying to 180° the accusation of a rhetorical fallacy on you without any merit to that claim. What I said is sufficiently representative of their point to make mine. They're just mad that it sounds pretty damn retarded when someone paraphrases it to reveal the petulent sentiment behind it. Did they, or did they not say there's no point to the game when resources can just be hogged? Just a reminder:

9 hours ago, Darnok said:

PvE is much more harsh when it comes to race for resources, since the bigger wallet wins and no matter how strong you get you can't stop this even if this guy is going for half year break, resources are still locked. What is the point in game like that?

But hey, you guys tell me if I'm strawmanning their position instead of just taking the piss on that last sentiment. I would ask OP but they're in kneejerk sophistry mode now. 🤷‍♂️

Not going to address the (reiterated, as though there haven't been answers to that already) points. I could marvel all day long on how far OP is willing to put their foot in your mouth to defy someone, but this post is mostly an educational piece on why you shouldn't engage with this sort of sophistry. Save your time and nerves for better suggestions. 🤞

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You can have every single resource on your deed without expansion.

Need peat/clay/tar? Transmutation liquid.

Need gold/silver/tin? Transmutation rod.

With a little experience and some effort, perhaps a little additional financial investment, you can have every resource you need on a 1s per month deed.

 

This suggestion is not needed, and forces players to treat Wurm as a job instead of a game. No thank you. Perhaps you need to log out for a bit and reconnect with reality. In the end, this game is a business and needs the income from premium and deed upkeep to continue to thrive.

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Maybe the possibility of expanding or having a deed above a certain size should be reserved only for premium? And also depend on the character's skill?

Combined with the original idea this should block a lot of abuse and pure pay for win resources.

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12 hours ago, Seriphina said:

You can have every single resource on your deed without expansion.

Need peat/clay/tar? Transmutation liquid.

Need gold/silver/tin? Transmutation rod.

With a little experience and some effort, perhaps a little additional financial investment, you can have every resource you need on a 1s per month deed.

 

This suggestion is not needed, and forces players to treat Wurm as a job instead of a game. No thank you. Perhaps you need to log out for a bit and reconnect with reality. In the end, this game is a business and needs the income from premium and deed upkeep to continue to thrive.

 

Then why are starter cities not crowded with deeds? Only resources nearby have been extracted and people are looking for a place for themselves further?

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21 minutes ago, Darnok said:

 

Then why are starter cities not crowded with deeds? Only resources nearby have been extracted and people are looking for a place for themselves further?

Because starter cities have very large perimeters, preventing Deeds from being built around them. Players can build buildings, fenced areas, and so on, but not deed them. Specifically so that new players CAN practice their skills in a relatively safe environment.

 

Edited by Nekojin

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Many of us are Wurm explorers and venturers.  That means that hour for hour, our time in Wurm always results in less skill gain than those who spend the time NOT travelling.  Up to now, that has been fine because Wurm is a sandbox game where we get to play however we want, and the only real pressure to gain skill is if we need it for something specific. Your suggestion would change that, effectively making Wurm something other than it is, probably something other than a sandbox.

 

Then there are many who have high skills that either DON'T gain any more or only gain very slowly.  Your suggestion essentially builds in a lifespan, where players who have been building their in-game world for years and years can have it taken away on a "well what effort have you put in lately" basis.  That is just inherently mean-spirited and unfair.  It disincentivizes making anything of lasting signifigance in the game.  All in game content is player-made, so if the players who can make the really cool content are discouraged from doing so, Wurm content degrades and disappears to be replaced with... what exactly?  Dozens of servers spinning off, each with low limits on player numbers, deeds, skills, with players killing each other for trees in perimeters and grinding skills all the time so their deed doesn't shrink or fall. 

 

That game would be PVP everywhere, players grinding skills to keep their deeds from shrinking or falling, nobody building anything they wouldn't be happy to abandon or lose.  That game would not be Wurm.

 

A premise for this suggestion is that there is some kind of scarcity because resources are under deeds, yet elsewhere you have asked for the right to kill others for accessing resources in "your" perimeter, which by the way you want 100 tiles wide.   I think you may be attributing your own mindset to others.  Your suggestions are for changing some pretty fundamental elements and aspects of the game; I would go so far as to say some of the game's distinctive features.  What it seems to add up to is that you don't much like the Wurm that others like.  I have seriously tried to work out what it is about Wurm that you do like - some "common ground" to build on - but I have not yet found anything.

 

Seriously, I think you should set up a WU server, or enlist someone to do so, and invite people to come try it.  It won't be the Wurm that we know, but it would allow you to show how your envisaged version of Wurm works.

Edited by TheTrickster
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On 9/20/2020 at 9:16 AM, Darnok said:

 

I have a problem with people who are inconsistent. In one post they say that PvE is not a race for materials, and in the second that they have 6 deeds.

 

Deeding is (in my own understanding) not primarily about locking resources away.  Deeding is how you stop decay on what you have made.  Effectively the deed holder pays upkeep so that they don't have to spend all of their in-game time maintaining everything they have made.  What you seem to be asking for is that the form of payment to avoid all this work is work.

Edited by TheTrickster
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17 hours ago, Seriphina said:

With a little experience and some effort, perhaps a little additional financial investment, you can have every resource you need on a 1s per month deed.

 

Or if you want to make sure it isn't locked away, put it in the perimeter of your deed.  That way it will remain available to everybody, where it can't be deeded over.  Oh, wait, you also  want to stop people accessing your resources in your perimeter.  It actually isn't your perimeter.  Perimeters are areas designed specifically to prevent deeding those tiles so that they cannot be locked away under a deed.  It just happens that one of these perimeters is around your deed.  People plan for expansion by having large perimeters, but they cannot reduce their perimeter below the minimum, so by design for every single deed that exists there is also a set area that can not be deeded at all.  The outcome you are trying to achieve with your suggestion is already achieved by the perimeter system.

Edited by TheTrickster
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I still dont understand which resources are so rare and precious to you that you worry about people deeding over them on a 24/7 basis?

 

Would you mind listing them and explaining to me why they seem so precious to you?

 

Because they aren't.

 

Veins are placed randomly, have random quality/quantity and are everywhere. Collapse can generate new veins and you can create your own with a transmutation rod. 

Clay can be created with transmutation liquids. The only resource that is worth something. 

Tar is hardly used and you can get more than you ever need by making a few charcoal piles that will also give you ash and charcoal. Also can be created with transmutation liquids

Peat is just used for forge fuel... hardly any useful or precious and can be created by transmutation liquids

Moss is fuel just like tar, and used a little bit in fishing. Not important. Again, it can be created by transmutation liquids

 

So please tell us what you mean when you talk about resources? 

 

Next you'd be complaining about people creating their own resources.

Edited by atazs
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I believe the OP has Wurm confused with,  or wishes it to be more like,  Haven&Hearth or Salem.  In those worlds, quality resources were locations to be fought over, locked away and protected 24X7.

There was once a player in Salem known as darnokpl who garnered quite a poor reputation.....

 

 

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2 hours ago, yasgur said:

I believe the OP has Wurm confused with,  or wishes it to be more like,  Haven&Hearth or Salem.  In those worlds, quality resources were locations to be fought over, locked away and protected 24X7.

There was once a player in Salem known as darnokpl who garnered quite a poor reputation.....

 

 

Interesting...

https://forum.salemthegame.com/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=1009

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11 hours ago, atazs said:

 

This is just a step away from stalking?

 

But that's how I play, never hid behind alts, unlike the people who were on the other side. As for reputation, it's hard to have high reputation among opponents. My actions were draining their resources and game changes I suggested made their lives more difficult.

 

There I also gave a few small suggestions, although as I read it now, I tried to change that game in Wurm even I didn't know Wurm exists back then.

http://forum.salemthegame.com/viewtopic.php?f=12&t=6276&p=75329&hilit=fight&sid=95676d97a263ddad741577514e06cdda#p75329

 

Well, sometimes I came up with something that was implemented or imitated by the game developers over time.

http://forum.salemthegame.com/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=2583&hilit=fight&sid=429f8dc6ee9167c7b5d3535790a602c7

 

The good old days, thanks for reminding me this... Fight club in PvE in Wurm hmm 🙂

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You do know there's whole ass servers full of resources right? 
 

There's plenty of undeeded land with resources. If you need marble but don't got any in your mine? Go out with a wagon and some trusty steeds, a boat too if you must sail. There's how many servers you can freely cross to and explore? 
 

If you're too lazy to go more than five tiles from your place, or adventure is not your thing, then just buy ###### you need from other players 🤷‍♂️

 

No need to punish deed owners because you don't have something yourself.

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