Darnok

Visible player skills

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Negative.

 

Wurm is A sandbox, not YOUR sandbox.

 

Arguments like "If you don't want me to see then stay away" are kind of like "If you don't like the way I drive stay off the footpath."  It is not up to others else to police themselves in relation to something you shouldn't be doing anyway.

 

If you want to compete against other players, which from several of your posts and topics seems to be what you want, then Wurm has several servers specifically for that.  They are called "Player versus Player" whereas there are "Player versus Environment" servers for those of us who do NOT want to compete with other players.  

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7 hours ago, Darnok said:

The fact that so many of you are practically attacking me because of this idea best captures the community mentality and explains why in this form Wurm is a discouraging for most normal people. Not everyone wants to play games, if skills are important, and they are, they should be visible to anyone who comes close enough to my character.

 

No, nobody is attacking you for this idea.  People are getting frustrated with your particular brand of "discussion" that includes the virtual equivalent of foot-stomping "because I want it" on your side of the discussion and a complete failure to evince any real comprehension of the objections.  Thus, people give up addressing your idea and begin trying to address your interlocution.

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You pay for your account.

I pay for my account.

You ain't got no right to view the skills of my account, full stop.

 

-1

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19 minutes ago, TheTrickster said:

 

No, nobody is attacking you for this idea.  People are getting frustrated with your particular brand of "discussion" that includes the virtual equivalent of foot-stomping "because I want it" on your side of the discussion and a complete failure to evince any real comprehension of the objections.  Thus, people give up addressing your idea and begin trying to address your interlocution.

 

They are free to do not read my ideas 🙂

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7 minutes ago, Shrimpiie said:

You pay for your account.

I pay for my account.

You ain't got no right to view the skills of my account, full stop.

 

-1

 

Some people buy items with silver that they bought with real money, if I can see their items, their ql and enchantments why can't I see player skills? I can see buildings on your deed which you paid for too. Maybe buildings should also be hidden?

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8 minutes ago, Darnok said:

Some people buy items with silver that they bought with real money, if I can see their items, their ql and enchantments why can't I see player skills? I can see buildings on your deed which you paid for too. Maybe buildings should also be hidden?

Except I can prevent you from seeing my items by locking it up in containers, in houses, in walled up deeds.

You don't have a right to see any of their contents either.

 

You can see what I am wearing, but you cannot see what I have in my inventory.

You don't have a right to see any of that either.

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16 hours ago, Darnok said:

If you need privacy, play the single player game. Money is another matter and it has to do with the real world, so it can be hidden, but the skills and what you're wearing are just pixels, the only reason you want to hide them is to cheat on other people.

 

Just in case nobody has mentioned this yet, there is another reason to not have your skill levels immediately visible to everyone. It's called human decency, respectfulness, and courtesy. 

Behind those "just pixels" is an actual person.
By including in Wurm a menu option to "view skills" on other characters, you are removing a level of human interaction. If I can go around MMOs using menu options to view a character's build, a character's equipment, a character's skill levels - then I would be the one reducing other players down to "just pixels" - I would be treating other players like mobs or NPCs, as AI driven non-entities existing only as props for my game in my own world.

 

It is simply common courtesy to extent a modicum of respect to other player characters & their right to personal space, privacy, and agency. If you are curious about a character's skill set - be a human being and ask the person. 

Maybe the person will lie to you in response. But it is entirely possible that when you treat a character (and thereby a person) with a little respect and humanity, that person is going to respond to you in kind. 

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2 minutes ago, Amata said:

 

Just in case nobody has mentioned this yet, there is another reason to not have your skill levels immediately visible to everyone. It's called human decency, respectfulness, and courtesy. 

Behind those "just pixels" is an actual person.
By including in Wurm a menu option to "view skills" on other characters, you are removing a level of human interaction. If I can go around MMOs using menu options to view a character's build, a character's equipment, a character's skill levels - then I would be the one reducing other players down to "just pixels" - I would be treating other players like mobs or NPCs, as AI driven non-entities existing only as props for my game in my own world.

 

It is simply common courtesy to extent a modicum of respect to other player characters & their right to personal space, privacy, and agency. If you are curious about a character's skill set - be a human being and ask the person. 

Maybe the person will lie to you in response. But it is entirely possible that when you treat a character (and thereby a person) with a little respect and humanity, that person is going to respond to you in kind. 

 

That is why, in order to avoid lies, this option should exist.

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-1 It is a matter of privacy and in many regards I value mine! If someone wants to know my skill set they can ask me and I will choose to tell them or not depending on who they are and what I see as their intentions!

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15 hours ago, Darnok said:

I pay for premium with real money, why don't I have the right to know what skills the player living nearby has?

 

I truly hope that you really are just trolling with this topic.... because the idea that you might actually believe not just the things that you are saying - but also believe that your ideas are the correct ones to have... is just honestly scaring me right now. 

Why does paying for YOUR game give you the right to know information about MY game. We share a virtual world, not a bank account. 

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11 hours ago, Darnok said:

The problem with games like Wurm is ...


I sorta get the feeling that, for you, the problem with "games like Wurm" is that they don't actually fit well with your play style and gaming priorities. 

There are plenty of other games that would probably be a better fit for the things it seems that you want from your game. It is entirely possible to go join a like-minded community and enjoy playing a game you don't need to "fix" with a player base you don't need to convert to your way of thinking. 

What aspects of Wurm do you like? Do you like Wurm for what it already is? Or only for what you want it to be once it is fixed? 

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9 hours ago, Darnok said:

The fact that so many of you are practically attacking me because of this idea best captures the community mentality and explains why in this form Wurm is a discouraging for most normal people. Not everyone wants to play games, if skills are important, and they are, they should be visible to anyone who comes close enough to my character.

 

.... I might be wrong about this.... but I'm fairly certain that Wurm Online is a game. 

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17 minutes ago, Amata said:

 

I truly hope that you really are just trolling with this topic.... because the idea that you might actually believe not just the things that you are saying - but also believe that your ideas are the correct ones to have... is just honestly scaring me right now. 

Why does paying for YOUR game give you the right to know information about MY game. We share a virtual world, not a bank account. 

 

We share both if you have premium and you play on the same map.

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27 minutes ago, Darnok said:

 

That is why, in order to avoid lies, this option should exist.

"None of your *censored* business," is not a lie.

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26 minutes ago, Darnok said:

That is why, in order to avoid lies, this option should exist.

 

If the intent is to remove the element of possible lies from player interactions and transactions, then to achieve this desired result it would have to be mandatory for all players, not an option

You have already stated that if this concept was implemented as optional, you are committed to the view that everyone who subsequently opts out is revealing that they intend to lie and cheat other players. Other players might not take kindly to being implicitly called liars and cheaters, and so are responding to this idea negatively. 

But I'm a bit concerned about the train of thought that goes, "people cannot be trusted to behave in a desired way, so the solution is to remove people's free will when it comes to this behavior." 

There's a chance person might lie, therefore create game mechanic that tells the truth for the player
or how about, there's a chance a person might swear, therefore create a mandatory game mechanic that censors all swear-words. 
On that note - there's a chance a person might say something undesirable, therefore create a game mechanic that simply removes player-to-player communication, and from now on players can only communicate using a list of predetermined common phrases that have been hard-coded into the game. I have played games that do this. It is functional, but "just okay' on the level of internet based card games. It is utterly game breaking on the level of MMOs, let alone a sandbox MMO. 

How about this one - we can't trust people to not lie, cheat, steal, and generally make self-serving, community-harming, undesirable choices. Therefore, create a mechanic that removes all agency from the players. They can't be trusted with agency. They might not make the right decisions. In order to play Wurm, a person must be lobotomized to remove all but the most basic of human functions; that way we can be certain that players are not lying, do not intend to cheat, and will all be on an even playing field before they begin to compete against each other.  

Okay, so I took that to a very extreme place. .... but don't you see? It is not a positive to advocate for mechanics that ultimately remove other people's agency and autonomy. That's just not an okay thing to want. 

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32 minutes ago, Darnok said:

 

52 minutes ago, Amata said:

 

I truly hope that you really are just trolling with this topic.... because the idea that you might actually believe not just the things that you are saying - but also believe that your ideas are the correct ones to have... is just honestly scaring me right now. 

Why does paying for YOUR game give you the right to know information about MY game. We share a virtual world, not a bank account

 

We share both if you have premium and you play on the same map.

 

 

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I see the word "rights" here a lot; not sure I buy that.  There are preferences yes, but definitely not rights.

 

However, why not just offer a middle ground and make it an option players can toggle on/off?

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This has already been said. If the devs find the time to implement it as an option off by default, no problem, except the wasted time for such a widely useless feature. As a compulsory feature, NO, -1 (or more).

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One day, when you meet someone taking advantage of you having a high level in a skill, you will understand. Trying to be nice, and having someone say "Can you imp this for me? Can you make that for me? Can you imp this whole armor set for me? Can you make me smelters? Can you make me extra sets of armor and imp them all?" It is amazingly obnoxious and costs what could have been a nice friendship by literally making you want to avoid that person asking at all costs. I don't want to spend my time making stuff for other people unless I WANT to. I don't want to be asked to do things constantly for others, though if I see someone struggling I am MORE than willing and generous to OFFER if I have the time and the motivation. And believe me, I have helped many many people, so please don't act like I am being greedy. My skills are none of your business unless I choose to share them. Just like nobody else wants to see YOUR skills in return. You don't have that right just because you pay premium. Guess what? We all do to.

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Obvious troll is obvious.  Probably best not to feed it?

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Official highscore with an option as private would be nice everyone will be happy.

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22 minutes ago, Ngin said:

Official highscore with an option as private would be nice everyone will be happy.

No, it would not make everyone happy. That changes some of the mentality of the game - it makes the game explicitly competitive, which it currently is not. Even Ekcin's suggestion, of it being in the game but off by default and opt-in, still puts pressure on players to compete, a pressure that does not currently exist. (That said, there are some players, like the OP, who will still feel pressured to compete - but that's not a result of anything the game is doing.) 

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37 minutes ago, Nekojin said:

No, it would not make everyone happy. That changes some of the mentality of the game - it makes the game explicitly competitive, which it currently is not. Even Ekcin's suggestion, of it being in the game but off by default and opt-in, still puts pressure on players to compete, a pressure that does not currently exist. (That said, there are some players, like the OP, who will still feel pressured to compete - but that's not a result of anything the game is doing.) 

Well, get me right. I think if a large number of players would desire to have such an option, and the many thousand more pressing plans and issues of the devs' work would be done, I could acommodate with the implementation as an option, kinda ingame niarja skill compare (as this exists already, I deem it useless). In fact, the devs have sensible work for the next decade, and the proposal is likely to break records as the most undesired one ;).

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5 hours ago, Nekojin said:

puts pressure on players to compete, a pressure that does not currently exist

Ah, so you would also be in favour of removing ingame titles, as those also place pressure upon players to compete?  Surely they perform a similar function, namely showing off a skill level achieved?

 

18 hours ago, TheTrickster said:

 "Player versus Environment" servers for those of us who do NOT want to compete with other players.  

Actually that's quite incorrect; the "achiever" player type actively competes for high levels/perfect gear in a traditional mmorpg, one could easily see a parallel in wurm with high skills (and the naming rights of the title if you hit 100 in a skill first).  The killer player type is why we have PvP.

 

14 hours ago, Ekcin said:

 except the wasted time for such a widely useless feature

Oh boy, are you in for a surprise!

 

The crux here is that this feature isn't a change (it exists already in the metagame and to some degree in the main game itself in the form of titles) and it's a bit of harmless score keeping.  Officialising it would just let folks show off a bit more, which is all most people play wurm to do anyway.

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