CistaCista

Wurm Online being skinned alive

Recommended Posts

Some people are just ######s, and as above, some ######s become 'citizen journalists'.  In the crowded space that is people with opinions on games, being an ###### is probably a good way to generate click-bait, to get more traffic.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Good to see the replys on that Article, the Author has no clue.... and probably skipped Tutorial

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'm weirdly disappointed, the Massively podcast was how I first learned about Wurm a decade ago. The site has struck me as being pretty positive to Wurm in the past. These posts reads to me like the author is going for a specific Bit.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 I have to say, after reading through the play-through by Chris and then by the comments from some of you, I am more disappointed in your reactions and comments more than a new players not understanding how the game works. 

 

I sincerely hope you all think about whether attacking someone for not understanding a niche and complex game is the best look for the game.

  • Like 8

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Retrograde said:

 I have to say, after reading through the play-through by Chris and then by the comments from some of you, I am more disappointed in your reactions and comments more than a new players not understanding how the game works. 

 

I sincerely hope you all think about whether attacking someone for not understanding a niche and complex game is the best look for the game.


agree with this to an extent, though im still curious where and how he thought you needed charcoal to make a forge (and correctly knew you needed steel to do so) and decided to be somewhat aggressive about the supposed loop between getting steel and making a forge

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Retrograde said:

 I have to say, after reading through the play-through by Chris and then by the comments from some of you, I am more disappointed in your reactions and comments more than a new players not understanding how the game works. 

 

I sincerely hope you all think about whether attacking someone for not understanding a niche and complex game is the best look for the game.

 

Actually, I think what you see as "attacking someone for not understanding" is not actually that.  It seemed to me more of a disbelief that the reviewer could have failed to understand to the degree, and even specificity, portrayed.  In my early days I was not even aware of charcoal until I managed to come across some somewhere then went and looked up charcoal on wurmpedia.  This reviewer seemed to have some pretty particular and semi-esoteric knowledge about Wurm, knew how to use Wurmpedia and yet still thought charcoal was a fuel.  I would call the review a hatchet-job, except the reviewer probably dropped his hatched and can't find the wool for a new one.

Edited by TheTrickster
(hmm, might not have been that)
  • Like 4

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

For the record, as per Bree, the editor of MassivelyOP

 

Quote

Choose My Adventure isn’t a review or constructive criticism or a comprehensive research piece. It’s a let’s-play series where the writer usually goes in as a newbie and lets the game and the readers (through polls and comments) decide what he sees and does and experiences next over the course of several weeks. Much of the point of the series, which has been running close to 10 years across dozens of games with the same format, is to reveal the character of the community through its votes and advice and to examine how accessible the games are for typical MMO gamers in 2020, people who do not generally download the syllabus and study wikis before playing. It’s certainly done both here.

PS: He played the tutorial. He discussed it in the last piece. I also went through the tutorial a few weeks back and my opinion is Chris is being being charitable as to its state here. This is a problem with many old games, including many of my favorites (ask me what I think of UO’s and SWG’s garbage tutorials). That isn’t his job to compensate for – it’s the games’.

 

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 hours ago, Retrograde said:

to reveal the character of the community through its votes and advice

 

The problem with the review series is that the author has apparently refused to engage with other players in the game. He remains completely stuck in his errors, while observing that other players are having a field day around him, but never talking to them or using the chat channels at all for that matter.

 

That is also why in my opening post here, I appealed to Wurm players to go in and talk about the ways you can get help in Wurm. This failed, and Massively appears to be fine with condemning the community from the outside instead of having their reviewer engage with it.

 

It's a shame, because the site used to have an adventurous reviewer, Beau Hindman, that did a bunch of great video articles from Wurm.

Edited by CistaCista
  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
7 hours ago, Retrograde said:

 I have to say, after reading through the play-through by Chris and then by the comments from some of you, I am more disappointed in your reactions and comments more than a new players not understanding how the game works. 

 

I sincerely hope you all think about whether attacking someone for not understanding a niche and complex game is the best look for the game.

 

While there are some stupid ad personam things about game reviewers being this or that, there are also some valid points, most criticism (including mine) was not about him not understanding the game but him complaining he has to read the Wiki, and he obviously skipped the tutorial or just flicked through it, and he refused to play with other players, which is a sake of any MMORPG. 

 

Quote

Choose My Adventure isn’t a review or constructive criticism or a comprehensive research piece. 

 

This is interesting considering the content of their "About" page:

 

Quote

Massively Overpowered still strives to deliver nuanced and entertaining news, streams, and editorials focused on the vibrant massively multiplayer online roleplaying games market and orbiting genres. 

 

How do you write an editorial without research? How do you criticize something without using constructive critics? It is then just a mere bashing, not fitting well to this: 

 

Quote

Ethics statement The Massively Overpowered team is committed to ethical games journalism.

 

So if you describe yourself as a journalist, the research and constructive criticism are not options, they are requirements. Not to mention that a journalist is a public figure not a private person, plus they work for company that exists to gain profit.

 

Considering all the above, this is not "bashing a newbie", it is more like "criticizing bad journalism". 

 

@RetrogradeMost of us provided constructive criticism, telling the author what mistakes he made and how he can improve his game play, calling us all off-putting is quite undeserved. 

Edited by Platyna

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Quote

.. to reveal the character of the community through its votes and advice ..

Everywhere else we would call that trolling 😎 .

 

And lol, that:

Quote

typical MMO gamers in 2020, people who do not generally download the syllabus and study wikis before playing

Even actual single player games nowadays have their wikis, and those are studied, and expected even by the youngsters playing for the first time on their game consoles. While I tend to agree that Wurm may not be for "typical MMO gamers", or at least not for a large share of them, I wonder about the outdated view of these author and editor on the gaming scene.

Edited by Ekcin
  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Play divinity original sin 1 or 2 . You'll eventually get curious and read a wiki about quest outcomes, recipes, secrets, combat suggestions, npcs, etc.

Play Starcraft 1 or 2. You might just check up on some sites that show optimal build orders or secret in game mechanics or little easter eggs.

Play a lot of single player games and a player might just read  the game's wiki to find out some information about certain things.

Wikis are also read to find out about bugs or potentially game breaking situations that weren't patched in the game.

 

Any decent player or so called "gaming journalist" will HAVE to do his research , and this isn't an optional thing, it's a must when you're playing/reviewing a game. How can review something when you don't even bother to learn how it works or performs?

 

And honestly, constructively speaking, anyone that dares to review a game without actually bothering to read the tutorial attentively rightfully deserves criticism seeing as it's a generally poor life attitude. But when it comes to journalism and the responsibility it comes with the job ? (a lot of journalists forget they do have a responsibility)

 

Research isn't optional. Don't become a journalist if you're too lazy to read. Wurm's tutorial is pretty short.  It's part of the job. 99% of journalism is research, writing is 1% of it.

 

While I don't support trolling people, there is valid criticism to be made on a person's skewed review based on shallow gameplay.

Edited by elentari
  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

As said before. This is not a review. 

 

This is someone playing through the game and blogging about it, they are not negatively presenting the game, they are sharing their experiences.

 

Like anyone, take the time to guide them to the right places, give tips, advice, and help.

 

Wurm is a great community, I know it is, let's put our best representation out at all times. 

  • Like 4

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
16 minutes ago, Retrograde said:

This is someone playing through the game and blogging about it, they are not negatively presenting the game, they are sharing their experiences.

I respectfully agree on some points and disagree with others on what you said Retro. My reasoning is as follows:

 

The  OP that is in question has the title of "reporter" on his website. Look up the team description. Don't know if it's an age thing but when I see the title "reporter" that comes with things attached.

 

Should we treat his words from the point of view of a blogger who just gives his personal opinion on games? In that case it's just an average Joe giving his thoughts on something. On that I agree that the normal customer/gamer doesn't really bear any responsibility for his reviews/experiences. Some just might be having a bad gaming experience because they didn't configure their PC well enough to handle a game and hence throw a negative review "the game sucks cause it lags".

 

But in this case, the writer has the title of "reporter" and is publishing his words on a website that stipulates to regularly publish editorials/columns on games. That's pretty much the definition of journalism. And they also have a journalism statement on their "about us " page.

 

The gripe some of us had, is that the writer didn't do his research well or didn't read everything patiently and thus his experience,words, review will be skewed due to that.
 

As I said this isn't just some random player. It's someone who has a specific title and the responsibility that comes with it.

  • Like 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I think it's too easy to forget the frustrations of being a newbie in Wurm.  I think it's important to look back on our own newbie days with fondness and bit of self deprecating humor, and maybe smile indulgently "with" the newbie and try to set them on the right path, but not laugh at them or criticize and try to make them feel like an idiot. Because let's face it, we were all "idiots" in the beginning. Let them know we've all been there, which if we're honest, is true.  Wurm isn't an easy game to learn. And that's an understatement. There's so much we take for granted now.  And Wogic may just seem quirky to us now, but Wogic can be an incredibly frustrating experience, especially when you're new, and for some can be rage-quit inducing.

 

While it may be true that the writer 'appears' at first glance to not have done his homework, in fairness he did say he "followed the breadcrumb trail" with the wiki and even youtube videos.  And I think it's fair to say that the wiki, while informative, also leaves a lot to be desired even for those who understand what it's telling us to do, and the little things each article makes reference to.  The writer obviously thought, as he said, that you "equip" the tool and then "activate" it. That's a small thing, and relatively harmless, but things like prospecting can be a major thing as we saw in his comments. It's too easy to feel contempt when someone doesn't see what we consider to be obvious. It's only obvious by virtue of it having become second nature to us.

 

I saw that article as being a "newbie journey," and reporting his experience and observations as a pure newbie, just as in many youtube vids I've seen where they do that for many games. They're entertaining and in no way can be taken as a definitive statement on what the game is like once you've learned to play.  They're newbie experiences and I think most people understand that. 

 

I'll admit at first I was a bit put off by his way of expressing the frustration he felt, but frustration is difficult to convey in written words without coming across as criticism. I think that some have not shown our best side in the comments section.  I wanted to post a reply there but can't find a way to register on the website.  I do see a reference to them wanting me to disable my ad blocker and/or donate through patreon, so maybe you can't register there if you use an ad blocker and/or unless you donate? Whatever, guess I don't want to register on their site that badly. lol.

Edited by Amadee

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

https://massivelyop.com/about/

 

2 hours ago, Retrograde said:

As said before. This is not a review. 

 

Quote

Massively Overpowered still strives to deliver nuanced and entertaining news, streams, and editorials focused on the vibrant massively multiplayer online roleplaying games market and orbiting genres. 

 

Quote

The Massively Overpowered team is committed to ethical games journalism. 

 

2 hours ago, Retrograde said:

This is someone playing through the game and blogging about it, they are not negatively presenting the game, they are sharing their experiences.

 

Quote

Massively Overpowered is wholly owned and operated by Overpowered Media Group, LLC, an independent, small business founded by and for our writing team in 2015. Our remote contractors hail from ten US states as well as the UK and Canada. We are formally based out of Philadelphia, Pennsylvania, USA.

 

2 hours ago, Retrograde said:

Like anyone, take the time to guide them to the right places, give tips, advice, and help.

 

We did, there were many constructive and helpful comments. 

Edited by Platyna
  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

From Bree Royce in comments on the website's article (journal entry #2) :

 

Spoiler

Edit: The OP came back and literally accused our writer of lying, so yeah, we’re done here, locking thread.

 

<sarcasm on> Does that mean congratulations, Wurm Online community, you showed them??? <sarcasm off>

 

That was one of the very few articles about Wurm Online since the Steam addition that was paying the game any attention.  I have to say I'm sadly disappointed as a player and community member in the interactions that led to that result.

Thank you KatsPurr and Retrograde for making the effort to mediate and offer encouragement.

 

 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I think we all know that Wurm can be highly unintuitive even at the best of times, and starting out new trying to learn everything can be difficult. Especially when trying to go at it with a sense-of-discovery-first attitude like the author of this piece did;
 

Quote

Then, of course, there’s the fact that the Wurmpedia seems to be the primary guiding hand for the game. Stubbornly, I’ve been ignoring it to this point, but I get the feeling I’m only hamstringing myself by doing so.

 

Instead of grilling the author over not engaging in the variant of play we have all become accustomed to over years of experience with Wurm this is a good opportunity to see through the eye of a person not accustomed to Wurm or the games that require a similar mindset. 

As for the insulting posters,
rly?

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Tristanc said:

From Bree Royce in comments on the website's article (journal entry #2) :

 

  Hide contents

Edit: The OP came back and literally accused our writer of lying, so yeah, we’re done here, locking thread.

 

<sarcasm on> Does that mean congratulations, Wurm Online community, you showed them??? <sarcasm off>

 

That was one of the very few articles about Wurm Online since the Steam addition that was paying the game any attention.  I have to say I'm sadly disappointed as a player and community member in the interactions that led to that result.

Thank you KatsPurr and Retrograde for making the effort to mediate and offer encouragement.

 

 

 

I am the OP there and I don't remember accusing anyone of lying. I kept all my posting there polite and on topic, without any accusations or personal attacks. So either I got ricochetted with was originally directed to someone else or there is some mistake. Many people pointed out that he had to skip tutorial or just to flick through it, but this is not the same as accusing someone of lying.

 

They didn't do the proper research, and they met the backlash (I do not support any ad personam entries), a real value of media company is how it handles constructive criticism of the content they publish.

 

 

escalated-quickly_1552996832537_78132592

Edited by Platyna
  • Like 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

While I agree that life as a newbie is hard, and I had a harder newbie time even, now nearly 3 years ago, without pelt, no guaranteed success on low levels, all that, it is not easy even today to start in Wurm. And newbie experiences are certainly precious. But sorry, I read through the two articles, and did not find but outright hostility, mockery, venom, and cynicism from the first line of writing in it. And while I welcome the attempts of Katspurr and Platyna to give a more balanced account, especially against that disgruntled most probably banned ex-Wurmian spitting disinformation and defamation on the team, I fail to see much of a constructive attitude in that blog. That is why I resisted any temptation to register there to comment (there is no excuse for reacting impolitely though).

 

Even giving them attention this thread is not possibly a good idea. I agree to Elentari that somebody calling himself reporter, and a blog claiming to do journalism are completely failing their job with such a "report". It is mere disinfo to conceal before a readership not knowing the game that there is a CA Help channel, where everything not clear to a beginner can be asked and is responded in a kind and helpful manner. It is disinfo to conceal the extent of newbie equipment which has even been extended since my start in Wurm. And it is disinfo to ask that venomous poll over charcoal. I simply disbelieve that the author is truly that ignorant. He could have seen tens of forges in operation and simply asked in local or pm where they got all that charcoal for ;)

 

I recall how often I asked as a beginner how to do, find, or get something, getting more offers to get it sent than i would ever have wanted. I doubt that that article's author did even try to contact anybody ingame who could have disturbed his hostile attitude. Certainly I myself have made a lot of stupid mistakes as a newbie, and not only as a newbie, and am not exempt from making further ones. But I do not publish them on a blog as a complaint, or blame everybody else for.

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

This is all just so sad. Regardless of what anyone thinks about the writer or how he wrote it, or even what his motivations are, it's all irrelevant in light of the end result and the picture that has been painted of the Wurm Community in general. 

 

This is a quote from one poster on that article and I think it speaks volumes.

"I always thought Wurm Online having a good and fairly welcoming community. That was untill seeing their comments here today. What I saw was people instead trying to help a newbie(this Articles Author) who was struggling, to resort into trolling him mostly and pointing the obvious(that he is a newbie). Why would anyone go play with them?"

 

Very sad this is the impression we've left with people from that web site, who may or may not have heard of Wurm before and may have been considering trying it out.   This is the picture we've presented and it saddens me because this is not who we really are as a community.  :(

 

edit:  And also forgot to say that I doubt very much that the writer is going to be very motivated now to continue covering the game, nor do I think any would-be future web site writers will be encouraged to cover it themselves without thinking twice about it, long and hard.  Maybe without allowing comments.

Edited by Amadee
  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

@Amadee: To be honest, no reason to be sad, or to care much for. Cynically spoken, is bad press always better than no press, and when we all are "presented" as evil people, I fail to believe that this will be a reason to abhor anyone not already abhorred by the venomous "misadventures". Some may even become curious for that very reason.

 

And I do not see that all misconceptions about us being so bad towards newbies will survive the first ten minutes in Wurm of any player trying it out. I even can imagine that "fueling a forge with charcoal" will become a meme, a running joke for misreporting about Wurm. So don't be concerned, 蚍蜉撼树 as the Chinese use to say.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
48 minutes ago, Amadee said:

This is all just so sad. Regardless of what anyone thinks about the writer or how he wrote it, or even what his motivations are, it's all irrelevant in light of the end result and the picture that has been painted of the Wurm Community in general. 

I agree, however it is quite obvious that the reviewer was "mad on arrival" and I doubt *anything* can be posted in response to change their opinion of the game. They (purposely??) missed some very important concepts that are taught during the very short tutorial and tried to jump into advanced play within a short time of starting... without bothering to ask anyone for help or advice. I think at least some of the negativity in the response posts is actually a response to the obvious hatchet job of a "review". That said, I didn't register on the site to respond because I didn't want to give the blog post any credence.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Way to teach that pesky reviewer a lesson. Sure showed him.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
11 hours ago, Retrograde said:

For the record, as per Bree, the editor of MassivelyOP

 

 

And yet.... he said that WIKI told him only Charcoal works on a Forge....

 

Explain me that.... because that.... is simply just.... a lie.....

Edited by Caduryn
  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now