Etherdrifter

Population Data So Far

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I would happily build a new deed on a new server if I could use my same character.  But as much as I agree that there shouldn't be 10 different servers to build on, there are people that play the game that will move away before they'll live "near" someone in 5 locals.  

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Does the number of servers itself matter? You could copypaste all southern islands that aren't Xanadu (including Chaos) into a single map the size of Xanadu and still have three small servers worth of extra ocean. Now you'd have two servers, and more travel difficulty, (and no PvP I guess,) but it wouldn't really make a difference otherwise.

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Posted (edited)

I can see servers like Celebration, Exodus, Pristine, Release and Deliverance all having their specific population and atmosphere, not to speak about Independence and Xanadu. I can't say that any of these servers is "unnecessary" or wasteful. As to Epic, there was a unique slaying event short ago, with some 25 participants, not much for Freedom in comparison, but still pleasant. On NFI, the different servers also seem to be developping their unique atmosphere as far as I can judge about. Maybe one should not have created so many servers in the first place. But it happened, so what?

 

Removing would mean alienating not few players, with the prospect of them leaving for good. And well, I like neighbours, but especially when there are at least 100 to 200 tiles between them and my perimeter boundaries. Xanadu is ideal for that.

Edited by Ekcin
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7 hours ago, Lisimba said:

Does the number of servers itself matter? You could copypaste all southern islands that aren't Xanadu (including Chaos) into a single map the size of Xanadu and still have three small servers worth of extra ocean. Now you'd have two servers, and more travel difficulty, (and no PvP I guess,) but it wouldn't really make a difference otherwise.

 

No, it doesn't matter.  Give us a new South Freedom map or two to settle on that doesn't require making a new character.

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Now I do not understand. Do you want more additional servers or less servers. And if the latter, why, it would not make too many players happy. If the further, hm. I think we have enough servers already.

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3 hours ago, Wargasm said:

 

No, it doesn't matter.  Give us a new South Freedom map or two to settle on that doesn't require making a new character.

Why?

 

There are plenty of servers as it is with the current player base, unless servers handle people better with performance at peak activities and there's some new content to just pull all grandma and pas from your facebook shares of wurm caught carps.. well.. idk new server is not a solution to anything, there's no need for one.

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"I don't want it therefore no one should" 

 

 

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in no reality should we have new servers, hell we shoulda just kept with harmony only, the northern servers are too many even

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4 hours ago, Jeston said:

in no reality should we have new servers, hell we shoulda just kept with harmony only, the northern servers are too many even

You say that as someone who doesn't live there,  nor were you affected when melody was so full there was nowhere to deed, same as harmony.  

 

Yes, melody should have been another 4k server,  but it's incredibly ignorant to say that it shouldn't have been done.  

This isn't even a player decision, it's a bizdev one that is way above any input from players. 

 

Some players have this weird idea that if people didn't have space they'd all have fun living on top of each other, but a huge amount of resources in the game require leaving the deed and using that empty space. Just because you don't leave your deed, doesn't mean that that space isn't necessary for a game.  

 

Additionally, you out two players together in local, you'll have four arguments and disputes, the game is not designed around people having their own deeds in close proximity, and even if that's what YOU want, why don't you find others and do it? It's a sandbox after all.  

 

Me personally, I'll continue to enjoy my empty spaces between deeds because I like being able to roam, and fences and walls to navigate around doesn't mean a fun time to me. 

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They failed to identify what actually a brand new player would want and catered only to the veteran players that left SFI to sheer the sheeps in NFI. So pretty much all new players were officially funneled into NFI only, mislead and trolled. One bad decision after another and here we are.

 

New servers were needed only because no one actually inform the new players of the benefits of playing on SFI, all we had was trolling on the forum how shitty SFI players are.

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Posted (edited)

All the current servers, both SFI and NFI, are of the same type (if you disregard size).

I would like to see specialized servers like the infamous hunting server (more mobs? harder mobs? new types of mobs?). Maybe a farming server without the most dangerous mobs and with no high mountains. Maybe some mining server with the low chance of finding a vein with 10kg of moon metal.

 

All the servers being similar makes most of them rather uninteresting.

Edited by griper
grammer

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Posted (edited)
3 hours ago, Tor said:

They failed to identify what actually a brand new player would want and catered only to the veteran players that left SFI to sheer the sheeps in NFI. So pretty much all new players were officially funneled into NFI only, mislead and trolled. One bad decision after another and here we are.

 

New servers were needed only because no one actually inform the new players of the benefits of playing on SFI, all we had was trolling on the forum how shitty SFI players are.

Actually one of the biggest pieces of feedback from new players who left the game was "I'm starting fresh in a land where decade old accounts are roaming" which is a clear indication of the need for a fresh start location.  

 

The SFI players wanted the new players on the old servers for the exact reason you throw around,  to sell items to. nfi was setup because new players wanted that and it was repeatedly expressed on the forums.  

 

The problem is all the SFI players complaining about nfi existing and not being merged, I've seen very little of the opposite

Edited by Archaed

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Posted (edited)
21 minutes ago, Archaed said:

The SFI players wanted the new players on the old servers for the exact reason you throw around,  to sell items to. nfi was setup because new players wanted that and it was repeatedly expressed on the forums.  

 

 

Selling and shearing isn't exactly the same. I am wondering how many new players quit because they can't afford to throw like 200-300 euros in a game just to start with.

Edit: and i mean new players, not new accounts

Edited by Tor
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Posted (edited)
35 minutes ago, Archaed said:

Actually one of the biggest pieces of feedback from new players who left the game was "I'm starting fresh in a land where decade old accounts are roaming" which is a clear indication of the need for a fresh start location. 

Okay and how is a right decision exactly setting up this said new players  that quit because of this reason against coordinated 10 years veterans with 18+ hours per day play time, no fatigue, lots of short term windows of opportunuty and loopholes. It's pretty much all the same thing, even worst. And with this reasoning proved why would a new player even try/play this game now after so many players had a huge head start with lots of windows of oportunty abuses already?

Edited by Tor

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54 minutes ago, Archaed said:

The problem is all the SFI players complaining about nfi existing and not being merged, I've seen very little of the opposite

 

This "complainging" might as well be a valid concern about the health of state of the game in general , which is opposite of maintaining status quo in someone elses pockets

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You pretty much explained why the Northern freedom Isles were a good idea. 

 

Good job. 

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Just now, Archaed said:

You pretty much explained why the Northern freedom Isles were a good idea. 

 

Good job. 

 

It doesn't exactly work like that.

 

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, Tor said:

 they can't afford to throw like 200-300 euros in a game just to start with.

 

Why would they need to do this?

 

1 hour ago, Archaed said:

Actually one of the biggest pieces of feedback from new players who left the game was "I'm starting fresh in a land where decade old accounts are roaming" which is a clear indication of the need for a fresh start location.  

 

The SFI players wanted the new players on the old servers for the exact reason you throw around,  to sell items to. nfi was setup because new players wanted that and it was repeatedly expressed on the forums.  

 

The problem is all the SFI players complaining about nfi existing and not being merged, I've seen very little of the opposite

 

Hits the nail on the head really, I think the biggest advocates for the merge are people who fail to grasp the real nuance of an operation of that type.

Are there good credit points towards a merge from their side? Sometimes, yes, absolutely. But I fail to see any reason why it should be pushed forward ASAP and I think it's amazing to see a Wurm land not tainted by the previous ongoing nature of the old servers, even if I'm not directly part of it.

Edited by Madnath
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Posted (edited)
3 hours ago, Archaed said:

Actually one of the biggest pieces of feedback from new players who left the game was "I'm starting fresh in a land where decade old accounts are roaming" which is a clear indication of the need for a fresh start location.  

I am one of the players starting new on such a server. I cannot remember a single case where a decade old account hindered or bothered me in any way. On contrary, I found them a valuable resource to ask questions, and sometimes to get help in an extremely complex game.

 

I did not need to buy lots of silvers, I even got a few donations of items from those "decade old accounts", though advice and help with problems was the most invaluable gift I received. One of the pleasant experiences was detecting that I could receive coins when foraging and botanizing which I initially did for resources. It helped me to get my first month of premium, and opening my deed. One of the most impressive and lasting experiences was my first impalong (thanks, Dracaa), less than ten months after I first hit the lands of Wurm. A further great experience were my first participations on rifts.

 

How long did it take until NFI newcomers got their first coins from coffers? You know the answer.

How long did it take until NFI players managed to organize the first impalong? You know as well.

How long did it take until NFI experienced its first rift? You know .. and it came along with one of the most filthy and wrong nerfs for all Wurm players.

 

Mind that of the initially 28k accounts which could have experienced similar like me, which shaped my allegiance and affection for Wurm despite all its flaws and troubles, no more than a few thousand were able to enjoy such experiences. Instead, they found themselves herded into overcrowded spaces and overpopulated settlements, with the illusion that could last. The disillusionment of a rapidly waning population caused a herd instinct.

 

I agree, btw. that the creation of a separate cluster made sense, and that it was economically helpful for the company. What would have been possible, would have been avoiding the fierce anti SFI propaganda and complete ignorance of Epic, and opening an opportunity for discontent NFI beginners (maybe likewise for SFI) for a one time transfer to the opposite cluster. Such has been proposed and ignored, better have them run away. Ok, not crying over spilled milk anymore.

 

Quote

The SFI players wanted the new players on the old servers for the exact reason you throw around,  to sell items to. nfi was setup because new players wanted that and it was repeatedly expressed on the forums.  

That is not true. The relatively few new players coming to SFI had exactly the advantages I enjoyed when coming to Xanadu. SFI players, at least nearly all of them, just wanted some new company rather than sheep to shear. Who the damn needs silver?

 

Quote

The problem is all the SFI players complaining about nfi existing and not being merged, I've seen very little of the opposite

That is not true. Mind that the most visited threads about cluster merge were by Bloodreina, a NFI beginner. And I heard a lot of such voices by at least a number of NFIers. Rather, many wish a non trivial "unification" in some impressive event, not just opening the borders. And there is opposition against merge on NFI too, by respectable players like Dale for example - and by you too. Your assertion is uncredible and completely unsupported.

 

We have learnt that a merge is not possible now due to technical problems of code integrity. Once more I want to learn, first what kind of code differences exist, and second, whether there is a roadmap to fix them.

Edited by Ekcin
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11 hours ago, Archaed said:

The SFI players wanted the new players on the old servers for the exact reason you throw around,  to sell items to. nfi was setup because new players wanted that and it was repeatedly expressed on the forums.  

 

The problem is all the SFI players complaining about nfi existing and not being merged, I've seen very little of the opposite

I'm going to stop you right there.

 

It is a bitter irony that almost all NFI complaints about the merge I have seen have come from players who are worried about their own sales.

 

Also, there is a difference between "open spaces" (a good thing) and a dead world (a bad thing).  We've gone through the former and well into the latter (I mean, lets be realistic a moment here, the drop in player density on both clusters that my data highlights is nothing short of cataclysmic - there are probably less players now than before the steam release).  There isn't a call for a merge because "muh monehz", there is a call for a server merge because the community has been split, and there are far less people in both worlds than there could be (you'll burn out much faster if your friends are on another cluster, or if you try and double your toons to take part in 2 communities).  Take a walk around Xanadu some time, see how long it takes you to spot someone in local once you're more than 10 mins away from a starter town - the roads were once filled with homes and wonder, now we have flat empty forest with deserted pathways.  The old cluster is a careful warning to the new...  "Don't put too much time in here, it'll all be wasted anyway"

 

7 hours ago, Ekcin said:

I agree, btw. that the creation of a separate cluster made sense, and that it was economically helpful for the company. What would have been possible, would have been avoiding the fierce anti SFI propaganda and complete ignorance of Epic, and opening an opportunity for discontent NFI beginners (maybe likewise for SFI) for a one time transfer to the opposite cluster. Such has been proposed and ignored, better have them run away. Ok, not crying over spilled milk anymore.

What Ekcin has also politely not mentioned is that policies that are economically helpful for the company are not always going to be supported by their consumer base (the players); indeed, it rarely is if the policy is shortsighted (which just bunging in some new servers was).  This puts you in a scenario of doing something economically the equivelent of slaughtering the golden goose.  You might get a good price for the corpse, but you'll be getting no more golden eggs.

 

11 hours ago, Archaed said:

Actually one of the biggest pieces of feedback from new players who left the game was "I'm starting fresh in a land where decade old accounts are roaming" which is a clear indication of the need for a fresh start location. 

The only reason people would have an issue with "decades old accounts" is if they were competing against them in some way.  From a PvP perspective, this makes good sense (which suggests Epic should be a priority as its curve makes entering PvP much easier); however, from a PvE perspective it sounds like a design issue with player interactions.  If an unskilled character has nothing to offer save bulk servitude or real life cash, they're going to resent older accounts, and fixing this is what needs to be done.

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Posted (edited)
8 hours ago, Etherdrifter said:

the drop in player density on both clusters that my data highlights is nothing short of cataclysmic - there are probably less players now than before the steam release

 

Help me understand this: how would a merge bring about a higher density of players? A merge doesn't do that, only deletion of servers does that (in theory, but many would rage quit).

 

Merging of the NFI and SFI would in fact have the effect that some players, like myself, would reduce their number of active accounts. Others would come back for a while to travel the lands they haven't seen. They could do that without even subscribing to the game you know. 

 

So, here is a game I haven't played: New World! A few weeks ago I read that they are having server merges. This is not something that makes me think wow, that's a game that is really happening right now, this I gotta play. Definitely not. Nevertheless, because they delete servers in New World, player density must increase.

 

So again, can someone explain how merging NFI and SFI - without server deletions - would lead to higher player density? Noone who has not played Wurm before will read the news and think that something exciting is going on.

 

Edited by Cista

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1 hour ago, Cista said:

 

Help me understand this: how would a merge bring about a higher density of players?

If it had been done previously, it would have helped with the horrific overcrowding on the new cluster, and the desolation which was the old cluster.

 

Now?  It would likely only have a minor impact as both clusters are in strife.

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First of all, I think Etherdrifter is wrong. When the "unique weekly login count" started, some months before the merge, it stood, if I recall correctly, between 2,500 and 3,000. Now it is between 4,500 and 5,200 during the last nearly 2 years which shows that there was retention from the steam launch. From my observations, Xanadu participation is clearly above that of the really bad year 2019, and the decision to go to steam, and in that course abandon RMT and player gods, already helped participation in early 2020.

 

I would love to see Chakron's stored figures to see whether I am wrong. Anyway, I agree and argued that chances have been missed, and significantly more from the initial 28k new Wurmians could be held with better policies.

 

But, about server merges: New World is a game with fix max players per server, and each server is an identical copy of any other. Funnily, they initially had more troubles with launching new servers than Wurm with their hand crafted maps, despite the financial might of the giant amazon, and 2 or 3 digit million $ budgets. Their patches were catastrophic in ways Rolf managed only once :). Participation of that mainstream game dropped from nearly a million at start to about 19k, of course they had to do merges, alienating established companies and causing further decline. And that though a merge would not be more that the loss or even retention of some tactical PvP advantage (ruling regions).

 

This is foreboding for any merge in Wurm which would hurt established players even more. I could not imagine to continue playing when my server were "consolidated", my deed and all its environs, all of year long work destroyed. I would not start anew, rather look for an other game or pastime.

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18 hours ago, Ekcin said:

We have learnt that a merge is not possible now due to technical problems of code integrity. Once more I want to learn, first what kind of code differences exist, and second, whether there is a roadmap to fix them.

 

I am guessing it's PVP related, they messed up JK/MR on chaos and there's different stuff on defiance

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Personally my biggest issue with not returning to SFI when I came back and going to NFI was new lands. Xanadu is really the only server that you can go to and find a completely untouched spot for hundreds of tiles in any direction, but the server is so big that traveling on it can be a chore unless you have the best horse gear/horse/boat or a lot of time.

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