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Etherdrifter

Population Data So Far

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steam players seem to be constantly declining

the graph in above post/s for constant numbers seem 'fake'🤔

 

https://steamcharts.com/app/1179680#All

94a462b13f79239cab85edeff4306ea7.png

summer's coming.. expect few vacations.. meaning both.. breaks from the game and returning "staycationists" XD

 

me personally.. really expecting/wanting/ to see some qol/wogic fixes to common actions/mechanics/ui.. along with new content;

personally not a fan of the ditched weekly-bi-weekly updates, the new valrei monthly updates have huge buffer of time between the game news..

I'd much rather read about current changes releasing now and have random updates for the currently-developed content; can't recall last valrei post I really liked

(*but I'm often much more 'excited' for patchnotes whenever there's improved sensible commonly used things, rather than.. 1-2-5 fixes for things random players 'abused'; of course the fixes for that are great, but this gives nothing new to the 99% of the players)

 

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59 minutes ago, Finnn said:

steam players seem to be constantly declining

the graph in above post/s for constant numbers seem 'fake'🤔

 

Well non steam players will not show. But yes that graph is somewhat faked because it shows alts, while Steam only shows unique users.

 

Also interesting that Wurm Unlimited is nowadays more popular than Wurm Online Steam even with all the missing updates.

 

SeuJBa6.png

Edited by Sklo:D
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3 hours ago, Etherdrifter said:

Oh Ekcin, I'm so glad you've not changed!

7500 players logging in per day AT THE MOMENT definitely sounds suspicious; and we've already debunked it.

In terms of the old cluster, my prediction has definitely been upheld, but in terms of overall population?  Definitely not so far.

 

Of course, if we're talking population and not player count, lets talk about people with more than 3 toons logged in at the same time!  I've simply not got enough data to screen out alts, the only thing I have is personal observations that the, on average, players now have more than one toon online at the same time (we're not even going to talk about people who play on both clusters at once...).

 

I'll leave my point there and let the data continue to speak for itself - so far it's not looking too bad for May, but I may be wrong!

 

I never said that 7500 players were logging in per day at the moment. Funnily, my point when presenting the unique logins was about Samool's statement about being content with the participation, at that time at a unique login count (no matter what your bickering about whether weekly or whatever) of 21k ca. according to the graph. Speaking about having no plans for a merge then was something different from considering it all. But may I remind you what you wrote:

Quote

"Logins" - I wonder if that's login attempts, or actual logins.  No way nearly 7000 people are logging into wurm per day

 

How is there "no way", and no word about "at the moment", least by me (I scribbled an arrow into the graph picture at the moment when Samool made the statement Steveleeb cited). Rather I did say it was the case and is not "impossible" technically, even for larger numbers. So you "debunked" what nobody asserted. And the "200 players" you  predicted in November/December 2019 for the future related to all Wurm of that time, not "the old cluster", when in the posting cited you observed averages around 300-350 (in accordance with the data I have shown), only that this prediction never became true. It prove false in spring and summer before steam launch already. And mind that all data I presented are not real maxima, nor are the median values weighted, but just randomly drawn around my login times. That means that practically all of them are necessarily below daily maxima practically every day and every month (the chance that even one of the date fits one of the real peaks is very low). As I have a number of screenshots from Niarja this year, I can even prove that for a number of cases.

 

All speculations about "real population" vs alts are vain. One can only speculate with how many alts at a time players are online. Personally, I rarely log more than one alt at a time, and mostly over limited parts of my playtime (not much of a point in logging a vyn priest when mining). Wurm is not extremely alt friendly, at least when playing in parallel, be it on different boxes, or alt-tab. And btw., it is pointless and impolite to "inquire" in others' playstyle.

 

What puzzles me are the data Finn has shown (interesting, thanks for). Obviously less than half of the players, even on NFI, were using the steam client, and recent peaks reported by steam are less than a quarter of the peaks from my logs. Prolly Finn will assert that I made up the data, at least it would fit him.

 

 

Edited by Ekcin

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That's because of the 1 time purchase...

 

Imagine if ccab/gcg reconsiders making content for wu again.. and some kind of service or dlc for it to make something extra from basically same codebase.

But here we're still playing small league.. selling to existing customers, rather than expanding to new ones.

 

Servers need some work for the performance.. or a hard lock for existing players per server, as certain number makes it unplayable;  

- past a certain number maps aren't big enough to keep things without dramas; 

- retention needs another focus as there are different types of people playing the game and they have their own interests about the aspects of the game, leaving parts of that without updates for long can partially send a group into a 'burnout' after doing the same thing over and over and eventually realizing that's not fun anymore.

 

In other words.. where is/are the new dev(s) ^^, and is any of that in the goals for the future

just imo.

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We also need some code rework to actually have 40 people in local without Wurm kicking the bucket. I have a pretty good gaming pc now, purchased pre-pandemic, and have to say, whenever I see more than 40 players in local, I  can see some stutter and RAM spikes through the roof. 

 

I can only recall what it used to be for my old laptop when I saw more people in local. Wurm simply can't endure having multiple players in local after 10 years of development? Come on.

 

We need more devs to work on this stuff. And I refuse to buy the line that Game chest or ccab didn't make enough money after steam to hire at least 5 new devs to do stuff. Full time. We had momentum after steam but the inertia has been lost again.

15 hours ago, Finnn said:

personally not a fan of the ditched weekly-bi-weekly updates, the new valrei monthly updates have huge buffer of time between the game news..

 

Also not a fan of this as well.

 

It's been over a month since we heard anything official. I don't have time to look over facebook, instagram, discord, or w/e media things are posted on but communication once a month is actually the opposite of what we've all been clamoring about, aka more dev-player communication.

Edited by elentari

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Couldn't that be said with bit less drama? In fact, there are memory issues in Wurm. But I have repeatedly been in environments with over 100 characters on one place for several, sometimes many hours without crashing, e.g. public slayings, rifts, impalongs. Problems arise when traveling far for long periods of time, indeed. I further suspect that they are occurring more frequently on full graphics settings. My impression is that it has to do with Java and its well known garbage collection issues.

 

As far as I know, this problem has repeatedly been raised in the maintenance section of the forums. I would also prefer somewhat more openness and transparency from the developers' side, for this set of problems as well as that of the involuntary, and sometimes fatal disembarking during synchronisation issues, and sharp turns of vehicles, ships in particular. Keenan is the only one in the team openly and timely reporting about core reasons of problems occurring in his realm.

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@Ekcin my tone is due to the dissilusionment I feel after the steam release = more income towards the game, which should have come with the consequence of hiring more full time devs to work on the game to fix bugs and add content.


We are nearing a full year since the steam release and honestly I don't see much content released so far. Is this perhaps a variable to the declining population? I believe so.

 

The combat update didn't kick up much dirt and some things are questionable about it. I expected something close to a full combat revamp to make it more dynamic but it still seems....sluggish. The continued existence of archaic design text walls also doesn't help in my opinion.

 

As for having players in local, if we're talking about situations "in the wild" or " in the forest or desert" then yeah, the lag is minimal.

 

But try having a deed with 40 people in it and ALL the objects associated with those people : houses, forges, lamps, horses, walls upon walls, flower pots, hedges, etc. and you'll see the lag multiplied by the number of objects in local. My old deed on MRH still has this issue even if there are 10 people in local. One person active in deed doesn't cause much of a stir, but if multiple people pop local I've gotten reports of crashes and massive lag spikes. And that deed isn't even large by comparison with most freedom deeds.

 

The consequence is a limitation on the ability to actually build a city in wurm. I've never really seen a decently sized city that didn't lag like crazy. I've seen huge deeds, I've seen capitals in pvp, but never an actual city. If you recall the trailer for wurm on steam actually features quite a lot of vistas on sprawling cities, but that simply isn't in the game with the current mechanics. 

 

So if my tone is a bit "upset" it's due to not seeing significant improvement in the game after what should have been the promise of an influx of money to actual develop the game. I dont know what cut GCG takes off wurm income right now, but whatever it is, it's not healthy for Wurm development.

 

This trend will only contribute to declining player population if we don't get some big content soon and some fixes for the big issues plaguing wurm. I feel the clock ticking, demographically speaking.

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On ‎8‎/‎26‎/‎2020 at 3:51 AM, Cuddles said:

8642F7803587FB4FB796C222AB0E46A64553216A

41528AC89EEFB987F8739A88C2CC038F8A0D45DA

 

On ‎5‎/‎13‎/‎2021 at 5:12 PM, Finnn said:

me personally.. really expecting/wanting/ to see some qol/wogic fixes to common actions/mechanics/ui.. along with new content;

 

Seeing WU mods like this has me really wanting an announcement in favour of volunteer devs.

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Anyone upset in not seeing improvement in the game recently is a side effect of poor communication. Over-promising and under-delivering every few months will lead to negativity among players. I only started playing Wurm Online for the first time when the Steam servers launched, and since then have seen 3 iterations of development changes and awful communication on repeat. It follows the same trend and usually has a roughly 3-month iteration:

  • An awful, anti-consumer change is made.
  • They try to calm down the negative feedback saying "things will get better soon."
    • Or worse - they decided it was fine and claimed the feedback was not a problem without solid logic.
  • They announce something new coming around the corner to try and shift attention.
  • People forget about the anti-consumer change and get hopes up for the next update.
  • The next update launches, is underwhelming, and generally accompanies one of the aforementioned anti-consumer changes.

I guess people might think I'm just being negative here, so let me cite all 3 instances I'm referring to.

 

Priest Linking Changes - August 2020


Shortly after Steam launch, the August 10, 2020 Patch came with a significant nerf to linking between priests in order to gain skill. This is the anti-consumer change. The feedback thread is filled with attempts to put the fire out promising things will get better soon.

 

Quote

This is a short term solution due to potential abuses brought to our attention over the last week. We will be looking at the way linked priests work and how favour regeneration works and adjusting it as necessary in a coming update.

 

Another patch was made on August 11, 2020 which reduced skill gain instead of reducing favor regeneration. The nerf changing minimum favor from 10 to 20 remained, and priest linking for skilling remains ultra nerfed to this day. People were continuing to argue about it, so what better way to put out the fire than to Announce Cadence on August 15, 2020.

 

Imbue Nerfs & Moon Metal Introduction - December 2020

 

There was NFI Feedback thread on December 14, 2020 in which players discussed the current declining state of NFI and the splitting of the players among the servers. During this time, discussion about the future of the game came about and this comment was made.

 

Quote

-advertise

Our post Steam ad campaign highlighted a few issues with tracking conversions (when people purchase premium we can't tell if they came from clicking on the ads we shared). We're working on improved systems to 1) make the effects more visible, and 2) ensure we're getting the best bang for our buck.

 

-update the game more consistently 

Monthly updates are the consistent schedule we are working on, this doesn't mean new content being added every month, but that we work on a month to month basis for bugfixes, tweaks, changes and additions. These usually happen around the end of the month. They've been light on content as we prepare for our roadmap plans in 2021 however. 

 

-fix the inner works of devs/moderations aka pay an actual dev to help with the updates vs a pr guy (simply streaming for “PR purposes”, then Promoting your own personal content isn’t cool in my eyes) 

We have multiple paid developers working on the game, not just me! (As for promoting personal content I'm not sure what you mean, as I've tried to avoid mixing the two beyond mentioning that it happens)

 

-set a standard for the moderation to go off of.

Absolutely, when you feel that any moderation is biased or incorrect, we have a system to raise that issue. Simply contact the lead of that department (Astarte for CA/CM, Pandalet for FM/BM, Enki for GM). This is handled via direct escalation channels so the focus can be given there and the topic can be discussed without continuing to violate chat rules. 

 

-a lot of this can be fixed

Agree completely, and we'll continue to work on areas that improvement can happen

 

To the best of my knowledge just about none of this has been improved or resolved since the post was made. In terms of advertisement, I have not seen any increase in advertisement nor has their been any significant results from it if there has. In terms of updates, at this very moment it has been 44 days since the last update on April 1, 2021 which consists of 2 patch notes. This goes towards the inner workings of development/moderation since this doesn't seem to be a very efficient development process.

 

Despite all this, they make an announcement the next week with Valrei Internation on December 22, 2020 where rifts, runes, and imbues are coming to NFI. Little did we know that they would instead completely gut all of it when it was added on December 29, 2020. The feedback in the thread was met with solid resistance claiming that it was necessary and they didn't just ruin hundreds of euros of investment from committed players without proper compensation. A few weeks later they begin pitching the "combat overhaul" in Valrei International on January 22, 2021.

 

Combat Changes - March 2021

 

The combat overhaul is put into public testing on public testing on February 22, 2021. So many adjustments and issues were brought up in the feedback thread and were basically ignored. Some players claimed that combat had gotten significantly harder and their questions were never answered. No discussion along the lines of what was proposed, why it was or was not possible. No communication of why certain things were changed in certain ways, only a short list of changes with no context. The combat update was released on March 11, 2021. Communication on the success or failure of the combat update is basically non-existent. Follow-up changes based on how the community received it are never mentioned. The combat update wasn't even mentioned in the next VI or even the one after it. The next update is being pitched without even addressing the one that went out previously.

 

In Conclusion

 

Communicating with players is easy. The PvP Changes Feedback Thread was the last time I've seen good communication on display for Wurm Online. Treat them like human beings, don't be afraid to tackle difficult topicslay out your reasoning in plain English, and just be honest when things aren't going as planned. You'll find that they treat you like a human being as well and will give a lot more slack when things aren't meeting their expectations. You improve communication, you improve community sentiment.

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12 minutes ago, Sindusk said:

-big arse post-

I feel like this is probably the reason I feel so burned out on this game.

 

Priest linking change seems to have spurred on the current favour change, which was really well done and enjoyed by the players. However, no actual fixes or changes to the act of grinding channeling have been made, despite it being pointed out numerous times if people are willing to THROW money at alts to link with to grind it, maybe something needs to be changed to remove that need. And before you're that guy who says "well I grinded without links hurr" then cool ranch but it doesn't change there's been an issue there for a long time that really should be addressed.

Imbue change is also one that has left a rather sour taste in my mouth. Like a few, I've agreed that the current imbues were pretty broken and really needed some adjustments to not be as bonkers as they are. And anyone who knows me, knows I love skill gain and the reliance of the game on skill. However, making imbues just about worthless at higher levels was an utterly miserable move, that really hasn't benefited anyone. Mining in particular is a annoying one, because it's such a vital skill for most players that the amount of time that imbue is worth chasing for is very limited, because you'll know it's a one you need to grind. Woodcutting is also a very annoying one to chat about, because it's very difficult to have trees that are difficult enough for your skill level.

Combat overhaul certaintly didn't feel like an overhaul, though I'm sure as far as the code goes, it could be seen as that. Of course, players wont see that so it's a pointless thing to say.

 

In general it feels pointless to give feedback the majority of the time. I don't expect fast or immediate responses to issues, but it certainly leaves an impression when content can be added or changed, almost universally dumpstered by players and in the case of the imbue changes, the community themselves presenting better formulas, and then being met with radio silence or locked threads when being told "nothing is being changed"

 

I will say, I'm still very happy that animal husbandary is getting the kind of work done on it that it's long needed. And honestly, I'd be happy if this was part of the norm going forward: the fixing and expansion of systems already in the game that have long needed attention. Let's not forget about 100 rifts which I used (hilariously) to derail an entire VI thread, fatigue, tempering, 50ql hand, channeling grinding and some other issues with how the game works.

 

I don't want this post to be taken as talking smack about the devs, the updates or anything like that. This really is more just me spouting off about what my perception is, how I see it and what I feel. Maybe I just feel burned because I'm uncertain of the direction the game is going, and see nothing that I see as value or interest to myself to keep me invested.

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Content wise, I stopped seeing any new significant content after the journal goals were released. I think that was the only system that was 95% correctly implemented (except those effing rifts).


I felt I wanted to reprem when they were introduced since it actually gave me some new goals past "stay at the forge and imp X item 50 000 times". Grind in a nutshell.

 

The rest didnt have any impact on me as player. I don't enjoy playing a priest or having a priest alt, runes/imbues aren't worth it that much to me and the combat update didn't make me feel any better as a player or more skilled. It doesn't feel more fluid or "simple". I just want some statistics to know what does what damage in numbers, etc, like how most systems are designed. 

 

But when i finished all goals except do 100 rifts I burned out tbh. I did about 20 more rifts till i got to 70% done and felt wasted. Will probably reprem in a year if any new content actually gets released that makes me want to play the game. I feel I've already explored the vast majority of what wurm has to offer. 

 

At this point even logging in to do chores like feed horses or repair some lamps is still too much for me. 


Will await for something new to make me play, till then I'll be browsing the forums to see if anything worthwhile pops up. 

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27 minutes ago, elentari said:

Content wise, I stopped seeing any new significant content after the journal goals were released

Journal was added with the Let's Go Fishing update when we lost Tich in 2018 :(

Hope to have you back with us soon. This thread has me looking forward to the AH update.

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First, an announcement; I will be moving to temporary accomodation for a new Job in September, and so I will not be able to collect data reliably for that month, and will be unable to report on it as often as I'd like for some time after due to the heavy workload this new post is likely to carry.  If you'd be interested in taking over the data collection and reporting for a few months starting from September, please reach out to me and I'll be more than happy to get you set up with a script (as well as pass you a copy of the spreadsheet I use to keep track of things).

 

Second, the data itself!  Here it is, unfiltered since the last update

 

Spoiler

230,335,2021-05-06,19:0:1
265,361,2021-05-06,20:0:1
263,356,2021-05-06,21:0:1
264,361,2021-05-06,22:0:1
261,351,2021-05-06,23:0:1
240,359,2021-05-07,0:0:1
222,359,2021-05-07,1:0:1
236,353,2021-05-07,2:0:1
228,346,2021-05-07,3:0:1
186,321,2021-05-07,4:0:1
176,279,2021-05-07,5:0:2
158,252,2021-05-07,6:0:2
159,209,2021-05-07,7:0:1
137,201,2021-05-07,8:0:1
124,216,2021-05-07,9:0:1
126,235,2021-05-07,10:0:1
129,241,2021-05-07,11:0:1
147,239,2021-05-07,12:0:1
160,240,2021-05-07,13:0:1
180,239,2021-05-07,14:0:1
188,288,2021-05-07,15:0:1
210,275,2021-05-07,16:0:2
218,309,2021-05-07,17:0:2
253,341,2021-05-07,18:0:2
263,366,2021-05-07,19:0:1
280,373,2021-05-07,20:0:1
294,399,2021-05-07,21:0:1
278,376,2021-05-07,22:0:1
251,373,2021-05-07,23:0:1
242,371,2021-05-08,0:0:1
219,352,2021-05-08,1:0:1
220,366,2021-05-08,2:0:1
187,335,2021-05-08,3:0:1
170,326,2021-05-08,4:0:1
172,300,2021-05-08,5:0:1
158,285,2021-05-08,6:0:1
162,265,2021-05-08,7:0:1
176,250,2021-05-08,8:0:1
173,260,2021-05-08,9:0:1
162,267,2021-05-08,10:0:1
183,259,2021-05-08,11:0:1
194,289,2021-05-08,12:0:1
189,312,2021-05-08,13:0:1
211,328,2021-05-08,14:0:1
228,342,2021-05-08,15:0:1
249,345,2021-05-08,16:0:1
240,341,2021-05-08,17:0:1
258,367,2021-05-08,18:0:1
283,414,2021-05-08,19:0:2
319,459,2021-05-08,20:0:2
307,438,2021-05-08,21:0:1
313,441,2021-05-08,22:0:1
288,394,2021-05-08,23:0:1
272,378,2021-05-09,0:0:1
251,363,2021-05-09,1:0:1
232,355,2021-05-09,2:0:1
194,364,2021-05-09,3:0:1
171,333,2021-05-09,4:0:1
151,285,2021-05-09,5:0:1
153,267,2021-05-09,6:0:1
163,241,2021-05-09,7:0:2
148,219,2021-05-09,8:0:2
156,220,2021-05-09,9:0:1
173,229,2021-05-09,10:0:1
186,227,2021-05-09,11:0:1
179,228,2021-05-09,12:0:1
198,234,2021-05-09,13:0:1
216,252,2021-05-09,14:0:1
224,288,2021-05-09,15:0:1
251,343,2021-05-09,16:0:1
269,360,2021-05-09,17:0:1
272,401,2021-05-09,18:0:1
290,425,2021-05-09,19:0:1
299,413,2021-05-09,20:0:1
319,399,2021-05-09,21:0:1
299,378,2021-05-09,22:0:2
272,360,2021-05-09,23:0:2
229,342,2021-05-10,0:0:2
233,316,2021-05-10,1:0:1
223,307,2021-05-10,2:0:1
212,291,2021-05-10,3:0:1
192,282,2021-05-10,4:0:1
178,263,2021-05-10,5:0:1
161,235,2021-05-10,6:0:1
123,219,2021-05-10,7:0:1
139,211,2021-05-10,8:0:1
137,215,2021-05-10,9:0:2
141,211,2021-05-10,10:0:2
138,206,2021-05-10,11:0:2
145,209,2021-05-10,12:0:1
157,216,2021-05-10,13:0:1
155,235,2021-05-10,14:0:1
185,283,2021-05-10,15:0:1
192,313,2021-05-10,16:0:1
223,334,2021-05-10,17:0:1
241,339,2021-05-10,18:0:1
270,359,2021-05-10,19:0:1
276,359,2021-05-10,20:0:1
279,390,2021-05-10,21:0:1
261,357,2021-05-10,22:0:1
246,332,2021-05-10,23:0:1
220,312,2021-05-11,0:0:1
188,282,2021-05-11,1:0:2
189,269,2021-05-11,2:0:2
195,280,2021-05-11,3:0:2
186,237,2021-05-11,4:0:1
153,231,2021-05-11,5:0:1
145,219,2021-05-11,6:0:1
130,210,2021-05-11,7:0:1
132,192,2021-05-11,8:0:1
123,207,2021-05-11,9:0:1
120,210,2021-05-11,10:0:1
118,217,2021-05-11,11:0:1
129,218,2021-05-11,12:0:2
121,240,2021-05-11,13:0:2
147,263,2021-05-11,14:0:2
180,284,2021-05-11,15:0:1
182,304,2021-05-11,16:0:1
225,343,2021-05-11,17:0:1
260,349,2021-05-11,18:0:1
248,379,2021-05-11,19:0:1
273,402,2021-05-11,20:0:1
273,393,2021-05-11,21:0:1
250,373,2021-05-11,22:0:1
214,336,2021-05-11,23:0:1
210,331,2021-05-12,0:0:1
196,295,2021-05-12,1:0:1
186,282,2021-05-12,2:0:1
191,257,2021-05-12,3:0:1
165,276,2021-05-12,4:0:2
155,253,2021-05-12,5:0:2
163,215,2021-05-12,6:0:2
129,200,2021-05-12,7:0:1
148,195,2021-05-12,8:0:1
131,191,2021-05-12,9:0:1
139,201,2021-05-12,10:0:1
121,207,2021-05-12,11:0:1
138,208,2021-05-12,12:0:1
134,218,2021-05-12,13:0:1
129,236,2021-05-12,14:0:2
159,256,2021-05-12,15:0:2
173,272,2021-05-12,16:0:2
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168,211,2021-06-19,11:0:1
180,226,2021-06-19,12:0:1
193,227,2021-06-19,13:0:1
211,262,2021-06-19,14:0:1
228,288,2021-06-19,15:0:1
249,323,2021-06-19,16:0:1
267,360,2021-06-19,17:0:2
295,401,2021-06-19,18:0:2
301,398,2021-06-19,19:0:2
313,415,2021-06-19,20:0:1
345,407,2021-06-19,21:0:1
387,409,2021-06-19,22:0:1
360,383,2021-06-19,23:0:1
292,370,2021-06-20,0:0:1
238,354,2021-06-20,1:0:1
221,352,2021-06-20,2:0:1
206,336,2021-06-20,3:0:1
218,288,2021-06-20,4:0:1
221,273,2021-06-20,5:0:1
206,259,2021-06-20,6:0:1
203,261,2021-06-20,7:0:1
167,247,2021-06-20,8:0:1
174,239,2021-06-20,9:0:1
185,226,2021-06-20,10:0:1
181,247,2021-06-20,11:0:1
162,244,2021-06-20,12:0:1
196,245,2021-06-20,13:0:1
206,255,2021-06-20,14:0:1
254,315,2021-06-20,15:0:1
288,328,2021-06-20,16:0:1
300,350,2021-06-20,17:0:1
343,386,2021-06-20,18:0:1
366,385,2021-06-20,19:0:2
431,398,2021-06-20,20:0:2
326,406,2021-06-20,21:0:2
299,412,2021-06-20,22:0:1
270,390,2021-06-20,23:0:1
254,355,2021-06-21,0:0:1
205,339,2021-06-21,1:0:1
195,347,2021-06-21,2:0:1
203,342,2021-06-21,3:0:1
191,294,2021-06-21,4:0:1
171,267,2021-06-21,5:0:1
148,217,2021-06-21,6:0:1
140,203,2021-06-21,7:0:2
144,211,2021-06-21,8:0:2
142,211,2021-06-21,9:0:1
152,204,2021-06-21,10:0:1
164,211,2021-06-21,11:0:1
171,203,2021-06-21,12:0:1
191,217,2021-06-21,13:0:1
219,252,2021-06-21,14:0:1
198,275,2021-06-21,15:0:1
211,315,2021-06-21,16:0:1
217,336,2021-06-21,17:0:1
229,366,2021-06-21,18:0:1
249,377,2021-06-21,19:0:1
267,396,2021-06-21,20:0:1
260,398,2021-06-21,21:0:1
276,370,2021-06-21,22:0:2
219,364,2021-06-21,23:0:2
236,333,2021-06-22,0:0:2
213,352,2021-06-22,1:0:1
214,352,2021-06-22,2:0:1
206,345,2021-06-22,3:0:1
192,325,2021-06-22,4:0:1
172,274,2021-06-22,5:0:1
172,249,2021-06-22,6:0:1
151,214,2021-06-22,7:0:1
145,220,2021-06-22,8:0:1
143,217,2021-06-22,9:0:2
142,227,2021-06-22,10:0:2
155,237,2021-06-22,11:0:2
151,229,2021-06-22,12:0:1
161,235,2021-06-22,13:0:1
197,255,2021-06-22,14:0:1
207,299,2021-06-22,15:0:1
223,304,2021-06-22,16:0:1
227,321,2021-06-22,17:0:1
239,333,2021-06-22,18:0:1
258,358,2021-06-22,19:0:1
275,409,2021-06-22,20:0:1
291,418,2021-06-22,21:0:1
262,383,2021-06-22,22:0:1
259,356,2021-06-22,23:0:1
251,355,2021-06-23,0:0:1
218,350,2021-06-23,1:0:2
227,343,2021-06-23,2:0:2
208,321,2021-06-23,3:0:2
191,310,2021-06-23,4:0:1
173,269,2021-06-23,5:0:1
159,234,2021-06-23,6:0:1
136,212,2021-06-23,7:0:1
144,207,2021-06-23,8:0:1
136,225,2021-06-23,9:0:1
138,228,2021-06-23,10:0:1
130,232,2021-06-23,11:0:2
151,233,2021-06-23,12:0:2
146,245,2021-06-23,13:0:2
190,258,2021-06-23,14:0:1
197,293,2021-06-23,15:0:1
220,317,2021-06-23,16:0:1
220,320,2021-06-23,17:0:1
230,334,2021-06-23,18:0:1
244,315,2021-06-23,19:0:1
278,341,2021-06-23,20:0:1
271,362,2021-06-23,21:0:1
273,356,2021-06-23,22:0:1
265,254,2021-06-23,23:0:1
235,307,2021-06-24,0:0:1
210,327,2021-06-24,1:0:1
212,352,2021-06-24,2:0:1
200,338,2021-06-24,3:0:2
183,314,2021-06-24,4:0:2
165,291,2021-06-24,5:0:2
154,250,2021-06-24,6:0:1
138,213,2021-06-24,7:0:1
140,205,2021-06-24,8:0:1
137,215,2021-06-24,9:0:1
131,223,2021-06-24,10:0:1
133,220,2021-06-24,11:0:1
149,234,2021-06-24,12:0:1
148,257,2021-06-24,13:0:1
0,0,2021-06-24,14:0:2
144,240,2021-06-24,15:0:2
165,313,2021-06-24,16:0:2
221,356,2021-06-24,17:0:1
225,352,2021-06-24,18:0:1
220,347,2021-06-24,19:0:1
247,364,2021-06-24,20:0:1
244,394,2021-06-24,21:0:1
228,363,2021-06-24,22:0:1
227,357,2021-06-24,23:0:1
225,356,2021-06-25,0:0:1
220,349,2021-06-25,1:0:1
205,334,2021-06-25,2:0:1
206,324,2021-06-25,3:0:1
187,302,2021-06-25,4:0:1
146,280,2021-06-25,5:0:1
145,252,2021-06-25,6:0:2
140,209,2021-06-25,7:0:1
137,224,2021-06-25,8:0:1
138,219,2021-06-25,9:0:1
148,224,2021-06-25,10:0:1
141,231,2021-06-25,11:0:1
173,248,2021-06-25,12:0:1
180,256,2021-06-25,13:0:1
189,285,2021-06-25,14:0:1
197,301,2021-06-25,15:0:1
210,321,2021-06-25,16:0:1
218,335,2021-06-25,17:0:2
249,331,2021-06-25,18:0:2
238,333,2021-06-25,19:0:2
258,379,2021-06-25,20:0:1
251,392,2021-06-25,21:0:1
241,389,2021-06-25,22:0:1
224,354,2021-06-25,23:0:1
246,346,2021-06-26,0:0:1
241,336,2021-06-26,1:0:1
228,319,2021-06-26,2:0:1
221,315,2021-06-26,3:0:1
200,300,2021-06-26,4:0:1
180,286,2021-06-26,5:0:1
182,265,2021-06-26,6:0:1
174,245,2021-06-26,7:0:2
158,241,2021-06-26,8:0:1
138,237,2021-06-26,9:0:1
149,236,2021-06-26,10:0:1
169,248,2021-06-26,11:0:1
193,263,2021-06-26,12:0:1
213,263,2021-06-26,13:0:1
217,276,2021-06-26,14:0:1
273,321,2021-06-26,15:0:1
292,330,2021-06-26,16:0:1
289,368,2021-06-26,17:0:1
283,375,2021-06-26,18:0:1
302,365,2021-06-26,19:0:1
325,383,2021-06-26,20:0:1
347,402,2021-06-26,21:0:2
332,425,2021-06-26,22:0:2
317,402,2021-06-26,23:0:2
308,385,2021-06-27,0:0:1
266,354,2021-06-27,1:0:1
232,341,2021-06-27,2:0:1
233,363,2021-06-27,3:0:1
219,335,2021-06-27,4:0:1
185,301,2021-06-27,5:0:1
187,301,2021-06-27,6:0:1
179,263,2021-06-27,7:0:2
170,236,2021-06-27,8:0:2
170,216,2021-06-27,9:0:1
172,242,2021-06-27,10:0:1
169,250,2021-06-27,11:0:1
172,256,2021-06-27,12:0:1
185,260,2021-06-27,13:0:1
232,276,2021-06-27,14:0:1
279,317,2021-06-27,15:0:1
274,355,2021-06-27,16:0:1
297,371,2021-06-27,17:0:1
267,402,2021-06-27,18:0:1
314,409,2021-06-27,19:0:1
333,429,2021-06-27,20:0:1
358,427,2021-06-27,21:0:1
329,410,2021-06-27,22:0:2
285,393,2021-06-27,23:0:2
281,396,2021-06-28,0:0:2
271,369,2021-06-28,1:0:1
257,375,2021-06-28,2:0:1
225,324,2021-06-28,3:0:1
191,283,2021-06-28,4:0:1
148,232,2021-06-28,5:0:1
144,214,2021-06-28,6:0:1
152,181,2021-06-28,7:0:1
124,183,2021-06-28,8:0:1
122,182,2021-06-28,9:0:1
137,174,2021-06-28,10:0:2
137,200,2021-06-28,11:0:2
133,207,2021-06-28,12:0:2
138,211,2021-06-28,13:0:1
158,235,2021-06-28,14:0:1
168,251,2021-06-28,15:0:1
189,285,2021-06-28,16:0:1
205,325,2021-06-28,17:0:1
219,327,2021-06-28,18:0:1
227,347,2021-06-28,19:0:1
256,358,2021-06-28,20:0:1
273,374,2021-06-28,21:0:1
254,352,2021-06-28,22:0:1
238,341,2021-06-28,23:0:1
220,334,2021-06-29,0:0:1
218,354,2021-06-29,1:0:1
214,369,2021-06-29,2:0:2
203,327,2021-06-29,3:0:2
184,283,2021-06-29,4:0:1
158,263,2021-06-29,5:0:1
156,184,2021-06-29,6:0:1
128,175,2021-06-29,7:0:1
125,191,2021-06-29,8:0:1
139,187,2021-06-29,9:0:1
156,203,2021-06-29,10:0:1
150,198,2021-06-29,11:0:1
150,192,2021-06-29,12:0:2
156,200,2021-06-29,13:0:2
177,251,2021-06-29,14:0:2
180,270,2021-06-29,15:0:1
225,305,2021-06-29,16:0:1
220,323,2021-06-29,17:0:1
242,334,2021-06-29,18:0:1
265,338,2021-06-29,19:0:1
278,357,2021-06-29,20:0:1
278,368,2021-06-29,21:0:1
266,349,2021-06-29,22:0:1
253,310,2021-06-29,23:0:1
231,313,2021-06-30,0:0:1
221,318,2021-06-30,1:0:1
241,320,2021-06-30,2:0:1
208,343,2021-06-30,3:0:1
192,304,2021-06-30,4:0:1
165,283,2021-06-30,5:0:2
126,251,2021-06-30,6:0:2
113,217,2021-06-30,7:0:1
133,198,2021-06-30,8:0:1
123,194,2021-06-30,9:0:1
127,191,2021-06-30,10:0:1
121,202,2021-06-30,11:0:1
134,204,2021-06-30,12:0:1
142,207,2021-06-30,13:0:1
149,249,2021-06-30,14:0:1
175,290,2021-06-30,15:0:1
217,294,2021-06-30,16:0:2
214,322,2021-06-30,17:0:2
238,328,2021-06-30,18:0:1
258,354,2021-06-30,19:0:1
276,376,2021-06-30,20:0:1
279,365,2021-06-30,21:0:1
271,358,2021-06-30,22:0:1
229,330,2021-06-30,23:0:1
226,304,2021-07-01,0:0:1
213,306,2021-07-01,1:0:1
198,295,2021-07-01,2:0:1
195,264,2021-07-01,3:0:1
189,246,2021-07-01,4:0:1
150,231,2021-07-01,5:0:1
129,204,2021-07-01,6:0:1
137,197,2021-07-01,7:0:1
138,180,2021-07-01,8:0:1
138,169,2021-07-01,9:0:1
136,176,2021-07-01,10:0:1
119,182,2021-07-01,11:0:1
136,186,2021-07-01,12:0:1
141,202,2021-07-01,13:0:1
1,0,2021-07-01,14:0:1
127,176,2021-07-01,15:0:1
182,236,2021-07-01,16:0:1
188,275,2021-07-01,17:0:1
217,286,2021-07-01,18:0:2
241,307,2021-07-01,19:0:2
252,320,2021-07-01,20:0:1
262,311,2021-07-01,21:0:1
247,280,2021-07-01,22:0:1
220,309,2021-07-01,23:0:1
215,306,2021-07-02,0:0:1
202,313,2021-07-02,1:0:1
214,301,2021-07-02,2:0:1
186,303,2021-07-02,3:0:1
173,308,2021-07-02,4:0:1
144,278,2021-07-02,5:0:1
131,242,2021-07-02,6:0:1
121,207,2021-07-02,7:0:1
141,194,2021-07-02,8:0:1
128,213,2021-07-02,9:0:1
135,215,2021-07-02,10:0:1
132,201,2021-07-02,11:0:1
134,205,2021-07-02,12:0:1
152,195,2021-07-02,13:0:1
176,229,2021-07-02,14:0:1
208,292,2021-07-02,15:0:1
218,308,2021-07-02,16:0:1
227,321,2021-07-02,17:0:1
220,334,2021-07-02,18:0:1
240,337,2021-07-02,19:0:1
246,351,2021-07-02,20:0:2
243,342,2021-07-02,21:0:2
259,341,2021-07-02,22:0:2
247,322,2021-07-02,23:0:1
222,315,2021-07-03,0:0:1
224,306,2021-07-03,1:0:1
189,310,2021-07-03,2:0:1
181,308,2021-07-03,3:0:1
193,299,2021-07-03,4:0:1
167,268,2021-07-03,5:0:1
157,237,2021-07-03,6:0:1
151,215,2021-07-03,7:0:2
156,225,2021-07-03,8:0:2
142,213,2021-07-03,9:0:1
156,201,2021-07-03,10:0:1


Finally, on to the monthly report!  This time, I have delayed partly because of work, but also because a large content update came out on May 26th, and I felt it might be more interesting to explore the two months one after another.  The summary table can be seen below:

 

    OLD     NEW     TOTAL     GROWTH     OLD     NEW  
Date O-Min O-Avg O-Max N-Min N-Avg M-Max Min Average Max O-Growth N-Growth T-Growth Weekly Min Weekly Ave Weekly Max Weekly Min Weekly Ave Weekly Max
44317.00 142.00 206.67 308.00 231.00 325.79 427.00 142.00 266.23 427.00 30.54 22.75 26.65            
44318.00 140.00 216.50 313.00 248.00 342.54 465.00 140.00 279.52 465.00 9.83 16.75 13.29            
44319.00 106.00 189.25 277.00 203.00 299.00 401.00 106.00 244.13 401.00 -27.25 -43.54 -35.40            
44320.00 125.00 199.79 310.00 188.00 296.50 421.00 125.00 248.15 421.00 10.54 -2.50 4.02 0.00 187.76 313.00   305.49  
44321.00 121.00 192.71 295.00 191.00 291.29 381.00 121.00 242.00 381.00 -7.08 -5.21 -6.15            
44322.00 1.00 180.08 265.00 0.00 267.04 361.00 1.00 223.56 361.00 -12.63 -24.25 -18.44            
44323.00 124.00 201.79 294.00 201.00 299.54 399.00 124.00 250.67 399.00 21.71 32.50 27.10            
44324.00 158.00 220.96 319.00 250.00 337.75 459.00 158.00 279.35 459.00 19.17 38.21 28.69            
44325.00 148.00 222.42 319.00 219.00 315.08 425.00 148.00 268.75 425.00 1.46 -22.67 -10.60            
44326.00 123.00 197.33 279.00 206.00 284.33 390.00 123.00 240.83 390.00 -25.08 -30.75 -27.92            
44327.00 118.00 183.38 273.00 192.00 281.25 402.00 118.00 232.31 402.00 -13.96 -3.08 -8.52 1.00 199.81 319.00   296.61  
44328.00 121.00 179.46 257.00 191.00 267.13 353.00 121.00 223.29 353.00 -3.92 -14.13 -9.02            
44329.00 114.00 185.38 272.00 171.00 255.13 355.00 114.00 220.25 355.00 5.92 -12.00 -3.04            
44330.00 17.00 172.71 238.00 54.00 250.42 370.00 17.00 211.56 370.00 -12.67 -4.71 -8.69            
44331.00 147.00 230.17 397.00 192.00 287.46 398.00 147.00 258.81 398.00 57.46 37.04 47.25            
44332.00 155.00 231.04 332.00 208.00 306.21 414.00 155.00 268.63 414.00 0.88 18.75 9.81            
44333.00 118.00 202.92 290.00 178.00 273.88 382.00 118.00 238.40 382.00 -28.13 -32.33 -30.23            
44334.00 136.00 190.75 273.00 192.00 277.13 363.00 136.00 233.94 363.00 -12.17 3.25 -4.46 17.00 198.92 397.00   273.90  
44335.00 126.00 191.96 259.00 194.00 277.79 363.00 126.00 234.88 363.00 1.21 0.67 0.94            
44336.00 25.00 189.63 249.00 60.00 255.50 348.00 25.00 222.56 348.00 -2.33 -22.29 -12.31            
44337.00 148.00 194.25 261.00 184.00 267.25 353.00 148.00 230.75 353.00 4.63 11.75 8.19            
44338.00 151.00 237.63 349.00 177.00 291.88 394.00 151.00 264.75 394.00 43.38 24.63 34.00            
44339.00 179.00 247.04 320.00 203.00 308.88 400.00 179.00 277.96 400.00 9.42 17.00 13.21            
44340.00 147.00 203.17 268.00 169.00 264.08 375.00 147.00 233.63 375.00 -43.88 -44.79 -44.33            
44341.00 128.00 206.75 317.00 195.00 277.54 357.00 128.00 242.15 357.00 3.58 13.46 8.52 25.00 210.06 349.00   277.56  
44342.00 1.00 181.33 300.00 0.00 242.00 373.00 1.00 211.67 373.00 -25.42 -35.54 -30.48            
44343.00 0.00 196.88 312.00 0.00 257.75 362.00 0.00 227.31 362.00 15.54 15.75 15.65            
44344.00 0.00 187.63 291.00 0.00 245.21 400.00 0.00 216.42 400.00 -9.25 -12.54 -10.90            
44345.00 0.00 219.42 341.00 0.00 296.75 412.00 0.00 258.08 412.00 31.79 51.54 41.67            
44346.00 153.00 232.13 334.00 226.00 323.96 422.00 153.00 278.04 422.00 12.71 27.21 19.96            
44347.00 141.00 220.96 317.00 191.00 313.21 423.00 141.00 267.08 423.00 -11.17 -10.75 -10.96   Month AVG 203.61 490.04 286.43
44348.00 115.00 205.67 304.00 188.00 292.21 385.00 115.00 248.94 385.00 -15.29 -21.00 -18.15 0.00 206.29 341.00   281.58  
44349.00 129.00 197.54 301.00 185.00 284.21 373.00 129.00 240.88 373.00 -8.13 -8.00 -8.06            
44350.00 122.00 205.75 313.00 137.00 278.46 378.00 122.00 242.10 378.00 8.21 -5.75 1.23            
44351.00 147.00 222.63 296.00 194.00 296.29 428.00 147.00 259.46 428.00 16.88 17.83 17.35            
44352.00 147.00 241.88 321.00 230.00 319.75 410.00 147.00 280.81 410.00 19.25 23.46 21.35            
44353.00 163.00 242.67 346.00 224.00 322.67 435.00 163.00 282.67 435.00 0.79 2.92 1.85            
44354.00 117.00 193.58 271.00 185.00 303.33 434.00 117.00 248.46 434.00 -49.08 -19.33 -34.21            
44355.00 113.00 190.83 306.00 179.00 291.54 405.00 113.00 241.19 405.00 -2.75 -11.79 -7.27 115.00 213.55 346.00   299.46  
44356.00 128.00 198.54 302.00 187.00 293.29 379.00 128.00 245.92 379.00 7.71 1.75 4.73            
44357.00 95.00 175.67 238.00 130.00 272.42 381.00 95.00 224.04 381.00 -22.88 -20.88 -21.88            
44358.00 132.00 187.88 267.00 177.00 269.13 355.00 132.00 228.50 355.00 12.21 -3.29 4.46            
44359.00 158.00 230.96 339.00 227.00 299.25 371.00 158.00 265.10 371.00 43.08 30.13 36.60            
44360.00 171.00 253.33 359.00 208.00 303.67 419.00 171.00 278.50 419.00 22.38 4.42 13.40            
44361.00 133.00 200.75 270.00 234.00 306.54 402.00 133.00 253.65 402.00 -52.58 2.88 -24.85            
44362.00 130.00 193.58 272.00 199.00 285.21 371.00 130.00 239.40 371.00 -7.17 -21.33 -14.25 95.00 205.82 359.00   289.93  
44363.00 114.00 184.50 263.00 198.00 277.75 382.00 114.00 231.13 382.00 -9.08 -7.46 -8.27            
44364.00 0.00 181.79 265.00 0.00 265.58 350.00 0.00 223.69 350.00 -2.71 -12.17 -7.44            
44365.00 129.00 188.08 276.00 202.00 287.63 384.00 129.00 237.85 384.00 6.29 22.04 14.17            
44366.00 163.00 234.42 387.00 211.00 302.92 415.00 163.00 268.67 415.00 46.33 15.29 30.81            
44367.00 162.00 248.04 431.00 226.00 315.25 412.00 162.00 281.65 431.00 13.63 12.33 12.98            
44368.00 140.00 200.67 276.00 203.00 294.58 398.00 140.00 247.63 398.00 -47.38 -20.67 -34.02            
44369.00 142.00 203.79 291.00 214.00 301.88 418.00 142.00 252.83 418.00 3.13 7.29 5.21 0.00 205.90 431.00   292.23  
44370.00 130.00 199.83 278.00 207.00 288.08 362.00 130.00 243.96 362.00 -3.96 -13.79 -8.88            
44371.00 0.00 177.33 247.00 0.00 284.67 394.00 0.00 231.00 394.00 -22.50 -3.42 -12.96            
44372.00 137.00 194.42 258.00 209.00 301.17 392.00 137.00 247.79 392.00 17.08 16.50 16.79            
44373.00 138.00 236.21 347.00 236.00 314.46 425.00 138.00 275.33 425.00 41.79 13.29 27.54            
44374.00 169.00 242.29 358.00 216.00 328.83 429.00 169.00 285.56 429.00 6.08 14.38 10.23            
44375.00 122.00 193.63 281.00 174.00 280.25 396.00 122.00 236.94 396.00 -48.67 -48.58 -48.63            
44376.00 125.00 197.54 278.00 175.00 277.71 369.00 125.00 237.63 369.00 3.92 -2.54 0.69 0.00 205.89 358.00   296.45  
44377.00 113.00 190.96 279.00 191.00 283.79 376.00 113.00 237.38 376.00 -6.58 6.08 -0.25   Month AVG 207.16 501.24 294.08


In May we saw the old cluster amble from an average of 197 to an average of 203; not particularly noteworthy and somewhat in-keeping with the rough average of 200 players we've seen it bobbing around over the last few months.

 

The new cluster, however, saw a disastrous drop from 327 all the way down to 286; indicating that while the rate of decline for the new cluster is slowing down, it hasn't stabilised.

 

This is fairly standard news now, but here is something interesting:

 

Weekly Average on Old Cluster
Week before critter update: 198
Week of critter update: 210
Week after critter update: 206

 

Weekly Average on New Cluster
Week before critter update: 278
Week of critter update: 282
Week after critter update: 299

 

As you can see, the new update didn't impact the old cluster in any statistically significant way; no more than the old cluster's regular weekly "heartbeat" of roughly +/-5%).  However, then we got something very unusual, the next 3 weeks on the old cluster registered an average of 206 (EVERY week).  This is extremely unusual, and definitely indicates the update had SOME impact.

 

The new cluster definitely saw some growth.  Rising up to 299 the week after the update, before dropping and then rising (289, 292, 296).  This is VERY interesting, and might indicate that the new cluster's decline may have slowed overall.

 

Looking longer term, the old cluster rose to a monthly average of 207, and the new cluster also rose with it to 294.  Overall, it is clear that the content update had some impact, very minor for the old cluster, but somewhat larger for the new cluster.

 

There are several possible reasons for this, including the unpopularity of the update among older players (generally represented by the forum), which may be why the old cluster hasn't seen as much impact.


April--June is hard to predict, as some years it has dropped, in others it has risen.  However, compared to 2020 (huge drop, which might be COVID linked?), we may be tempted to suggest that this year things have fared better.  However, this is not the conclusion we draw.  Rather, we would suggest that the animal update has had, at best, a minor impact on server population and has somewhat flopped, leading to little/no real impact a month later on average player numbers.

 

 

Inference Free Players


Now, we enter the world of inference; specifically "free players"; do note that this section is largely the authors interpretation of the data and should be taken with a large block of salt.  The donkey was a feature primarily aimed at free (never premium) players.  How can we suggest this particular group?  We suggest it because donkeys are universally worse than horses when found in the wild, and players who have been premium before would likely still use horses as 21 body control is (likely) a skill many pursue when they first premium.  This skill is retained upon de-premiuming.

 

What this could be suggesting (the author certainly is!) is that wurm's "non-premium" playerbase is very small, to the point it has little to no real impact on the old cluster and only a minor one upon the new cluster.  This suggests that Wurm's free to play offering is somewhat anemic, and thus in need of solid and meaningful expansion.

 

While this has loudly been debated upon the forums, this is perhaps the first data-backed suggestion of this defect.  While it is not conclusive evidence, it certainly merits deeper investigation upon this matter.

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I see a few players who points at the real problems. In my opinion it not the skill gain, it is how you progress in game, where other games has levels, items and tokens.

The purpose of play in WO and not in WU is the other players. Since I started (may 2009) almost all changes worked towards the opposite, made it easier and easier to play alone.

 

The ideal Wurm world only has one server but back then technology made it impossible so had to add a server, deli added it immediate was popular and filled up fast so exo was added and everything was in balance. The for unknown reason cele was added, a big mistake in my opinion I never went to cele I plain ignored it in all my time. Result exo got a bad start and never got populated.

Xanadu were an experiment originally as test server it were 4 times bigger but lag killed that experiment, so size adjust but it still lagged and experiment should have been closed down, experiments failed. Ideal size is indy size for a server (same as har/cad).

 

When I started Rolf had guts to do the necessary close down two servers to make one new, people got compensated and could move items in ships. I think it is necessary to do again but maybe to late, should have done it before steam release. It is not good there is only half empty servers. 15 player on epic 4 servers they are dead and should be closed down. Wurm can only sustain on pvp cluster and best not connected to pve like chaos, it causes to many issues, just like predicted by many before wild got to chaos.

 

Creature ai have never been good and filled with many problems but worst one is the one we have now in my opinion. When I started most creatures spawn and stayed static and only a few selected roamed around. That made hunting a lot more interesting and it was something you chose and not enforced. The worst creature the hell hound is a big mistake it is dangerous for all new and huge agro and deathly attacks and roam a lot.

Like many changes in past combat system were changed because of pvp and not necessary good for pve. The combat to random.
I think the best system would be to have easier creatures near start and the further you get away the more dangerous they get and maybe have area where you cannot settle where the most dangerous live, hunting zones. Make those so you cannot solo them but need a small group. Not scheduled events like rift, I hate them, I want to play with people I chose to play with. Uniques is no challenge they attacks to weak and you can just zerk them.
More small group content for everyone. Have to ensure it not a farming target for the few.

 

The current server travel system is necessary because most servers is more or less empty (old cluster) but I think servers should be more local so you get a better community on each server. No mail between servers only travel by ships and servers like when introduced just expansion of the map into fragments, yes travel from one end to the other takes time but we max need 2-3 indy size servers.

 

This is my take on the problems but Im old school and never do other things while play Wurm unless Im not motivated and just stay in game to chat with friends. Maybe the new generations has no patience/attention span for a game like Wurm and have to watch movies next to they play instead of interact with real humans playing the game.

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Edited by Sindusk
Fix graphs missing the last week of data
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5 hours ago, Sandyar said:

When I started Rolf had guts to do the necessary close down two servers to make one new, people got compensated and could move items in ships.

 

It should be mentioned that Rolf closed down those two servers because he completely messed them up, and that's putting it lightly. He introduced PvP raiding to all PvE servers and only reverted course a few months later. By then the damage was done, thus it was decided to reset things on the PvE side. So those were very special circumstances.

 

5 hours ago, Sandyar said:

Creature ai have never been good and filled with many problems but worst one is the one we have now in my opinion. When I started most creatures spawn and stayed static and only a few selected roamed around. That made hunting a lot more interesting and it was something you chose and not enforced. The worst creature the hell hound is a big mistake it is dangerous for all new and huge agro and deathly attacks and roam a lot.

Like many changes in past combat system were changed because of pvp and not necessary good for pve. The combat to random.
I think the best system would be to have easier creatures near start and the further you get away the more dangerous they get and maybe have area where you cannot settle where the most dangerous live, hunting zones. Make those so you cannot solo them but need a small group. Not scheduled events like rift, I hate them, I want to play with people I chose to play with. Uniques is no challenge they attacks to weak and you can just zerk them.
More small group content for everyone. Have to ensure it not a farming target for the few.

 

 

When was that? Back when I started in 2007 creatures roamed, trolls even went out of their way to bash through your walls in order to kill you. These days any shed you make is generally safe, not so back then. I had to build Guard Towers around my place in order to stay safe, as Iwasn't using a deed (those were very expensive back then) and the tower guards actively killed stuff within their radius, thus creating safe areas.

Though I certainly don't disagree that areas around the starting towns should probably be safer than average. But creatures which require a small group roaming like that sounds like a bad idea as a lot of people live very far away from the starting area (read, on the coasts). The more logical place for such creatures would be deeper in land, but that's usually where the starter towns are currently located, so that poses a bit of an issue.

 

I do agree that the game could use more small group content, but roaming creatures like that on existing servers would probably be a problem. Other games generally use instanced areas for this, even Valheim recently showed how that can work quite well. In Wurm perhaps cracks could spawn in caves and on the rock layer, which you could then travel though to get to said instances. Clearing one and leaving it could cause the crack to collapse (vanish), so it could then respawn elsewhere. Perhaps portals/rifts could be player made, which you could then use to invade other realms (like jackal). So the opposite of current Rift events where our world is invaded. You could for example allow players to build such portals and then require priests to charge them with a ton of favor in order to (re)activate them. While stuff like this is usually found in more theme park mmos, it really fits sandbox mmos greatly as well when done right.

 

5 hours ago, Sandyar said:

No mail between servers only travel by ships and servers like when introduced just expansion of the map into fragments, yes travel from one end to the other takes time but we max need 2-3 indy size servers.

 

Tell me, is ship travel any fun, is it interesting in any way? Or is it just, point the thing and afk for a long time? After recently playing Valheim I can say that that game makes ship travel a lot more interesting, the atmosphere is great, the storms are incredible and the deeper areas are dangerous, especially at night. Mail isn't just great because it's convenient, it's also great because the alternative, ship travel, is a really boring waste of time.

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  On 10/7/2020 at 8:28 PM, Samool said:

Since the questions about the status of the Northern and Southern Freedom Isles clusters keep appearing, we do want to reiterate that at this point we do not plan on a merge, and it will be a long time before we will start considering one (it is not guaranteed in any case). We’re happy with how both of the clusters are working out and there seems to be a healthy population on both of them.

OMG If I owned a company that owned WURM and you told me the above quote that you were happy with barely 200-400 players per Cluster and that was a healthy player base. Your ass would be hit by the door so fast on your way out. 

Edited by Bakhita
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13 hours ago, Ecrir said:

Tell me, is ship travel any fun, is it interesting in any way?

 

Would be fun if there was any danger associated with sailing as it was in medieval times. Pirates sailing and targeting your ship would be one. Or maybe a monster that would chase you. Having leviathans similar to Valheim would also be a cutesy and frightening experience. Imagine some giant tentacles suddenly reaching for your boat and all you can see is just a giant shadow under your boat. The creature never really surfaces, it simply uses it's tentacles to stop your boat and tries to damage it. Your only chance to escape is to attack its tentacles so it moves on to easier prey. 

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11 hours ago, ArthurHawkwing said:
  On 10/7/2020 at 8:28 PM, Samool said:

Since the questions about the status of the Northern and Southern Freedom Isles clusters keep appearing, we do want to reiterate that at this point we do not plan on a merge, and it will be a long time before we will start considering one (it is not guaranteed in any case). We’re happy with how both of the clusters are working out and there seems to be a healthy population on both of them.

OMG If I owned a company that owned WURM and you told me the above quote that you were happy with barely 200-400 players per Cluster and that was a healthy player base. Your ass would be hit by the door so fast on your way out. 

Pointless babble.At the time Samool wrote this, the number of weekly unique logins was more than 3 times higher than now. I wrote this already but got angry, pointless and wrong "rebukes" on something I did not write. In fact, we do not know how "healthy" the devs or the management considers the recent situation nor whether they are mulling a merge right now. I know that even on NFI more and more players would favour it.

 

I am sure if Arthur "owned a company that owned WURM" everything would be perfect, and the population 20 times higher, all our woes addressed. After all, from all the MMO games that started since 2004 circa, so many are left and performing so much better than WO. Gimme a break.

Edited by Bakhita
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Well compared to Wurm, even ultima online has something like 350 000 players on the official servers. Daily logins at 17 k or so. Wurm isn't healthy by any definition. Changing a definition doesn't change reality. 

 

We can say "tis but a scratch" while ghost town syndrome will creep in rapidly. 

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Typical mmo.. 10k/+ players,  if the numbers are lower.. game's somehow not popular is what I've noticed.. but that obviously differs based on game type and how it operates.. subscription or not.. microtransactions or none of that.. etc..

 

I'd imagine ccab could use 10k people ^^... but hardly can imagine more than 100 per small server.. it's bound to become a <imagine any bad word>show, worst case - the game could use some kind of making trading easier and faster, and open the borders to temporary worlds, with or without option to extend the life of instances somehow. Some might wonder why... if you have too many people on your map.. you'll need to explore A LOT to find resources and to hunt... and the more people and more actives ones there are.. the tougher it's going to get.. not to mention .. it's really easy and fast to deplete resources like veins and hard to restore that, too many active people in 1 area = trouble. (too many "needs" and "wants")

 

While in other games.. it's instances and respawning everything and basically killing things for loot/doing quests or farming trips to gather planks/ore and herbs.. in wurm you need land to grow most of that.

 

Some of the things I do not get is.. why loyalty points are premium locked, you can not check the shop or spend points if you are not premium currently.. monthly skins are never to be sold again once their time's up.. the company prevents itself from making money and allowing people to spend money in it - for no reason; it's not like people often resell things bought in either shop and these shops need to sell exclusive content only available for specific time. If anything.. you get to see few people looking for specific skin months later.. only to find that nobody have stocked up on such..

 

You want exclusive things, open up the ccab-'pmk' skin shop... sell some more cart/wagon/etc skins that are unique... the better it is.. the more it sells for... and the money go back to the company.. or not exactly.. but lets hope it does.. and allows further development and growth.

 

As to steam release.. if that was massive fail with the lag.. idk, maybe next big patch could bring new people.. hopefully then the game can handle more players and more stick around.

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I agree that locking the marks shop for non premium players is just idiotic, as is the whole policy concerning "free to play". In fact, the whole basic account system is built on intimidating, molesting, punishing and abhorring players for not subbing. I played basic account just a while, 40 days while playing intensely, and got completely fed up by the molesting popups reminding you that you should be premium because some parent skill or characteristic could not be updated beyond 20.

 

In fact, that is an on shorter range unrecoverable punishment for f2p players as they have to spend even more effort later to develop parent skills or characteristics. Especially for ML and BS that can be painful as you are reaching minima for paving, riding, loading etc. later. Generally, the devs and management should be more courageous, and allow f2p til skill 50 without restrictions. That would help to build up a real free player culture and ecosystem. Such players would still buy silver, pay upkeep, eventually many of them subbing for shorter or longer periods. The higher population would help those who like more company (the "ghost town" whiners, in fact I would hope even in future not to live in crowded areas like NFI).

 

Edit: But as to the bottlenecks and lags the steam launch revealed, they have been overcome in fairly short time, and I would see the game fit to accommodate even a larger number of players than a year ago, and without similar troubles. In fact, server management, maintenance, and development done by Keenan is one if not the only field where professional and even very transparent work is done.

Edited by Ekcin

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2 hours ago, Finnn said:

If anything.. you get to see few people looking for specific skin months later.. only to find that nobody have stocked up on such..

Old marketing trick to make "limited time offers" seem important for consumers. Used to make sense when some products were limited. But it's indeed idiotic for skins since there is no limitation to it. Just an artificial decision. Having the shop with options to buy all skins so far would be a wiser move. 

 

1 hour ago, Ekcin said:

I agree that locking the marks shop for non premium players is just idiotic, as is the whole policy concerning "free to play". In fact, the whole basic account system is built on intimidating, molesting, punishing and abhorring players for not subbing. I played basic account just a while, 40 days while playing intensely, and got completely fed up by the molesting popups reminding you that you should be premium because some parent skill or characteristic could not be updated beyond 20.

It bring a (bitter) smile to my face that more and more people are wising up to the reality that the "freemium" model needs to change completely. Wurm isn't a f2p mobile game where you make millions daily with microtransactions. It's not WoW either where they have around 4 mil players. 

 

I do wonder how many thousands of players this P2P business model has turned away because free to play players realized they didn't want to spend a cent in the game due to having most of its content hidden over a pay wall. Which is also tragic since if they would have played a bit longer the content they would have found might have made them to prem in the long term. 

 

Those 1000s of people might have contributed so much for the game quality of life wise , more player interactions and more content. Players make up 90% of Wurm's content in the end. And if anything they might have acted as vectors to raise awareness and visibility to other potential customers who might have bought prem. 

 

I am really tired of the broken argument that "hurr durr you can play Wurm without spending a cent in RL." Yeah dude, you can if you're willing to dedicate a huge portion of your time working to sell bulk stuff, foraging and other things. But that isn't fun let's face it. You're not actually playing the game. You're playing a second job. Is that the type of gameplay that will attract players in the long term? It's not quality of life gameplay in any shape or form. What player really enjoys spending 12 hours foraging to get 10 silvers? Or 20 hours? Or 30 depending on how bad RNG is? 

 

Revamping the sub model to a hybrid sub + cosmetic cash shop + random stuff in the shop (such as deed improvements cosmetics maybe?) would be a better business model than "If you're not paying, enjoy the 1% content you can actually access". For a parent company (the current owners of wurm) that seems to constantly seek new monetization models in the esports - betting platform scene, it leaves my head scratching they won't even consider this simple solution or financial exercise.

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43 minutes ago, elentari said:

Old marketing trick to make "limited time offers" seem important for consumers. Used to make sense when some products were limited. But it's indeed idiotic for skins since there is no limitation to it. Just an artificial decision. Having the shop with options to buy all skins so far would be a wiser move. 

 

works with big enough player base to pay for the effort, hope I'm wrong and people really go wild and buy monthly skins like crazy, else effort to make them is not worth the income it gets.. and could generate more money by selling them as normal merc rather than exclusive

 

even with exclusive things.. some reappear, so far I haven't noticed one to reemerge from the graveyard

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On 7/5/2021 at 1:31 PM, elentari said:

Old marketing trick to make "limited time offers" seem important for consumers. Used to make sense when some products were limited. But it's indeed idiotic for skins since there is no limitation to it. Just an artificial decision. Having the shop with options to buy all skins so far would be a wiser move. 

 

It bring a (bitter) smile to my face that more and more people are wising up to the reality that the "freemium" model needs to change completely. Wurm isn't a f2p mobile game where you make millions daily with microtransactions. It's not WoW either where they have around 4 mil players. 

 

I do wonder how many thousands of players this P2P business model has turned away because free to play players realized they didn't want to spend a cent in the game due to having most of its content hidden over a pay wall. Which is also tragic since if they would have played a bit longer the content they would have found might have made them to prem in the long term. 

 

Those 1000s of people might have contributed so much for the game quality of life wise , more player interactions and more content. Players make up 90% of Wurm's content in the end. And if anything they might have acted as vectors to raise awareness and visibility to other potential customers who might have bought prem. 

 

I am really tired of the broken argument that "hurr durr you can play Wurm without spending a cent in RL." Yeah dude, you can if you're willing to dedicate a huge portion of your time working to sell bulk stuff, foraging and other things. But that isn't fun let's face it. You're not actually playing the game. You're playing a second job. Is that the type of gameplay that will attract players in the long term? It's not quality of life gameplay in any shape or form. What player really enjoys spending 12 hours foraging to get 10 silvers? Or 20 hours? Or 30 depending on how bad RNG is? 

 

Revamping the sub model to a hybrid sub + cosmetic cash shop + random stuff in the shop (such as deed improvements cosmetics maybe?) would be a better business model than "If you're not paying, enjoy the 1% content you can actually access". For a parent company (the current owners of wurm) that seems to constantly seek new monetization models in the esports - betting platform scene, it leaves my head scratching they won't even consider this simple solution or financial exercise.

 

 

Steam noob in my village alliance made 5+ gold selling blacksmith stuff last year and spent not more than his initial subscription, They don't need to add more cash shop crap. What really sucks is the few who get a paycheck literally sit on their butts here (to put it nicely) while the non-paid devs have no motivation other than passion get all the flak. I'm not going to make demands of volunteer developers which is dumb. I hate that Wurm Unlimited had taxidermy and other cool stuff that seems to just be an impossibility here for reasons unknown. If Code Club had any smarts they would up and fire every single "old guard" who seem unable, unwilling or incapable to find anyone to do anything but bare minimum. I saw less updates AFTER the steam release than before which is INSANE. 

 

I think the loss of Sindusk was the marked ending of good updates and id love to see the ones who forced an actual content and update maker out removed themselves just the same. Why do you think he keeps posting population statistics in this thread? To laugh at you all in a round-about way. They literally removed the death tab out of spite.

Edited by Jeston

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