WittleBunnBun

Taken Horse, Reward for info or safe return

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I live in Northern Cadence and between the hours of midnight and 7am CEST on Saturday, I had a break into my perimeter pens.

2 tiles away from my active deed, my temporary pens were bashed down and 4 horses (1 appaloosa, and 3 other colors) that i had forgotten to brand the night before were taken, the rest of my herd scattered all around. 

 

I am interested in information about who did this and who has my appaloosa.

Spoiler

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I have him cared for so I see he is alive in my managed animals, but I cannot located him because he is not branded. 

I also cannot put in a lost horse ticket because he was not branded. 

 

Reward 

I am willing to give 3s to anyone with viable information about who did this and where my horse is. 

 

I am willing to give 5 s to anyone that can safely return my horse to me. 

 

 

You can verify if the horse was the one taken by examining him, I am caring for him and my ingame name is BunBunn. 

I live in northern Cadence, but I have not found him in the northern region, so he might be anywhere on the map or hidden away. 
Please DM me here or in Discord about this. 

 

Happy hunting, bounty hunters :)

Edited by WittleBunnBun
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Maybe MR took it back to definace via the red tunnel?

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Unfortunately the "thief" are alloud to bash the fence down :(

Hope you get your horse back 

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Sorry to hear about your horses.  If I was on Cadence I'd give it a look around.  We had a similar situation on Harmony where an off-deed pen was broken in to and all our sheep and cattle killed.  There are just some people like that out there.

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8 minutes ago, Torrden said:

Sorry to hear about your horses.  If I was on Cadence I'd give it a look around.  We had a similar situation on Harmony where an off-deed pen was broken in to and all our sheep and cattle killed.  There are just some people like that out there.

Ya know what they say, if you want it, deed it. Such is Wurm.

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On 9/2/2020 at 2:35 PM, Melros said:

Ya know what they say, if you want it, deed it. Such is Wurm.

No, such are a few idiots on Wurm. Only because it is not forbidden by the rules, it is not right.

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i believe this could be considered griefing, the horses were cared for and on a deeds perimeter in a fence... its worth logging a support ticket at least

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7 hours ago, Evilreaper said:

i believe this could be considered griefing, the horses were cared for and on a deeds perimeter in a fence... its worth logging a support ticket at least

 

Yeah that’s what I did first thing but it’s not griefing from what the CM said. 

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How is it NOT griefing?  This is the definition of griefing according to the Game Rules:  Activities that are not constructive or with deliberate intent to do harm to others.

 

Obviously they knew that they hadn't built the yards or penned the animals.  A moment's check would show who was caring for the animal.  Bashing down a fence is the opposite of constructive and it can't be done accidentally, and was done to gain access to animals that someone else obviously had started to look after.  It certainly seems to fit the definition of griefing.

 

I have just recently cast of the shackles of deed ownership ("Property is theft, man.") and renewed my nomadic intent.  I think I will wander your way and see what I can see (could take a little while, cause I sold my boat, too).  You have pretty easy ocean access, though, so they could be anywhere.  Was there any tracking information of use?

 

 

Edited by TheTrickster
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13 minutes ago, TheTrickster said:

Bashing down a fence is the opposite of constructive

 

 

 

not according to game design.

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23 minutes ago, Kierkegaard said:

 

not according to game design.

 

Well, in my GUI it is bash>destroy X, and its effect is to implement damage to the object being bashed.  The mechanic is damage and destruction, so yes it is the opposite of constructive according to game design.  Constructive and destructive are antonyms.

 

 

 

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22 minutes ago, TheTrickster said:

 

Well, in my GUI it is bash>destroy X, and its effect is to implement damage to the object being bashed.  The mechanic is damage and destruction, so yes it is the opposite of constructive according to game design.  Constructive and destructive are antonyms.

 

 

 

Sure if you want to get technical and pvp-dictionary things, you could say that. So lets do a thought exercise by your definition of griefing and see what comes, shall we?

 

Suppose you decide to log off for the night in an empty field. I roll over and build a 1x1 with a fence around where you logged off by using pole fences. When you log back on, you find yourself stuck.

 

So you proceed to bash the fence and escape. By your definition of griefing you have just griefed me since you destroyed my fence. Is that accurate?

Edited by Angelklaine

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Dammit. Dumb phone posted and then just now deleted the whole stuff I typed. Now I dont feel like typing it again.

 

Tldr... Deed it or lose it. Take it as a learning experience and move on. Use your money to buy a new appaloosa from someone else and dont let things like these bother you. It happens, the person who took it did nothing he can be punished for, and it will only lead you to needless disappointment.

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Off deed pens should be built of stone and imped as high as possible. A 70ql or higher stone fence will require a considerable amount of time to bash.

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15 hours ago, Ekcin said:

No, such are a few idiots on Wurm. Only because it is not forbidden by the rules, it is not right.

If you want it deed it. Been the standard for ages. *Shrug* 

Not knowing how perimeter works is ones own fault, and if you know the rules then you must know its not griefing to modify a perimeter.

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25 minutes ago, Angelklaine said:

Sure if you want to get technical and pvp-dictionary things, you could say that. So lets do a thought exercise by your definition of griefing and see what comes, shall we?

 

Suppose you decide to log off for the night in an empty field. I roll over and build a 1x1 with a fence around where you logged off by using pole fences. When you log back on, you find yourself stuck.

 

So you proceed to bash the fence and escape. By your definition of griefing you have just griefed me since you destroyed my fence. Is that accurate?

 

The problem here is context, as in you seem to be responding to my latest post (about destruction being the opposite of construction) which itself was merely responding to someone else's narrow response to only the "bashing" element of what I had previously said.  The original context seems to be that the fence was bashed to gain access to animals that someone else had caught/bred and penned.  That isn't the same as your example (but who knows, it may have happened that way).   I was saying that it seemed to be both elements (not constructive and deliberate harm). The rules definition is partly at fault, as it is very broad and open to much interpretation.

 

FWIW I have been fenced in while off-line (and away from any deed).  I knocked down the lowest QL fence segment and then rebuilt it from the outside.  

 

 

16 minutes ago, Angelklaine said:

Use your money to buy a new appaloosa from someone else and dont let things like these bother you. It happens, the person who took it did nothing he can be punished for, and it will only lead you to needless disappointment

 

Good advice.  

 

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Have always considered this type of behaviour to be despicable ######, regardless of deed it or lose it apologists.

 

The fact that u can do it doesnt make it right, and as always the victim blamers come out of the wood work.

 

This is essentially pvp in a pve environment, and for the GMs to sit back and do nothing is simply pure fail.

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6 hours ago, Melros said:

If you want it deed it. Been the standard for ages. *Shrug* 

Not knowing how perimeter works is ones own fault, and if you know the rules then you must know its not griefing to modify a perimeter.

It was the standard of ruthless players, egotists, and idiots for ages to bend the rules as far as they could and can for their own advantage or just to wreak havoc. Quite a number eventually ended up with a ban, or were so isolated that they quit in frustration.

 

Such behaviour is not encouraged by the "deed it or lose it" warning which is not a call for unconstructive players to harm others. Rather it is a warning for compliant players that there are such jerks and must be counted with.

 

Fact is that the GM are very reluctant in enforcing "play nice" and anti griefing rules. That is often misunderstood as an encouragement for immature players to be a ######. In fact, it is fairly understandable that the team members shy away from policing other than in extreme situations. They are not so many that they can play nanny and inquire in every single case of misbehaviour. The players have to accept that they are mainly on their own with disciplining antisocial behaviour. It would be good to identify the perpetrator and warn others.

Edited by Ekcin
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6 hours ago, Melros said:

If you want it deed it. Been the standard for ages. *Shrug* 

Not knowing how perimeter works is ones own fault, and if you know the rules then you must know its not griefing to modify a perimeter.


I knew that the perimeter had the opportunity to be bashed. I think I had a false sense of security about it because I did the same thing in defiance and no one bashed and stole horses. From day 1 till now they still are not bashed. Then I came to PvE and within a few days it happens 2 tiles from my deed border in the perimeter. 

 

 

Edited by WittleBunnBun

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5 minutes ago, WittleBunnBun said:


I knew that the perimeter had the opportunity to be bashed. I think I had a false sense of security about it because I did the same thing in defiance and no one bashed and stole horses. From day 1 till now they still are not bashed. Then I came to PvE and within a few days it happens lol 

 

 

This is because in PVP there are *actual* consequences for "stealing" from someone. You can always build a catapult, take it to the person's deed, and level the place down in retaliation. People won't go and break into a neighbor's deed to get some lousy horses when they can be branded as troublemakers and disposed of. 

 

The same cannot be said of PVE, which is why it is a much more cancerous community. When your neighbor wrongs you, you end up living next to a dude you can't settle matters with, and until him or you move away, the enemity festers. Countless times I have seen people quit the game over what someone else did to them. This doesn't happen in PVP (other than enemy kingdoms perhaps, but that's the point of PVP) as you can always get even there without needing to go running to a GM for help. 

 

it really isn't worth it to worry over it. Water under the bridge. Don't let it bring you down.

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8 minutes ago, Angelklaine said:

This is because in PVP there are *actual* consequences for "stealing" from someone. ..

 

That is true, but carries some worrisome consequences.

 

8 minutes ago, Angelklaine said:

 

The same cannot be said of PVE, which is why it is a much more cancerous community. When your neighbor wrongs you, you end up living next to a dude you can't settle matters with, and until him or you move away, the enemity festers. Countless times I have seen people quit the game over what someone else did to them.

 

Such indeed happens. But it is not true that PvE is a "much more cancerous community". I had a one year lasting neighborhood dispute with a toxic player who did a lot to harm me and drive me out, and it was not easy. In the end, help from friends, and some relatively calm stubbornness from my side prevailed, and that player, who had also abused others e.g. by stealing a cared for horse from another player (not me) in a similar way as described in this thread, left. I had discussions in private with team members about the issues but we agreed that the chicaneries were below the level warranting a griefing complaint.

 

What is unconstructive, is the repeated encouragement of such behaviour by the "deed it or lose it" preachers. As repeatedly said, that has not to be read as a call to be a ######.

 

What helps, is carrying on with everyday's work, heeding friendships and good neighbourhood relations. The antisocial players are unable to overcome that. Their negative conduct will harm them in the end, and patience will prevail. "Sitting on the shore of the river you will watch the corpse of your enemy float away", a mideast proverb says.

 

About PvP,  in case of having the upper hand, it is of course easier to deal with such abusers. But it only works *if* you have the upper hand, and does in no way prevent overreactions, and feuds eventually driving out innocent bystanders. In every neighborhood conflict, there are always two sides, and staying righteous requires a lot of self restraint and patience. The solutions as in PvP encourage acting in a haste, overreacting, and acting injustly and cruelly oneself. Consequences may be gankfests and people driven out. The stronger is not always the better one.

 

8 minutes ago, Angelklaine said:

it really isn't worth it to worry over it. Water under the bridge. Don't let it bring you down.

 

Yes, I agree. Good point.

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Perimeter fences will decay quickly. Especially if not very high ql.  We had horses get loose on a deed next to us, the gate was gone. And that was on deed. Maybe a troll bashed or something too. Just putting in my 2 cents. 

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17 minutes ago, Lolabelle said:

Perimeter fences will decay quickly. Especially if not very high ql.  We had horses get loose on a deed next to us, the gate was gone. And that was on deed. Maybe a troll bashed or something too. Just putting in my 2 cents. 


I would say sure, but I was told it was bashed down. So I know it was not this. It was taken, hence the bounty I placed in the original post. This is my own way of trying to seek “justice” or “closure” for it.

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I'm not sure why this topic got this badly derailed but i'll chip in.

 

It is an immoral thing to bash off deed fences to take someone's horses and i hope the lost ones are found or returned.

 

The "griefing or not" by bashing fences where the system allows it, has been considered griefing in the past and there was a rule around that up until 2014 at which point it was finally removed:

https://www.wurmpedia.com/index.php/Historical:Enclosure

 

What this caused was people claiming massive areas and making them not passable (because of the fences). This was leading to having to run around "pens" or "enclosures" couple hundred tiles long.

Second downside of that rule was that deeding was overriding the enclosure rule so if someone had one without a building every 10 tiles, people could deed over it and cause even more drama and acid and work for GM team.

 

Current ruleset doesn't consider fences outside of deed a safe thing.

Current system also doesn't consider my villager bashing everything on deed to the ground because i gave that villager permission thus i agreed for him to bash anything. In the past, on one of my deeds, everyone had "drop" permissions because hey, if someone drops something on my deed and moves more than 4 tiles away, they can't pick it back up and i get a free thingie. Right? Almost. Only thing that i know was dropped on deed was a bunch of 1ql lumps in to my (back then) HQL iron BSB so from 60ql it made 42ql lumps.

Was that griefing? No, i gave everyone the permission to do this exact thing. I didn't complain, i didn't rage, i took the permission off and learned my lesson (not saying that WhiteBunBun is raging, just giving an example). 

 

There is a whole activity called "recycling", very popular and fun. Sailing/riding around the map, looking for disbanded deeds and recycling anything that's left. There is no way of telling if the place is freshly built off-deed and someone lives there or is it a decaying deed and another looter came around before and dropped a few logs and wood scraps to confuse people. Even with high archaeology skill, if the report shows that the deed fell 2 weeks ago, it doesn't mean that someone else isn't living there already, off-deed.

 

There will always be players who do those things and hoping for them to change or stop playing is not something i would count on.

 

Be safe, check your permissions, leave nothing off-deed. Fingers crossed you get your horses back.

 

 

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