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Zera

Bison Updates

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Remember to like this post if you like what you see, a +1 post is ignored by the team.


Current Observations:

It seems as though 90% of the Wurm Population will use standard Horses for the majority if not all of their needs. Those who choose to use an alternative method typically choose Hell Horses as their main mode of transportation whether it's by Horse-Back or Cart/Transport pulling.

Bison seem to receive very little love when it comes to much of anything!

 

Bison are unable to be equipped with any sort of equipment and because Horses are more popular they are rarely Bred for their Traits, making them equally hard to obtain for those of us who do prefer to use a Bison for one reason or another.

 

What I propose:

  1. Expand the Bonus a Bison receives from pulling a load to other "Large Transports" from just the wagon to also include Ship Transporter, perhaps even the Large Cart too.
    • Bison are huge, durable beasts and should be able to pull larger loads much easier than a Horse or Hell-horse for that matter.
  2. Grant Bison other Colors
    • Many new Horse Colors were added, making collecting all of the different coats an achievement for many Horse Breeders.
    • Everyone appears to have their preferred Horse Coat and prefers to obtain that particular coat when obtaining a Horse for themselves
    • Providing Bison alternative colors such as White, Black, Deep Brown, Light Brown, Grey, etc; would give Bison a variety and help add to their appeal
  3. Allow Bison to be equipped with even basic equipment
    • Horse Shoes don't make a whole lot of sense on a Bison
    • Bridles would be just as helpful on a Bison as they are for a Horse or Hell-horse. Bison are the only original intended Transportation Creature that cannot use a Bridle. (We're not counting the Bull here only because they are still "a cow")
    • Give the Large Saddle a purpose again! Allow us to put a Large Saddle on the Bison!
  4. Allow us to ride Bison
    • I was surprised to learn that Bison could in-fact not be ridden, they aren't even an option no matter what your Body Control is!
      I believe this also makes Bison less appealing to many players as Horses (of any kind) are a Swiss-army-knife of the Wurm World's transportation. Why have a Bison when your Horse can do everything a Bison can and then some?

 

Conclusion:

Bison were a wonderful addition and a great idea to be paired with the Wagon of course!

Currently the Wagon bonus is barely enough reason to make them a viable option and as is hardly worth obtaining for that purpose alone.

I feel our "Fluffy Cows" need some serious love to make them a viable option and a loved and welcome member to any Deed.

Even half of these proposed suggestions I feel would allow the Bison to "claim more real estate" on Deeds and in our daily lives than they do now.

 

We have a member of our Deed who has been playing Wurm with us for many years now and he loves his "Fluffy Cows". We are all saddened to see that he is only able to use them on his Cart and not able to be excited as the rest of us are when a new color appears in our Herd, his Bison just don't have that to offer him.

 

Remember to like this post if you like what you see, a +1 post is ignored by the team.

Edited by Zera
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+1 these are all great suggestions, I'd love to see them implemented, especially the colours!

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On 8/29/2020 at 3:47 AM, Zera said:

Expand the Bonus a Bison receives from pulling a load to other "Large Transports" from just the wagon to also include Ship Transporter, perhaps even the Large Cart too.

  • Bison are huge, durable beasts and should be able to pull larger loads much easier than a Horse or Hell-horse for that matter.

 

 

That will kill the hell horse market, and bison already have a huge bonus. 

 

On 8/29/2020 at 3:47 AM, Zera said:

Grant Bison other Colors

  • Many new Horse Colors were added, making collecting all of the different coats an achievement for many Horse Breeders.
  • Everyone appears to have their preferred Horse Coat and prefers to obtain that particular coat when obtaining a Horse for themselves
  • Providing Bison alternative colors such as White, Black, Deep Brown, Light Brown, Grey, etc; would give Bison a variety and help add to their appeal

 

 

Bison naturally do not come in grey etc., and they have an appeal, I am selling them without any problems, they are just rare, expensive and pretty hard to breed, since I started breeding them I either get all male or all female, this is pain, and they also seem to eat a lot and are a lot more prone to disease. 

 

Riding them or having gear for them would be cool. 

Edited by Platyna

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8 hours ago, Platyna said:

That will kill the hell horse market, and bison already have a huge bonus. 

People will still use Hell Horses over Bison for other reasons..
I certainly don't use Hell Horses just because they're faster in the long-run than a Horse.

 

Each creature has it's perks and it's downsides. Are you saying Bison shouldn't get their buff expanded simply because "I won't be able to sell my Hell Horses!"?
Hell Horses bite, attack and get aggressive if not tamed. Not everyone wants to bother with the taming of a Hell Horses.
Hell Horses also have a limited hitch window too!
They also "eat less than a Bison" does, you said it yourself.

So tell me, how would giving Bison a little more love as the power-houses they are, kill off the desire to have Hell Horses exactly?

8 hours ago, Platyna said:

Bison naturally do not come in grey etc.

Video-game called: Wurm
So what if "Real life" they aren't naturally grey. Hell Horses don't even exist. Same with Unicorns. Are you saying they should be removed because they aren't natural too?

 

8 hours ago, Platyna said:

and they have an appeal

So does having a Troll, Crocodile, Hellhound, Bear.... etc;
 

Always such the nay-sayer you are.

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I am at a "nay" stance because you suggested creating a creature that will be overpowered. Currently, the system is perfect - you would like a decent creature but non-aggressive - bison are for you (they DO have a bonus while dragging a wagon), but if you want a supreme speed - you need to deal with horses and their attitude. If you add the possibility of adding gear and riding, it will basically remove ANY use of horses and hell horses, everyone will use bison. This is fair and brings flavour to the game. Not to mention that is not very commonly found in games that you can use an aggressive creature for a normal work. And hell horses do not exist in nature, but they exist in Wurm, bison exist in nature. Yes, each creature currently has their advantages and disadvantages which makes the game interesting, what you suggest is going remove this nice setup. 

 

What do animal eats only matters if you don't have enchanted grass. 

 

 

Edited by Platyna

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18 minutes ago, Platyna said:

 

What do animal eats only matters if you don't have enchanted grass

Enchanted Grass doesn't last forever

 

18 minutes ago, Platyna said:

(they DO have a bonus while dragging a wagon), but if you want a supreme speed - you need to deal with horses and their attitude.

Despite Bison having that bonus on a Wagon, not many folks use Bison on that Wagon either.
Horse still dominates the playing field for many players, Hell Horse faster or not.
I don't see many folks using H-Horse over Horse simply for that speed, and because Bison are at their negatives with food consumption, still opt for the horse instead.
Bison are rarer than both of these creatures, allowing them to gain the same speed bonus on pulling larger transportation vehicles isn't going to change that by much if at all.
As you've stated already, Bison are harder to come by, despite there being breeders out there. Yet still more people use a Horse over anything else.
Granting Bison their additional Speed Bonus to pulling larger Transportation methods should put them on-par with a shoe wearing Hell Horse, as Bison are not suggested to wear shoes at all.

 

18 minutes ago, Platyna said:

If you add the possibility of adding gear and riding, it will basically remove ANY use of horses and hell horses, everyone will use bison.

I don't see this happening, considering that "Hell Horse > Horse" and yet everyone still uses Horses, don't they?

Whats more, aren't Unicorns actually the top-of-the-line? I don't think I've EVER seen anyone use a Unicorn

Whether or not the Bison is given it's bonus to all transportation or spread only to the larger modes such as Ship Transporter, Creature Transporter and NOT large-cart.
It would still be nice to see the Bison get a little more love than just their Wagon bonus. It's hardly a fair trade-off for their rarity, food consumption rate and so forth.
In the end, the Bison need a little more than the short-end-of-the-stick they've been given.

Whether you feel that their "one and only color" is because "realism" in a video-game or not. Bison CAN be in other colors, that's simply evolution. And to restrict a video-game feature because of "realism" is ridiculous, especially in Wurm.

Edited by Zera
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10 minutes ago, Platyna said:

bison are for you (they DO have a bonus while dragging a wagon),

Even with the bonus they're around 30% slower than hell horses on a wagon though, like it's not even close if you care about max speed, so how would they be overpowered? if anything hell horse carts going 40km/h and wagons getting close to that is overpowered

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29 minutes ago, Oblivionnreaver said:

Even with the bonus they're around 30% slower than hell horses on a wagon though, like it's not even close if you care about max speed, so how would they be overpowered? if anything hell horse carts going 40km/h and wagons getting close to that is overpowered

Thank you Oblivion for pointing that fact out.


Hell Horses would still trump a Bison, but with even half of these changes it would make Bison more valuable and viable for other situations than just the wagon. Which was the entire point of this thread to begin with.
 

Not to mention those of us who would prefer to see our "fluffy cows" get a little more love, flavor and usefulness than just a Wagon Bonus.

They allowed Horses and Hell Horses a few extra skins and then applied a shader to them, why not simply allow a shader to be applied to the bison too? What harm can a few more colors do?

Edited by Zera
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1 hour ago, Oblivionnreaver said:

Even with the bonus they're around 30% slower than hell horses on a wagon though, like it's not even close if you care about max speed, so how would they be overpowered? if anything hell horse carts going 40km/h and wagons getting close to that is overpowered

 

I don't know where did you get these speeds from. You can easily calculate what real values are using Kgorski's calculator. My wagon with top gear and 5 speed hells goes 30,25 km/h. 

 

If one wants pink bison or yellow, I see no problem, but I am strongly against any additional buffs, now it is well-balanced - if you own a hell horse you get a major speed buff as a reward for getting bitten, kicked, burned and spat fire on or even killed if you are not careful enough with AFKing. 

Edited by Platyna

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Okay so you wanna use a calculator to compare things, let's do so at base values. No gear, no traits, no extra bonuses.


Bison Max Speed with a Wagon is claimed to move at 12.96 km/h
That's stock bison, no equipment, no traits.

We do the same things for Hell Horse, that's Wagon at 15.84 km/h.
Non-Molten (which is the ebony equal) even.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1t5WXPVGCLBNzM1bmRPPU1mzRcvKBqChpMngDt2Rtfrg/edit?usp=sharing

So tell me, where giving the bison their "bonus" to other vehicles would kill Hell Horse market?
Especially considering that even according your Calculator Tool there, Hell Horse is still better to use than the Bison on a Wagon.

Now lets for giggle look at the comparison on a Large Cart:
Bison: 11.52 km/h
Hell Horse: 16.56

Pardon me, but I'm failing to see where and how this bison is going to overshadow your Hell Horse somehow. Especially when it doesn't even do that now with the Wagon Bonus it was "born with".

Edited by Zera

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46 minutes ago, Platyna said:

I don't know where did you get these speeds from. You can easily calculate what real values are using Kgorski's calculator. My wagon with top gear and 5 speed hells goes 30,25 km/h. 

Using the exact calculator you reference, with top QL, top Enchants, a Hell Horse Wagon moves at 30.24 and that's with normal shoes.
If I bump those shoes up in rarity, lets go all the way to Fantastic, because we want to get an idea of what the Maximum possible is for our Hell Horses here.

That's all 3 traits of pulling bonus, Molten, 99QL Shoes, 99 Cast of WoA/BotD AND they are Molten Horses. That's puts our wagon at 36 km/h.
Which a Bison cannot possibly come close to.
Even with all of it's 3 Speed Traits to pull a wagon, that Wagon caps out at 18 km/h with full traited bison, simply because they cannot even wear shoes...

Giving Bison the ability to ride and or their bonus to other vehicles in no way is going to hurt anything in existence already.
Horses and Hell Horses are already winning to competition because of the ability to wear Speed-Increasing equipment that the Bison cannot. Not to mention that they are by default faster than Bison too.
Bison at their bare minimum aren't any different than a Horse at all on a Large Cart.
Horse: 17.28 km/h (only traits, non-ebony)
Bison: 17.28 km/h


Remember, this purely Wagon checks. So this is a Bison's Wagon speed bonus it's getting here. We take that away and the Horse and Bison perform the exact same on a Large Cart.
Which is where having Bison is NOT worth having at all, because the Horse can easily surpass the Bison.
As it is right now, Bison are useless in their current state. A Horse can easily overshadow the Bison with proper gear, simply because the Bison can't be equipped with shoes.. And nothing in this suggestion thread is asking for shoes. :P

No Wagons were runed or had any rarity with anything in this calculator experiment.

Edited by Zera

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34 minutes ago, Platyna said:

I don't know where did you get these speeds from. You can easily calculate what real values are using Kgorski's calculator. My wagon with top gear and 5 speed hells goes 30,25 km/h. 

 

you don't anywhere near top gear then because my wagon went 36km/h with 95ql rare 100+woa shoes, full supreme 95ql 100woa with speed rune goes 38.88km/h according to that calculator which, as i said, is close to 40km/h

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Huge -1 to this suggestion. Bison are fine just as they are. I have no problem selling them, and much prefer them over hell horses for pulling my wagons. Even at 40 AH I can get consistent 4 speed bison and the occasional 5 speed. and nowhere, not even in fantasy comics are bison anything other than brown. just a dumb idea all around

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9 hours ago, Zera said:

Now lets for giggle look at the comparison on a Large Cart:
Bison: 11.52 km/h
Hell Horse: 16.56

 

You still do not understand, a hell horse is an aggressive, pesky creature with a bad attitude that does AoE attacks and unhitches when old plus it cannot be cared for, and what you basically want is to a non-aggressive creature to have a major speed boost. I have no even tiny problem selling bisons as they are, because they are A LOT faster than a normal horse as they are, and they are non-aggressive. Many people use them for the work that requires  staying close to your cart or wagon, if someone likes a mad speed or travels long distances they prefer hell horses, the system is perfect, no need to mess with it. 

Edited by Platyna

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5 hours ago, Platyna said:

and what you basically want is to a non-aggressive creature to have a major speed boost.

Except it isn't a major speed boost by any means.
That's what you keep missing.

You also apparently miss that Hell Horses STILL trump Bison even with their existing Wagon Bonus. I'm NOT asking that to change!

 

5 hours ago, Platyna said:

I have no even tiny problem selling bisons as they are

These are not suggestions in terms of making them more market-able. I don't know why everyone keeps referencing the market when it comes to the Bison. That is no where near what this thread is about or for.

 

6 hours ago, DaletheGood said:

and nowhere, not even in fantasy comics are bison anything other than brown

So just because no one else has done it before, Wurm shouldn't do it?
That's just ridiculous reasoning. :P

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I have no problem giving Bison a bit more flavor as options are great in a game, more choice on is always good.

 

To keep it "real" there is two types of bison in real life IIRC ( not including the bison that was bred with cattle )

The American bison and the European bison.

 

The American bison has two sub species below.

 

you have the plains bison ( smaller of the two )

 

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and the wood bison.

 

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The European bison

 

MSab82E.jpg

 

 

Maybe the different breeds could have different traits or at the very least a little different colouring.

Edited by Badvoc
correction
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I want to point out for everyone here:
"I can't sell horses/hell horses! They need more colors!" was totally not a thing...
Nor was it a thing when it was decided that Ebony/Molten coloring for these creatures would provide an additional "speed trait" either.

I wish folks would stop looking at these sorts of posts as "Solutions" and continue to vote/contest them as if they're meant to be a way to "fix something".

Did we need hitching posts for animals when fences work just fine? No
Did we need more colors for horses/h-horses? No
Did we need different tapestries, or tapestriest at all? No
What about Rugs and Animal Rugs, did we need those? No

But you know what, we have them anyway. Most of you use at least one of these things anyway.
Stop looking at threads as a means of a Need or a Solution to a problem.

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All the rest left to the pro and con points, I am absolutely for hitching bisons to ship transporters, making them less a pain due to their detrimentally low speed.

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Just now, Ekcin said:

All the rest left to the pro and con points, I am absolutely for hitching bisons to ship transporters, making them less a pain due to their detrimentally low speed.

This was one of the main reasons I had suggested the Bison's boost be expanded. To the "Large Transports" Creature Transporters and Ship Transporters are heavy, slow moving transportation systems and I never understood why the Bison didn't get their boost for these vehicles like they did for Wagons.

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i wholeheartedly agree we need to increase the functionality of the Bison in the game. I would love to see a new color or two maybe even with a speed bonus or different trait depending on their color, say maybe a White Bison could have a bonus for a higher ql of milk or with some chance for a brief affinity from drinking the milk.  and a black bison could have a speed bonus much like the Ebony Black horses do.  if the chance was there to obtain these colors of new bison by even a 20% chance i think it could make bison much more sought after and give them a new lease on the game.

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