Merumbra

When will all the B/S end

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I get it. Things aren't supposed to work a certain way. Changes have to be made. Yada, yada, yada...

 

I'm just sick and tired of it. Everything is an exploit now. Someone finds a halfway decent method to skill something and ban, nerf, hotfix, can't have the players having any fun.

 

Ya'll taken away being able to sell anything for money on the game (not that I have sold anything for money. You can check that) Keep making arbitrary changes to priests b/c not working as intended when it's been there for years. (No I never made a priest armada for unlimited favor. Can check that to in logs or where ever) Everything lately is to work with Steam.

 

It's nice to go be nostalgic on new servers. Oh this reminds me of being a newbie... But what have we actually gotten that is new. The interface lift is nice but that was more to update the game so it didn't look 2000ish to steam players. What skills? Last big skill updated was fishing in 2018. Not something meant for steam but... what I am about to say may be blaspheme, I hate the fishing changes. So leaving me with that bad taste in my mouth everything gets ramped towards steam. Jackel was a neat idea but I was burned out at that point and missed it. What have we actually gotten in the last couple of years?

 

Just let me sit in my yard and be a crotchety player that yells at everyone get off my lawn. Stop arbitrarily deciding things. Maybe put out something new and fun instead of taking away all the fun.

 

For what little it is worth, my two cents,

Merumbra

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Posted (edited)

I expressed my discontent in the thread below. It is about removal of a feature  which had no impact on the game play - no power, no skill gain, nothing besides aesthetics and ability to make nice collectible items:

 

 

I think this change was not necessary, at least not to such an extent. Then after talking with a developer via PM, he encouraged me to suggest an alternative, so I worked with a renowned dye maker for a suitable, reasonable and decent suggestion of a change:

 

 

Which was ignored by developers, despite staff saying they are open and awaiting suggestions how to fix it without complete removal of the feature.

 

I am still a big fan, I am playing, but yes, I am disappointed, I would expect that in such a small community the communication between players and the development team would look a bit different from it looks now. And that is the worst of all that - no one knows what will be removed or nerfed next. In a game where you have to spend years on your character and deed development this is a serious issue. 

 

 

 

Edited by Platyna
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I haven't seen any suggestion threads that have had any visible notice / input from staff members (Not counting CMs/CAs as I don't think they could have an impact), it'd be nice to at least have a suggestion thread get a response at some point, even if it's just a template that says they're not interested in the suggestion.

 

Maybe I haven't been around long enough to comment, but it seems like the game suffers from a lack of communication between the developers and and community, maybe it's just because of the steam launch causing issues but in the time I've been playing I've seen 2 major changes applied to the game that received so much backlash that they were removed in the next patch.

 

I haven't been here long, so I don't expect my word to count for much, but it doesn't seem like the most well-ran development relationship.

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People must remember this isn't a 100 person corporate development staff, It's a few people doing the best they can.

 

The recent exploit fixes might have been known by players for a long time, but we're a big issue when so many people were very highly skilled and new players were few. Now you have 400 people on a pvp server, and they don't want others willing to use exploits to get significant advantages. The resulting changes pve side are a by product, but also are exploited there.

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I have noticed so many good ideas in the forums get shot down because they might be exploited in some way! This is so frustrating! Why do all players have to lose out because of a few bad apples? Why can't they just find a fix or block for the potential exploits instead of denying a better game experience for all players?

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8 minutes ago, Katrat said:

I have noticed so many good ideas in the forums get shot down because they might be exploited in some way! This is so frustrating! Why do all players have to lose out because of a few bad apples? Why can't they just find a fix or block for the potential exploits instead of denying a better game experience for all players?

Because it's not that simple.

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Posted (edited)

@KelodyNo one says developers has to answer all suggestions and instantly and be on our every call. But they could be more active in the Suggestions section and a bit more talk to us about important changes before they make them. 

 

I know games where developers were doing everything community wished for and it wasn't good either. Something in between would be amazing. 

Edited by Platyna
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Posted (edited)
5 hours ago, Katrat said:

I have noticed so many good ideas in the forums get shot down because they might be exploited in some way! This is so frustrating! Why do all players have to lose out because of a few bad apples? Why can't they just find a fix or block for the potential exploits instead of denying a better game experience for all players?

Most suggestions are "shot down" because of the lack of a graphics department. I'm not sure the last time I actually saw a suggestion shot down unless it was a suggestion to revert to a system that used to exist (like fishing). They just don't comment and it dies a lingering death.

 

While the fishing change may feel like an exploit patch, a lot of effort went into the new system to make it more realistic, more in line with other Wurm activities. If you want the old system, just get yourself a bunch of nets.

Edited by Kelody
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10 hours ago, Merumbra said:

Just let me sit in my yard and be a crotchety player that yells at everyone get off my lawn.

 

I get the feeling you have pegged your niche quite well  😉

 

Development is complex, slow and takes work hours.  Hence, easy changes (like the recent change sleep bonus timeout) can happen very quickly while others probably never get out of the blocks because devs are not able to commit to the amount of time and effort needed to make them work.  Likewise, sometimes playtesting gets short shrift simply because of resourcing.  If something turns out to be game-breaking or evening skewing, then things get nudged about in an attempt to settle things in an acceptable manner.  

 

My biggest criticism development-wise is that WU has been left to die on the vine, instead of being mined for its huge potential to provide some truly excellent improvements.

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Well, exploits aren't features and should be reported and fixed, sooner rather then later.

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On 8/28/2020 at 3:21 PM, Merumbra said:

Just let me sit in my yard and be a crotchety player that yells at everyone get off my lawn.

same tbh

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On 8/28/2020 at 4:21 PM, Merumbra said:

I get it. Things aren't supposed to work a certain way. Changes have to be made. Yada, yada, yada...

 

I'm just sick and tired of it. Everything is an exploit now. Someone finds a halfway decent method to skill something and ban, nerf, hotfix, can't have the players having any fun.

 

Ya'll taken away being able to sell anything for money on the game (not that I have sold anything for money. You can check that) Keep making arbitrary changes to priests b/c not working as intended when it's been there for years. (No I never made a priest armada for unlimited favor. Can check that to in logs or where ever) Everything lately is to work with Steam.

 

It's nice to go be nostalgic on new servers. Oh this reminds me of being a newbie... But what have we actually gotten that is new. The interface lift is nice but that was more to update the game so it didn't look 2000ish to steam players. What skills? Last big skill updated was fishing in 2018. Not something meant for steam but... what I am about to say may be blaspheme, I hate the fishing changes. So leaving me with that bad taste in my mouth everything gets ramped towards steam. Jackel was a neat idea but I was burned out at that point and missed it. What have we actually gotten in the last couple of years?

 

Just let me sit in my yard and be a crotchety player that yells at everyone get off my lawn. Stop arbitrarily deciding things. Maybe put out something new and fun instead of taking away all the fun.

 

For what little it is worth, my two cents,

Merumbra

Yeah I want more stuff for the toy making skill like maybe some type of game.
 

I'm returning from 2004 but still crochety. It's all good man lol.

 

 

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Posted (edited)

Here's the way I see it...

 

Initially with this game you had Rolf and Notch. Eventually Notch of course left leaving almost everything being Rolf. Gradually more help would be brought in but it was Rolf in charge.

 

Rolf broke a lot of things, especially when he was by himself. Cave bugs would mine in ways that messed up caves. Horses would escape pens, etc. He promised things like bridge which took pretty much 10 years from initial mention to actual implementation. A lot of obvious bugs were never fixed during this time period as well. Player deities started showing up causing an imbalance of the game. WU came out causing a lot of the player base to leave for that. Just a lot of mistakes, in my opinion, were made throughout the longest part of history of this game.

 

Fast forward and Rolf sells CCAB. Now we have a team of players answering to another company. The experience of this team is kind of unknown but giving the benefit of the doubt at this point, it's at least a different group. However, as a result this group has been working on "fixing" a lot of the mistakes made when Rolf was in charge.

 

The real problem I see here is this game has some fundamental flaws from gameplay issues to bugs and exploits. I get wanting new and shiny stuff but I think there needs to be a balance with that. Fix bugs as well as add new ideas. Unfortunately, with the new ideas, not everyone's going to like it (for example, the fishing) and no matter what, someone's going to complain.

 

Simply put, it's not easy being a developer, especially in a 15+ year old game. ;)

 

Edited by Yumi
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@Pandalet, sorry Panda to tell you this but when I told a GM back in 2015/2016 about that exploit they told me "it was part of the game mechanics and it was normal." It was BS then and it's bs now. Since then I haven't bothered anymore.

 

 

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The major problem is that in a discovery game it is sometimes really hard to distinguish between what is exploit and what is an "Easter egg". So if something is in game long, is used by many players and is an "open secret" but doesn't cause any major imbalance, it should be left alone, the recent black dye removal is a good example, when it comes to channelling - I haven't seen any major problem with enchant prices - they are expensive, 1s or more for a random enchant is expensive, it is a monthly cost of a minimal deed.

 

I have developed economy systems for several RPGs, so I rarely see an unbalance when an item is too hard or too expensive, but it happens, and we have something like that in Wurm - the dragon armours - even rich players struggle to buy them. I have seen multiple ads to buy one by the richest players. 2,5-3g  is 250-300 euro, this is so far most expensive item I ever seen in an MMORPG, students in Poland have that much or less to survive a for a month.

 

Now I am training meditation, it is a frustrating design of a skill, with such Draconian interval requirements I should be able to get a skill tick every time I meditate. I am a fan, I don't mind, but if someone very new will start with meditation - they will get frustrated. And there are so many QoL annoying bugs to be fixed, they are important - older players or devoted fans will go over them, but new players will be annoyed and quit - and their wallets will go with them it is reflected by the Steam reviews.

 

There are also issues that require zero coding and also will drive people away - like contradicting and unofficial rules such as: "deed it or lose it" (which is not in the rule set) policy and the rule, that is included in official rule set - no stealing. Since deed is an optional feature there is a problem. Of course those who are willing to pay for the land always should come first. I was very surprised someone can legally break into my mine just because it is off deed (it would be different if someone deeded over it), that shouldn't be allowed on a PVE server with no stealing policy. Same as status of the deed perimeters - a perimeter should be property of a deed, now it is no-idea-what or no-mans-land but people have it on their deed form, and they feel it is there, they are also way too big, there should be an option to shrink them to 1 tile. Unclear and contradicting rules cause a lot of drama we witnessed on forum in game due to "perimeter wars" and consumes GMs time as they have to handle these. Even such a small suggestion to redact the rules, so they will not use word "multiboxing" differently than it is commonly defined was not addressed properly, it is still there, the whole line is redundant as several players pointed out, and it is confusing. 

 

It would be a lot healthier if community would feel that their voice is important is considered. 

 

But to add some sugar to this salty berry bowl, I have played many games and it is one of better ones, and it is quite amazing that it is run by such a small development team which is mostly volunteers, and hell this game is addictive. 

Edited by Platyna

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7 hours ago, Pandalet said:

As per the rules (https://forum.wurmonline.com/index.php?/topic/123123-wurm-online-rules/) please do not post exploits.  If you have information on an exploit, please contact the team directly, via /support or email (gamemods@wurmonline.com).

 

I am curious what happens with the exploits that are posted in a threads like this and then removed. So if the person doesn't "complain" it just get ignroed and burried? I felt is what happened with exploits such a s black dye, it's been mentioned few times but it took a year or two to be fixed? after being posted about on discord

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its about time we get official info on how you want us to play so we can easily distinguish between an exploit and intended. it'll take awhile to get everything, so get to work.  

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Do you really need to be told that infinitely duplicating black dye is an exploit?  There have been some murky things (fountain pans) where it's not clear, but most exploits are clearly broken.  Pretty sure staff can still see the stuff that's been removed, too, so it's not like the record is gone, it's just that you and me can't see it.

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I don't need to be told what is exploit, but people that didn't get banned for exploiting are complain now that the "feature" is being removed. I know the post it's hidden but what is done with this post if the person that posted it didn't mail it or report it as instructed is what i ask

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I kinda like the fishing changes and kinda don't. I dislike the fish mechanics for volume/weight, as well as being unable to use multiple fillets in a meal if you were to fillet the fish.

 

If it was more practical to make good meals using a large amount of fish I would probably be much happier with fishing. Instead the current mechanics would suggest if I wanted to use fish I should damage them to the right quality to fit them as their volume rises faster than weight.

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We did get something new and fun, we got new fishing mechanics.  Everyone loves that! (right?) 

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When was the last dev blog?

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On 9/1/2020 at 4:41 PM, Platyna said:

, this is so far most expensive item I ever seen in an MMORPG,

It means that you havent played much mmorpgs

some examples for you

Blessed Shield in Tibia, about 5k

Dragon Scale Legs in Tibia - 200-400 eur

some trinkets in Guild Wars 2 - 1k euro max

Islands in Second Life - most expensive one was sold for 40 or 50k eur, dont remember

Entropia - 335k, there were more expensive btw - https://www.themarysue.com/entropia-universe-item-sells-335000/

Most expensive rares in Runescape costs about 5k eur, like party hats

those are only few mmos that i had in mind, i didnt even mention Diablo or WoW. And imagine how this list would be bigger if I included not MMOs like Team Fortress 2, CS:GO or DOTA

 

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There's a few Beta Tester reward items in Rocket League that go for more than $1000 on the market. It's not an MMO (or an RPG), but it's comparable, IMO. 

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