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FireHeart

Need a Solution to abuse of passenger of pets, which allows players get out of combat and hop between tiles avoiding damage

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Need a Solution to abuse of passenger of pets, which allows players get out of combat and hop between tiles avoiding damage.

If you watch the video at the time stamp, chev is able to avoid damage for long periods of time due to passenger his croc, also he used it multiple times throughout the fight to get out of combat and regain stam when he had none, if he didn't have the mechanic he would of died because he stammed out like a noob. 

 

My only Idea I have currently is to put a 5-10 second cool down between passenger. 

 

 

 

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timer to mount

open your self up to attacks while mounting

unequippes weapon and shield to mount

slow moves you onto mount preventing movement temporarily.

 

to name a few options

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I suggest Mounting while an enemy in local instantly kills the thing you tried to mount on,

Edited by steamedlunch

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4 minutes ago, steamedlunch said:

I suggest Mounting while an enemy in local instantly kills the thing you tried to mount on,

Nah, you want people to still use pets and be able to ride them, just not to abuse them to get in and out of combat

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Isn't that a bit of whining that someone prove more diligent and smarter than you? Now trying to steal the fruits of her/his efforts by changing game mechanics?

 

Having a mount led in combat as a "risk insurance" to bail out is common and widespread tactic in PvP and PvE, and it is not always easy. Number of leadable mounts in PvP has already been reduced to avoid overly advantage. Legitimate tactic is to target and kill opponents' mounts, mounted and led ones equally.

 

Taming a croc is one of the most difficult taming activities, and crocs lose loyalty fast. Attacking them lowers loyalty in addition, and may make them equally too, or even more vulnerable than e.g. well armoured barded horses.

 

It is up to the devs to decide whether the use of a croc in PvP combat is breaking balance, and feel free to demand a change. Defaming players using this mechanic is certainly a breach of forum netiquette.

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1 hour ago, Ekcin said:

Isn't that a bit of whining that someone prove more diligent and smarter than you? Now trying to steal the fruits of her/his efforts by changing game mechanics?

 

Having a mount led in combat as a "risk insurance" to bail out is common and widespread tactic in PvP and PvE, and it is not always easy. Number of leadable mounts in PvP has already been reduced to avoid overly advantage. Legitimate tactic is to target and kill opponents' mounts, mounted and led ones equally.

 

Taming a croc is one of the most difficult taming activities, and crocs lose loyalty fast. Attacking them lowers loyalty in addition, and may make them equally too, or even more vulnerable than e.g. well armoured barded horses.

 

It is up to the devs to decide whether the use of a croc in PvP combat is breaking balance, and feel free to demand a change. Defaming players using this mechanic is certainly a breach of forum netiquette.

Obiouvsly you dont know HotS rebirth spell, so taming skill is irrelevant here. Making your comment complete irrelevant.

 

You should not be able to embark and disembark to lose the swing timers of enemy players repeatedly.

 

 

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1 hour ago, Ekcin said:

 

 

Taming a croc is one of the most difficult taming activities, and crocs lose loyalty fast. Attacking them lowers loyalty in addition, and may make them equally too, or even more vulnerable than e.g. well armoured barded horses.

 

It is up to the devs to decide whether the use of a croc in PvP combat is breaking balance, and feel free to demand a change. Defaming players using this mechanic is certainly a breach of forum netiquette.

I think you are misinformed, its a bl priest so its a zombie croc. I mean I think people who try to think outside the box is great, but when a mechanic allows you to bypass getting targeted and regain stam over and over again where most situations it wouldn't happen. Its a broken mechanic. 

Also explain to me how I am defaming someone? I just stated what he did, didn't call him exploiting or anything, just said hes using a game mechanic thats lame and the devs need to look at. Also I think hes the only person who records that uses this mechanic so used his video so the devs can see how the mechanic interacts in a pvp fight.

Edited by FireHeart

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The issue isn't the fact he can ride the mount. The issue is it resets all combat. Meaning if he does this every 2-3 seconds no one can land a swing timer.

 

There is also the added annoyance of he can teleport around in a 3x3 without punishment. He can get 2 tiles of distance in under a second, where you need spend time RELOCATING him and then catching up. It's disorientating.

 

If combat stayed active you could just sit on the centre tile and wait for the string timer to land providing you have a weapon with range. 

 

We had one of our players throw their weapon because it was the only "instant" damage we could use.

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the mechanic is broken lol. however, why nerfing something again and again? wouldnt it be better adding a spell to Vynora named "erase" that would erase the zombie when cast upon? tamed, charmed animals loose loyalty very fast when attacked anyways, but there is nothing vs zombies. they just last. Add a spell to erase said zombies. not only Vyn would add some use ito pvp, but this would also cure hopping issue like that

25 minutes ago, Moondevil said:

We had one of our players throw their weapon because it was the only "instant" damage we could use.

 

Why didnt you just short bowed?

Edited by Skatyna

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3 minutes ago, Skatyna said:

wouldnt it be better adding a spell to Vynora named "erase" that would erase the zombie when cast upon? tamed, charmed animals loose loyalty very fast when attacked anyways, but there is nothing vs zombies. they just last. Add a spell to erase said zombies.

that spell is called genesis and its already in the game

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4 minutes ago, Oblivionnreaver said:

that spell is called genesis and its already in the game

 

damn didnt know genesys worked like that on zombies.. ty for info.  so thats even better, there is a spell already to get rid of the passenger hopping mount. 

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20 minutes ago, Skatyna said:

 

Why didnt you just short bowed?

There's a 4 second minimum timer with skill. pretty much the same amount of time for a swing. I was told actions on a embarking player also reset (I think the timer still goes through but nothing happens) so wouldn't have helped anyway.

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Again, all those details (thanks OR and others) are interesting and amusing. The original behaviour of the thread starter to start a "name and shame" flame thread is not.

 

Whether or not the mechanic is broken is certainly subject to discussion, and finally decision by the devs and GM. The player in question did nothing wrong, did not "abuse" anything, but used a mechanic in place in game, as OR rightly stated, outplaying his/her opponents. If that mechanic is considered inappropriate, an exploit ticket could have been filed letting the team decide whether it is acceptable, an exploit, or at least balance breaking and in need to be changed. If it is considered buggy, it might have been reported in client or server (think the latter) bug forums. If it is just considered undesirable, a suggestion for nerf/removal would have been appropriate.

 

None of the subsequent attempts of justification and excuse changes anything about that misconduct.

Edited by Ekcin

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What about not allowing mounting while in combat? 

 

Pets work for this current system due to not having to lead (which requires being in combat) 

 

(also moved to suggestions & ideas)

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6 minutes ago, Retrograde said:

What about not allowing mounting while in combat? 

 

Pets work for this current system due to not having to lead (which requires being in combat) 

 

(also moved to suggestions & ideas)

 

I don't think this fully solves it, but at this point I'm pretty sure people would take anything over the current iteration. +1 from me.

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12 minutes ago, Retrograde said:

What about not allowing mounting while in combat? 

 

Pets work for this current system due to not having to lead (which requires being in combat) 

 

(also moved to suggestions & ideas)

Why not just make it so pets have to be lead to be ridden? 

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10 minutes ago, Retrograde said:

What about not allowing mounting while in combat? 

 

If you do go that route, make sure its ONLY for defiance server and none others.. as i well believe the way it would be done it would prevent you mounting on even when mob attacks you.. that would severely impact the rest of the servers where mount hopping isnt even used.. Alternatively, add a timer mounting on a pet as ppl ask, but leave as it is on leadable animals.. 

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14 minutes ago, Retrograde said:

What about not allowing mounting while in combat? 

 

Pets work for this current system due to not having to lead (which requires being in combat) 

 

(also moved to suggestions & ideas)



I was floating this idea; it'd basically make "backup" horses much less useful in combat and make combat much riskier, but i'm not entirely sure if that's a world ending change. Definitely something that should be discussed before being implemented though.

Best suggestion to nerf this specifically without nerfing other things is to just make it so you still need to lead a pet to mount it.

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8 minutes ago, BrokenSanity said:

Why not just make it so pets have to be lead to be ridden? 

this.

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1 minute ago, Zekezor said:

  

9 minutes ago, BrokenSanity said:

Why not just make it so pets have to be lead to be ridden? 

 

this.

 

Edited by Joemog
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31 minutes ago, BrokenSanity said:

Why not just make it so pets have to be lead to be ridden? 

A simple solution 

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I propose a 15 second cooldown on mounting after you've unmounted twice within a short time.

 

So allow people to change mounts once within a short time. If you unmount again soon after that, you should be on a cooldown. 

 

This way no pet or legitimate mechanics get affected. Only repeatedly jumping on mounts is prevented.

 

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Please just remove mounting while in combat. 
It's good all around fix. There were lots of times the first couple weeks of defiance(and likely still are) when skilled players came to harass groups of newbs easily with horse, and this would be far less doable if they couldn't just yeet back onto a horse while being swarmed.

Just one example to add onto the current mount hopping abuse. 

Getting off your mount in combat or knocked off your mount is risky, should be risky, and should have consequences.  

Remove mounting while in combat. 

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I agree with Zeke and others.

So, the specific method being  used here is to mount as "passenger".  This bypasses the BC requirement to actually drive it.  There are a few options here:

 

1.  Remove passenger seat from pets. 

           Pro: Solves current problem easily. 

          Con: This will just cause the problem to re-manifest once people get the BC to actually drive crocs etc.

 

2.  Make it so you have to lead pets to mount, even as passenger.  

          Pro:  Solves current problem easily and permanently.

          Con:  If you want to retain the ability to mount as a passenger, if someone is already riding the pet and wants someone else to get on, would be weird to have to unmount, lead, then let friend mount as passenger, THEN get back on as driver.  Seems like a super minor issue (Do people actually mount pets as passenger for normal riding use?)

 

3.  Make it so pet cannot be mounted in combat.

         Pro:  Solves current problem.  Might be much more difficult to implement code-wise to separate pets and generic horses.

        Con:  Pets would ONLY be viable as a combat companion and not really as a backup mount.  Even though crocs etc are slow, they could still be useful vs being on foot in combat.

 

4.  Make it so pets NOR horses can be mounted in combat.

         Pro:  Solves current problem easily.

        Con:  OMG this would be a massive change that would extremely impact all wurm activities.  Imagine how many times you would end up off your horse, leading it (like woodcutting etc), when a mob starts to attack you and you CANNOT MOUNT IT!  Literally any activity you do off-deed that you cannot do while mounted will be a much larger risk.  Lots more deaths.  

Edited by bregga
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