Retrograde

Valrei International. Cadence Rising

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Posted (edited)

I support a new 16x16 now only because I think the old servers need to be shutdown at the time of merge. I think 2 more 16x16 need to be made at time of merge and the old cluster should be killed completely, they will never come back in population unless intensives are made for them. I think the plan needs to be put in place now and a soft date set for merger now so that people on the old clusters have time to plan and know what is coming. Xanadu is so large that the Devs have stated that they pretty much cant fix the lag.

Edited by spuddles
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3 minutes ago, spuddles said:

I support a new 16x16 now only because I think the old servers need to be shutdown at the time of merge. I think 2 more 16x16 need to be made at time of merge and the old cluster should be killed completely, they will never come back in population unless intensives are made for them. I think the plan needs to be put in place now and a soft date set for merger now so that people on the old clusters have time to plan and know what is coming. Xanadu is so large that the Devs have stated that they pretty much cant fix the lag.

Talk about a terrible idea on top of adding another 16x16

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33 minutes ago, HareKrsna said:

So im a brand new player to this game, it took me a few days just to figure out the UI and mess around with the novelty of things.  I, and probably many other new players, didn't realize how competitive finding desireable land for a deed would be.  I was actually hoping for a new server release, it's taken me this long just to really grasp the basics of the game.  It's crazy to see how much progress has been made already on the new servers, even though it hasn't been that long.  I'll personally be moving to the new server, I don't have much attachment to my characters since I've spent much of my time learning and messing around.  In terms of finding even decent real estate on the new servers, I'm just too far behind the curve.  Just wanted to add my 2 cents.

you should be able to take your character, just make a row boat asap .  or be near the starter towns they may make a portal again.   glad your sticking with it.    also try to have forage for cotton asap. you may need to heal while running for new land. but a boat is best bet. if you have time a sail boat will be much faster

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Seeing southern freedomers beg for a merge like people in epic and chaos were is such an ironic twist of fate, i dont think anyone still living in the old servers realize that north and south are separated not for the new player's sake but also for the old players, if both were together the newbies would faaar outnumber the old players and would demand things that would ruin the work the old players have made, like wipes and such. Southern is separate because otherwise it wouldnt need to exist anymore. If the devs actually plan promotions, then the time where they are forced to do as the 300 online players of all these servers say, is over.

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Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, Samool said:

I outlined our goal with releasing this new server earlier in this thread.

 

I personally cant add the maths here anyways.. ever since the steam start the online peaked to 2k players, a week later 2.2k and it sits at that for 2 weeks now. You are saying new ppl keep coming in, but since the peak is the same it means the older ones are gone. So if they are gone - that frees up their claimed lands for others..  Sure, if the total online count raised by 100 a day or so, reaching something like 3k by now - another server would be a must, but as i said.. it doesnt peak no more.. least from a player perspective

Edited by Skatyna

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Posted (edited)
37 minutes ago, Skatyna said:

I personally cant add the maths here anyways.. ever since the steam start the online peaked to 2k players, a week later 2.2k and it sits at that for 2 weeks now. You are saying new ppl keep coming in, but since the peak is the same it means the older ones are gone. So if they are gone - that frees up their claimed lands for others..  

 

Not necessarily. Many people took vacation time from work the first few weeks of the new server, so that they could spend many more hours scouting and early terraforming.  People who used to play 8-12 hours 7 days a week maybe settled down to 8 daily hours over 5 days, people who played 5-7 hours a day settled down to 3 hours daily.

 

There can still be more total active players now than a few weeks ago, while the same number online at any given time, if everyone is now settling into a routine. It doesn't mean people are not leaving the game. I am sure some are -- but it sounds like new players are more than replacing those. We still need more space for more players and more deeds.

 

 

Edited by Brash_Endeavors
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1 hour ago, spuddles said:

I support a new 16x16 now only because I think the old servers need to be shutdown at the time of merge. I think 2 more 16x16 need to be made at time of merge and the old cluster should be killed completely, they will never come back in population unless intensives are made for them. I think the plan needs to be put in place now and a soft date set for merger now so that people on the old clusters have time to plan and know what is coming. Xanadu is so large that the Devs have stated that they pretty much cant fix the lag.

People keep playing wurm because the old servers don't get killed off. Because they know their progress will stay. Because they know they can come back in a year or two, and see what happened, and pick up the pieces. 

 

Here's a quick guide to whether or not you should delete the old servers, and force everyone to merge into the new servers (as a company):

Do you want to reduce your total revenue, my removing well over a thousand paid-for deeds, and a hefty number of subscriptions of players who will certainly unsub from having their maps they like playing on deleted? If yes, delete the old servers. 

 

Do you want to ruin the fledging economy and take away the feel of starting fresh for many people on the new servers, while simultaneously destroying the infrastructure long term vets have built for themselves? If yes, delete the old servers and merge the players.

Do you want to generate a ton of really bad publicity for the game, tanking reviews even lower, and causing players to feel really uncertain about the permanence of what they build? If yes, delete the old servers. 

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Posted (edited)

Steam launch player here. I'm on Melody and it's no where near full. Why even do this? The player population has significantly dropped off since Steam launch with many deeds are going abandon and soon to be vacant land. Basing this new launch off of deed count and not actual people playing, is a huge mistake. Code Club, you can only launch on Steam once. Don't get ahead of yourselves. Harmony, don't be naive enough to jump to this new server.

 

gOPWvab.jpg

Edited by Zander
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The purpose of Melody was to direct bloat away from Harmony, seeing as Melody is no where near full and deeds are decaying daily, all this is going to do is spread the new active player base thin.

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Posted (edited)

I agree with Arronicus.

 

I remember when I was a brand new Wurm player, a decade ago,  living in a small remote village up in the mountains of western Indy. The deed mayor took me out on an exploration adventure, and we ended up trapped up in the mountains and hopelessly lost for hours, wandering blindly through old mines that connected to drop shafts that lead to other honeycombed old mines. I was new, but Indy by then was at least a year old, and to me as a new player it felt ancient. We kept going in circles trying to find a way home, and kept coming back to this one large finely built village buried deep in the heart of the mountains, Valley of the Gods, although we did not see anyone there at the time. It stood there by itself, proudly in the middle of nowhere.

 

Five years later, I was looking for a place to start a deed and found a nice location that apparently used to be Dannyiron's old Wurm Academy. One day I went exploring out to the west, and was surprised to find myself eventually, right back at the Valley of the Gods again. I still saw no one there. It made me happy to see that deed was still there five years later. It felt like Wurm had real historical roots.

 

Then, barely a month ago, just before the opening of Harmony, I was out in the Samling area again, getting familiar with old haunts. I had a little shack along the bay and was putting in some crops to stay fed. And who passed by and introduced himself but a neighbor, a player named Tronn, who was the actual  mayor of Valley of the Gods! Tronn offered me a couple of nice horses and a decent hatchet, and wanted to make sure that as an apparent "new" player, I was surviving ok.  And he was not just visiting, he was planning out a large new structure on his deed. We went up there to get the horses. For over ten years, he kept coming back to that deed whenever he could. Maybe not daily, maybe sometimes with long breaks. But he paid for that deed every month, and paid his monthly subscriptions,  and it would not surprise me if he continued to pay for deed and subscriptions for another ten years. 

 

There are deeds like that all over the southern servers, deeds full of memories where people keep paying the upkeep, logging in when their real lives give them a chance, making a little more progress long after others complain there is nothing left to do. Maybe not every day anymore. Life got busy, but when they had the time -- Wurm was still waiting. And their homes there waiting for them. A restful respite from the real world. And they kept Wurm financially afloat long after other players came and went in surging tides.

 

Rolf said those servers will stay up as long as those people want to keep playing there. Good for Rolf!

 

Worst possible move the current dev team could ever make, would be to close the old servers because a few players wanted to force everyone into smaller, denser areas.

 

 

Edited by Brash_Endeavors
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We have several tools at our disposal, including dumps that cover ALL deeds. This data, plus the growing reviews that finding suitable land is becoming more and more difficult as we continue to push to grow Wurm tells us that we need to be future-proofing. 

 

Wurm servers need a specific density to flourish, and that is hurt by players being spread out too far, but also by being too tightly packed together. The current density and growth mean we need to have more freely available land for players to travel, hunt, and skill without stumbling across other deeds. 

 

To clarify, Harmony has more settlements than Xanadu, which is 4x its size, and melody has almost as many settlements as Independence.

 

Both servers are reaching a point where finding suitable land for deeding is growing tough and discouraging new players. 
 

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20 minutes ago, Retrograde said:

We have several tools at our disposal, including dumps that cover ALL deeds. This data, plus the growing reviews that finding suitable land is becoming more and more difficult as we continue to push to grow Wurm tells us that we need to be future-proofing. 

 

Wurm servers need a specific density to flourish, and that is hurt by players being spread out too far, but also by being too tightly packed together. The current density and growth mean we need to have more freely available land for players to travel, hunt, and skill without stumbling across other deeds. 

 

To clarify, Harmony has more settlements than Xanadu, which is 4x its size, and melody has almost as many settlements as Independence.

 

Both servers are reaching a point where finding suitable land for deeding is growing tough and discouraging new players. 
 


This is interesting, curious, can you guys see like a "hot map" of where deeds are? I know people are complaining about finding coastal areas to settle, I'm just curious to see how vastly spread out people are.

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1 minute ago, Erowynn said:


This is interesting, curious, can you guys see like a "hot map" of where deeds are? I know people are complaining about finding coastal areas to settle, I'm just curious to see how vastly spread out people are.

Yes, every deed and its size is marked on the map, we can see how dense some areas are. 

 

We can't share this as it includes other sensitive information and players prefer to be opt in in their deed showing, but the map is so full that even I'm surprised

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3 minutes ago, Retrograde said:

Yes, every deed and its size is marked on the map, we can see how dense some areas are. 

 

We can't share this as it includes other sensitive information and players prefer to be opt in in their deed showing, but the map is so full that even I'm surprised


That's really cool, can you disclose total percentage of land take by deeds?

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8 minutes ago, Retrograde said:

Yes, every deed and its size is marked on the map, we can see how dense some areas are. 

 

We can't share this as it includes other sensitive information and players prefer to be opt in in their deed showing, but the map is so full that even I'm surprised

i understand not showing exact deed locations, but have you considered maybe something in the starter town that shows "the northwest has lots of deeds, the south is sparsely populated" or maybe even a teleporter to a mini-starter deed in unpopulated areas that can be added/removed by gm's as the server population changes density if getting newbies to undeeded lands is important? a day after launch everything within a km of starter is deeded.

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I'd be curious to know that.  And it wouldn't risk anyone's deed locations.  As we add more servers with more land to be held, coming from a xanadu native, I'm worried about my home on xanadu staying relevant.  The old cluster should stay imho. Can I be secure in my home being okay throughout this?  I'm enjoying the new servers so far, but I disagree with those people who call for the old cluster to be shut down.

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17 minutes ago, Erowynn said:

Wurm servers need a specific density to flourish, and that is hurt by players being spread out too far, but also by being too tightly packed together. The current density and growth mean we need to have more freely available land for players to travel, hunt, and skill without stumbling across other deeds. 


I'm concerned with the phraseology densely packed, are we talking about the whole map or just the water areas? I think the messaging should be clarified because I know for certain that there are massive areas on melody that have no been touched. I get it that people are looking for coastal areas and that's fine. In general I'm not apposed to a new island that serves that purpose. Just wished things were crystal clear as far as the motives go.

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Posted (edited)

I understand the desire to provide more land for new players to deed however much of the currently deeded land on melody also appears to be opening up shortly due to the influx of players who purchased the bundled premium and silver who have already abandoned their deeds to decay. I'd argue that Harmony having more settlements than Xanadu is more indicative that Xanadu should have 4x the activity of Harmony to facilitate its size and feel like an active region, rather than an indicator that Harmony needs to have players spread elsewhere. Which again is a role I still think should be supported by Melody. Or at most just make another 8x8 server if you absolutely must acquire new player deed space. In the long run however its going to be beneficial to maintain population so that new players don't feel as though they're joining a ghost town at the cost of short term deed space to support the initial player surge.

Edited by Vilgrith
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2 minutes ago, Vilgrith said:

I understand the desire to provide more land for new players to deed however much of the currently deeded land on melody also appears to be opening up shortly due to the influx of players who purchased the bundled premium and silver who have already abandoned their deeds to decay.

 

This exactly right here.

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I play on low population servers because I prefer it, hth.

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Posted (edited)

To give a little insight to anyone wondering about the reasoning behind this, here is two direct quotes from Samool, long time wurm developer:

Quote

 

While I agree in general that too many servers is a detrimental thing, we have looked at the deed maps of Harmony and Melody and found the only unclaimed land on Harmony is some areas deeper inland, and Melody has close to none at all, other than in certain undesired biomes.

This combined with the fact that we continue to have a lot of new players entering the game, and our further plans for promotion in the near future, we needed a server in the Northern Freedom Isles cluster that will actually be able to handle those players, instead of making everyone frustrated on not being able to find free land.

 

 

AND

Quote

 

... I'm not sure why it's assumed to be the alternative to fixing lag - we have been including lag fixes in almost every update since the release, the larger fixes to that ending up in patch notes too, and we're noticing a large reduction in server lag even with 950 players online on Harmony today.

We'll continue to work on that and you should see more improvements on that end shortly, but our intention with releasing the new servers isn't to spread the population to avoid lag - it's just to give people room to play how they want to.

 

 

TL:DR; This is because

  • CCAB is still seeing large numbers of new players showing up
  • is anticipating even more new players with initiatives coming later this month
  • Practically all coastal areas on Harmony have been deeded over and practically all desirable terrain on Melody has been deeded over, leaving new players VERY limited options for where to settle themselves, if they don't want to join an existing deed.

 

 

Edited by Zander
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1 hour ago, Erowynn said:


I'm concerned with the phraseology densely packed, are we talking about the whole map or just the water areas? I think the messaging should be clarified because I know for certain that there are massive areas on melody that have no been touched. I get it that people are looking for coastal areas and that's fine. In general I'm not apposed to a new island that serves that purpose. Just wished things were crystal clear as far as the motives go.

Well, I would say, chill. Those loudly campaigning for closure of the old servers are mostly trolls, frustrated ex-players with an axe to grind against the comm and the team, or clueless but arrogant newcomers without any knowledge about Wurm with a microeconomic, neoliberal mindset. I did not find any thoughtful argument in their rants, so I am confident the company won't mind.

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its fun to see, we have the new players complaining there is no space to settle down cause its all over deeded by old players.
Then we have old players complaining that new land is coming 😛  

maybe make a few more starter areas on each map, so people dont all deed our the area at the drop, no new player wants to use 2 hours running to find a place to deed. :)
and maybe old players should stop going crazy and deeding giant deeds at spawn ;) 

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More land, more mobs, more fight skill. Bring it. 😎

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