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Oblivionnreaver

Remove creation skillgain penalty for skills that are mainly creation

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its dumb cmon, no reason for these skills to be 3x as slow as they should be solely due to creation and randomly drop in difficulty when you finally add an item for them that can be imped/have that happen due to a bug/exploit.

 

Thatching Milling Coalmaking Papyrusmaking Metallurgy Locksmithing Ropemaking Firemaking should have the 1/3 skillgain removed for sure, i'd argue that all skills should have it removed, or atleast have the 1/3 characteristics gain penalty removed, as imping is far superior even if they didn't have the penalty.

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Good idea.

I'm not really sure why this was a thing to begin with but they shouldn't have such a harsh skillgain on them compared to some of the other skills, especially with no effective way to grind them outside of spamming/littering the place up.

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25 minutes ago, Oblivionnreaver said:

its dumb cmon, no reason for these skills to be 3x as slow as they should be solely due to creation and randomly drop in difficulty when you finally add an item for them that can be imped/have that happen due to a bug/exploit.

 

Thatching Milling Coalmaking Papyrusmaking Metallurgy Locksmithing Ropemaking Firemaking should have the 1/3 skillgain removed for sure, i'd argue that all skills should have it removed, or atleast have the 1/3 characteristics gain penalty removed, as imping is far superior even if they didn't have the penalty.

yes +1

But hand tailor what is changed, i.e i think training woodcutting via making kindling is a bad gameplay mechanic.
 

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Not remove entirely, maybe, but at least some middle ground would be good, i'd say that even more for the skills that CAN be skilled up even through improving

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21 minutes ago, Groot said:

But hand tailor what is changed, i.e i think training woodcutting via making kindling is a bad gameplay mechanic.

Wouldn't be much worse than spamming unfinished coal piles and throw them away to skill coalmaking :D

Edited by Davih

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Yeah if we're making the game easier for newer people to come in, seems a good idea to throw a bone to what are often those "middle of the road" grinds where you're not quite new but you're not old either.

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you can grind ropemaking by imping some stuff, but 100% agree on all the others even though i already did my locksmithing grindg

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+1.

 

It's a nonsensical game mechanic that should have been removed years ago.

Either that or add items that can be improved for each skill. 

 

Like Locksmithing = improving locks. 

Thatching = Improve leggats?

Metallurgy = Add crucible to the game and imp it via metallurgy or something. 

 

You get the idea. 

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Also remove it for certain (ethos specified) skills on priests since we cannot imp?

 

Cloth tailoring for fo for example...

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-1

 

It's ok for some skills to be harder and different to get than others.

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1 hour ago, Joemog said:

-1

 

It's ok for some skills to be harder and different to get than others.

I agree

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2 hours ago, Joemog said:

It's ok for some skills to be harder and different to get than others.

While I agree on the statement the 1/3 Skill gain is not a good solution. All the creation skills more or less can be offset by high material. Want a 90QL lock? Use 90Ql iron and pray for luck. Same for Metallurgy. So would it be too big of an issue if there would be more of this skill in game, so people don't feel like they need to wast material to get good results to much?

On top the 1/3 is a double down in "difficulty". You need to gather more material for these jobs, so you have already a bigger time sink for your skill gain. On top the Difficulty manipulation is near impossible for creation jobs. Or at lest way harder than for Imping. In my opinion there is just no good explanation for a extra reduction on creation only jobs. For Weaponsmithing the 1/2 gain is for example something I understand even if I dislike it it's from a design perspective way more reasonable.

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3 hours ago, Joemog said:

-1

 

It's ok for some skills to be harder and different to get than others

 

Good game design implies High difficulty = High reward. I believe  this is one of the reason the souls type games were so succesful. They had a lot of gratification when through skill and patience you managed to defeat a boss.

 

In wurm, i'd say weaponsmithing is the most difficult skill to grind, but also rewarding as hell. You'll make a hundred friends instantly asking you to imp stuff.

 

But when it comes to other skills? Exactly what is so rewarding about making thatch? The skill itself is I'd argue, pointless. 

 

Creation based skills other than locksmithing have little usefullness. 

 

Metallurgy was only useful back in the day when we had to make steel armours just to pvp. Nowadays leather and iron chain is just as good. 

 

Wurm has skills that are difficult to grind but shitty rewards in the end. Change the game design to balance it out. Just my usual rant. 

 

 

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Most of those skills that can only create also create at instantly high quality so it seems fine.

Thatching specifically i dont know or care about at all lol.

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15 hours ago, Joemog said:

Most of those skills that can only create also create at instantly high quality so it seems fine.

Thatching specifically i dont know or care about at all lol.

Well is this not an argument for it? Why make it hard if it doesn´t matter in the first place? This argument is a one that is only perspective wise a good one.

And like already pointed out creation skills are giving early high output but only if you use high material, so you need to have a good supplier or be self suppliant. Both make it incredibly harder to grind in the pure time investment+reward. A smith need a few high QL tools and high QL lumps and be happy a long time with it. While you have constantly shoved more material in your grind and get often mediocre stuff out that you trow away because they are so low they are not usable (or not needed in the amount you produce them). So yeah the gratification is also not there as elentari pointed out since your most of the time will level these skills for your own entertainment or character vision not for their huge benefits.

 

Edited by Radircs

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25 minutes ago, Radircs said:

Well is this not an argument for it? Why make it hard if it doesn´t matter in the first place? This argument is a one that is only perspective wise a good one.

And like already pointed out creation skills are giving early high output but only if you use high material, so you need to have a good supplier or be self suppliant. Both make it incredibly harder to grind in the pure time investment+reward. A smith need a few high QL tools and high QL lumps and be happy a long time with it. While you have constantly shoved more material in your grind and get often mediocre stuff out that you trow away because they are so low they are not usable (or not needed in the amount you produce them). So yeah the gratification is also not there as elentari pointed out since your most of the time will level these skills for your own entertainment or character vision not for their huge benefits.

 

It does matter, your average quality and chance to hit higher quality increases a lot with skill.

You also need high ql materials to imp high ql, how is any different?

Most creation skills doesn't even take much materials to grind. You can do it making light materials like lockpicks and have low stamina. If you wanna optimize either improving or creation grinding you don't get anything useful out of them while grinding.

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6 minutes ago, Joemog said:

It does matter, your average quality and chance to hit higher quality increases a lot with skill.

Only at lower levels, once you hit 50 it starts dropping off a cliff and the increase in average ql per skill point gets worse and worse the higher you go. For example, using a 90ql anvil with 95ql iron making door locks, 70 skill you'd average 73ql, with 20% being 90+ql. With 90 skill you'd average 76.3ql and 23% 90+ql, about 8-10% more favor/hour if you're using them to sacc and a small enough increase in 90+ql that you could mistake the increase for a mild rng streak.

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Definitely think this should be looked at, but I'm not sure if removing the penalty is the solution. These are niche skills that could definitely use the boost.

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