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Davih

Feedback after testing : Batteries, even just 1 or 2, are now 95% useless.

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As i have already suspected before,  and after a bit of testing, i can now explain why batteries are now 95% useless.

When you cast opulence or any other 10-favor requiring spell, even if your batteries have some favor over 20 to "spare" for the caster, you still cannot cast the spell if the main caster doesn't have AT LEAST 10 favor.

Now, for how favor regen works, the first 5-6 points of favor, when you get set back to 0, are basically instantaneous. And then the "slow" part is actually going from 6 favor back to 10, to be able to cast another one.

If you chaincast the spell (which is exactly what you want to do if you want to grind channeling) the batteries are always trying to regenerate favor from 20.00 onwards, which is very slow, in the time you cast a 20 second spell, they will have regenerated around 1-1.5 favor each (with full ccfp, best conditions). Which means that having 2 linked battiers will just set you back at 4-5 favor instead of setting you back to 1 (you always regenerate at least 1 favor even with main priest while casting)

And then, starting from 4-5 favor, is BASICALLY THE SAME than starting to regenerate from 1, even linking 4 batteries, will make you start back from  6-7 favor which is a very minimal difference, the "slow" part is still there, you don't even save a 20% of time even 4 linked batteries. linking more than 4 doens't chance that much, but completely eliminates the skillgain making it completely unviable
 
This is not a "balancing", this is destroying a mechanic in a very specific and subtle way.

A lot of people took advantage of the "old" mechanic getting extremely ahead in channeling and trying to catch up now is just extremely harder.

The nerfs are just made in a way to make batteries completely useless for channeling grind, while it has just passed as a "slight balancing"

Yo should AT LEAST eliminate the llat 10-favor requirement to cast the spell , because if my 4 batteries have 21 favor each and i have 6, that makes 10 usable favor, and i should be able to cast the spell.

Anyway, as already mentioned many times before:  the 20 threshold is way too high, the 15% channeling nerf is way too steep compared to the advantages that it offers (4 batteries are effectively worse than 2)

This is simply unacceptable, even more considering the amount of advantage.gap that the peope who really "tried hard" since the beginning now have, the damage is done, and it's "sealed" for those who were a little more lazy and now don't even have a minimal chance to catch up.

This just, overally makes no sense.


Edit:
 

Quote

 

By the way, i just realized than, having i.e. 4 batteries and being this crap designed like it is, i can just:
link 2 of them ---> chaincast until 0 favor--> delink ---> link the other 2 battiers while the other ones regenerate favor ---> repeat endlessly


So basically, right now the best way to deal with this is a quality of life nightmare for efficiency :D

just great

 

 

Edited by Davih

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13 minutes ago, Davih said:

This is not a "balancing", this is destroying a mechanic in a very specific and subtle way.

its about as subtle as being hit in the face by a brick

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2 minutes ago, Oblivionnreaver said:

its about as subtle as being hit in the face by a brick

Yeah, lol, ok, but he "subtle" part is that the 10-favor minimal threshold for casting is what makes the entire nerf way bigger than it seems, basically huge.

Edited by Davih

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In my opinion we can just get rid of batteries. Linking should only benefit casting rites really.

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2 minutes ago, Nordlys said:

In my opinion we can just get rid of batteries. Linking should only benefit casting rites really.

Agreed, and stuff like LT.

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5 minutes ago, Nordlys said:

In my opinion we can just get rid of batteries. Linking should only benefit casting rites really.

2 Weeks ago would have been a perfect time for that, people have already hit 70+ channeling, the specific "huge nerf" i'm talking about is mostly about the early-mid channeling grind (30-70)
You won't be casting opulence to hit 90, and i'm ok with nerfing that part (linking 10 batteries could raise difficilty enough to reach 85+ channeling)

 But at this point, such a huge specifical early-mid nerf makes no sense anymore.

Edited by Davih

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4 minutes ago, Nordlys said:

In my opinion we can just get rid of batteries. Linking should only benefit casting rites really.

 

The problem is it seems to be too late for that. Wurm struggles with a problem that "new" players are light years behind "old" players, many people built huge and profitable enterprises on this issue (no, I am not saying everyone who has high channelling priest is a cheater). After the change new players seems to have no chance to match them which in fact gives the "old ones", who used this, even more advantage as any competition was quenched. This is a hard one, a Sophoclean problem of balancing the game economy and powers. 

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Really unfortunate this has happened. Those who took advantage of the situation are now miles ahead, while we're stuck grinding with this nerf. I hope they make further changes to the current system, and soon. 

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Let's face it, the one who got the huge advantages in the first week of this thing (i'm talking about the legit mechanics, not the bug abuse that i'm not even sure if many people even abused that) Are now light-years ahead.

And this nerfs hits way harder on the early-mid channeling than it does on the late channeling.

Those who are ahead were the most prepared and most commited, and are probably still trying very hard

Those who are behind, now have this huge nerf in their face, further ensuring the unbalance to be sealed.

I'm not necessarely talking about myself, i play a lot and i will catch up for sure, but this will affect newer and less commited players , who even just wanted to do 1 or 2 batteries, pretty hard. It's just unreasonable for how it's designed

Edited by Davih

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Im sorry, i dont buy the "late to the party" argument. Mind you, my planned priest dont even have 20 faith on the new servers. It might be the case that i dont look at Wurm Online as a 3 months sprint, but rather a 8 year marathon. Im pretty sure i will have good enough weaponsmithing on the new servers to make a difference - but thats only because i know that i will play this game in several years also.

 

The real answer is that there still are several valid methods that works on grinding channeling. You can use X amounts of alts to mine, make pendulums (if no seryll), farm, make cordage ropes, pray for gems.

Ive taken several priests to 90+ channeling on the old servers without using a single battery for difficulty or endless favour. Its doable, just like its doable to get any other skill to 90+ without alts.

 

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6 minutes ago, Nordlys said:

Im sorry, i dont buy the "late to the party" argument. Mind you, my planned priest dont even have 20 faith on the new servers. It might be the case that i dont look at Wurm Online as a 3 months sprint, but rather a 8 year marathon. Im pretty sure i will have good enough weaponsmithing on the new servers to make a difference - but thats only because i know that i will play this game in several years also.

 

The real answer is that there still are several valid methods that works on grinding channeling. You can use X amounts of alts to mine, make pendulums (if no seryll), farm, make cordage ropes, pray for gems.

Ive taken several priests to 90+ channeling on the old servers without using a single battery for difficulty or endless favour. Its doable, just like its doable to get any other skill to 90+ without alts.

 

We cannot ignore the fact that a brand-new server and characters implies a race for most people, you cannot effieciently make favor at this point in the game, it's too early, this mechanic was HUGE and now it's gone, people who "used" it are now far ahead in the competition, and the answer is a wall being thrown not on them, but mostly on the people who were trying to catch up on them, this is what makes no sense.

i've myself taken a priest from 1 to 93 channeling on old server without using a battery for skilling, but that's not the point, the point just isn't "we'll all get there eventually" because that just completely ignores the fact that there is a race going on.

Edited by Davih

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No one told me there's a race, do i have to no-life harder now to win?

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2 minutes ago, Tor said:

No one told me there's a race, do i have to no-life harder now to win?

Depends if you want to make CoC pickaxes people will pay 20s for (At the beginning stages we're currently at)

Edited by IllusiveEn

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1 minute ago, IllusiveEn said:

Depends if you want to make CoC pickaxes people will pay 20s for (At the beginning stages we're currently at)

 

And eventually they won't anymore, such is life

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Channel grind is a mixed bag in terms of historical advantage.

 

Before Sindusk's excellent work, natural favor regen was slower.  Also, spells could not be hotkeyed in the past.  So, in terms of comparing channel grind today vs channel grind about 5 years ago?  It's a lot more pleasant than it was (I managed to get to 80 channeling without using links, though I chewed through a lot of gems using vessel).

 

However, late-game channel levelling is incredibly tough since the highest difficulty you can get on a cheap (20 favor or less) cast is 82.5 as Mag/Fo (vessel using plate armour); though this method is gated by gems.  You could also opt for saccing to level (which for Mag and Lib might be viable as they get a 96 difficulty cast using human demise), though generating that many favour items as a priest (remember, your skillgain ticks are ALL creation ticks, no imping ticks) is VERY time intensive as you're going to be stuck below 50QL unless you levelled the crafting skill(s) before you priested.

 

This change has gated away using dirt casts with a high number of links (at 80 channeling, this would have been a 90 difficulty cast), as well as other things like pendulum enchanting for the mid-game channel grind.

 

Overall, it is a huge nerf which priests really didn't need.

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@NordlysIt tis not late-to-the-party argument, it is a late-to-all-future-parties-without-any-chance-to-appear-on-time argument. Mind that I don't have a single priest char, so I am impartial. 

Edited by Platyna

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2 minutes ago, Etherdrifter said:

Channel grind is a mixed bag in terms of historical advantage.

 

Before Sindusk's excellent work, natural favor regen was slower.  Also, spells could not be hotkeyed in the past.  So, in terms of comparing channel grind today vs channel grind about 5 years ago?  It's a lot more pleasant than it was (I managed to get to 80 channeling without using links, though I chewed through a lot of gems using vessel).

 

However, late-game channel levelling is incredibly tough since the highest difficulty you can get on a cheap (20 favor or less) cast is 82.5 as Mag/Fo (vessel using plate armour); though this method is gated by gems.  You could also opt for saccing to level (which for Mag and Lib might be viable as they get a 96 difficulty cast using human demise), though generating that many favour items as a priest (remember, your skillgain ticks are ALL creation ticks, no imping ticks) is VERY time intensive as you're going to be stuck below 50QL unless you levelled the crafting skill(s) before you priested.

 

This change has gated away using dirt casts with a high number of links (at 80 channeling, this would have been a 90 difficulty cast), as well as other things like pendulum enchanting for the mid-game channel grind.

 

Overall, it is a huge nerf which priests really didn't need.

 

It's a kick in the face nerf but still, it goes hand in hand with this so desired and million times asked for "brand new player experience" where you have to grind for favor as well without paying for it in terms of premium. It just sucks that in such a short time they managed to make  few windows of oportunity: archery, meditation and channeling and who knows what else

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Reset the servers, so everyone starts again without these early balence bugs

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7 minutes ago, zCat said:

Reset the servers, so everyone starts again without these early balence bugs

Yeah.... no, maybe not this, lol

I'd be ok if we could "lift" the early-mid brickwall that was dropped on channeling skilling, because the damage is done anyway for the most part, so at least the rest of the people who wereleft behind can have a chance to catch up, keep the late-channeling nerfs because they make sense and at least we are not there yet (at least keenan confirmed nobody reached 90 channeling yet)
 

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By the way, i just realized than, having i.e. 4 batteries and being this crap designed like this, i can just:
link 2 of them ---> chaincast until 0 favor--> delink ---> link the other 2 battiers while the other ones regenerate favor ---> repeat endlessly


So basically, right now the best way to deal with this is a quality of life nightmare for efficiency :D

just great

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1 hour ago, Tor said:

 

It's a kick in the face nerf

 

That generally seems to be the life of a priest on wurm XD

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3 hours ago, Nordlys said:

In my opinion we can just get rid of batteries. Linking should only benefit casting rites really.

 

I agree, but i would also get rid of the rite spells as they are now, that system doesn't scale well with community size. Just imagine trying to get the global rite spell journal achievement on one of the new servers with the amount of other players trying to do the same thing, nothing as is great for community building as a feature that sets everybody up against each other. Meanwhile on the old servers the rite spells are available so infrequently that they might as well not exist, especially for certain deities.

Instead lower rite spells to like 80 favor, give each rite spell an in game month during which they can be cast, at the end of the month the spell takes affect, it's power being some variation of how many casts were made compared to the server population or something like that. Cooldown per character so you can't server hop to quickly get the benefits multiple times. This changes it into a feature where the community has to work together in order to charge the spell and get the maximum benefit.

 

At that point linking can be scrapped and channeling skill gain can much more easily be rebalanced.

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I'm just waiting for a weaponsmithing difficulty buff on SFI since we're an "endgame" server and don't have a need to gate weapon quality behind enhanced difficulty to slow server progression. Only makes sense that if they're going to shoot us in the foot with a crap change like this, they use the same impartial judgement to give a very nice QoL improvement to the older servers.

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Because you're trying to be a lazy priest. Make items to sac, sac them on the linked priests and chain cast on the main.

Why should you be able to stand there and cast constantly without any support skills? System is good atm, just need to do more to get skill.

I do agree though, it's unfair that others were able to use the old method without getting needed.

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