The Bug reporting system needs an overhaul

[Amumu 4]

The current bug reporting system is inefficient. With this game being placed on steam, many new players coming to this "world" are going to have the same expectations that other games provide. There should be a single ticket system in place in the game that allows players to place all forms of tickets, from lost horses to game bugs. That system should be answer by a person that would look into the matter and correct or answer anything that is in their power to correct or answer. If there is a problem or bug out of their power, that person should gather all information that might be needed and pass that Ticket and information to the hand of someone that would be able to do so. I don't understand why the need for two different reporting systems, one inside the game and one outside. People play a game to play the game, not to go back and forth between the game and the forums in order to have an issue resolved. It give the player a sense of disconnect between the GM/DEVs and the game they run. I wait for this post to either be deleted or ignored.  

[neopherus 257]

Moved to Suggestions & Ideas

[John 254]

The current bug reporting system might be inefficient, but it's not due to people being unable to post on the forums. The biggest issue with bugs right now is the lack of developers - and surely we'd rather want the devs working on bugs themselves rather than a new bug reporting system.

[Amumu 4]

22 minutes ago, John said:

The current bug reporting system might be inefficient, but it's not due to people being unable to post on the forums. The biggest issue with bugs right now is the lack of developers - and surely we'd rather want the devs working on bugs themselves rather than a new bug reporting system.

 

The Devs would save time because they will be getting more information from someone within the team that would have already spoken or seen the issue. Instead of reading the forums and having to reach out to that person directly in order to gather more information on the issue. The fact the more streamlined the process is will allows the the Devs to do more with less. Cut out the fat so to speak.

Edited August 13, 2020 by Amumu

[Katrat 2,296]

+1 Games really should have in game help for all issues and not force people to open a separate account on a forum just to get help.

[FireHeart 214]

31 minutes ago, John said:

The current bug reporting system might be inefficient, but it's not due to people being unable to post on the forums. The biggest issue with bugs right now is the lack of developers - and surely we'd rather want the devs working on bugs themselves rather than a new bug reporting system.

maybe short term this works, but long term if they make an efficient reporting system it will help them fix bugs a lot quicker. Making a better reporting system for bugs will help the gave in the future best to do it now when there is a huge sample size of difference issues.

[Retrograde 12,013]

While in-game bug reporting would be helpful, it's a lot more in terms of overheads and structure and makes the bug system a lot more opaque in terms of reports being handled and compiling results. 

 

Currently, the forums allow us the best way of cataloguing multiple reports and compiling trends, working with players to collect more information and respond quickly to players raising issues. It is not our bug ticket system, and we have myself and Alectrys who work on that, the same people who would be performing the work on an in-game system anyway. We're not dealing with hundreds of issues a day, meaning this system would provide no significant benefit for either party. 

 

In-game ticketing is for issues requiring a GM or CM on site, not for general bug reports, and that means we can improve response rates (which already suffer under load) and provide better service through them. 

 

Ultimately, we don't have the report density to justify the time spent on creating or paying for a major ticketing system, the one we currently use works best for us. 

 

I want to say, please don't decide that your post will be deleted or ignored just for suggesting something, we welcome constructive criticism and will always work with it. The only posts removed are the ones where players fail to understand the "constructive" bit and dive deep into just bashing staff.

[Retrograde 12,013]

3 hours ago, FireHeart said:

maybe short term this works, but long term if they make an efficient reporting system it will help them fix bugs a lot quicker. Making a better reporting system for bugs will help the gave in the future best to do it now when there is a huge sample size of difference issues.

No reporting system will make bug fixes quicker. 

[FireHeart 214]

1 hour ago, Retrograde said:

No reporting system will make bug fixes quicker. 

Logic seems flawed, how you know what to look for to fix the bug if you got no info cause people cant give it to you? 

Edited August 14, 2020 by FireHeart

[Amumu 4]

10 hours ago, Retrograde said:

While in-game bug reporting would be helpful, it's a lot more in terms of overheads and structure and makes the bug system a lot more opaque in terms of reports being handled and compiling results. 

 

Currently, the forums allow us the best way of cataloguing multiple reports and compiling trends, working with players to collect more information and respond quickly to players raising issues. It is not our bug ticket system, and we have myself and Alectrys who work on that, the same people who would be performing the work on an in-game system anyway. We're not dealing with hundreds of issues a day, meaning this system would provide no significant benefit for either party. 

 

In-game ticketing is for issues requiring a GM or CM on site, not for general bug reports, and that means we can improve response rates (which already suffer under load) and provide better service through them. 

 

Ultimately, we don't have the report density to justify the time spent on creating or paying for a major ticketing system, the one we currently use works best for us. 

 

I want to say, please don't decide that your post will be deleted or ignored just for suggesting something, we welcome constructive criticism and will always work with it. The only posts removed are the ones where players fail to understand the "constructive" bit and dive deep into just bashing staff.

 

What i am suggesting is better structure that would help support the speediness of results. The problem that I and some have is that it feels like there is no structure and no wiliness to correct issues with a sense of urgency. I was on during the last Epic reset and the biggest issue that turn many away from the game in less then 2-3 weeks was the lack of structure and the appearance of issues not getting resolved with a sense of urgency. Nothing boils a veteran player more in the game then the words "its a known bug/issue" and I feel that items are taken less seriously when posted on forum format. Furthermore, i feel that the fact that players do not have an ingame option or are turn to the forum to report bugs are the very reason you do not hear of more bugs and issues. I myself are a fan of forums because they are as one player said to me "forums are for Memes". Moreover, players might not want to put information on a public format, that other player may take advantage of, especially on pvp servers. The reason that the post would be ignore is the fact that this post has received a faster respond then my actual bug post which i posted on the report bug forum an hour before i posted this one. 

 

 

 

 

10 hours ago, Retrograde said:

No reporting system will make bug fixes quicker. 

 

I agreed total that this does not make sense. Plethora of video games both big games and little that use ingame reporting their main means because of the fact that it is more efficient. 

[Retrograde 12,013]

7 hours ago, Amumu said:

What i am suggesting is better structure that would help support the speediness of results. The problem that I and some have is that it feels like there is no structure and no wiliness to correct issues with a sense of urgency. I was on during the last Epic reset and the biggest issue that turn many away from the game in less then 2-3 weeks was the lack of structure and the appearance of issues not getting resolved with a sense of urgency. Nothing boils a veteran player more in the game then the words "its a known bug/issue" and I feel that items are taken less seriously when posted on forum format. Furthermore, i feel that the fact that players do not have an ingame option or are turn to the forum to report bugs are the very reason you do not hear of more bugs and issues. I myself are a fan of forums because they are as one player said to me "forums are for Memes". Moreover, players might not want to put information on a public format, that other player may take advantage of, especially on pvp servers. The reason that the post would be ignore is the fact that this post has received a faster respond then my actual bug post which i posted on the report bug forum an hour before i posted this one. 

 

Bug reports are verified by Alectrys, not myself. I work primarily with the easy bugs that don't require testing and suggestions, thus why I'm in here. sensitive bugs can be reported via ticket in-game. 

 

Even in-game bug reports would go through a queue of verification and further feedback, which is what we do anyway.

 

7 hours ago, Amumu said:

I agreed total that this does not make sense. Plethora of video games both big games and little that use ingame reporting their main means because of the fact that it is more efficient. 

I'd say many more use outside means such as support subdomains and their own external ticketing systems than in-game. In-game would not speed up them being seen and acted upon by the dev team. 

 

 

[TheTrickster 2,287]

15 hours ago, Amumu said:

I wait for this post to either be deleted or ignored.  

 

If you are asking people who, in significant part, do what they do for you without any personal benefit, I would recommend forgoing this kind of snarkery.  So you would like a single integrated feedback system for problems.  Consider that in a forum, often there is an opportunity for more detailed and insightful discussion, so all involved can better appreciate both the problem and the solution.

 

BTW lost horses in the world of Wurm are NOT a GM issue.  That's where the forum and your chat windows really show their value as a community.. well... forum.  You can get tips and advice, as well as practical help.  Topical case in point, through my own absent-mindedness I had allowed several of my horses to escape, and through both chat and forum discussion I wound up recovering all of them, including a couple I hadn't even missed.

[polarbear 284]

16 hours ago, Retrograde said:

No reporting system will make bug fixes quicker. 

Should just all switch to Github, for public bug reporting.

*(slightly biased on me for this)

[Amumu 4]

On 8/14/2020 at 7:36 AM, Retrograde said:

Bug reports are verified by Alectrys, not myself. I work primarily with the easy bugs that don't require testing and suggestions, thus why I'm in here. sensitive bugs can be reported via ticket in-game. 

 

 

 

I guess this proves my point, there are people in the team that can reach out to players in game, gather information on what the problem is and pass that information to the ones that would be handling it. Allowing them to have to spend less time working on the issue so they can move on to the next. Also, if there is already a button in place in the game for Sensitive Bugs, then i don't understand what another can't be added for normal bugs. The structure appears to be there, what is missing is the lack of doing it.

 

 

[Amumu 4]

On 8/14/2020 at 7:49 AM, TheTrickster said:

 

If you are asking people who, in significant part, do what they do for you without any personal benefit, I would recommend forgoing this kind of snarkery.  So you would like a single integrated feedback system for problems.  Consider that in a forum, often there is an opportunity for more detailed and insightful discussion, so all involved can better appreciate both the problem and the solution.

 

BTW lost horses in the world of Wurm are NOT a GM issue.  That's where the forum and your chat windows really show their value as a community.. well... forum.  You can get tips and advice, as well as practical help.  Topical case in point, through my own absent-mindedness I had allowed several of my horses to escape, and through both chat and forum discussion I wound up recovering all of them, including a couple I hadn't even missed.

 

 

 

I agreed, Lost Horses are not a GM issue and there is a button on the support window if you indeed lost yours already. Furthermore, you can not tell me that one on one conversations with the person ingame in which the player can show the person in realtime what the issue is gives less information, detail and insight then posting it on the forum. That just doesn't make sense. Forums are can be great or many aspects of the game and community. Also a great place to air out issues you may have in order to get advice from other player and get tips. Where it is not good is in game servers and in game bugs. That should be something in game.

 

[Eobersig 1,006]

7 hours ago, Amumu said:

Forums are can be great or many aspects of the game and community. Also a great place to air out issues you may have in order to get advice from other player and get tips. Where it is not good is in game servers and in game bugs. That should be something in game.

 

Please consider that the majority of "bugs" currently reported via tickets are not actually bugs but the player overlooking something (frequently settings, permissions, deed roles, new game mechanics, changed game mechanics). We certainly do not want more tickets for bugs that are no bugs.

 

With reporting bugs on forums it's easy to see whether there is a bug cause multiple players will chime in and post their experience. If we did that via tickets we would have 50 new tickets all reporting the same thing - and all needing individual chats with a CM or GM about it.

[Amumu 4]

59 minutes ago, Eobersig said:

 

With reporting bugs on forums it's easy to see whether there is a bug cause multiple players will chime in and post their experience. If we did that via tickets we would have 50 new tickets all reporting the same thing - and all needing individual chats with a CM or GM about it.

 

I would believe that the conversations would change after speaking to the first 5-10 players that first placed a ticket out of 50. With the reminding players conversations being more confirming everything you already have gathered, short and to the point with some customer server love. In the sense of having multiple tickets being made for a single issues, it is as simple as lumping all the same issue under one overarching number for all. This would allow everyone to know how big the problem is and also let all the players know when the bug has been fixed.

 

1 hour ago, Eobersig said:

 

Please consider that the majority of "bugs" currently reported via tickets are not actually bugs but the player overlooking something (frequently settings, permissions, deed roles, new game mechanics, changed game mechanics). We certainly do not want more tickets for bugs that are no bugs.

 

I do understand that the majority of tickets that are place in the system are not actual bugs in the system, but that just proves my point even more that people A. are used to placing tickets in game like in other games and not on the forums, and B that people are not fans of forum base tickets. "Forums are for Memes"  

[Katrat 2,296]

9 hours ago, Amumu said:

I do understand that the majority of tickets that are place in the system are not actual bugs in the system, but that just proves my point even more that people A. are used to placing tickets in game like in other games and not on the forums, and B that people are not fans of forum base tickets. "Forums are for Memes"  

I find this to be very true. People are not fans of forum based tickets. Many players feel that the often used statement by CA Help "Put it on the forums" is a brush off implying that they will not be helped for what ever reasons.