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DevBlog

Patch Notes 11/AUG/20

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9 hours ago, DevBlog said:

In addition to these changes, starting Monday, August 24th faith and deity will transfer between Northern Freedom PvE and Defiance. If you are a priest on both sides, the deity with the highest faith will take priority.

If you are in the HOTS kingdom your deity will be swapped to Libila.

 

This is very unfortunate and seems shortsighted. I am in HoTS and have no plans on switching kingdoms just to take advantage of Vynora's 10% skill gain.

 

The change seems very unfair as Libila only has skill gain bonuses to Religion (which is worthless as a follower), Alchemy/Nat Subs, and Thievery. As a member of HoTS, I am not allowed to be Vynora by nature of alignment, so in order to take advantage of the skill gain, I would have to be a different kingdom on Defiance altogether (I would assume that's something you would consider unbalanced?).

 

I understand the reasoning for this change is to disallow priests to grind on Freedom, but I feel like the better solution would be to simply keep the Faith number/skill connected between the two severs (so if you're a priest on PvP, you are one on PvE), but allow a separate Faith/God and Alignment. For example, I could be a Libila priest with 55 Faith and -100 Alignment on Defiance, but on Harmony, I could be a Fo Priest with 55 Faith (same as PvP) and 100 Alignment.

Edited by Xallo
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Are GMs going to assist with Kingdom changes for those of us who don't want to be forced to change our faith on Harmony/Melody?

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Yes, I confirm that limiting the choices of players and creating such a strong dependence between servers only accessible by portal seems inappropriate. In fact, it is forbidding or at least punishing for a PvE player then to choose HotS. That seem inacceptable to me. The devs should think about.

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20 minutes ago, Xallo said:

 

This is very unfortunate and seems shortsighted. I am in HoTS and have no plans on switching kingdoms just to take advantage of Vynora's 10% skill gain.

 

The change seems very unfair as Libila only has skill gain bonuses to Religion (which is worthless as a follower), Alchemy/Nat Subs, and Thievery. As a member of HoTS, I am not allowed to be Vynora by nature of alignment, so in order to take advantage of the skill gain, I would have to be a different kingdom on Defiance altogether (I would assume that's something you would consider unbalanced?).

 

I understand the reasoning for this change is to disallow priests to grind on Freedom, but I feel like the better solution would be to simply keep the Faith number/skill connected between the two severs (so if you're a priest on PvP, you are one on PvE), but allow a separate Faith/God and Alignment. For example, I could be a Libila priest with 55 Faith and -100 Alignment on Defiance, but on Harmony, I could be a Fo Priest with 55 Faith (same as PvP) and 100 Alignment.

 

+1

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1 hour ago, DragonNoir said:

I feel like so far only the ones that wanted to benefit the most from the exploit or were benefitting from it are the ones complaining about this patch, while everybody else rejoyce, but with a deep thought about those that used the exploit to their advantage.

The feeling that it come way late into the release is making everyone loud about it too, but the changes are starting to separate those that intended to exploit from those that didn't want those exploit to happen, and it was the purpose of the last patch, wich say to me they listened and monitored the changes and are really working on this matter, even if it's a little late.

For now, the fairest point that remain to point out is : Will anything be done toward those who intentionnaly grieffed and are currently benefiting from it, and in wich way this should be dealt with to prevent side-effect such has economic impact by locking away silver they gathered for exemple in case of a ban.

 

What an interesting tactic: "If you speak about against this change, you are an expoliter (or I am heavily going to imply you are)".  I've seen that one used a few times, and generally it's used to hold up points that any logical argument would destroy.

 

I've a marked dislike for exploits, as long as they are clearly exploits (going over channel limit for links definitely is), but I am also certainly against tactics that suddenly get labelled exploits after existing for years and having been used by the devs who removed it.  The use of links to make channel grind easier is NOT (I repeat NOT) something that was unknown to the devs of wurm; this is something I have seen advocated on the forums often over the years and, if memory serves, by some volunteer staff members.

 

I'm still waiting for justification on that "20 favor minimum" that multiplied casting times when your friend is AFK (a common thing at sermon groups) by 5.  Don't mind me, I'll keep on waiting and bringing it up every now and then, rather like I do the absolutely terrible balancing of priests ;)

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1 hour ago, DragonNoir said:

I feel like so far only the ones that wanted to benefit the most from the exploit or were benefitting from it are the ones complaining about this patch, while everybody else rejoyce, but with a deep thought about those that used the exploit to their advantage.

The feeling that it come way late into the release is making everyone loud about it too, but the changes are starting to separate those that intended to exploit from those that didn't want those exploit to happen, and it was the purpose of the last patch, wich say to me they listened and monitored the changes and are really working on this matter, even if it's a little late.

For now, the fairest point that remain to point out is : Will anything be done toward those who intentionnaly grieffed and are currently benefiting from it, and in wich way this should be dealt with to prevent side-effect such has economic impact by locking away silver they gathered for exemple in case of a ban.

I have never linked to any other priest since the servers launched.

 

Please explain how I am an exploiter.

 

Thanks.

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xI6sM6s.png

 

 

Is the 5x reduced favor regen still a thing? If not, the text needs changing

Edited by Garnetstar

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9 minutes ago, Garnetstar said:

xI6sM6s.png

 

 

Is the 5x reduced favor regen still a thing? If not, the text needs changing

The text missed the update, it is not active and the text will be updated next server restart.

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PvP ecosystem is already absolutely FUBAR.  People who didn't exploit getting flattened, as predicted...  and a mass exodus of players.

 

Imagine that.  Reset people who abused this NOW.  Rebalance priests NOW.  Otherwise Wurm will be back to the state it was in pre steam launch with two brand new and completely empty islands.

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I'm curious - all these people begging for exploiters to get punished, but I haven't seen anywhere confirmation if it was actually abused?  I've only seen one random post that even said what the exploit was.

By all means, if someone did for sure abuse a bug punish the abuse, but what was the highest channeling - and if it was a blacklight priest is their 15% skillgain buff to religion and its subskills being taken into consideration?

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Just now, MrGARY said:

I'm curious - all these people begging for exploiters to get punished, but I haven't seen anywhere confirmation if it was actually abused?  I've only seen one random post that even said what the exploit was.

By all means, if someone did for sure abuse a bug punish the abuse, but what was the highest channeling - and if it was a blacklight priest is their 15% skillgain buff to religion and its subskills being taken into consideration?

 

Well you're never really gonna get that confirmation, GMs dont publish punishments except for the most egregious.  Nothing's been posted in Gallows in a long while, and I doubt this is enough to warrant one.

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24 minutes ago, MrGARY said:

I'm curious - all these people begging for exploiters to get punished, but I haven't seen anywhere confirmation if it was actually abused?  I've only seen one random post that even said what the exploit was.

I've heard multiple people accusing each other of using it on chaos desertion and harmony and how its going to ruin the game forever, and 0 evidence of anyone actually doing it. If you prayed 5x every reboot since the server came out you got 30 faith on the 31st/1st so that's around 12 days of grinding. I've heard people say anything over 60 channeling is exploiting but tbh i think these people have 0 idea how skillgain works.

 

For example, here's what 8 days of skillgain with about 8-10 hours a day grinding (note, channeling does not use fatigue, if you shared the account within the rules with 2 other people, you could easily grind a hell of a lot more than i did), i'd consider this a pretty hardcore grind by my standards as i wanted to get my priest to 95+ asap but compared to some of the people i've seen in the new servers i'm nowhere near the top there, using 6 links, and i used 40 sleep powder and 5 mouth of vyn charges, so in the new server we can consider this about a 90s investment. My only skillgain bonus was the vyn bonus and high nutrition.

[2020-04-17] [23:51:47] Channeling increased by 0.0080 to 61.2032

didnt grind on 18th
[2020-04-19] [02:15:20] Channeling increased by 0.0124 to 69.1630

[2020-04-20] [23:58:14] Channeling increased by 0.0054 to 77.8278

[2020-04-21] [21:56:38] Channeling increased by 0.0045 to 82.1610

[2020-04-22] [23:57:44] Channeling increased by 0.0035 to 85.5708

[2020-04-23] [22:46:21] Channeling increased by 0.0027 to 88.3140

[2020-04-24] [23:59:34] Channeling increased by 0.0023 to 89.9153

[2020-04-25] [23:57:11] Channeling increased by 0.0019 to 91.6516

With account sharing, links (within the rules, on the old linking rules, not using the exploit, i'm not sure if many people know what the exploit is and they're just pointing at random priest mechanics and saying thats the exploit) and buying sleep powder, it would not be impossible for a group of 3 to grind channeling to 95+ legit on the new servers in the 12 days.

Edited by Oblivionnreaver
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28 minutes ago, MrGARY said:

I'm curious - all these people begging for exploiters to get punished, but I haven't seen anywhere confirmation if it was actually abused?  I've only seen one random post that even said what the exploit was.

By all means, if someone did for sure abuse a bug punish the abuse, but what was the highest channeling - and if it was a blacklight priest is their 15% skillgain buff to religion and its subskills being taken into consideration?

Darklord posted in discord I believe. Once the bug/player abusing it was reported they checked and confirmed there were people casting with unlimited favor.

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39 minutes ago, AceRifle said:

Darklord posted in discord I believe. Once the bug/player abusing it was reported they checked and confirmed there were people casting with unlimited favor.

 

That's not the exploit though

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45 minutes ago, AceRifle said:

Darklord posted in discord I believe. Once the bug/player abusing it was reported they checked and confirmed there were people casting with unlimited favor.


Let me post the logs here since I was the one specifically asking Darklord if the bug that allowed people to gain links past the regular limit was being abused.
 

Quote

9:44 AM] Archiplex: @Darklords 

To clarify, did you personally witness people abusing the 'bug' people are saying others exploited to 60+ ch, or are you just saying you feel like the core mechanic was overpowered and that people abused that to gain high skill in a low amount of time
[9:44 AM] Darklords: Yes I personally saw the infinite casting going on at several places.
[9:44 AM] Darklords: while investigating the original issue

[9:44 AM] Archiplex: the bug, or just off the normal channel link limit?
[9:44 AM] Archiplex: b/c infinite casting was possible even with the channel limit
[9:45 AM] Oblivionnreaver: i remember back before they increased favor regen i needed 7 alts to cast light token non-stop
[9:45 AM] Oblivionnreaver: man those days were bad
[9:45 AM] Oblivionnreaver: you see, you'd wear an onion tied on your belt back then
[9:46 AM] Darklords: We just want to find a middle ground for linking where it can be useful and allow you free casts, but not be abusable to the point if you buy enough accounts you have unlimited favor.
[9:46 AM] Archiplex: I get that, and to clarify I fully agree that linking deserved some changes for sure to avoid having 10 accounts being the best way to grind it
[9:47 AM] Archiplex: My issue is that right now there are people clamoring for others to get whacked because they think they abused an exploit/bug when it was just literally how the system was meant to be used- despite that design being kind of broken/too good
[9:47 AM] Oblivionnreaver: i said some time ago having to pay like 80 bucks a month for a grind to not be ###### isnt good
[9:47 AM] Darklords: For the record, the only bug that could have been abused was the way people found to link more than intended priests
[9:47 AM] Archiplex: Yeah, and i totally agree a change is needed
[9:47 AM] Darklords: using linked accounts to grind was not an exploit, just something we noticed and felt needed addressing while investigating that bug
[9:48 AM] Ztrack: Difference between batteries and exploiting arch
[9:48 AM] Oblivionnreaver: links or buying favor, both are pretty awful
[9:48 AM] Xallo: I feel like addressing that would have been more than enough, and then just mention that linking will be addressed soon.
[9:48 AM] Archiplex: Right, but did you find many cases of people abusing a bug to gain more links than intended?
[9:48 AM] Xallo: the bug that actually allowed more links than intended
[9:48 AM] Archiplex: Because right now it's sounding like most people think a bug was abused when that isn't the case



I tried to get darklords to confirm that yes, there were people abusing the bug that let you get more links than normal (1 + Ch/10) to grind channeling, and he either misunderstood or dodged answering that in specific. He seemed to specifically try and say that the main thing he saw going on, that he wanted to put a stop to, is linking being used to allow people to have psuedo-infinite casting for several spells. I want to say that you do NOT need many links to have your favor regenerate fast enough to spam low favor spells without stop, and mid-favor spells with only a small delay- easily possible with 4/5 links (30/40 channeling, which can be accomplished in a handful of days).

Getting to 50-60 channeling with only 3-4 links in 2 weeks is not hard at all. People have been publically accusing BL on defiance for doing this constantly both on discord and on the forums and i'll just say that I don't know a single person who's gotten it illegitimately or abused the bug. I can't speak for people on the freedom servers nor other kingdoms though.

If people abused such a bug, then yeah- punish them. But as far as I can see, it's just people slinging rumors as if they were facts and calling for bans/skill reductions when they don't even know if whoever they're accusing of cheating ever did anything wrong. The last thing we need is people doing this sort of thing and threatening to quit the game if nobody is punished.

So again:

While investigating a bug that allowed people to have more than the intended amount of links, the devs found people spamming spells with links to grind channeling and determined it was unsuitable for game balance. That does not mean they were abusing a bug, but just using the system that's been in place for over a decade now, which has been determined to not be healthy for the game (and frankly, it isn't.)

also i just want to say i found it really funny that while i was trying to ask for clarity on "Did people actually abuse the bug commonly or did you just find the base mechanic unsuitable?" the answer was "Yes"

Edited by RainRain
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@DarklordsCan you please explain why faith\god is now going to be shared on pve and pvp? This seems to have nothing to do with channeling. Which the majority of this post is talking about. One of the main draws back to play the new servers for me was the fact I could finally be a priest in pvp and still grind and craft on pve.

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Also unless you are going to put everyone back to 40 channeling that used a bunch of alts and links the links change should also be reverted, its been this way since i started playing wurm, The problem with changing it now is you have people already at 90 channeling this isnt fair to those that have not yet got around to grinding it

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Still I lack each and any understanding for the "burn the witch" faction crying for punishment. I tend to agree that it would be ways more helpful if link restrictions, and addressing the bug of links not breaking in distance, would have been addressed before the launch.

 

Yet - get real, please. In the months before the launch the devs and team were working like dogs not to miss the deadline, fought troubles and bugs emerging (or known), honed the new UI (which still is far from perfect - I want my special attacks back, and ofc umpty hours of SB compensating for not having it now lol), only to find themselves drowning in post launch issues then.

 

I agree so far that the situation that people with sufficiently deep pockets could buy into abundance of favor had to be addressed on the new servers. Mind that it were the old farts knowing the vulnerability of priest mechanics jumping on that. Ok, it is somehow the nature of PvP to start an arms race on all aspects of equipment and mechanics. But those who "wasted" 80 euro or silver for ten alts should have considered the likeliness of balancing. No pity there, too, and no refund as well as no punishment.

 

Only that forced faith transfer I do not understand and would beg to revise. It is likely to restrict freedom of choice in a sandbox game on PvE and PvP side equally, and finally abhor more players to try PvP.

 

 

 

 

Edited by Ekcin

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18 hours ago, Wurmhole said:

Dammit, just eliminate any linking at this point and be done with it.  Why introduce a ton of limitations on linking to make it so complicated and unusable????????  Just eliminate it.  Now make solo priests more viable for gaining skill solo, by having their favor regen faster and do away with saccing.  You want an even playing field?  Server fairness?  Simply remove all the factors that let a priest gain skill faster.

 

Think about it for a moment...

 

Can 3, 8, 20 miners work together to make one of them hit 99 skill faster?  No.

 

Can multiple players work together to help a priest raise channel?  YES.  Linking still helps (barely!!) and 50000 players can work together to farm/craft up sac materials.

 

So, take Saccing for favor OUT of the game, take linking OUT of the game.  Increase favor regen and probably channel skill gains.

 

This current fix of a fix is not going to make many people happy at all.  Horribly unimpressed with this decision.

 

Can you solo level carpentry in first week up to 90 and fine carp to 60? Yes
Can you level channaling  in first week to 50 without links? NO
Eliminate carpentry from the game!

Edited by Nelsy

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6 minutes ago, Nelsy said:

This current fix of a fix is not going to make many people happy at all.  Horribly unimpressed with this decision.

This is not fix, not balance, they just removed links already, no body gonna use them now because it useless, even 2 links useless and not worth money you spend on em.

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will you nerf sermons too? that too hard exploit abuse for faith leveling...

Edited by Nelsy

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If we destroying priests gameplay why to not do it completely? You told you going to find middle ground solution, but all you did for now is just completely ruin linking system, so now no one gonna use it for any porpuse, maybe only to cast 100+ favor spells in non pvp situations, thats all how we can use this links for now.

Edited by Nelsy

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On a side note. I branded my horse on defiance, and I can't equip and unequip horse gear. Is this a bug or intentional?

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3 hours ago, Nelsy said:

 

Can you solo level carpentry in first week up to 90 and fine carp to 60? Yes

no you cant lol

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17 minutes ago, Groot said:

no you cant lol

I know person on Harmony who did it few weeks ago, and what next you gonna tell me? 

Edited by Nelsy

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