Ismira

This game is going to DIE!

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This game is going to DIE as the title says unless things change fast.

 

I have been playing Wurm for about 5/years. With the new servers starting up and Steam my thoughts where excitement until it began. Now we have a serious nerf on priests channeling. (bad decision by the Devs). The players that were taking advantage of it should of been punished/banned etc...for exploiting a bug and now all of us have to pay for their exploitation's.  

 

The Economy:  I know the Dev's can't do much on the economy seeing as its player based, but with these new servers this is turning into a pay to win. Most ppl when you challenge their pricing come back with "its harder to do" I call their ######, its no harder to build a boat, or forge for cotton then it is on Xanadu, Indy, Release etc... Yes there is a shortage because of it being a newer server and I can see a slight increase in buying it but we are looking at a rate of 50-75% increase on everything; I mean really????? when a Knarr is going for 80s and its 20ql with NO windspeed? or when a freaking willow spout is going for 1s, can we say price gouge?. When I bring this to the community of players I get this response "then do it yourself" which tells me they do not understand the meaning of this game. The newer players, and old (older community) are greedy and are ruining this game. I now know of at least 10/ppl that have or will walk away from this game until the economy gets better and I for one might leave as well. I thought about going back to my main on Xanadu, but the old servers are pretty dead. 

 

Wurm online is great game, I love it I even shy away from WU because I loved the economy and players, but now all I see is greed and cheating. I also want to point out that we didn't get the full use of the 30% increase in skill gain because of how bad the servers where with lag and locations being taken up. You opened Melody I ran to it found an amazing spot, but you as Devs haven't given anything back to the community for having to deal with the amount of lag, and crashes and lets not forget about the mine bugs (and no I don't mean cave bugs) etc... You could of at least given us 5/hours sleep bonus to make up for the time we all lost that's what they use to do.

 

I will probably get negative feedback for my post because that's all I received on the newer severs for the reasons I posted above, but it needed to be said. I will probably step back and watch and see how things either change and/or get worse and I'm thinking the ladder. My intentions was never to play Wurm online having to pay to win, the economy is there so people don't have to focus on 20+ skills and max them out, lets be honest you will be here for 10+ years trying to do everything and you still won't have every skilled maxed, people need to remember that the economy is a very important part of Wurm, with all this exploiting and price gouging Wurm online is no longer fun to play.

 

 

 

 

Thanks!

 

Enderman, Ismira, Sintress

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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No, it is not...

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things are worth whatever someone is willing to pay, if someone wants to buy a knarr for 80s or a rare for 35s all the power to them, staff regulating prices would be silly. if everything is expensive enter the market and trade your services for other goods you want/silver to buy things. if you consider buying things off other players with bought silver pay to win then its still pay to win even if the things are cheaper.

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1 minute ago, Oblivionnreaver said:

things are worth whatever someone is willing to pay, if someone wants to buy a knarr for 80s or a rare for 35s all the power to them, staff regulating prices would be silly. if everything is expensive enter the market and trade your services for other goods you want/silver to buy things. if you consider buying things off other players with bought silver pay to win then its still pay to win even if the things are cheaper.

I am not asking the Devs to do anything on the prices, I am pointing out how the price gouges are ruining the economy.

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Posted (edited)

 

ZpoQMHZ.png

Edited by Romadador
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Posted (edited)

I will have to agree - 3 newbs I know of quit as they saw the trade as pay to play or spend 5 years grinding. I explained this is not the norm but it continues. To bad there are others that will troll your post and make nasty comments on what is causing some issues for new and old players. This is a valid issue for some. If it is not for you, don't stop and comment just to make a nasty note. Allow others to have their own opinion as the world does not revolve around you trolls. 

Edited by Silvanoshaya
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The economy in Wurm has always been this way. It is what make it great. The market is dynamic and flows with the natural laws of supply and demand. As more boats enter the market, prices will fall. After it does this, there will be those who complain that it’s not even worth it to make boats to sell because they are so cheap. People will always complain that others are setting their prices too high, but the reality is...if they set their prices lower, it would get bought up before you even had a chance to see it being sold. The market determines the prices that will remain posted. You only see that guy advertising his Knarr for 80s because no one will pay that much, so he posts it over again. It is important to the economy that he does this so that others see that they can post their knarr for 70s to undercut him. As more knarrs are constructed, the price will drop dramatically. The prices should not be based on what things are worth on the old servers. That would completely defeat the purpose of a natural player driven economy.

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This was a good laugh, thanks!

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Posted (edited)

So you mean any other opinions are automatic trolling?

Anyway that demand/supply chart is the very basis of an open economy. Where demand will be lost at given price level, the prices will drop and vica versa. There will be who exit the market at certains levels, others will enter. Where a specific resource is sparse it will be fought over (in this case paying higher price for them). At the beginning on a fresh server all resources are sparse so that is still a balance, "A" mines high ql lumps, sells for an insane price, "B" imps items for insane prices and they buy stuff of each other, balance still present. Will settle over time.

The other end of it is the same and present even in Wurm, I've left the imping market long ago on old freedom as the earnings did not worth the time I spent to do them.

Franky I never understand the rush for best stuff in wurm - there is no end of game to reach here.....

Edited by Jaz
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42 minutes ago, Ismira said:

a Knarr is going for 80s and its 20ql with NO windspeed

On a server that has been up for two weeks.

 

There isn't an economy, there's few people with the capability to reliably produce things past a certain quality so they can sell for whatever they want to people who want to pay. If you're complaining that people are making out like bandits by selling in a high demand environment with no competition then I don't know what to tell you.

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If you think they are overpriced dont buy it or make your own and sell it at a lower price

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Posted (edited)

I agree about the Northern economics.  I have seen an item for sale in the north at more than 1000% of its southern value.  I privately mentioned this to the seller/crafter and they blamed the high cost of BUYING their raw materials and complained about how their suppliers were gouging (at about 500% above SFI value).   It is plainly not sustainable and it seems that many are trying to grab as much as they can before it collapses, ignoring that it is this grabbing as much as you can that will cause the collapse.  People simply cannot afford to keep paying large amounts of money to pour in the large amounts of ingame currency required.  I think the race by players to establish themselves as merchants is misguided - they are treating a brand new server environment as if it were a matured environment where the "frontier" has been settled and development enough to support this kind of business practice.  The northern economy should really still be firmly agragrian and cottage-industrial.  

 

I haven't been back to the north since my first few days.  I could hardly move on Melody due to lag and frankly couldn't find room to do much more than dig.  The number of mobs I saw going down under mobs of players was kind of amusing, though.  From what I can see in the market threads here, I won't be participating in the economy when I do go back.  If I can't make it, beg for it or barter for it I will just do without.  

 

However, I don't agree that the old servers are dead.  I am on Release and the numbers seem (at least subjectively to me) to be about the same, although fluctuating a bit more of late.  There is still active development, and e.g. trade chat is active.  Importantly, although there is infrastructure (not least in importance/effect is a highway system with guard towers) there is also room for plenty to settle.

 

If I was on Melody, I would try to find something I could produce to sell at "reasonable markup" so that I could a) advertise it in trade chat and b) thereafter point out how cheap it can be whenever someone tries to sell similar for a couple of limbs.  I am not there, so can only say what I would do, which is constantly point out how overpriced things are.   Actually I may even pop in every now and then to promote the idea in chat that those who are disenchanted with the northern economy could restart in the south, where it is the player who is welcomed rather than their fat purse.

Edited by TheTrickster
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Posted (edited)

I have been around since 2011, and the prices on the Northern cluster look to me to be quite normal for a new "fresh start" server, which Wurm has experienced before.  

 

It is not at all reasonable to compare them to the old servers where people have been grinding crafting skills for 13 years, and the market there is now flooded with surplus items.

 

The "broken economy" is actually on the older servers, not on the new ones. 

 

 

 

 

Edited by Brash_Endeavors
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14 minutes ago, TheTrickster said:

I agree about the Northern economics.  I have seen an item for sale in the north at more than 1000% of its southern value.  I privately mentioned this to the seller/crafter and they blamed the high cost of BUYING their raw materials and complained about how their suppliers were gouging.   It is plainly not sustainable and it seems that many are trying to grab as much as they can before it collapses, ignoring that it is this grabbing as much as you can that will cause the collapse.  People simply cannot afford to keep paying large amounts of money to pour in the large amounts of ingame currency required.  I think the race by players to establish themselves as merchants is misguided - they are treating a brand new server environment as if it were a matured environment where the "frontier" has been settled and development enough to support this kind of business practice.  The northern economy should really still be firmly agragrian and cottage-industrial.  

 

I haven't been back to the north since my first few days.  I could hardly move on Melody due to lag and frankly couldn't find room to do much more than dig.  The number of mobs I saw going down under mobs of players was kind of amusing, though.  From what I can see in the market threads here, I won't be participating in the economy when I do go back.  If I can't make it, beg for it or barter for it I will just do without.  

 

However, I don't agree that the old servers are dead.  I am on Release and the numbers seem (at least subjectively to me) to be about the same, although fluctuating a bit more of late.  There is still active development, and e.g. trade chat is active.  Importantly, although there is infrastructure (not least in importance/effect is a highway system with guard towers) there is also room for plenty to settle.

 

If I was on Melody, I would try to find something I could produce to sell at "reasonable markup" so that I could a) advertise it in trade chat and b) thereafter point out how cheap it can be whenever someone tries to sell similar for a couple of limbs.  I am not there, so can only say what I would do, which is constantly point out how overpriced things are.   Actually I may even pop in every now and then to promote the idea in chat that those who are disenchanted with the northern economy could restart in the south, where it is the player who is welcomed rather than their fat purse.

Thank you for seeing and speaking on what I have seen I knew I would get some trolls and people that react differently to what I posted. And I don’t expect prices to be the same as the northern servers. I do plan on Selling things if I continue to play so I can at least try and help bring the prices at a reasonable rate. I’m so tired of people stating “if you don’t like the prices make it yourself.” That’s not a response that is needed nor is it necessary to keep posting that I plainly stated in my post.  Obviously I will have to make it myself because I refuse to pay the prices that they are posting but I still however will pointed out. I do hope the economy  and chat didn’t die on the northern surfers because I probably will just go back there.

 

I wish people would try and help get the economy to normal instead of throwing out “do it yourself or if you don’t like it don’t buy it “ that’s not the point the point is we need to fix it if we want this game to be fun again.

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Would you rather peoples hard work cost 50c for an hours work as it does on the 'Southern Freedom Isles'?

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Posted (edited)
11 minutes ago, Rudie said:

Would you rather peoples hard work cost 50c for an hours work as it does on the 'Southern Freedom Isles'?

Your reasoning is it takes too long to make, is that the reason for your price gouging?  Regardless of what anybody on this form says.

 

What bothers me is you guys use that reason to increase prices. I mean honestly the amount of time it takes to make things does not change from server the server it is the same, amount of time, it goes by quality of tools, enchants and of course your lvl, so why are Melody and Harmony prices 75% more expensive than it would be on Xanadu or Indy? It’s the same amount of time the same amount of grind the same amount of forging. I get it’s a new server yes there’s not a surplus but that’s not the reason for you guys increase the rates up 75%  every-time I question someone on why they increase the rate of a said item  "takes too long to make"  that is not a reason to price gouge regardless of what anybody on this form says.

Edited by Ismira

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1 hour ago, Ismira said:

"...which tells me they do not understand the meaning of this game..."


This one line just screams "I'm a Wurm Vet, I have never seen an actual living economy, and now that there is one I'm scared" 

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1 minute ago, IllusiveEn said:


This one line just screams "I'm a Wurm Vet, I have never seen an actual living economy, and now that there is one I'm scared" 

Alrighty then

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, Ismira said:

I mean honestly the amount of time it takes to make things does not change from server the server it’s the same so why is it on melody and harmony more expensive than it would be on Xanadu or Indy? It’s the same amount of time the same amount of grind the same amount of forging

 

 

Umm, no, it does NOT take the same time.

 

They had up to TWELVE YEARS to grind their skills on the older servers. In addition, they had all other tasks/chores long ago taken care of, 99 cooking and farming and mining and everything, huge stone 20x20 storehouses with hundreds of BSBs stuffed with resources collected over many many years,  and no other competition for their time.  When you are level 99 at everything, you easily feed yourself and can cut level 99 logs and make a knarr in a mere fraction of the time using enchanted Q99 tools with COC99.  

 

This is NOT the same time it takes you at 30 shipbuilding and 35 woodcutting with unenchanted level 30 tools, when you are still working out ways to stay fed and to gather supplies. It is not even close. 

 

Let's take your example of "overpriced" cotton.

 

On the old servers, 99 skill farmers with 99q rare enchanted rakes harvest as mush as 10,000 cotton in a  harvest, 20-25 cotton per tile, and add it to their massive storehouses. They have vast plantations that they spent years preparing, carving out of the landscape with their 99 digging.

 

On the new server, someone with low skills spends an hour foraging for a random piece of cotton.  Or maybe they planted one seed and harvested two, six days later.

 

The same amount of time to produce one cotton? Not Hardly. 

 

Yes, as a result, cotton may be as much as 10000 times cheaper on older servers,  because it is quite literally 10000 times easier than on the new servers. 

 

Some people are grinding now to make those few coveted 50Q tools or crates of early cotton because they know there is a limited time to collect higher prices until the entire economy collapses again in massive surpluses everywhere, level 99s everywhere.

 

If you want super cheap prices which collapsed many many years ago, then the southern servers are what you want. 

 

 

Edited by Brash_Endeavors
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Posted (edited)
12 minutes ago, Ismira said:

 

What bothers me is you guys use that reason to increase prices. I mean honestly the amount of time it takes to make things does not change from server the server is the same so why are Melody and Harmony prices 75% more expensive than it would be on Xanadu or Indy? It’s the same amount of time the same amount of grind the same amount of forging.

I can get 100 coc tools for a silver on old servers, and sleep powder for 75c each. i can spam missions for sleep bonus. i have easy access to a bed. I can easily access high ql imping materials. i already have skills grinded up on freedom. I do not have to worry about building a deed, feeding myself, building towers, building roads, building ships to transport my stuff because all of that stuff is already made.

On new servers, i cannot get coc tools for cheap, sleep powder are around 2s each, there is no missions to spam, beds are also hard to make, i cannot access high ql imping materials easily. i have to grind up skills instead of having them already. i have to worry about building a deed, feeding myself, building towers, building roads, building ships to transport my stuff because none of that stuff exists.

 

I hate to break it to you but it's not the same amount of grind. You can grind skills multiple times faster on the old servers due to the abundance of all these different things you can access and less things to worry about. I don't care whatsoever about north freedom economy because i don't play there anymore but you seem to have a very warped perception on the economy.

Edited by Oblivionnreaver
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2/10. This is a poor trolling attempt.

 

This is the BEST time for a newbie. You want to make some cash? Spend a few weeks, grind up a skill, and start selling those sexy, sexy 70QL items. Everyone wants them and almost no one can provide it. You'll be raking in the dough.

Compare that to the old servers and you'll have to grind for months to sell something...and even then, it'll sell for 50c. If you can even find a buyer.

I started 6 months after P/R released and it was a blast. The economy was humming along. People needed stuff but couldn't do everything. Prices were higher...but prices were higher for everything. If you could find your niche, you could make money.

Now everything is so bloated. Everyone can do almost everything. Hell, I can do just about anything on Hailene. Only thing crafting-wise I'm really missing is probably natural substances.

If it makes you feel any better, after 2-3 years, prices will deflate and trade will dry up once everyone (or at least every alliance) can do everything on their own again.

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1 minute ago, Brash_Endeavors said:

 

 

Umm, no, it does NOT take the same time.

 

They had up to TWELVE YEARS to grind their skills on the older servers. In addition, they had all other tasks/chores long ago taken care of, 99 cooking and farming and mining and everything, huge storehouses with hundreds of BSBs stuffed with resources collected over years,  and no other competition for their time.  When you are level 99 at everything, you easily feed yourself and can cut level 99 logs and make a knarr in a mere fraction of the time using enchanted Q99 tools with COC99. They have surplus mats sitting for eight years in a 10x10 stone storage vault with 45 bulk storage bins.

 

This is NOT the same time it takes you at 30 shipbuilding and 35 woodcutting with unenchanted level 30 tools, when you are still working out ways to stay fed and to gather supplies. 

 

 Some people are grinding because they know there is a limited time to collect higher prices until the entire economy collapses again in surpluses everywhere, level 99s everywhere.

 

If you want super cheap prices which collapsed many many years ago, then the southern servers are what you want. 

 

 

That is not true, not everybody that plays on the Northern severs have 12/y or 5 oh even a year behind them, so that is not an accurate statement. Nor they have the tools, and skills to make that said item. So they still have to grind it out.

 

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Posted (edited)
20 minutes ago, Ismira said:

That is not true, not everybody that plays on the Northern severs have 12/y or 5 oh even a year behind them, so that is not an accurate statement. Nor they have the tools, and skills to make that said item. So they still have to grind it out.

 

 

that is EXACTLY WHAT I AM SAYING.  

 

You want the prices of the southern servers where they DO have all those surplus level 99-at-everything crafters with a dozen years of experience and ultra uber tools and massive storehouses of resources -- those do not exist on Northern servers.

 

It is beyond silly to suggest the northern craftspeople can make items "in the same amount of time" as the crafters on the southern isles. 

 

It takes them much much MUCH longer, for the reasons I listed.

 

On the old servers, people have literally thousands and thousands of excess sprouts gathered over years  in massive bsb fortresses. On the new servers, most people maybe have 1 or 2 willow, maybe. That causes a enormous difference in the "value" of that one single willow sprout. No I would never ever pay 1s for one, I would get my cart and go out and find my own. You really should too.

 

 

 

But if you want dirt cheap items (because you just do not feel like doing the work yourself) that is fine, but it is the southern servers you want where all these surplus goods and surplus time exist. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited by Brash_Endeavors
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You do understand (I hope) that people are not simply buying up dirtcheap items on the southern servers and then reselling them at a hefty markup on the northern servers?

 

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The prices will go down eventually and then we have someone else getting hysterical for having to sell an item for 5c less

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