Dranana1

No Alts on at Same time

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4 minutes ago, Xinit said:

 

 

aaand thats how all old server economies are dead. maybe you should play wu with your alts in your private server lol.

 

1 minute ago, Ecrir said:

 

And yet plenty of stuff gets bought and sold all the time. I have a couple of priest alts yet I buy a ton of stuff from other players, doesn't look dead to me. And maybe you should stop trolling by bringing wu into this.

 

Honestly I support what Ecrir says here, the old servers lack people but they got an economy, a big one at that most of it however is in merchants or player run shops on the forum. Then the last bit is probably just skilled people online accepting what passes by in trade chat. For Xinit, mate you seem to not understand how the economy works or just haven't partaken in it.

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Just now, Oblivionnreaver said:

ban alts

 

ban mains while we're at it. Just ban everyone!

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27 minutes ago, SirMuttley said:

Keep in mind that botting and macroing are against the TOS, so while someone *can* have 5 alts running they would keep to bounce around continuously to keep them active. That's a lot of work but the option is there. I'm not sure how many "normal" players would do this. 

 

I have 1 alt and I sometimes load up both at the same time. Why? Not to exploit or screw up the economy but because sometimes staring at an action over and over again is boring as hell. So if I have a toon that is mining or trying to build a knarr, it's nice to have a toon that I can actually "do" something with instead of just queue and watch TV. So, not everyone running more than 1 toon is trying to exploit or dominate, at least in my experience and opinion.

 

Basically this. Actually getting effective use out of 5 characters running simultaneously almost inevitably requires bots or macros early on, which ARE against the rules; eventually you might get all your toons leveled enough that they have ML and Stamina to efficiently be queued up for half a dozen tasks at a time, POSSIBLY allowing for an efficient schedule rotation, but most likely it's going to involve a ton of inefficient flailing about that will cut into the effectiveness of your grinding.

 

Just a hypothesis, but the extent to which a handful of whales could effectively dominate an economy all by themselves with alts may have had more to do with them being allowed to acquire large numbers high-powered accounts through RMTs, not them effectively grinding those dozen toons all at once with multiple clients. And buying and selling accounts is now banned.

 

Being upfront, I am speaking as someone with an alt, who sometimes has both accounts online at the same time, on the same server. I've never tried grinding them both at once, however; I just sometimes want them both to travel to the same place together, or the other day I used my main to convert my alt to a religion. And there's lots of other people with similar stories; no power-gaming exploitation, just enjoying that part of the system in a reasonable fashion.

 

Between the perfectly innocent uses of multiple clients, the rules against bots or macros allowing exploitation, and the loss of character trades allowing a handful of players to acquire large numbers of high-skill accounts, I don't think this is the extreme balance concern that many people think it is.

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Posted (edited)

Clearly -1 to the proposal. To my knowledge, it is not even true that having alts is not possible on steam, I was told so by Wurm Unlimited users. But I am no expert on steam affairs. And, as said, everybody can have accounts both through steam and the wurmonline.com client.

 

First of all, the proposal is totally unrealistic as the company will not drop hundreds of subscriptions of regular longtime users, certainly losing them forever, for such an outlandish idea, together with thousands of €/$ every month on upkeep. It could well spell the suicide of CC/GC to act that way.

 

But gameplay of experienced users would be disrupted as well. Though I am playing for 2 and a half years only, so am basically a noob still, I have a few alts, priest alts in particular. Players who want to hold a second deed on the same server need an alt for, too. And, to add that, building up a decent alt is some work. Priests have first to raise their faith, usually in sermon sessions, which are an excellent way to get in contact with other players, or other players's alts. I had a lot of very pleasant experiences that way. Yet still, a newborn priest has to go a long way til she is really good, in channeling in particular. So having good alts does not ease gameplay at all, and is not cheating. But e.g. for a miner/crafter, a magranon priest alt is a nearly indispensible sidekick.

 

The idea to force players to play together is in no way better than proposals to force players to do PvP. Players do not like and do not want to be forced.

Edited by Ekcin
typo

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This is something that is impossible to enforce. 

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+1 But don't see it happening as there's no way of doing it. It's funny to see no one complain on account sharing but they complain on temporary alts. Me personally not enjoying and having a hard time to get 2 toons going on at same time, it's a way to burn out fast.

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In fact I am not complaining about neither temporary (? wtf is that? ) nor permanent alts, as it is not possible to determine that an alt is temporary other than after the fact without mind reading of the creator. Also, the distinction between alt and main is academic as that is left to the decision of the player commanding the characters, and may change anytime.

 

In fact, actively playing a few toons at once makes sense, e.g. when mining out veins etc., or do bulk creation on one, and hunting/exploring on another one. That rather hinders burning out from boredom.

 

But I tried once to fight on a rift with my crafter and priest character at a time, and it was not possible sensibly, at least not for me. It is good anyway to bring my priest to rifts to summon others.

 

Still -1, no point to patronize and rule into other players' playstyle. This is a sandbox game.

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I don't use alts, and have no intention of starting - unless we count the mandatory new character required to access the new servers (HINT: I don't).  That said, there are a number of game mechanics that require either alts or in-game friends being in-game at the same time on a reliable basis (for a global game).  I have chosen not to participate in those mechanics, as the price for not alting (although 1-man bridge planning and building should be a thing for at least small spans).  Unless and and until those mechanics are altered to eliminate any need for alts the ability to us them should not be curtailed at all.  They have been encouraged by the game for a long time (a point of distinction for Wurm) so to just take them away from the pre-existing player base because they don't work under a new launch mechanism is almost exactly the wrong way to go.

 

The fix is to fix it, not break it for everybody.  Imagine taking your new car back to the dealer because the passenger door won't stay closed and their action is to issue a recall of previous models so they can break the passenger door on every other car, too.

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1 hour ago, Ekcin said:

no point to patronize and rule into other players' playstyle. This is a sandbox game.

 

Can we have an "Amen"?

 

Let's hear this bit again;

 

1 hour ago, Ekcin said:

This is a sandbox game.

 

Amen.

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Posted (edited)

A huge -1 to this idea of no alts. And I usually only have 2 alts prem'd at one time. I have a huge project on Xan that requires extensive terraforming, and having 2 toons (because my computer chokes on 3) doing it is the only way i'll get it done in less than 2 years. And no, the economy isn't dead, I regularly send out tools to be imp'd or sell dirt (dirt cheap btw, just saying). Anyway, if you don't like that steam limits you to 1 toon, use the WO client instead, it's better for the game anyway.

Edited by DaletheGood
spelling

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Ok I am not talking about the alts that are premium nor the priest alts, what gets me going is the alts that are never prim'd and are use for bulk items as slave labor. No one benefits from this honestly, if you want to prim your alt then fine go for it but dont just have them so you can use them to make as much silver as possible and undercut other sellers because you can have 10 alts making bricks and such. In my opinion this is what killed most of the market on the old server.

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6 hours ago, Dranana1 said:

Ok I am not talking about the alts that are premium nor the priest alts, what gets me going is the alts that are never prim'd and are use for bulk items as slave labor. No one benefits from this honestly, if you want to prim your alt then fine go for it but dont just have them so you can use them to make as much silver as possible and undercut other sellers because you can have 10 alts making bricks and such. In my opinion this is what killed most of the market on the old server.

Lemme ask you this, why does it matter that others are utilizing the game how they wish with it being within the rules?

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On 7/30/2020 at 8:18 PM, Dranana1 said:

I am sad to say that you can't have alts on at the same time as your main character if you do Steam. I think to reflect the fairness and what was hoped for when the new servers came out, I think the old client need to not be able to have alts on it at the same time as well.  Otherwise this puts new players on the Steam servers at a disadvantage and makes the Steam client less appealing to players. Also I hate to say it but alts do kind of destroy economies as not one want to pay for labor if their computer can just handle more accounts at the same time. 

 

I know old time players may think this is a bad idea but please leave constructive comments and suggestion on how do fix this issue or the new servers may end up looking like the old servers do in any a few months.

 

https://steamcommunity.com/app/1179680/discussions/0/2793873197766913293/

 

Looks like somebody already figured out how to run multiple steam clients

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Posted (edited)
On 7/30/2020 at 11:45 PM, Dranana1 said:

Ok I am not talking about the alts that are premium nor the priest alts, what gets me going is the alts that are never prim'd and are use for bulk items as slave labor. No one benefits from this honestly, if you want to prim your alt then fine go for it but dont just have them so you can use them to make as much silver as possible and undercut other sellers because you can have 10 alts making bricks and such. In my opinion this is what killed most of the market on the old server.

 

Why does this even matter? Are you personally affected by it? If so, in what way?

 

People are going to undercut other people on the market alts or not. What you are saying about the market has literally nothing to do with the alt but just general market practices. The next step would be to blame the hens for people with large deed sizes.

Edited by Yumi
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Posted (edited)

Well due to my "condition" I have almost no attention sharing capabilities, so this is impossible for me to play more than one character or even watch TV while playing etc., so everyone who can do that have a huge advantage over me, yet I do not call to nerf the gameplay of people who are better than I am at something. They are, so they can profit from it. I do observe here on forum that a person A calls to nerf something of a game play of person B just because they don't like it, plus the nasty assumptions; one wants a rule clarified - they surely bend them and want to do shady things and get away with it, one plays 5 chars at once - they surely macro etc., etc. The no multi boxing rule was always pain to enforce and always brought a lot of conflicts between the community and staff and there were no measurable benefits of banning that so it tended to become a dead law. 

Edited by Platyna
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From a personal perspective I can understand someone else's "need" for alts but at the same time I also can't understand the "need" too.
I am guilty of queuing actions with an alert notification via Wurm Assistant for my 1 character I focus on and in the meantime either browsing forums, watching Netflix or tending to house-hold chores in the general area of my PC.
Having a Priest Alt is understandable in the terms of Priest restrictions, except it also eliminates that need to seek an outside source on an economic level too. If you've a Priest or multiple Priests of each religion you have no need to outsource what your priests can do. If everyone did this, there would be no market for priest casts and abilities. So from my perspective here, those who Alt priests to the larger degree are only hurting themselves and other priests on the Economy side of things. Priests and their Spells are typically a highly sought after thing, but they become less so when everyone can just do it themselves. Which is why the Priest Restrictions were put into place in the first place, was it not?

Now I'm not necessarily saying that if one plays a priest you've screwed yourself simply because of their restrictions, but it does encourage more so that Economy and Community interaction because of that choice. Priests are also still able to do quite a bit, which of course does vary on which Deity they're following but that doesn't render them completely useless outside of spell castings either.

I'm seeing a lot "Join someone else's community" mentioned to the new players who are coming back with "I can't afford a Deed!", but this is the same solution to those who also want to say they use multiple alts for massive projects too. Community is what drives projects and economy. Alts not really, it creates a separation and a stagnation of that Community and Economy whether one may realize it or not.
Multiple Alts to terraform/mass craft vs Village team-work or Hiring outside Laborers.

Given this is a sandbox everyone is entitled to play as they please to do so, I cannot say that I could ever imagine participating in the "Alt" thing as others do. I do feel it's harmful to said community and economy no matter how you look at it.
So I am torn on whether to feel supportive of this suggestion or deny it.

+1 due to economy/community penalties
-1 for trying to control how others play their game.

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It’s perfectly possible to run more than one client at a time on steam, players on WU have been doing it for years, it needs one text file and one shortcut to the launcher , that’s all.

 

Should we use alts? It’s been a wurm staple for so long that it’s perfectly ordinary. I use alts, granted I tend not to use have them both on at the same time, but I can do, in wurm or steam, WU or WO, Steam or Wurm client.

 

alts are permitted, they have been for over 10 years I’ve played Wurm. By all means, remove alts, but make sure we remove all of them, restrict accounts to one character only, ever, no more 5 accounts per email, only one email account, or steam account, find a way to prevent simple workarounds to multiple characters on steam, (it’s actually easier to prevent alts in Wurm client than Steam ), but many old players who have more than one high level characters they use regularly will find it hard to continue on with just one. 
 

Alts are a part of Wurm now, removing them will be hard, not technically, but in terms of what it will do to the community.

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the year is 2022, alts in wurm have finally been banned

you have a child, they have grown old enough to play games

you introduce them to your life, the thing called wurm

they enjoy riding cows, you have a smile across your face

open the launcher, you wish to play with your child and create memories

denied, because someone on steam didn't know how to play an alt

you smile

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Alts really don't bring anything positive to the table unless some minor income for the owners of the game via subs.

 

People use alts for 1) Bank alts. Necessary in pvp, useless in Pve. There are so many protections in PvE that bank alts are useless.

 

2. Priest alts. Again this only leads to the outcome of people providing for themselves and not participate in Wurm's trade chat.

 

3. PvP alts. Those alts that have medium skill level range and the necessary PvP setup, (meditation, FS, archery, can ride a horse, etc.) so they can turn the tide of combat.

 

4. Crafting alts. Spam bricks all day or whatever you want. This tends to create an influx of too many items on the market in the long run from a single source.

 

I would be pro-banning alts as long as players declared what alts belong to them and if they would get a reimbursement for them. Both in terms of current premium (that can be transferred to the main) and a small gift or something based on the alt's skill.

 

Then again the issue is with priests. No one wants to play a priest main due to how wurm is designed. It's very restrictive. Most priests are alts. If you ban those, you'd end up banning most priests. Lot of people main priests in pvp but on the Freedom side of things, they won't be happy if their alts are banned.

 

This might be solved if people simply had on their Profile a declaration of who's your main and who's your alt. You can have a max of 1 alt, no more on your main.

If it turns out you use more than 1 alt, then ban the player as a warning to others. Might seem as a punishing system but then again alts have been abused so heavily that I don't see any other form of imposing such (theoretical) rules.

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Posted (edited)

You cannot remove alts in any way. Couse people always can make a new account linked to another e-mail and use it's "main" as an alt.

 

I bet that 90% of current Wurm players would be against removing alts anyway.

 

Not to mention, that each premmed alt is just extra cash for CCAB.

 

 

Edited by Wilczan

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I have alts, but I also run dual mains. They support each other, and have little over lap in skill. Without either of them, I would have a hard time supporting myself, let alone do any commerce short of buying silver from the store for everything I need. I sell a lot from the market, I buy from the market, I would not play if I couldn't run both mains. And the money I spend on premium, far outweighs any I would spend on silver. So from an economic stand point, Wurm would lose for banning alts.

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Posted (edited)

If there wouldn't be the premium alts Wurm would have vanished long ago. Just look at the population on old servers and divide it by 4 because thats the number of active players. And I see no problem with alts if they are paid for, it's not worse as if there are more players. And everyone knows that playing a priest as main is close to impossible. Getting rid of alts is total BS.

Edited by Wyndolm

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Posted (edited)

Alts on the Pve side don't do much harm Wyndolm

 

But on PvP they have been a cancer for years. And I am not just talking about obvious known things like stealthing alts in mines to check locals and such, but many players pvping on alts, griefing on them, using alts to increase boat speed , spamming out missions/exploiting scenario tickets on the old valrei system,  etc.There's god knows how many complaints about alt abuse for pvp, which I honestly believe contributed to the toxic atmosphere that led to many players quitting pvp forever. Epic/Chaos is dead for a reason. Alt abuse was part of it, not the sole reason, but part of it.

 

If people boil down everything to the economic argument, then please look at the final outcome where Epic is downright dead, and half the population there are made out of alts. Which is what? 30 people? If alts contribute to people leaving in the dozens, then maybe a rethink if game design/monetization is necessary. Those precious alts that "kept the game alive" also made a lot of people quit as well.

 

And if for no other reason, it's just a shitty way to play a game overall, making multiple accounts just to support one. I never liked it. I hate the idea of "needing" an alt to do something like securing my stuff. Make a better game design instead of discussing this issue back and forth with no solution. For example extend the banking limit of items. Limiting to 5 items is just....too low at this point.

 

If people really don't see the damage alts can do on the PvP side, then sorry to say this but Wurm Online Epic was a sad failed experiment if nothing was learned from it.

 

Good luck with the Steam reviews for Defiance when history repeats itself.

 

Edited by elentari

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