Is It Moot To Have PVE Travel Restrictions?

[Eyesgood 2,121]

We are a few days into the Steam launch and I would be willing to say there are already some titled players, lots of them.  While I completely understand the need to allow Defiance to grow from a new player base for a great while, I wonder just how beneficial it is to the PVE community to keep North and South isolated from each other.  Steam players can already head South if they wish.  What is the underlining reasoning for this?  I cannot imagine it would be financial as Wurm is FTP.  Someone help me understand the reasoning for isolating new players from old every time Wurm discovers new lands.

[Chakron 1,025]

Because 20 people with 90 body strength will just walk over and destroy everyone.

[Haseroths 60]

1 hour ago, Eyesgood said:

We are a few days into the Steam launch and I would be willing to say there are already some titled players, lots of them.  While I completely understand the need to allow Defiance to grow from a new player base for a great while, I wonder just how beneficial it is to the PVE community to keep North and South isolated from each other.  Steam players can already head South if they wish.  What is the underlining reasoning for this?  I cannot imagine it would be financial as Wurm is FTP.  Someone help me understand the reasoning for isolating new players from old every time Wurm discovers new lands.

because they would need to completely separate defiance from the rest then, if they allow high level accounts from sailing to harmony and portal to defiance it would kill the server. 

[Brash_Endeavors 4,735]

1 hour ago, Eyesgood said:

 Someone help me understand the reasoning for isolating new players from old every time Wurm discovers new lands.

 

 

They are not isolated, there are plenty of experienced and veteran players on the Northern islands helping the new players learn the game. Apparently you are there since you already have earned a title! Congratulations! You won Wurm!

 

The reason for keeping them separate is because only a small number of these new players want to play on worlds that have been ten or more years in development, are no longer "wilderness" by any stretch of imagination, with players who have a 5-10 year head start on them. They will never be an important part of an economy (which is already badly broken by years of RMT sales and exploits).

 

They are excited because these are new worlds, yes they have a major disadvantage in not being as clever about the game as old hands, but at least they do not have a ten year gap in skills possessions levels items in addition to the gap in knowledge. 

 

The reason we had nearly  1200 players on just Harmony the first day, with more trying to get in but unable to due to technical issues, is because they WANT these fresh chances on fresh worlds.

 

That's why Harmony now has 918 players even though they could easily join the 79 people on similarly sized Independence.

 

That's why Melody has 378 players who could have chosen instead to join the 14 on Celebration.

 

That's why Defiance has 414 players instead of them just joining the 10 on the Epic Cluster. 

 

We usually have 30-60 just going through the tutorial system on Haven at any particular time, AND we have uncounted numbers of new players popping up one the old servers to boot.

 

 

That's almost 2000 new players in Wurm right this very minute,   and probably 5000 new players overall (offline getting sleep, at work, spending time with family. Spending a third of your life in a game gets to be exhausting!)

You physically join those servers, with the veteran 100 level players loading up their caravels, sailing over in their dragon armor and wunderswords to land grab and put  up fantastic castles overnight and taking over the economy while the new players are still in wood shacks learning to milk a cow, and I guarantee you that most of those 5000 new players flooding the system, will simply walk away in disgust.

 

This is the best thing that has happened to Wurm in years, don't kill the golden goose because you are greedy.

 

If you want to help the new players, instead of hyper grinding up a couple of skills chasing a title, why not stay low level, make a New Player Academy, and teach instead of dominate ?

 

Let someone else be the "winner" this time. Let Wurm be the winner this time.

 

 

 

 

 

Edited July 27, 2020 by Brash_Endeavors

[Tor 521]

Well, i don't really care if they are connected or not, i play on both. It's good to see so many new and old players discovering and rediscovering wurm. However i don't agree with brash endevors in here that's pretty much telling or suggesting to a new players what they should be disgusted with and what they should like. God forbid a new players to have a chance to see what long time players have accomplished

 

It's like saying, no one shall join Melody and Harmony a year from now because there 2000 players have had a year headstart and it would just be disgusting for a the new players

Edited July 27, 2020 by Tor

[Brash_Endeavors 4,735]

 

3 minutes ago, Tor said:

God forbid a new players to have a chance to see what long time players have accomplished

 

 

They currently can roll up a character and go admire your many accomplishments if they want to, and ohh and ahh over everything you've accomplished over the years.

 

Apparently they don't want to.   They want to build their own world instead of just admiring someone else's world. That's why Wurm was dying. 

 

I am not telling new players what to do or think, THEY have been telling us for years and years, and this weekend they put it to a very clear demonstration.

 

 

 

Edited July 27, 2020 by Brash_Endeavors

[Tor 521]

1 minute ago, Brash_Endeavors said:

 

 

 

They can go admire your many accomplishments if they want to, and ohh and ahh over everything you've accomplished over the years.

 

Apparently they don't want to.   They want to build their own world instead of just admiring someone else's world.

 

But they are certainly free to roll up a character and pop over for a looksee any time.

 

 

It's nothing about me, i don't really have nothing to show in term of buildings or rarity. I was talking in general.

 

But yeah, they can feel free to be disgusted too, apparently

[BDCKoolaid 106]

Came here with pitchfork in hand, but I see that @Brash_Endeavorshas already pretty much handled everything. Good job. Great and valid points

 

[Eyesgood 2,121]

1 hour ago, Brash_Endeavors said:

 

 

They are not isolated, there are plenty of experienced and veteran players on the Northern islands helping the new players learn the game. Apparently you are there since you already have earned a title! Congratulations! You won Wurm!

 

The reason for keeping them separate is because only a small number of these new players want to play on worlds that have been ten or more years in development, are no longer "wilderness" by any stretch of imagination, with players who have a 5-10 year head start on them. They will never be an important part of an economy (which is already badly broken by years of RMT sales and exploits).

 

They are excited because these are new worlds, yes they have a major disadvantage in not being as clever about the game as old hands, but at least they do not have a ten year gap in skills possessions levels items in addition to the gap in knowledge. 

 

The reason we had nearly  1200 players on just Harmony the first day, with more trying to get in but unable to due to technical issues, is because they WANT these fresh chances on fresh worlds.

 

That's why Harmony now has 918 players even though they could easily join the 79 people on similarly sized Independence.

 

That's why Melody has 378 players who could have chosen instead to join the 14 on Celebration.

 

That's why Defiance has 414 players instead of them just joining the 10 on the Epic Cluster. 

 

We usually have 30-60 just going through the tutorial system on Haven at any particular time, AND we have uncounted numbers of new players popping up one the old servers to boot.

 

 

That's almost 2000 new players in Wurm right this very minute,   and probably 5000 new players overall (offline getting sleep, at work, spending time with family. Spending a third of your life in a game gets to be exhausting!)

You physically join those servers, with the veteran 100 level players loading up their caravels, sailing over in their dragon armor and wunderswords to land grab and put  up fantastic castles overnight and taking over the economy while the new players are still in wood shacks learning to milk a cow, and I guarantee you that most of those 5000 new players flooding the system, will simply walk away in disgust.

 

This is the best thing that has happened to Wurm in years, don't kill the golden goose because you are greedy.

 

If you want to help the new players, instead of hyper grinding up a couple of skills chasing a title, why not stay low level, make a New Player Academy, and teach instead of dominate ?

 

Let someone else be the "winner" this time. Let Wurm be the winner this time.

 

 

 

 

 

Was all that directed at me?  You could not be more mistaken.  I am not there nor do I plan to play there.  I have no interest in starting over after 11+ years of playing Wurm.  No thanks.  I was simply asking a legitimate question because I don't know of any other MMO that isolates the player base every time some new lands are added and I am curious to know why the devs do this and what people think about it.  That's it... Nothing more...

[Retrograde 12,013]

27 minutes ago, Eyesgood said:

Was all that directed at me?  You could not be more mistaken.  I am not there nor do I plan to play there.  I have no interest in starting over after 11+ years of playing Wurm.  No thanks.  I was simply asking a legitimate question because I don't know of any other MMO that isolates the player base every time some new lands are added and I am curious to know why the devs do this and what people think about it.  That's it... Nothing more...

Think of it as opening another server on another MMO, nor another zone. 

 

The goal is to allow organic skill and economy growth, with new players being able to progress through the natural server growth as opposed to being thrust into an ultra developed world. Xanadu had high skilled players joining it quickly and soon all feeling of exploration and growth was lost as the massive deeds with castles and cities were popping up, canals were bring broken through at record speed due to high mining and enchanted picks, and priest casts. 

 

A fresh start with fresh players allows people to experience that feeling of conquering the land that you had when you started 11 years ago. 

 

This is why we want to keep it separate, I hope that helps explain things. 

 

[McGarnicle 1,463]

Sounds like you want to make sweet sweet silver selling all those new lowbie characters.

 

As Brash has already pointed out...the new players are given a choice. They Chan choose to play on well established servers or fresh new servers. It is clear that the majority would rather fresh servers. If you connect the north with the south, you effectively force the new players to play on well established servers. 

[Monkeyworm 9]

As a newer Wurm Online player, (Played thousands of hours on WU) I can say, the servers should be isolated. The problem with new players and WO old servers is you would log in, see all these big buildings, and would want to go build them right away. But then land is a problem, you have to deal with skilling, and all this other stuff which is not fun for new players. With the new servers, new people feel welcome, as everyone is starting at the same place, instead of having people who are 90 masonry just walking around, able to build houses and such.

Also, instead of you feeling like you are messing with history and such on the old servers, and can't be apart of it, you are making the history on the new servers, as you build your deed and learn the game.

But this is just my take as a newer player of WO.

[Tek 99]

I agree with what most have said, having them divided makes sense. One day maybe they will join them but launching on steam it was the right choice to make. However, my one thought where I might be the unpopular opinion side here is some of the pointing to the population of the new servers versus the old cluster and saying that it was a loud and clear that it was what was wanted. As I shared some of my thoughts in another post recently some of the wording used both on steam, the pinned steam discussions, the official streams, and the popular twitch streams it was heavily pushed to the new steam players that they should be playing on the new servers. As well as calling things "old" which sort of set a different tone. I spent a good 30+ hours in various streams over the weekend and it was not uncommon for there to be confusion with people thinking steam client could only go to the new servers, and that the "old" cluster was for the vets. What I personally would have liked to happen would have been sticking in official things as North and South Freedom, and maybe stating that one is fresh for the launch and one is the existing cluster that has been around forever - but that both were accessible and options for new players depending what they wanted to do. I also feel like the forum title "old freedom market" sort of implies that its some ancient archive to be.

 

But other than those issues, I completely agree they should be divided until the time comes where there is not much critical difference between clusters. And I do hope this isn't all some long term plan to gradually close the "old" chapter of wurm for the new.

[Tor 521]

I don't disagree that is the best for the new and the old servers to be separated, but there's some negative vibes and perhaps some hatred from certain players towards old players/servers that needs to be addressed

 

Soon or later the new becomes old and ask yourself if you really wanna be treated like this in a year or few

 

[DaletheGood 1,073]

Agree 100% with you Brash

[xxxpoisonxxx 57]

I would not consider myself as being a vet, as i have only been playing for a few years but i do agree that plunging new players into a fully developed world bristling with massive mansions, castles and highway systems can be a little overwhelming. Personally i have always helped new players and have never sought any admiration for my accomplishments or earned silver off them. I am sure that there might be the one or two unscrupulous older player looking to take advantage, but i would like to think that the majority would be welcoming of new players. The point raised by Tek is valid, the new servers have been pushed, even in a pinned topic under the steam discussions.

 

PSA all new steam players

The game will start you on the tutorial island, Golden Valley, from there it will give you many portals to choose from.

You will want to join HARMONY(PVE) and DEFIANCE (if you want PVP) where all the new players will be.

 

https://steamcommunity.com/app/1179680/discussions/0/3880365909903427772/

 

Leave it up to the new players where they want to play.  Playing on Deliverance i know of a few area's that have NEVER had a deed on them, they could join the server and not see or interact with a soul if that was their wish, at least it could alleviate some of the overcrowding on the new servers. We are all playing the same game, not old servers / new servers.

[Ecrir 887]

8 hours ago, Haseroths said:

because they would need to completely separate defiance from the rest then, if they allow high level accounts from sailing to harmony and portal to defiance it would kill the server. 

 

Not really, you'd only need an extra restriction to be added to the portal, and that is: Only accounts made since the steam launch can use it.

There, problem solved

 

Besides that I agree with what is being said about keeping the north and south clusters seperate for the time being. But if Defiance portals with the above restriction could also be added to the South cluster then I don't see why not.

Edited July 28, 2020 by Ecrir

[griper 535]

I think the server separation is necessary.

 

Let the new guys get a chance to feel important. That is what will keep them playing.

 

(And I always hate to see rare/fantastic stuff in starter towns because players cannot build that and it diminishes player accomplishments)

Edited July 28, 2020 by griper

[Strider 0]

Literally the only reason I'm playing is coz it's all new, that's the fun. If/when it connects I'll go play a diff game 😂

[Eyesgood 2,121]

9 hours ago, Retrograde said:

Think of it as opening another server on another MMO, nor another zone. 

 

The goal is to allow organic skill and economy growth, with new players being able to progress through the natural server growth as opposed to being thrust into an ultra developed world. Xanadu had high skilled players joining it quickly and soon all feeling of exploration and growth was lost as the massive deeds with castles and cities were popping up, canals were bring broken through at record speed due to high mining and enchanted picks, and priest casts. 

 

A fresh start with fresh players allows people to experience that feeling of conquering the land that you had when you started 11 years ago. 

 

This is why we want to keep it separate, I hope that helps explain things. 

 

It does, Retrograde.  Thank you.

[xReesex 47]

I like the separation. I think it's good for new players to experience a new server. Long term i think they will stay the same reason most of us have stayed on our original deeds. We put years of work into them and dont want to abandon them. I rolled a new char on Melody to help a friend who started playing last week. So far it has been fun to watch the noobies build and explore... and drown 😐 I am jealous of my friend because working on his deed i can look across the bay and see other players hard at work on their own deeds. Wish i had that on Xanadu.. but oh well..

 

I do hope one day they link them with the rest of us so i have more customers for wares. 🤑 But doing too soon could ruin it.

[Zenity 728]

As one of the players with 10 or so years experience, I relish the chance to start again on a new cluster, to discover again that feeling of exploration, watching skills grow as I go, yes i am more experienced, but i'm not more skilled than many after the few days of play we've had, I don't miss the chance to lord over the newbies with my priest and my fighter with skills they may take years to reach, i'm the same as everyone else here, and the sense of community is great.

 

[Zalxis 89]

A a long time player... Moving north and building my first large cart with 1QL nails and planks (that took like forever) was a great and rewarding experience. My main would have done that in a minute... But it wouldn't have been the same 😉

So it's great that new servers are isolated. New start feels always fresh. Hell, other games made a fortune from playing alts.

[Eyesgood 2,121]

30 minutes ago, Zalxis said:

A a long time player... Moving north and building my first large cart with 1QL nails and planks (that took like forever) was a great and rewarding experience. My main would have done that in a minute... But it wouldn't have been the same 😉

So it's great that new servers are isolated. New start feels always fresh. Hell, other games made a fortune from playing alts.

 

Some older players might remember my Surviverman series where I created a new player to blog about the new player experience many years ago.  I know that feeling well and I appreciate it.  My reason for this thread was centered around the business decision that drives CC to isolate new players since this is something I haven't seen in any other MMO that I have played.  I agree with most of the posts in the thread, except of course for those who totally mis-characterized and/or perhaps misunderstood my intentions.  I have long said the new-player experience is one of the greatest experiences in all of Wurm.  I wouldn't want to spoil that for anyone.

[Brash_Endeavors 4,735]

 

My apologies then. Too many posts from too many players who ARE eager to see the new lands opened just so they can either turn the new players into new consumers for their wares (without giving them a chance to make their own blacksmiths and craftspeople), or who want to sail over and make huge monuments to show off their skills. Not enough people actually thinking about the new players. I remembered your Surviverman series so it had seemed odd coming from you, but we HAVE been inundated with such posts about opening up the new lands from experienced players who are itchy for a "challenge" that does not involve learning to make a cart again, and primarily hoping to use new players as a means to bolster the broken economies on the old servers.

 

I can pretty much assure you that on servers with 400 and 900 players, many of whom are old wurm players finally returning to the game after years away, the true new players do not feel "isolated". I can also assure you that there are not a lot of "titles" out there except maybe Trollslayer (with substantial help from a spirit templar).  In fact there may not be any -- I know a high level competitive weaponsmith from old servers who is finally hitting the 20s in Mining and Blacksmithing, and that is way ahead of the majority of the server.  Not all that many people even have their 1x2 wood shacks done yet as they are still struggling with terraforming and building basic Carpentry skills.  In fact, I know some longtime players who do not even have a basic house finished yet, so the idea of pushing to open the servers is kind of a horrifying though of what the result would be.

 

Again, my apologies for misinterpreting your intents. This really is a much better system for the brand new players. As far as MMO analogies go, it would be like Blizzard opening the new WoW Classic servers, then a week later announcing endgame players from any other server could transfer over with all of their levels, raiding gear, etc.

 

 

Edited July 28, 2020 by Brash_Endeavors