ArthurHawkwing

Steam Servers Markets and Portals

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I think we all should take a moment and make sure we are not shooting WURM in the foot by being Greedy, could we be setting up two huge mistakes in our Veterans rush and land grab? Could the Portal only link to the new Wild server be a doom to new players who decide they do not like or were not cut out for the PVP, forcing them to leave all they built there on Wild?

 

I have to wonder about this as the Steam Server Launch is about attracting New Players and growing WURMs overall population. Many of us Veterans are planning to go to the new Steam PVE server and start new deeds, markets, etc. But also could we be killing WURM by being so focused on our fascinations with Markets and Driving a new server economy? What if we by doing this end up driving away many New players as we have already learned from mistakes and know how and what to do, like don't poke Trolls with sticks and that it will take 5 of us to kill a rat, not likely but hey. I think everyone of us needs to take a step back and realize, COULD we be shooting ourselves in the foot? Also there is no RMT any more and silvers are only worth that, Deed upkeep and play time. Also, and i shall start a separate thread for this, but having the PVP server Portal access only is a bad idea. What about new players that get established over there, build a ship, wagon, collect some nice stuff decide PVP isn't for them. Are we expecting them to carry what they can on their backs and start over on the Freedom Server? I think that needs some serious re-thinking. This whole Steam thing is about NEW PLAYERS and retaining them. 

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Posted (edited)

Being able to hide all of your valuables on the PvE server is a big hindrance to the PvP experience. PvP is all about consequences, and there are very few when you have unlimited safe storage just across the sea.

As far as players deciding that PvP is not for them, they still have their skills, even if they lose all of their items. Items, especially items gained in the early game (which is logically when people decide if PvP is for them or not), are easily replaceable. Skills, meanwhile, are a huge time investment.

Imo, CodeClub chose the rules perfectly for these servers. They are encouraging healthy PvP practices, while not being overly punishing if people realize it's not for them.

Edited by Razorblade
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16 minutes ago, Razorblade said:

Being able to hide all of your valuables on the PvE server is a big hindrance to the PvP experience. PvP is all about consequences, and there are very few when you have unlimited safe storage just across the sea.

As far as players deciding that PvP is not for them, they still have their skills, even if they lose all of their items. Items, especially items gained in the early game (which is logically when people decide if PvP is for them or not), are easily replaceable. Skills, meanwhile, are a huge time investment.

Imo, CodeClub chose the rules perfectly for these servers. They are encouraging healthy PvP practices, while not being overly punishing if people realize it's not for them.

 

I'm really glad Steam PvP is going to be like Epic with skill transfers back and forth to PvE.

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ya but Epic has almost zero population, and many have never gone there just because you can't take items, I call BS on that, its a poor practice and who cares if people hide their loot on Freedom,  I have played many other games with looting etc and all I can say is people want to be able to travel back and forth and take their stuff either way. 

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50 minutes ago, ArthurHawkwing said:

ya but Epic has almost zero population, and many have never gone there just because you can't take items, I call BS on that, its a poor practice

It's a lot more likely that people don't go to Epic because you lose your skills that take years to grind, not items that are generally replaceable.

52 minutes ago, ArthurHawkwing said:

and who cares if people hide their loot on Freedom

People who would like that loot to be theirs. That is the point of PvP, after all. If you have nothing to gain, there's no reason to risk the clothes on your back by fighting other players. It's not like people are showing up just for the "thrilling" Wurm Online combat.

56 minutes ago, ArthurHawkwing said:

I have played many other games with looting etc and all I can say is people want to be able to travel back and forth and take their stuff either way. 

Well at least one player disagrees, so you can't really speak for everyone.

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bleh its pointless arguing with the 10 same people who never want any changes to WURM, 

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Posted (edited)
48 minutes ago, ArthurHawkwing said:

bleh its pointless arguing with the 10 same people who never want any changes to WURM, 

Your ad hominem attack does your point no justice. I am certainly far from part of the Wurm old guard that you are describing. A large part of my Wurm PvP experience was being the only member of HotS, and by far the lowest skilled player on Chaos. I have had my starter gear robbed by players that could easily one-shot me. I was the exact kind of person you are trying to protect with your "no consequences" policies.

 

But regardless, if PvP is supposed to allows us to simulate warfare, then there need to be lines of production that can be interrupted. If people can generate infinite gear and materials free of consequence, the only way to defeat your enemies is to wait for them to get bored of the purposeless PvP and quit. You can't win a war of attrition against someone who cannot experience attrition because the game mechanics make it so easily avoidable. Think about how valuable the starter 50ql sword is going to be in the early days of PvP, when no one can make anything better. Kingdoms are going to live and die based on who can manage to hold onto those swords. And the first time someone is able to craft something better, it's going to be a major turning point for their kingdom. Every soldier and crafter has immense value under this system. Even the newest player has an effect on the world.

 

Now imagine, instead, a few weeks in, someone teleports in from the PvE server with hundreds of 50+ quality weapons and armor, the skills to craft stone walls, and all of the stone and mortar one could ever need to build a fortress. Suddenly, a kingdom has everything they need to steamroll the others, and the PvP players had absolutely no way to influence this outcome. If these resources had to be gained on the PvP server itself, you have ways to influence the outcome. You can steal their swords, or their iron, or collapse their mines. You can push the enemy off of valuable land. That is a true PvP experience, and I think that's what most people would want out of Wurm PvP: a way to truly influence the world with strategy and warfare. If the key to making an impact on the PvP server is deeding off the most valuable land on the PvE server, and grinding alone until you can produce infinite weapons and dirt walls that stretch miles into the air, the PvP experience will be doomed to fail.

Edited by Razorblade
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46 minutes ago, ArthurHawkwing said:

bleh its pointless arguing with the 10 same people who never want any changes to WURM, 

You were met with genuine arguments and rather than continue discussing you just rage some bs and throw in the towel. Bravo

What's pointless is completely leaving new players to their own devices by not at least giving the option of purchasing tools, gear, etc. from vets. 

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1 hour ago, ArthurHawkwing said:

bleh its pointless arguing with the 10 same people who never want any changes to WURM, 

 It sounds like what you want is to be able to raid anyone who decided to make a deed on the PvP server with no real consequences for your actions.

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Posted (edited)

 I can only suggest trust those who work for the game and let them decide.

 

Edited by lowborn
Cant delete my post

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Posted (edited)
21 hours ago, ArthurHawkwing said:

But also could we be killing WURM by being so focused on our fascinations with Markets and Driving a new server economy?

 

I guess it depends on how far people will take it with their fascination of the economy. The one thing I don't want to see relative to the economy on the new server is a wal-mart styled mega-village in which vets are grouping up to aim for a monopoly on a large number of markets. Vets relative to their knowledge of Wurm, not relative to length of time on the new server. I know of at least two groups that want to do this already and both groups want a monopoly on every market in Wurm within the new server. I'd much rather see something a bit more organic happen with the economy and personally speaking, I'll buy from anywhere other than a Wurm-Wal-Mart group.

 

That being said. I don't think that focused play based on any specific fascination will kill Wurm. It's usually the opposite, when a player has experienced all the things in a game that fascinates him... then they change focus to other games and when this gets multiplied then populations drop and that eventually leads to the end. Having experienced the loss of previous MMO's that I played (Asheron's Call, Star Wars Galaxies, Earth & Beyond, and recently, Worlds Adrift) I can submit that a game is best enjoyed without thinking too much about the end and to just enjoy it while you can. 

 

 

Edited by Whane

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Assuming the server is popular and has a steady flow of people, it would be pretty hard to monopolize any item or product. If you can get those items from elsewhere, then by all means, I absolutely support people looking to buy from the little guy. He needs business dealings as much as anyone. The goal of my market isn't to monopolize, but to create a marketplace of organization and higher functioning that has rarely been seen in Wurm before. I want it to be scenic and interesting to experience as much as anything to do with trading or exchanging money. Besides, players have been able to freely sign up to join the market, and profits aren't going to only one person. One benefit of having a "Walmart" style marketplace in Wurm will be availability of things that may be difficult to obtain elsewhere, all in one location. It's a little difficult to travel around a large server collecting things that you need within a short time frame. You could sell stuff at our market, just the same as anyone else. Where's the monopoly in that?

 

I think large markets do more to support a large server than they could possibly do to destroy one. The key point being that merchants from across the server will be able to sell their wares at Wal-Mart type village. That will be supportive of every individual player and has nothing to do with a monopoly. If you plan to find sellers that don't have a merchant at the large market settlement, where are you going to buy from? 

 

P.S. I did consider naming our new market Wal-Mart,  but I'm sure we can come up with something better and I don't want to be pulled into a legal battle. 😁

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@hammer it's interesting that you think your village was one that I was referencing. I'm not sure why you want people outside of your village placing vendors there when you already have 17 people signed up... that is definitely what I would call a Wurm-Wal-Mart village. 

 

1 hour ago, Hammer said:

If you plan to find sellers that don't have a merchant at the large market settlement, where are you going to buy from?

 

If I had any doubts of your intentions (and I did not) it would have been put to rest with that statement because that is a perfect example of the type of language used when attempting to challenge others to find another venue to purchase from.. I.E. you want a monopoly. You and I both know the answer to your pseudo question. But there was other language used on your OP that also clearly illustrated your motivation and it certainly did not have the "little guy" (your words) in mind.  But there have been some edits to your post, including one just 10 minutes prior... I remember previous edits though. You're going to create a wal-mart on the server, that is your choice, but don't try to suggest that the only choice I have is to buy from there because it's one thing to want a wal-mart, another thing to try and control where people buy with statements like the one above.

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