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Platyna

Levelling vs. digging skill gain per minute per task.

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I have set up this little experiment today. 

 

Objective: level 12 tile borders from 20 slopes to flat as fast as possible, using levelling or digging, measure time and skill gain, calculate skill gain per minute. 

Tool: high quality blank supreme iron shovel (to minimize quality loss that can affect the results and rule out enchant decay).

Additional information: Highway protection disallowed any erroneous extra actions to be performed, digging had 2 actions more on other tile corner, due to small mistake in experiment setup (timer was off at this time), this however should have no influence on the results, full CCFP at experiment round, stamina always kept at least at 20%.

 

Results: 

Levelling took approximately: 21 minutes 43 seconds and resulted in 0,008469 skill gain, this is 0,0000065 skill gain per second (0,000389977 per minute). 

Digging took approximately: 18 minutes 37 seconds and resulted in  0,005310 skill gain, this is 0,000004754 skill gain per second (0,000285228 per minute) which is ~73,14% of levelling skill gain. 

 

Any constructive suggestions and comments welcome. 

 

Full event logs:

Level: https://pastebin.com/wqCz6SdS

Dig: https://pastebin.com/L3XyjQiR

 

Pictures:

RNbNqpE.pngLMCcqaT.pngBEFsXBb.pngKRIf4pG.png

 

 

 

 

Edited by Platyna

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I knew digging would be faster at high skill, but I would never have guessed levelling would be more skill gain. I would imagine that digging on clay or some other higher difficulty tile for the same time would give much more skill if that is what you are going for.

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1 minute ago, McGarnicle said:

I knew digging would be faster at high skill, but I would never have guessed levelling would be more skill gain. I would imagine that digging on clay or some other higher difficulty tile for the same time would give much more skill if that is what you are going for.

 

If difficulty is a constant factor then I believe the relative quantification of skill gain per minute should remain the same. 

Edited by Platyna

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As far as I understand, longer lasting actions yield more skill, even skill per time unit. That is why some power levelers switch climbing on (and off) to drain stamina (must not be 0 as skill gain drops then dramatically). But low stam -> longer action ->  more skill. And during leveling, stamina is going down, thus longer actions.

Edited by Ekcin

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4 minutes ago, Ekcin said:

As far as I understand, longer lasting actions yield more skill, even skill per time unit. That is why some power levelers switch climbing on (and off) to drain stamina (must not be 0 as skill gain drops then dramatically). But low stam -> longer action ->  more skill. And during leveling, stamina is going down, thus longer actions.

 

I do try to sustain the level action until I hit "you must rest" and I am getting decent exp off it. 

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>does everything possible to gimp skillgain

>erroneously proclaims one option is better than the other

 

What is it you had hoped to accomplish, again?

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Tile types have different difficulties with dirt being 0 tar being 35(and steppe at 40) and so on
Slope makes a difference in skill gain while digging there is a calculation for it(i cant remember it right of the top of my head il see if i can find it again later) that would give you the optimal digging skill gain based on the tile+slope you are using

certain skills benefit from time spend on action vs actions per minute but digging isnt one of those
the difference between a ql 90 supreme shovel at full stamina vs low stamina actually is big enough where going to no stam results in less skill gain then queueing up max actions and then resetting for stam(if you compare set amount of actions in 8 hour span for both) the reason for this comes down to more actions done favoring a higher average skill income then less actions done

if you want to grind digging in anyway make a spike of dirt up to a few dirt above your optimal and turn 4 tiles on the spike into tar(or clay) stand in the center where you can stand without climb on have a bsb nearby with a barrel of water and food and have the proper ql shovel with as high coc as you can get your hands onto(QL=(difficulty+20)*2-skill) turn on sleep bonus grab affinity meal and spend an afternoon digging(or till you run out of sb) you can get to 99 in a few afternoons of doing that which you just can not do with level what so ever

Now if someone would be so nice as to post up that slope calculator again(i cant seem to find it in my logs anywhere 😕 )

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I do not grind digging, what most interests me is how much exp can I get during normal terraforming work, so I tried to set up this experiment as "natural" as possible. If this information helps; I am almost 80,71 digging and like 99% of this exp comes from terraforming, using good (QL 90+) highly enchanted (WOA/COC) shovel, no SB and 3 months of game play, 15455 digging actions (mainly dirt), 72627 dirt assembled. This experiment is no where close to any grinding recommendations.

 

Edited by Platyna

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What suggestions and comments do you want exactly if you dont want to grind digging? Are you looking for suggestions to gain skill at a slower pace if you want to be 'natural'? If what interests you most is what you get just playing then im not sure whats left to say or what your skill and set up information helps work out since you already figured it out.

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As I said above, I was wondering how much experience I can gain during normal terraforming work, and did this experiment. I did not ask for any grinding suggestions, just for comments on the experiment itself and its results. 

Edited by Platyna

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18 hours ago, Platyna said:

Any constructive suggestions and comments welcome.

 

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Yes, about the experiment, which a topic of this thread. 

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"Normal"  terraforming is relative. Most people don't spend all their time on it. Ofc you can gain skill in something that you do day after day.

 

However... There are factors that you could change in there, such as the QL of the shovel and the WOA/COC and it would change that.

 

22 hours ago, SmeJack said:

What suggestions and comments do you want exactly if you dont want to grind digging? Are you looking for suggestions to gain skill at a slower pace if you want to be 'natural'? If what interests you most is what you get just playing then im not sure whats left to say or what your skill and set up information helps work out since you already figured it out.

Is an excellent question. These are things that maybe some people didn't know.. But if you make a few comments on your time doing it and possibly even saying you aren't grinding ( anyone that spends their days doing what they love, eventually grinds.. especially when they announce progress in GL.. We have all done it.) You are looking for feedback.

 

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1 hour ago, Silvirwolfe said:

"Normal"  terraforming is relative. Most people don't spend all their time on it. Ofc you can gain skill in something that you do day after day.

 

However... There are factors that you could change in there, such as the QL of the shovel and the WOA/COC and it would change that.

 

Is an excellent question. These are things that maybe some people didn't know.. But if you make a few comments on your time doing it and possibly even saying you aren't grinding ( anyone that spends their days doing what they love, eventually grinds.. especially when they announce progress in GL.. We have all done it.) You are looking for feedback.

 

 

I used high quality shovel to avoid QL changes during experiment, as the affect skill gain, which would introduce a variable factor. And while I have my working high WOA/COC shovel in inventory, a blank one was used (you can see it activated on a first picture), or do you suggest repeating the experiment WITH WOA/COC shovel? This is indeed a good idea for another experiment as most of us use  such shovels for digging.  A bit harder to set up correctly though. About grinding and chatting on GL - no idea how it is related to this experiment. 

Edited by Platyna

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7 minutes ago, Platyna said:

 

I used high quality shovel to avoid QL changes during experiment, as the affect skill gain, which would introduce a variable factor. And while I have my working high WOA/COC shovel in inventory, a blank one was used (you can see it activated on a first picture), or do you suggest repeating the experiment WITH such shovel? Grinding I define as performing actions just for skill gain without regard of their further usability, however I have no idea why you bring GL chat to this discussion...

I don't suggest reproducing any "experiment".  I am simply giving my input as you asked.

 

On 7/7/2020 at 1:27 AM, Platyna said:

If this information helps; I am almost 80,71 digging and like 99% of this exp comes from terraforming, using good (QL 90+) highly enchanted (WOA/COC) shovel, no SB and 3 months of game play, 15455 digging actions (mainly dirt), 72627 dirt assembled

Information YOU provided btw.

 

 

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I am trying to understand your input, and asked for clarification. 

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I was pretty clear on my input.

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Not clear enough as I didn't got you.

 



There are factors that you could change in there, such as the QL of the shovel and the WOA/COC and it would change that.

 

Change how exactly? 

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If you have paid attention to CAHelp which you frequent and have asked these question and participated in...

 

QL of the shovel factors in how fast you dig.. COC changes how much experience you get. WOA changes how fast your action with said tool is... Your current skill factors in ALL of this.

 

 

You are asking questions you already know answers to.

 

 

I am done playing the Question answer portion of your game.. Have a Nice Day!

 

 

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I know what QL and WOA/COC does to a shovel, indeed and I didn't ask what they do, as I asked if you suggest a new experiment with such a shovel or you think I did this experiment with it as there was a confusion from some people who thought I used COC/WOA shovel as I have one in my inventory. And I why you keep commenting on my activity on in game channels? How it is related to the matter we discuss here? And what game? I don't understand. Have a nice day too. 

Edited by Platyna

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21 minutes ago, Platyna said:

Not clear enough as I didn't got you.

 

 

 

 

Change how exactly? 

I explained. Stop spinning circles.

 

 

Conversation is over with me at this point. Period.

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this is a pretty good thread

reminds me of this

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Are you asking what you could do to increase skill gain while still maintaining a good pace at digging and terraforming? Are you wondering how you could increase the speed of your terraforming regardless of skill gain? Are you trying to determine how to maximize skill gain? Maybe it’s a matter of trying to find a balance between both.

 

All experiments need to start with a question that you would like to answer. It seems this experiment of yours lacks this initial step so it has left the rest of us wondering what the purpose of this discussion is.

 

Personally, I know the answers to all of the previously stated questions so I am not going to ask them. Instead, what particularly stands out to me about the data you collected is that, under the conditions of 80ish digging skill and using a 95ql supreme shovel, levelling gave better skill gain than digging. I wonder why that might be. My guess is that with such a high ql shovel, digging dirt will yield very low number of skill ticks compared to levelling. 
 

I could go on about that, however, I do not find that line of questioning overly interesting since if I were terraforming for a project, I always go for speed over skill. There are times I might want to balance speed and skill in which case I would use a lower ql shovel with coc on it and possibly woa. A good question to test in this scenario would be “does woa on a low ql shovel reduce skill gain over time?” My guess might be that it would not since skill gain is scaled linearity with action time. That is to say if you cut the time in half, then you would cut the skill in half so after an hour you would have the same skill gain. I would expect this guess to be wrong and that an experiment would show that by adding woa, you will get less skill, but this is based on experience and a gut feeling. 
 

My point is that there should probably be an initial wonder to guide any inquiry. You may have had one, but haven’t yet shared it which is why you have received responses from the community that do not satisfy or relate to your inquiry.

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McGarnicle I clearly stated what was an objective of this experiment. I note all the input, and will surely take it into consideration in designing future experiments (and I do many of them about various aspects of the game). 🙂 

Edited by Platyna

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7 hours ago, Platyna said:

Not clear enough as I didn't got you.

 

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