Darklords

PvP Discussion #2 - Steam Details

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8 hours ago, Darklords said:

Most skills will cross, but some will not including faith/meditation and likely fighting skill.

 

I undestand that Fighting skill isn't shared. That Faith isn't shared almost makes sense as well. But Meditation?

It takes long. It's completely annoying to grind. It's important for PvP. Please don't let us grind this twice.

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40 minutes ago, Quicktor said:

 

really don't understand why people won't want the raid windows, finally putting an end to offline raids, long overdue

 

 

 

think Drastox explained that - this would effectively stop people from pvping in some time zones eg the Australian timezone would effectively stop anyone from there raiding unless you can say no you cant raid in my timezone cos I wont be on. Its more about participating in raids than wanting offline raids Cyber....

 

I also think the gravestone will jsut mean bigger groups always get the loot and it becomes even more of a numbers game than it already is

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Nice, i won't have to worry about preming another account to play there at least lol.....
Safezones and stuff made it easy to not even wanna try it out for me

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Really love the changes, especially the safe zones and raid windows. This should make people that are unsure of PvP feel a bit more secure to come try it out. It loses its intense hardcore nature, but that's what we have Chaos for. 

Really great work, Darklords. 

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Posted (edited)
15 hours ago, Darklords said:

With the server coming up fast we wanted to give you some time to look over and give feedback on the new pvp server changes. These are still subject to change before the server launch. Most of the changes from the elevation reset will be crossing over to this new server. Feel free to discuss the changes listed below and anything else you think was missed.

 

Really positive changes, I only have concerns about the safe zone and raid window.

 

The safe zone really needs to disincentivise things like loot storage deeds. Perhaps increased item decay on items over a certain ql or something similar. 

 

The raid window is more worrying. Any deed that is "unraidable" for any period of time is abusable. People will be able to make impenetrable safe zones consisting of just a single wooden shack. This is even worse when you consider same Kingdom alts planting these safe deeds for enemies anywhere. Some potential scenarios:

  • Planting a war deed as close as possible to an enemy deed and setting the raid timer as far away as possible so the enemy can't do anything but watch it being built.
  • Imagine a deed where the easiest entrance is via a canal. You can plant a separate deed with a different raid window blocking the canal, so people can only raid one or the other. 
  • or imagine 2 deeds next to each other connected by a mine. Both with different raid windows. If you raid one, all items can be moved to the other, and it can be used as an impenetrable hop.
  • or imagine an underground deed completely reinforced. It has multiples entrances, each with a different deed covering the mine entrance with different raid windows. You regularly strongwall one of the entrances and reopen another so that the open entrance is always protected by the raid window. This deed is literally unraidable.
  • Area denial in general will be incredibly easy. Being able to block land bridges with wooden shacks, etc. (Remember same Kingdom alts planting deeds to bypass tower chaining restrictions)

 

These are just a few ideas off the top of my head, but hopefully it shows that raid windows are really abusable. 

 

I'd suggest having the raid window feature only being active within the safe zone 

Edited by BrokenSanity
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raid window best chaNGE makes pvp more entertaining for people who dont play 24/7 because they have life lol but peopel will always komplain ajajajaj

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Posted (edited)

I think PMK requirements should be increased and they should have harder or more expensive to make.

The safe zones need to have a lot more penalties to them in almost every way (increased decay? decreased skillgain? increased upkeep? ore cap QL? maybe no veins present there other than iron?) and they should be 250x250 instead.

 

Raid windows also need to be tweaked and adjusted a lot. I don't know how yet, but they should last for longer, and possibly limited in usage. They are a good idea, and i have wanted them before, but im not sure how well it can be balanced, because atm i see a lot and i mean a lot of issues with it.

Edited by atazs

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Posted (edited)

For those opposed to having to grind certain skills twice, consider that with the recent changes to Epic, players tend to play on freedom and only cross over to Epic when there's some PvP action happening.

This behavior introduced a vicious circle where there's barely anyone on Epic to initiate pvp with to begin with, further reducing the reason to cross over. I think it's pretty damn important to prevent something like that from happening with the new PvP server.

 

Having something like Epic portals to cross over between the two new servers already allows people to "teleport" in on demand when there's a PvP situation happening, effectively reducing the long-term reasons to actively play on the pvp server to deed maintenance and the odd armor crafting session. This makes clear the need for some other incentives. I think the few skills that currently don't transfer are a good start, but I think that either it should be taken even further (meditating and faith barely require presence, and fighting is a 1-week investment) , or an alternative reason for players to actively play on the pvp server if they intend to fight there as well should exist. Some other random ideas are:

 

  • Simply only allow skills to sync once a year (quite drastic),
  • Introduce a 1-2 hour significant skill debuff upon crossing (think 50% skillgain, and 50% effective skill for combat-skills and 75% for others).

 

The former might be a bit too drastic, but I tink the latter could at least combat the opportunistic server crossing syndrome if tweaked right, although I'm not sure if it when deployed alone would be enough.

Edited by Monokles
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Posted (edited)
4 hours ago, Quicktor said:

can't say that i dislike something i am reading in the changes

really don't understand why people won't want the raid windows, finally putting an end to offline raids, long overdue

 

the safe zone change is nice aswell, but maybe even put limited QL ressources in those spots like suggested, doesn't have to be too crazy

but there should be some more incentive leaving the safe zone

 

minehops offdeed would also be a good addition to this iteration

can be limited to like 40QL like hemz said, cause that sounds more reasonable

but with the change that offdeed reinforcements are really easy to disintegrate into, offdeed hops should be back (meaning that they don't just open if you go through while an enemy is in local, but it keeps being locked)

 

just overlooked the first time i read through it, but why wouldn't meditating cross to PvE?

it's one of the most time consuming skills and you want us to grind it 2 times?

 

all in all

nice changes

I wanted raid windows, but they sound like a nightmare to balance and are open to so many abuses.

If the devs can get it right, then it's good.

 

Quite frankly, the best idea would be to have a few weeks of no raid windows, followed by a few weeks of raid windows. 2 or 4 weeks maybe? 

Edited by atazs

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13 hours ago, Darklords said:

Deeds can now only be raided during raid windows, villages will be able to pick the time this window opens and this can only be changed every 2 weeks. The window duration is dictated by villager/alliance count and if it's located in the safe zone or not. You will be able to view the window and how long till it starts by right clicking any wall/fence on the deed from any distance. Starter villages will be 100% unraidable.

  • Raid windows will be around 2 hours for safe zones and 6+ hours outside them.

 

Perhaps do like they do on EVE online, everything is open to attack at all times, but when they "reinforce" a structure, it cant be attacked for X amount of time, perhaps we can use something of the same here? like it gets raided, drained (then after 2-3 hours you cant attack any buildings/terraform as enemy for X amount of time, so people have time to rebuild?

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On the whole this is looking pretty good, thanks@Darklords.

 

Travel between PvE and PvP server

IMO no skills should cross, keep the pop popping on the PvP server.

As others have said it encourage porting only for PvP or other events once deeds are built, killing the pop.

Question, do banks transfer between servers?


Weapons/Armour Tweaks

Praying for good balance so we see more weapon and armor types in PvP.

There shouldn't be any one amour and weapon combination that can dominate all other options.


Raid Windows

Mixed thoughts but only time will tell. Guess the point is to set the raid window to suit the active play time of the village.

** Positive - Guaranteed PvP opportunity when raiding/defending. **

** Negative - Limited raid options for time-zones. **

Question, when you say "The window duration is dictated by villager/alliance count", I'm assuming this is overall both online and off-line?

Question, is it going to be possible to disband a deed within the raid window, again both zones?

 

Other Suggestions

** If the population swells and there is a high population in all time zones, consider changing raid windows to be cyclical and traversing multiple time zones. **

** Of-deed mine hops would be nice to have again, either limit the door ql placement to 30-40 or increase bash damage significantly, off-deed only. **

** Same thing with off-deed housing, either limit ql to 30-40 or increase bash and siege weapon damage significantly, off-deed only. **

** Possibly consider similar to above for "Safe Zones" both on and off deed, limit ql to 50-70 to make them appealing to raiders and encourage deeding in the danger zone. **

 

Something New Perhaps?
** Combat damage dealt is diminished as your stamina drops. **

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Posted (edited)

 

Grave stones are there to stop the ninja looting i guess.. but if you push someone off the grave stone you get the gear its not so much as a loot timer but stop someone from Europe  who is latterly sitting on top of server spamming "take"  i win button.

 

Raid timer could be worked like this. 

 

  • Buy a Siege writ from trader "20s" i dont know.
  • walk to deed you wish to raid and drop a writ on the deed perimeter
  • this gives the defenders 12 hours to set a 6 - 12 hour raid window within a 36 hour timeframe.
  • during the siege window (48 HOURS)  you cannot build / repair / plant mine doors on deed or within 20 tiles of a deed perimeter
  • Attackers - if deed is drained during the raid  window the deed and all its buildings are destroyed "Does not apply to safezone deeds"
  • Defenders - After the Siege writ is dropped it creates a siege stone this stone cannot have anything built around it and is the same strength as a 60ql mine door once this is destroyed it ends the siege window.
  • You can only be sieged once every 1 month

 

Next is listen to the requests coming from the players and have monthly votes on what could be implemented / removed from the server

 

Edited by hemrzz

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I like most of those changes, I'm actually surprised that a dev has even paid enough attention to PvP to be aware of some of the issues.

My feedback

- I dont see why tomes need to be removed from unique drops, they are very rare and fairly negligible but interesting power boosts. I find them fun. Although I can see the logic of not wanting mechanics where the strongest get stronger in ways that new players cant ever hope to reproduce.

- I personally, as someone who only ever plays PvP, dont mind when people can cross over from PvE with all their stats. I know its been complained about in the past but usually PvPers are just happy to have new challengers enter the arena and mix things up, its not like PvE players are ever a real threat.

- The "starter islands" feel really redundant and unnecessary. Siege weapons do less damage and 2 hour time limit? Thats a great place to have a secure base to store your valuables. I realize a big kingdom isnt going to want to live in a 21x21 but I can easily imagine smaller groups abusing it to grief / troll from. 

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52 minutes ago, Middi said:

Travel between PvE and PvP server

IMO no skills should cross, keep the pop popping on the PvP server.

As others have said it encourage porting only for PvP or other events once deeds are built, killing the pop.

 

I totally disagree with this, as you would have to choose between PvP and PvE then, only creating a big gap again like on Epic.

You don't want PvP players only on a PvP cluster. You also want the PvE people, reinforcing the backline, pushing the economy and doing regular stuff. In fact, I think PvE players are much more important for a PvP cluster than the actual hardcore warriors.

Thats also why I think that the safe-zone changes with stronger guards, smaller raid-windows etc. are an absolute brilliant idea to get a good, stable, long term server population up and running again.

 

Let PvE players come over whenever they want. Let them build their backline deed in relative safety. Let them slowly get into PvP and its mechanics. Don't create a gap by forcing them to choose between a PvE server or a PvP server on their first day.

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31 minutes ago, MightySheep said:

- I dont see why tomes need to be removed from unique drops, they are very rare and fairly negligible but interesting power boosts. I find them fun. Although I can see the logic of not wanting mechanics where the strongest get stronger in ways that new players cant ever hope to reproduce.

 

its not so much the spells, but the damage reductions that come with them, 10% overall physical damage reduction is quite alot, then add in 10% of each damage type and it stacks quite high.

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Posted (edited)

Would 1 way skill transfer from PvP to PvE be a good option? (like how freedom grinding transfers to Epic) That way you can grind on PvP, but still come back to PvE with no big loss if you don’t like it or need a break. 
 

There is a drawback though, since older players on PvE might be discouraged from going to PvP. Maybe a certain percentage of skill would transfer the other way?

Edited by LionIX
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Body control is a characteristic that helps with weapon accuracy.
Body stamina reflects how much stamina you can have in your stamina bar.
Body strength increases damage in combat and reduces the amount of damage taken by your character.

Weapon skill increases both hit chances and parry chances. 

 

What else should I train for PvP on the PvE server to get an advantage at the release? 

archery, channeling, soul, and fighting sub skills?

I am trying to be the strongest player.

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Skills shouldn't cross at all. We already know what it has done to Epic, and the bad outweighs the good.

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28 minutes ago, steamedlunch said:

Body control is a characteristic that helps with weapon accuracy.
Body stamina reflects how much stamina you can have in your stamina bar.
Body strength increases damage in combat and reduces the amount of damage taken by your character.

Weapon skill increases both hit chances and parry chances. 

 

What else should I train for PvP on the PvE server to get an advantage at the release? 

archery, channeling, soul, and fighting sub skills?

I am trying to be the strongest player.

 

Well they plan to release both PvE and PvP Together so you wont have any advantage. Pottery is good for pvp though

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1 hour ago, Touchmee said:

 

Well they plan to release both PvE and PvP Together so you wont have any advantage. Pottery is good for pvp though

Their thinking about it right? It’s not official.

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Posted (edited)
22 hours ago, Darklords said:

[...]

Safe Zones/Travel/Raiding

  • Players will move between the new pvp and pve server much like how epic works with a portal on each side that is simple to craft. Most skills will cross, but some will not including faith/meditation and likely fighting skill.

[...]

Like why faith and meditation.

 

I get the fighting, i realy do. But why for god's sake meditation and faith.

This ###### runs on a timer, so i gotta keep track of this. Also it's limited per day, so i gotta keep track of this.

And the cherry on the cake is I get to enjoy 2x the grind if I play on both servers. So i gotta make sure i'm not commited to anything before i've not cleared my cooldowns on both and i also gotta make sure to have a safe travelpath between both servers.

 

It's like i need two Sermongroups now, because one wasnt bloody enough.

 

And dont get me started on meditating. This is insane.

Most people ignore meditation because when's the last time you realy did enjoy the meditation system outside of having broken SotG? Yeah me neither.

 

Congrats now you gotta do it two times.

 

I will avoid both skills like the plague and claim them to be broken at every occasion. Who in their right mind will grind this two times.

Like who does that? Arent priests limited enough already? You basically can't do jack as a priest without a village supporting you, now you also gotta be able to do jack when you leave pvp to join pve.

 

Imagine starting pvp, thinkging you will only ever pvp. Then one day you might switch to pve. But, now there are less chances at sermongroups and they are also smaller. Meaning the time you invest in the first place is just gone.

Edited by Gevard
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1 hour ago, AceRifle said:

Their thinking about it right? It’s not official.

On the Main FAQ they have crossed a line through their original idea and added "At this moment, we're aiming to launch both PvP and PvE at the same time."

 

Fair to say its a offical :)

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Will priests work the same as they do on chaos in terms of bonuses and restrictions?

How will champs work? Can BL have 3 lib champs? can MR have 3 Mag champs or do they have to have 1 fo 1 mag 1 vyn?

 

On the last Epic reboot, there were some issues with same kingdom pvp, with No PMKs I am pretty sure we will see a similar issue on this server, specially around Champs if they are allowed, PMKs from the start or very soon after might be good depending on numbers.

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2 hours ago, Gevard said:

Like why faith and meditation.

 

 

 

Imo having it separate has an advantage, people that switch between pve and pvp can take SOTG on pvp and Knowledge on pve. Meaning people who usually stick to pve are more likely to try pvp. I think having the skill linked so you dont have to meditate on both servers, but paths separate.

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Posted (edited)

Is there a way to see everyone's raid window for their deed? or we have to try and figure it out on our own? 

23 hours ago, Darklords said:

Capitals cannot be located inside this safe zone. 

 

So also, how are capitals defined? Does this mean where the king lives cant be in the safe zone or what does it mean by capitals cant be in the safe zone. 

 

 

 

Edited by WittleBunnBun

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