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Darklords

PvP Discussion #2 - Steam Details

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also, are kingdom mobs spawning everywhere (hyenas boars gorillas) going to be fixed? ever since the change to make them spawn everywhere on freedom they no longer spawn with a kingdom, cover the entire map (in kingdom lands you'll get even more of them due to natural spawns + kingdom influence spawns, but the influence spawns don't have a kingdom anymore) and attack everyone regardless of kingdom, on chaos/epic they're a mild annoyance at most because they slap your horse when you ride past but if you don't have a fast horse/can't kill them they have massive aggro/follow ranges and will probably dumpster anyone exploring around early on

Edited by Oblivionnreaver
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On 6/30/2020 at 11:32 PM, Darklords said:

 

  • When players die to other players their items will be placed inside a grave that cannot be moved or destroyed by normal methods, a 60 second action on the grave will destroy it leaving the corpse with the loot under it. Recall corpses cannot be used for 20 mins after death now when the corpse is inside a grave.

 

@DarklordsWhile graves essentially assures that the "victor" of a open ground battle obtains loot, it also has a very gameplay altering side effect for raiding.

It makes it near impossible to loot corpses that has died at a fortified deeded location such as near minedoors.

Merely surviving a full 60 seconds without moving at such a location where the defenders can output full dmg and retreat in a mere second if they get too wounded is extremely hard.

Ontop of that: Avoiding to become stunned at such a location for 60 seconds aswell makes it insanely hard.

 

I'd greatly suggest altering the mechanic to make it more equally favorable between attackers and defenders to retrieve fallen players equipment.

If not, then i fear deed pvp and raiding as a whole will be greatly detered by the implementation of this mechanic.

 

The base concept is nice, but it needs some modification.

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2 minutes ago, Zekezor said:

@DarklordsWhile graves essentially assures that the "victor" of a open ground battle obtains loot, it also has a very gameplay altering side effect for raiding.

It makes it near impossible to loot corpses that has died at a fortified deeded location such as near minedoors.

Merely surviving a full 60 seconds without moving at such a location where the defenders can output full dmg and retreat in a mere second if they get too wounded is extremely hard.

Ontop of that: Avoiding to become stunned at such a location for 60 seconds aswell makes it insanely hard.

 

I'd greatly suggest altering the mechanic to make it more equally favorable between attackers and defenders to retrieve fallen players equipment.

If not, then i fear deed pvp and raiding as a whole will be greatly detered by the implementation of this mechanic.

 

The base concept is nice, but it needs some modification.

i think he is correct on this, an idea would to be make it harder to interupt the actual looting of it without direct attacking. that way they cant just cast random aoe spells or rain arrows from behind walls, maybe find a way to force them to engage into melee combat would be a start to fixing this mechanic for deed raiding, like a sort of protection bonus while looting the corpse via and aura or something.

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Another thing to consider in regards to graves is the willingness for less powerfull forces to participate in combat. If there is no chance to get loot unless you are the overall winner then there may not be an engagement to begin with.

For instance if less numerous defenders in a siege scenario can get a quick strike vs a target and obtain some loot by doing so, then they will be far more eager to participate in combat which brings enjoyment to all sides.

If there is no way for defenders to get loot without completely driving away the attackers from the zone, then it may result in that their way of defending alters into fully focusing on mitigating siege equipment damage by repairing and rebuilding rather than participating in the brawls.

People love PVP for the combat and the intensity that it brings... Along with the stories/videos from those battles. Not boring 6 hour sieges.

So I'd recommend that careful thought is put into things that may lower pvp participation.

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what if instead of a 8 hour raid window, there is a 24 hour raid window a couple times per week. this would give everyone from different timezones a chance to raid and give the possibility of completing larger raids. in the days off from the raid window the defenders would have plenty of time to rebuild and fortify their deed

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All of these changes are positive improvements to existing state of PvP servers. However, a new server provides a unique opportunity to rework fundamental systems that have systemic impacts on how players approach the server. Many of these changes are focused at eliminating the gap between players who are highly skilled and newer accounts. When the new server started, this isn't the issue you'll be facing. Instead, problems will exist such as:

  • Players zerging to the "winning" kingdom, since the rewards for roaming objectives are now higher. The zerg kingdom will advance faster due to higher quality of items (from the roaming expeditions). This creates a player number gap and gear gap between the larger kingdom and smaller kingdoms.
  • Alts being used in an exploitative way. It's been a problem since forever, and even the players who are the most consistent "alt abusers" want to see it gone. The only reason they do it is because of how effective it is and the fact it's not disallowed.
  • Raiding being incredibly frustrating and unrewarding. Players are going to store items in safe mines or simply log off an alt with their valuables. Raiding a deed is a slow, tedious process that can result in no reward or PvP activity even after spending hours battering the outer defenses. The slope changes help with this a bit, but 150 slope limit will just result in players making 2 tile walls at 150 each, resulting in the standard 300 anyway.
  • Priests remaining undisputed kings of PvP. Changing this would require some significant changes, probably to combat itself.

I just find it odd that such significant changes would benefit the existing PvP servers tremendously, but instead have been saved for the Steam launch where none of those problems will occur until months down the road.

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As I perused this thread, I was initially critical of the safe zones and raid window. Some of the changes seem to be good alternatives and I like the suggestion of a scaling raid window the further a deed is from the safe zone of its kingdom.

 

Ultimately, the success of a PvP server falls on US as the COMMUNITY. There will always be those that build a nearly raid-proof deed. There will always be those that hoard their precious virtual dragon products and only come off deed with overwhelming odds. The beauty of this game is the endless possibilities. Lay traps, bait them off, etc.

 

So long as the new servers have an active, engaged population with a prime focus of engaging in open-world PvP, it will be a fun experience.

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3 hours ago, Sindusk said:

All of these changes are positive improvements to existing state of PvP servers. However, a new server provides a unique opportunity to rework fundamental systems that have systemic impacts on how players approach the server. Many of these changes are focused at eliminating the gap between players who are highly skilled and newer accounts. When the new server started, this isn't the issue you'll be facing. Instead, problems will exist such as:

  • Players zerging to the "winning" kingdom, since the rewards for roaming objectives are now higher. The zerg kingdom will advance faster due to higher quality of items (from the roaming expeditions). This creates a player number gap and gear gap between the larger kingdom and smaller kingdoms.
  • Alts being used in an exploitative way. It's been a problem since forever, and even the players who are the most consistent "alt abusers" want to see it gone. The only reason they do it is because of how effective it is and the fact it's not disallowed.
  • Raiding being incredibly frustrating and unrewarding. Players are going to store items in safe mines or simply log off an alt with their valuables. Raiding a deed is a slow, tedious process that can result in no reward or PvP activity even after spending hours battering the outer defenses. The slope changes help with this a bit, but 150 slope limit will just result in players making 2 tile walls at 150 each, resulting in the standard 300 anyway.
  • Priests remaining undisputed kings of PvP. Changing this would require some significant changes, probably to combat itself.

I just find it odd that such significant changes would benefit the existing PvP servers tremendously, but instead have been saved for the Steam launch where none of those problems will occur until months down the road.

Im pretty sure that not even stacking walls will allow you to go higher than 150

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1 hour ago, atazs said:

Im pretty sure that not even stacking walls will allow you to go higher than 150

 

what makes you think that?

one tile with 150 slope + another one with 150 slope is 300 slope over 2 tiles...

i don't understand the point you are trying to make

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A thought i had, randomly, meditating and faith doesn't transfer, are you not worried about the fact that this will most likely end up on people grinding on the freedom server and porting over for pvp, like how it goes with epic currently (ok nobody ports over to epic to pvp anymore lol)? You could be PoK/PoP 11 on freedom as any follower for the bonus skillgain and ability to grind without priest restrictions, then choose a combat meditating path and be a priest on the pvp server with no penalty, other than having to avoid grinding certain skills that won't transfer and the fact that you'd have to grind meditating on two clusters, which isn't much of a barrier, as you'll probably only need to get 30/50 on the pvp server.

Edited by Oblivionnreaver
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I am concerned about entering enemy territory only to have an alt log in behind us and popping up an invincible wooden fence behind us on a deed that blocks a major chokepoint.  Or, a river that gets a bit of dirt dumped in it and an invincible fence built across it behind us.  Without any teleporting, there will be no way out.  Or say you successfully lockpick your way into an enemy deed, only to have an alt log in behind and toss up a couple fences around the area you came in.  No way out now.  This is just a couple examples of how you could get completely screwed with this kind of instant invincible fence play.  I know we could just not ever enter enemy territory out of fear of this, but that seems like an extreme. 

My suggestion:  Simply add a time for new structures to "cure" before they become invulnerable.  This will remove people's ability to just instabuild invincible fences behind you etc.  (My apologies if you have already stated there will be something like this.  Lots of new info to pour over since i played last!).

 

Thanks for your time Devs, and great work tying to improve this amazing game!

 

~Bregga

 

(Edited for spelling)

Edited by bregga

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bregga has a really good point. people could run into issues of picking into someones deed when the raid window is closed then the defenders can just drop a fence at the entry point and the raiders are locked into the deed with no way to get out since they wont be able to break the fence. i feel like there has to be a way for people to get out

Edited by JamesSnow

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Does that just add to the drama? Gotta get out before the raid window shuts, gives a focus?

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i mean like people picking into a deed when the raid window is shut

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  • Quote

    Meditation levels cap out at 9, no scaling sotg.

@Darklords

Does that mean there's no sotg at all or do you get a full 30% on lvl 7? Or do you just get a 6% on lvl 7 and that's it

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Sure seems to me to mean 6% at lvl 7 and no scaling after that, since he says "no scaling".  Do you have a source zentil by chance?  I only ask as I am really curious also.

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On 6/30/2020 at 5:32 PM, Darklords said:

Elevation Changes Staying 

  • Maximum digging slope has been reduced to 150.

  • Maximum surface mining / tunneling slope has been reduced to 60.

  • There now needs to be a minimum of 3 tiles between mine doors.

  • Meditation levels cap out at 9, no scaling sotg.

Elevation Changes Staying 

 

Thats how it was set on Epic Elevation no Sotg.

 

Also It was always Everything at 11, until scaling.. so no scaling means nothing pre 11.

Edited by zentil

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Responding to a few questions since I last replied.

  • Combat Equipment scaling/curve will be enabled.
  • Valrei mobs will be enabled and spawn like they do on epic.

  • No SOTG period scaling or not.

     

     

 

 

 

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38 minutes ago, Darklords said:

Combat Equipment scaling/curve will be enabled.

 

are you certain that this is a good decision?

will be confusing if you can't sustain a good skillgain cause of a reason you can't really see

 

if i understood the scaling wrong, my apologies

but to my understanding a certain item has a hidden ql that is gonna be better than it actually shows, right?

Edited by Quicktor

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@Quicktorits documented on the wurmpedia.

https://www.wurmpedia.com/index.php/Quality_level

Effective quality section.

 

@Darklordsconsidering a shield is 20ql effective quality as minimum it will affect high lvl shield grinding. Is there any plans to mitigate that issue?

Apparantly the mechanics have changed since i last played. nvm.

Edited by Zekezor

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2 hours ago, Darklords said:

Responding to a few questions since I last replied.

  • Combat Equipment scaling/curve will be enabled.
  • Valrei mobs will be enabled and spawn like they do on epic.

  • No SOTG period scaling or not.

     

     

 

 

 

 

Thanks Darklords for the clarifying words!

 

~Bregga

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